Healthcare Bill -- YES or NO?
Started by roseglass6370
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What I'm saying is that out of the people that have chronic health conditions, a significant portion are uninsured. I never said they were deadbeats, in fact I was uninsured most my life & most people I know now are uninsured or can't afford insurance. I know its a problem, and many people genuinely can't help it.
It's ok to step out of your bubble...
It's safe also..Hard work does not mean affluence. At the places I worked at, the hardest workers were often the least paid - the cleaning crew, the lab dishwasher - and they were also exposed to the most hazards. There's many who work 2 or more fulltime jobs and still don't make enough to buy insurance or afford other things. Many small business simply do not offer health insurance so you can work like a dog and still can't get it.
Get off ur high-horse, be less judgmental and venture into the real world a little bit.
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If it covers liposuction I'm for getting lipo. Maybe it covers botox too? I've always wanted botox.
exactly!
Right, I have a wishlist.
Lipo in other areas, plus fat injection in my lips and butt. Then face-lift, complete hair removal, and LASIK.
I need a rhinoplasty as well.
Naww, I just want one. I also want varicose vein removal, even though I don't have them.
I am curious where you are reading this? I had heard this and so I read the section of the bill dealing with residency and post graduate education and I didn't find anything about choosing residencies for people. Do you have a source for this? I'm not attacking you or saying you're wrong, I'm just curious where you're getting this and where in the bill this can be found.
I need a dermatologist to freeze those warts and moles off my body with that liquid nitrogen thing, and I want Uncle Sam to pay for it.
I'm not balding, but when I do, I want free hair transplant surgery.
almost a filibuster proof supermajority up in here
Its people like you that lose the most if this bill passes. It seriously shafts hard working responsible people who want nothing more than what they are willing to work for. Think about it, the harder you work, the MORE you will pay for those that don't. That's messed up! If my diabetes, obesity, alcoholism, etc. is paid for, what, if any incentive is there for me to stop? We already reinforce this crap enough with our current system, lets not make it worse.
It's ok to step out of your bubble...
Hard work does not mean affluence. At the places I worked at, the hardest workers were often the least paid - the cleaning crew, the lab dishwasher - and they were also exposed to the most hazards. There's many who work 2 or more fulltime jobs and still don't make enough to buy insurance or afford other things. Many small business simply do not offer health insurance so you can work like a dog and still can't get it.
Get off ur high-horse, be less judgmental and venture into the real world a little bit.
Stop with the ego masturbation already.. Do you want a cookie or a gold star? Ur personal story is irrelevant to this.
See what you said, bolded above, millions of people work extremely hard but are not fortunate enough to work for a company that provides health insurance. Many small firms simply can't afford to provide it. Ur $78 biweekly deduction is a heavily subsidized (~90%) employer provided benefit. U are shielded from the true cost of health insurance, try unsubsidized Cobra or a comparable product on the private market.
It's naive and fallacious to just think if everyone worked hard enough they can afford everything. So stick ur story up ur a** and stop judging people.
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And this is why any real reform bill would include ending the tax breaks that make it so much cheaper to get health care insurance through your employer. We don't buy any other insurance through them. It's illogical.
Dude ur taxes are based on your income what are u b****ing about. From ur prior post u make >$200, what's ur issue?
If Warren Buffett showed you his tax bill, u may pass out bcos it's in the millions, but the point is, as a fraction of his income, he pays less taxes than his secretary.. Are you looking for pity or wat?
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Well we all can't work for Microsoft (legendary health benefits), there simply ain't enough companies, who provide health insurance, to hire everyone.
FYI I don't care about ur personal circumstances, i'm interested in the big picture.
The point is small firms employ millions of people and can't/won't provide health insurance. So hard work has nothing to do with access to health insurance, period.
I wonder if it's possible to do a Tag-Team Filibuster?
I NOW look at it like this. If you support this bill, you're accepting you'll be taxed more, and you're ok with that. So why not let those people that support it pay more in taxes, and those that don't...don't. Say you pay the same regardless...there's just less total taxes being paid in for it.
If you're so wonderfully altruistic, and you're already making peace with paying the taxes...why not?
Of course, the system falls back apart when people realize there's a tax break for not supporting it...and then don't support it.
People that support this bill...do you already make some sort of regular donation to help others get health care? Do you get together in groups and pay off medical expenses for others?
I mean, you don't just freely give your OWN money. But if the government will sign on to take more of yours AND mine, let's play ball? No thanks.
If you're so wonderfully altruistic, and you're already making peace with paying the taxes...why not?
Of course, the system falls back apart when people realize there's a tax break for not supporting it...and then don't support it.
People that support this bill...do you already make some sort of regular donation to help others get health care? Do you get together in groups and pay off medical expenses for others?
I mean, you don't just freely give your OWN money. But if the government will sign on to take more of yours AND mine, let's play ball? No thanks.
He doesn't make anywhere close to $200k in wages if that's a biweekly check's tax.The federal witholding listed was consistent with about $1390 semi-monthly gross and the medicare and social security was double what a normal employee would pay at that wage rate, which fits with him being self employed, since we have to pay double the amount in taxes that the rest of you pay on those two programs. The gross annual income then is about $33,000 on those numbers.
You also magically convinced a bunch of pre-meds to instantly give up their medical school ambitions. On the spot.
Are you also dating a pair of blonde 18-year-old twins?
He dates blonde 18-year old TRIPLETS. Get it right. This man is a baller.
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According to him, he DOES:
"I'm smart enough to find the right employer to work for. I don't just apply for any random job posting. Most people take whatever job they can get. Most of those companies can't afford to provide health insurance.
I run two small private businesses on my own and I pay self-employed taxes. I'm already almost at the $250k a year level. Another 30k a year and I will really get hit hard with taxes because of this damn bill. So I need to expand my businesses to make even more money just to make the same I do today tomorrow"
You know why we don't provide insurance to people like we used to? Because of the government rules and mandates making it unbearable. Personally I dropped coverage for everyone once I had to indefinately front money on everyone under COBRA over the last two years, for what looks like eternity now and they made it harder and harder to eliminate them, despite not paying for the coverage. So once the chance came up and I talked to the current employees, that weren't dead weight we had to fire, we dropped the entire plan, gave raises to people that earned their job and dumped all the people that were milking us on COBRA.
It's an absolute certainty that I won't offer coverage with the garbage going through the congress right now until it's completely settled and I see where things really sit. So the number of uninsured has gone up due to government action. I have a feeling my company is very similar to many others that are probably doing the same.
Oh, you're also wrong about hard work. The people that work hard still work for me and get paid well, they can afford to buy insurance if they feel it's needed. The people that don't work hard got fired and are demanding the money be stolen from others to buy it for them. I suppose if I had a unionized company I'd have to keep the lazy people and fire the hard workers killing the desire for anyone to work hard. Wasn't the Soviet Union a labor union to begin with? See how well that worked out for them? Did you like the bread line? heh
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How large is ur firm (employee-wise)??
I guess we'll see a nice bump in unemployment claims in November. What job prospects are available for ex-congressmen?
No. It's a wealth transfer from our generation to our parents'. Look at the age and health rating bands (hint: one doesn't exist and one exists at one thirtieth what would be actuarially fair)
Our parents have already screwed our generation enough. We'll pay enough for them never having saved a dime in their life. We'll pay for the beemers, porches, Rolexes, and vacation/"investment" condos in Florida they couldn't afford. Hell, we already are. Look at the economy. Look at who's unemployed. It's the 20-35 set. I had Princeton and Harvard grads working for me as secretaries.
So... no. I don't want to transfer any more wealth up the chain.
Our parents have already screwed our generation enough. We'll pay enough for them never having saved a dime in their life. We'll pay for the beemers, porches, Rolexes, and vacation/"investment" condos in Florida they couldn't afford. Hell, we already are. Look at the economy. Look at who's unemployed. It's the 20-35 set. I had Princeton and Harvard grads working for me as secretaries.
So... no. I don't want to transfer any more wealth up the chain.
Pre-med with a pre-existing condition, here. Insurance would be 300-400 dollars a month for me on a 1400 a month income. Because I work on-call, Im not covered through a company plan. When I was underemployed, I had county insurance (kinda like medicaid) and was unable to get a doctors appointment...doctors every where were booked for 6 months, after which they stopped scheduling appts. Primary care was non-existent.
I was recently accepted to medical school, so health insurance will not be a problem in the immediate future (G-d willing), but I'll never forget these experiences from the mere 6 months during which I was underinsured.
Most people who vote NO have never experienced what this is like. They are worried about a decrease in their salaries while over 40,000 people die as a result of lack of insurance every year
I was recently accepted to medical school, so health insurance will not be a problem in the immediate future (G-d willing), but I'll never forget these experiences from the mere 6 months during which I was underinsured.
Most people who vote NO have never experienced what this is like. They are worried about a decrease in their salaries while over 40,000 people die as a result of lack of insurance every year
Unfortunately there's no going back, as a country we a AGING. Senior benefits will only increase lest they are reformed. Seniors are the most electorally active demographic that's why they get the best of everything. It's simple if u don't vote, u don't matter....
I think some of them seriously felt they were on a mission for God, and decided to pay the cost. Some people care more about legacy than longevity of work, and obviously they felt this was going to be a huge legacy boost.
When history remembers this as an epic failure, I hope they still feel it was worth it.
Cosigned
And if you ran an insurance company it would be bankrupted. You can't make large scale policies based upon individual's emotional pleas.
Also, a friendly reminder to all those accepted next year and are against the bills. Do not fall for the Free Netter's stuff from AMSA and the AMA and stick to your guns. Do not feed these associations money that is used to hurt the profession.
Emotional plea aside (I'm pre-existing as well, but I've always carried insurance through 4 schools 4 jobs -- it's doable), you had government subsidized/run/influenced insurance and couldn't get an appointment for 6 months so you didn't like it...
...now you want everyone to have government subsidized/run/influenced insurance?
huh?
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lolwut? Are you ******ed? Quite making stupid and ridiculous exaggerations.
How certain are you that you know what Medicaid is?
Me?, are you asking me?
Your referencing Mark Levin, and your a democrat????? I don't know if he is a credible source. Why don't you try NPR, or the Economist, at least they try to give it straight. I am all for intelligent, genuine discussion, but a few people (FoxNews, Mark Levine, Rush L, Palin) are making fallacious, and disingenuous arguments that are meant to enrage. If anyone that actually pays for their own health care is surprised that this bill is here I am really surprised. Health care costs are skyrocketing, health insurance companies are acting like a**es, and there is a large group of people out there that can't afford to go to the Dr. I don't know why people bring up socialists, and Canadians.....has it been so long since English 102 when they went over ad-hominem, the scare-crow fallacy, and red-herrings? They are playing on the fear of the masses. If health care is not a right then why do we give it to the elderly? I am sure doctors could make lots more money if they take away medicare. I mean that is the responsibility of charities, and family right? 🙁 And if they can't afford care then they just get along with it "and decrease the surplus population." -Ebenezer Schrooge
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