"Has Medicine Become a Flock of Super Chickens?"

[PB&Jam]

Found this article recently on Kevin MD (http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2016/11/medicine-become-flock-super-chickens.html). The site looks kinda sketchy, but as far as the article goes, what do you guys think? Is this a valid analogy to make (comparing high-stats students to "super chickens")? Have recent developments in medical education successfully slowed this trend (pass-fail curriculum, placing less weight on stats and more on ECs, etc.)? If the concerns in this article are valid, what can be improved upon in premedical/medical curricula/admissions?

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[Goro]

The author is only looking at stats. But 3.9 GPA automatons are a dime a dozen. That's why stats merely get you to the door, but ECs get you through the door.

Basically, med school admissions selects for people who can absorb huge amounts of info and are able to spit it back up on exams each Monday AM. But they're also, for the most part, altruistic, and idealistic.

Super chickens indeed.

Found this article recently on Kevin MD (http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2016/11/medicine-become-flock-super-chickens.html). The site looks kinda sketchy, but as far as the article goes, what do you guys think? Is this a valid analogy to make (comparing high-stats students to "super chickens")? Have recent developments in medical education successfully slowed this trend (pass-fail curriculum, placing less weight on stats and more on ECs, etc.)? If the concerns in this article are valid, what can be improved upon in premedical/medical curricula/admissions?

 

[PB&Jam]

The author is only looking at stats. But 3.9 GPA automatons are a dime a dozen. That's why stats merely get you to the door, but ECs get you through the door.

Basically, med school admissions selects for people who can absorb huge amounts of info and are able to spit it back up on exams each Monday AM. But they're also, for the most part, altruistic, and idealistic.

Super chickens indeed.

This is why I posted the article. It seemed like the author had no idea how med school admissions work, and thought all it takes to get acceptances galore was to have a high GPA and MCAT.

 

[Cotterpin]

I definitely don't feel like a super chicken.

 

[gyngyn]

There was more than a dozen 3.8+gpa, 36+ MCAT applicants on our waitlist with no acceptances last year.

 

[starspells]

There were dozens of 3.8+gpa, 36+ MCAT applicants on our waitlist with no acceptances last year.

Those numbers are good for every school in the country! They didn't get in bc of poor interview skills, IAs, bad essays, garbage ECs, bad list/strategy, etc. Those things are much easier to improve than GPA/MCAT.

 

[gyngyn]

Those numbers are good for every school in the country! They didn't get in bc of poor interview skills, IAs, bad essays, garbage ECs, bad list/strategy, etc. Those things are much easier to improve than GPA/MCAT.

We don't interview folks with most of those...

 

[starspells]

We don't interview folks with most of those...

Yeah what I'm saying is even if they did manage to get interviews they probably didn't get in because they were weird, rude, dressed inappropriately or had some other deficit in social skills.

 

[kb1900]

uh i just read the article and....wtf?

this writer is bad and should feel bad

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

uh i just read the article and....wtf?

this writer is bad and should feel bad

If only he kept those cold, metallic hands.

 

[MDProspect]

I don't understand what the author means by "better metrics". What's better than gpa, mcat, EC, background (SES, minority)? Having applicants jump through hoops of fire, and the ones that do not burn getting the interview?

 

[Mad Jack]

Found this article recently on Kevin MD (http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2016/11/medicine-become-flock-super-chickens.html). The site looks kinda sketchy, but as far as the article goes, what do you guys think? Is this a valid analogy to make (comparing high-stats students to "super chickens")? Have recent developments in medical education successfully slowed this trend (pass-fail curriculum, placing less weight on stats and more on ECs, etc.)? If the concerns in this article are valid, what can be improved upon in premedical/medical curricula/admissions?

KevinMD has been around forever. Used to be a pretty respectable site, though now it feels like a glorified Letters to the Editor section of a newspaper.

I think there are problems with the way medical students have been selected for decades- the whole medical school process has a tendency to weed out personalities that are more outspoken and assertive, while bringing in those that are more compliant and willing to do as they're told. You don't make it through all these hoops without basically jumping when you're told and doing what you're expected without question. That is where many of medicine's problems lie, IMO, as this has selected for a group of people that are followers first and reluctant leaders second, while weeding out the Elon Musk/Bill Gates types that can lead a company (or a field) to thriving through innovation and breaking the mold. Whatever though, that's just like, my opinion, man.

 

[Lawpy]

Found this article recently on Kevin MD (http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2016/11/medicine-become-flock-super-chickens.html). The site looks kinda sketchy, but as far as the article goes, what do you guys think? Is this a valid analogy to make (comparing high-stats students to "super chickens")? Have recent developments in medical education successfully slowed this trend (pass-fail curriculum, placing less weight on stats and more on ECs, etc.)? If the concerns in this article are valid, what can be improved upon in premedical/medical curricula/admissions?

Article in a nutshell:

>Writes 3 paragraphs of the super chicken analogy
>Makes a weak, unsupported claim that medical school admissions is based only on high stats ("I see it happen all too frequently" is terrible support)
>Concludes by vaguely calling for better metrics and not giving any concrete recommendations

So yeah, pretty useless and poorly written article.

 

[Cotterpin]

KevinMD has been around forever. Used to be a pretty respectable site, though now it feels like a glorified Letters to the Editor section of a newspaper.

I think there are problems with the way medical students have been selected for decades- the whole medical school process has a tendency to weed out personalities that are more outspoken and assertive, while bringing in those that are more compliant and willing to do as they're told. You don't make it through all these hoops without basically jumping when you're told and doing what you're expected without question. That is where many of medicine's problems lie, IMO, as this has selected for a group of people that are followers first and reluctant leaders second, while weeding out the Elon Musk/Bill Gates types that can lead a company (or a field) to thriving through innovation and breaking the mold. Whatever though, that's just like, my opinion, man.

Should the Elon Musk/Bill Gates types be in clinical jobs though, or should they be in research, biomedical engineering, public health, etc.?

 

[Mad Jack]

Should the Elon Musk/Bill Gates types be in clinical jobs though, or should they be in research, biomedical engineering, public health, etc.?

We could yse a few of them. A lack of people like that in the field is the reason we lose out to nurses, pharmaceutical companies, hospital administration, and basically everyone else. Other fields have a better mix of personality types, so emd up with people that have more solide entrepreneurial/business/bargaining/lobbying skills, while medicine largely ends up with a sheepish monoculture by the very nature of training and the hidden curriculum. Some people shake it off and become strong businessmen and leaders outside of the clinical environment, but they're the exception rather than the rule.

Physicians are more than just clinicians, or at least we should be. Back in the day, we were businessmen, teachers, researchers, clinicians, hospital leaders, etc, very often all at once. Specialization, ever longer residencies, and curriculums/admission requirements that require ever more stringent compliance have beaten the broader spirit out of medicine.

 

[liquidsodium]

Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[787593]

I don't understand what the author means by "better metrics". What's better than gpa, mcat, EC, background (SES, minority)? Having applicants jump through hoops of fire, and the ones that do not burn getting the interview?

Let's not throw away potentially great ideas so soon...

 

[Papa Oso]

Thanksgiving 2016 Fact of the day

According to Wikipedia: Super Chicken is a segment that ran on the animated television series George of the Jungle. It was produced by Jay Ward and Bill Scott, who earlier had created the Rocky and Bullwinkle cartoons. It debuted September 9, 1967 on ABC

.... The more you know.

 

[sullen-burger]

Thanks for keeping us grounded....

Thanksgiving 2016 Fact of the day

According to Wikipedia: Super Chicken is a segment that ran on the animated television series George of the Jungle. It was produced by Jay Ward and Bill Scott, who earlier had created the Rocky and Bullwinkle cartoons. It debuted September 9, 1967 on ABC

.... The more you know.

 

[Iz_FtB]

Good grades and high MCAT aren't synonymous with antisocial behaviour. How much more likely is someone with a 4.0 GPA to be an automaton than someone with a 3.0?

Had the good fortune to interact with some really bright people on the interview trail, and without exception they've been pleasant, sociable people.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

If only he those cold, metallic hands.

I don't understand what the author means by "better metrics". What's better than gpa, mcat, EC, background (SES, minority)? Having applicants jump through hoops of fire, and the ones that do not burn getting the interview?

Article in a nutshell:

>Writes 3 paragraphs of the super chicken analogy
>Makes a weak, unsupported claim that medical school admissions is based only on high stats ("I see it happen all too frequently" is terrible support)
>Concludes by vaguely calling for better metrics and not giving any concrete recommendations

So yeah, pretty useless and poorly written article.

Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Let's not throw away potentially great ideas so soon...

Thanksgiving 2016 Fact of the day

According to Wikipedia: Super Chicken is a segment that ran on the animated television series George of the Jungle. It was produced by Jay Ward and Bill Scott, who earlier had created the Rocky and Bullwinkle cartoons. It debuted September 9, 1967 on ABC

.... The more you know.

Thanks for keeping us grounded....

Posts like these give me hope in humanity and remind me why I like SDN so much. Carry on my friends, carry on.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Posts like these give me hope in humanity and remind me why I like SDN so much. Carry on my friends, carry on.

I just noticed the word "kept" got deleted by my phone in that post. Damn my stupid fingers!