MD Heard a rumor that Step 1 (and maybe Step 2 CK) may change from scores to P/F. Is that true?

[ricksimmonsrafowens]

If you think that was an ad hominem then I suggest you grow an epidermis.

sorry my wellness lectures told me to stay in touch with my vulnerable self

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[Med Ed]

I agree with this. I'll say that everyone I know that is uses FA as a primary learning source doesn't do well in class and they don't do well on boards either. I'm curious, what would schools teach differently if Step 1 were P/F? Like what are you actually expecting students to learn differently?

I don't think content would change if Step 1 went P/F. I would hope that such a change would encourage students to spend more readying themselves for clerkships than for a 280 item MCQ exam. Spending 2 years cramming minutiae makes little sense in a world with smart phones.

Somewhere much earlier I mentioned that changing the nature of Step 1 to a more CARS-like exam might alleviate some of this tension. But that would be a huge undertaking, and I'm not sure the NBME has the stomach to try.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

If this actually happens...will the basic science GPAs matter more when going through clinical years and the match process? How about the schools that are currently on a p/f system?

 

[Med Ed]

did you have teachers better than or on par with Ryan, Goljian, or Sattar when you were in school?

Yes. The first course was biochemistry and the first two professors were unreal. They did 80% of the course. Then came a guy who really sucked eggs. After that I had great instruction in physiology (some systems, at least), pathology, GI, histology, and neurology. Pharmacology and microbiology were both bad, but that may reflect the nature of the content more than the instructors. Everything else was mixed.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I would hope that such a change would encourage students to spend more readying themselves for clerkships than for a 280 item MCQ exam.

And what precisely do you think students should be doing to better prepare themselves? I mean, I can already decently present a patient, write a passable SOAP note, and reason through a differential with an attending. We do these things with attendings still in clinical practice. I'm not sure what more we should be doing outside of actually rotating at our hospital.

Perhaps the suggestion you are looking for is a standardized 18 month pre-clinical so everyone get's an extra 6 months of "introductory clerkship" experience that is a broad overview of the different services, basic skills, or something like that before starting the true core rotations of 3rd year. I could get behind that kind of change as I don't think 2 whole years are fully necessary to learn pre-clinical information.

 

[afib123]

I am surprised some of these admins that are so against step 1 are still using MCAT scores and undergraduate GPA when taking students into their medical schools. I am couple years from medical school admission process but to my knowledge undergraduate GPA and MCAT score are still the most important factors in undergraduate students applying to medical school.
Seems to me this argument is more about keeping pre-clinical years relevant and stay in business when the student is studying on their own using outside resources for fraction of the cost.

 

[afib123]

And what precisely do you think students should be doing to better prepare themselves? I mean, I can already decently present a patient, write a passable SOAP note, and reason through a differential with an attending. We do these things with attendings still in clinical practice. I'm not sure what more we should be doing outside of actually rotating at our hospital.

Perhaps the suggestion you are looking for is a standardized 18 month pre-clinical so everyone get's an extra 6 months of "introductory clerkship" experience that is a broad overview of the different services, basic skills, or something like that before starting the true core rotations of 3rd year. I could get behind that kind of change as I don't think 2 whole years are fully necessary to learn pre-clinical information.

This system of rigorous 2 year of pre-clinicals with 2 year clinical has been producing sound physicians (although healthcare in America is expensive, pretty widely noted around the world that America has the best physicians). Sure, if so desired, add in an afternoon every week rotating with preceptors but that shouldn't really interfere with step 1 prep. There is no need to make step 1 pass or fail to give students more clinical exposure in the first 2 years.

As a third year student finishing up clinical and pretty much getting all honors, nothing could have prepared me more for third year than studying hard for Step 1 and having a sound foundation of medical knowledge.

 

[afib123]

I don't think content would change if Step 1 went P/F. I would hope that such a change would encourage students to spend more readying themselves for clerkships than for a 280 item MCQ exam. Spending 2 years cramming minutiae makes little sense in a world with smart phones.

Somewhere much earlier I mentioned that changing the nature of Step 1 to a more CARS-like exam might alleviate some of this tension. But that would be a huge undertaking, and I'm not sure the NBME has the stomach to try.

Have you taken a step 1 test recently? From your description of step 1, which you seem to equate to 2 years of cramming minutiae, is far from what the test is. Majority of the test is application of clinical knowledge. There are very few questions that you can answer with pure memorization. The students that cram minutiae without understanding how to apply that information and reason through clinical vignettes are the ones that get the low scores.

 

[afib123]

Reading this thread made me realize how out of touch some administrators are with the needs of the current medical student.
I mean I think it'll be the same if I become a medical school admin after I am attending which will be at least 10 years since I finish medical school. I will have no idea what the new generation medical students need or want.
Either admin need to spend more time with students or residents need to be more involved with medical student to know exactly what current medical students need.
No wonder costs of medical school keeps going up but not the quality of medical education. I have yet to see some admin talk about reducing the costs of the first 2 years since none of the students are coming to the lectures anyway.

 

[anon6134]

I don't think content would change if Step 1 went P/F. I would hope that such a change would encourage students to spend more readying themselves for clerkships than for a 280 item MCQ exam. Spending 2 years cramming minutiae makes little sense in a world with smart phones.

Somewhere much earlier I mentioned that changing the nature of Step 1 to a more CARS-like exam might alleviate some of this tension. But that would be a huge undertaking, and I'm not sure the NBME has the stomach to try.

As a graduating fourth year I will guarantee all that a P/F Step will do is cause literally every student to slack just as P/F preclinical courses has done. Why would I give up weddings, holidays, family vacations, weekend getaways with friends, etc if my P/F Step score meant ****. I got a 230 practice exam in March of second year and then spent the next 2 months straight studying 7 days/week 8-12 hours a day to differentiate myself. I learned more than any human being could ever dream of during those two months. P/F step I could have gone drinking for two straight months instead prior to showing up for clinicals. This is exactly what will happen.

With the blatant disregard for school proliferation and potential Pass/Fail board exams, we are one step away from being nurses. But hey, the dumbing down of America is taking place in every other setting, no need to hold medical students to a higher standard either. Just missed the boat on the preclinical party and I'm a little bitter about it I suppose.

 

[Lawpy]

I have watched/listened to/read all of them*, thank you very much.

*B&B, Pathoma, Goljan, First Aid, UWorld, and many others.

No, just an acknowledgement of reality. If there isn't a single educator at your school that can match Dr. Ryan then you are justified in your disappointment.

Well the good news is your school is better than many schools including top schools if you have great faculty who teach better than the widely used resources. That's especially valuable for clinical years.

 

[afib123]

As a graduating fourth year I will guarantee all that a P/F Step will do is cause literally every student to slack just as P/F preclinical courses has done. Why would I give up weddings, holidays, family vacations, weekend getaways with friends, etc if my P/F Step score meant ****. I got a 230 practice exam in March of second year and then spent the next 2 months straight studying 7 days/week 8-12 hours a day to differentiate myself. I learned more than any human being could ever dream of during those two months. P/F step I could have gone drinking for two straight months instead prior to showing up for clinicals. This is exactly what will happen.

With the blatant disregard for school proliferation and potential Pass/Fail board exams, we are one step away from being nurses. But hey, the dumbing down of America is taking place in every other setting, no need to hold medical students to a higher standard either. Just missed the boat on the preclinical party and I'm a little bitter about it I suppose.

Very true. The only thing that differentiates a clinical PA student from a third year medical student is step 1 which requires rigorous amount of studying and dedication.
But I will say I don't think making step 1 p/f has to do anything with making pre-clinicals more stress free, it seems to be about medical schools wanting their pre-clinical lectures to still be relevant.

 

[anon6134]

Very true. The only thing that differentiates a clinical PA student from a third year medical student is step 1 which requires rigorous amount of studying and dedication.
But I will say I don't think making step 1 p/f has to do anything with making pre-clinicals more stress free, it's about medical schools wanting their pre-clinical lectures to be relevant.

The hilarious thing is that over just the last two years, there has been a visible overcrowding of medical students at my hospital and starting this year, PA students have taken over formerly med student rotation spots. So we are going to lower the standards of our board exams, let more students in, and then crowd ourselves out of clinical education. I can not fathom a more brilliant idea

Maybe we should come up with a $1300 Pass/fail clinical exam and force everyone to take it to ensure they are all humanistic enough while we're at it. Oh wait

 

[afib123]

The hilarious thing is that over just the last two years, there has been a visible overcrowding of medical students at my hospital and starting this year, PA students have taken over formerly med student rotation spots. So we are going to lower the standards of our board exams, let more students in, and then crowd ourselves out of clinical education. I can not fathom a more brilliant idea

Wait for the argument that making step 1 p/f isn't going to lower the quality of clinical education.

 

[afib123]

The hilarious thing is that over just the last two years, there has been a visible overcrowding of medical students at my hospital and starting this year, PA students have taken over formerly med student rotation spots. So we are going to lower the standards of our board exams, let more students in, and then crowd ourselves out of clinical education. I can not fathom a more brilliant idea

Maybe we should come up with a $1300 Pass/fail clinical exam and force everyone to take it to ensure they are all humanistic enough while we're at it. Oh wait

If these admins want to go after something, they can start with Step 2 CS but surprisingly I only hear medical students complain about that exam. Maybe because it's irrelevant to the med school admins since it doesn't affect their curriculum.

 

[anon6134]

If these admins want to go after something, they can start with Step 2 CS but surprisingly I only hear medical students complain about that exam. Maybe because it's irrelevant to the med school admins since it doesn't affect their curriculum.

Probably because no one who's made it to medical admin ever had to actually take it. I do know for a fact that our dean protests the exam each year, obviously to no avail.

 

[Ho0v-man]

And what precisely do you think students should be doing to better prepare themselves? I mean, I can already decently present a patient, write a passable SOAP note, and reason through a differential with an attending. We do these things with attendings still in clinical practice. I'm not sure what more we should be doing outside of actually rotating at our hospital.

Perhaps the suggestion you are looking for is a standardized 18 month pre-clinical so everyone get's an extra 6 months of "introductory clerkship" experience that is a broad overview of the different services, basic skills, or something like that before starting the true core rotations of 3rd year. I could get behind that kind of change as I don't think 2 whole years are fully necessary to learn pre-clinical information.

I literally suggested your second paragraph this week. I’d love to have just 1.5 years for the actual part of pre-clinical learning that matters. Then just 6 months of labs about soap notes, physical exam practicals, procedural skills, etc. This stuff does have utility, but we all just blow it off to study. Because for whatever reason they do a suture lab > a year out from rotations and act like that wasn’t a waste of time.

It would be awesome to show up to third year knowing how to place central lines, thoracentesis, fast exam, etc but I have to ignore my schools attempt to teach this stuff because it sadly hurts my education the way it’s currently set up.

Also, welcome back.

 

[Med Ed]

Have you taken a step 1 test recently? From your description of step 1, which you seem to equate to 2 years of cramming minutiae, is far from what the test is.

I know that. I am describing what many students spend 2 years doing.

 

[Med Ed]

As a graduating fourth year I will guarantee all that a P/F Step will do is cause literally every student to slack just as P/F preclinical courses has done. Why would I give up weddings, holidays, family vacations, weekend getaways with friends, etc if my P/F Step score meant ****. I got a 230 practice exam in March of second year and then spent the next 2 months straight studying 7 days/week 8-12 hours a day to differentiate myself. I learned more than any human being could ever dream of during those two months. P/F step I could have gone drinking for two straight months instead prior to showing up for clinicals. This is exactly what will happen.

I think it's more likely to revert back to 15+ years ago, when Step 1 was important but not all-consuming, and students spent their time before dedicated focused on their classes. The notion that medical students just started working hard a few years ago is untrue.

 

[Med Ed]

Probably because no one who's made it to medical admin ever had to actually take it.

Took it. Would eliminate it if I had the power.

I do know for a fact that our dean protests the exam each year, obviously to no avail.

Convincing the NBME to give up a source of revenue is only slightly more difficult than escaping a black hole.

 

[anon6134]

I think it's more likely to revert back to 15+ years ago, when Step 1 was important but not all-consuming, and students spent their time before dedicated focused on their classes. The notion that medical students just started working hard a few years ago is untrue.

With the number of schools popping up and the extreme variability of education between them, I just don't see how thats possible. Many schools are doing P/F preclinical, I just don't understand how one is going to have the motivational pressure to excel when all they have to do is barely pass for two straight years to head into clinical years and suddenly stratify among 40,000 other M3's for the first time ever. I could not have studied as hard as I did for step if there wasn't going to be a score at the end. It's just not humanly possible and you can not replicate that pressure.

I say all of this as someone who matched EM with my SLOEs and no one gave a single F about my Step scores. Pass/Fail Step is going to make for a generation of lazy medical students and I don't see any way around that.

I guess I'm just confused as to what is being accomplished by changing this

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

This system of rigorous 2 year of pre-clinicals with 2 year clinical has been producing sound physicians (although healthcare in America is expensive, pretty widely noted around the world that America has the best physicians). Sure, if so desired, add in an afternoon every week rotating with preceptors but that shouldn't really interfere with step 1 prep. There is no need to make step 1 pass or fail to give students more clinical exposure in the first 2 years

That's my point. If they want students to be "better preparing for clerkships" then they should cut the 24 months down to 18 (lots of schools do this already and haven't missed a beat) and keep Step 1 the way it is. Then you can have a 6 month period where they teach us all the basic clinical stuff they want us to know before core rotations and have us actually engaged and paying attention learning those things.

I literally suggested your second paragraph this week. I’d love to have just 1.5 years for the actual part of pre-clinical learning that matters. Then just 6 months of labs about soap notes, physical exam practicals, procedural skills, etc. This stuff does have utility, but we all just blow it off to study. Because for whatever reason they do a suture lab > a year out from rotations and act like that wasn’t a waste of time.

It would be awesome to show up to third year knowing how to place central lines, thoracentesis, fast exam, etc but I have to ignore my schools attempt to teach this stuff because it sadly hurts my education the way it’s currently set up.

Also, welcome back.

Exactly. The best is when we get chastised for not remembering how to do it when, not only was it over a year ago, it wasn't really taught well the first time.

 

[Goro]

That's my point. If they want students to be "better preparing for clerkships" then they should cut the 24 months down to 18 (lots of schools do this already and haven't missed a beat) and keep Step 1 the way it is. Then you can have a 6 month period where they teach us all the basic clinical stuff they want us to know before core rotations and have us actually engaged and paying attention learning those things.


Exactly. The best is when we get chastised for not remembering how to do it when, not only was it over a year ago, it wasn't really taught well the first time.

Good to see you back, Grey!

 

[Med Ed]

Anyone who thinks that they will be helped by Step 1 going P/F, or that stress levels and "student wellness" will somehow improve, is deluding themselves unless they go to an elite school. All this will do is put greater emphasis on bogus metrics that mean nothing like research output, school prestige, and connections (ie school prestige again). Step 2 will now be filled with the mania of the current Step 1, without the ability to change your application strategy because Step 2 is taken right before you apply. What happens if you are a neurosurgery diehard all the way though medical school and then lay an egg on Step 2 only weeks before applying?

What do you think about the hot new trend of schools putting Step 1 after M3?

That's my point. If they want students to be "better preparing for clerkships" then they should cut the 24 months down to 18 (lots of schools do this already and haven't missed a beat) and keep Step 1 the way it is. Then you can have a 6 month period where they teach us all the basic clinical stuff they want us to know before core rotations and have us actually engaged and paying attention learning those things.

One of the major benefits of an 18 month pre-clinical is that it gets students into electives/aways in early spring. Doing an 18+6 and then clerkships would negate this benefit.

I could see 12 of nothing but basic science, 2 of dedicated, and 6 of practical skills/other, but this would be highly dependent on the nature of the student body.

Also, didn't realize you were gone, but it is nice to see you back!

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

What do you think about the hot new trend of schools putting Step 1 after M3?

I answered this above.

 

[afib123]

What do you think about the hot new trend of schools putting Step 1 after M3?

The hot new trend exists because Step 1 is so clinically relevant that some schools think taking it after the clinical year is helping their students. I see the logic in it but I think it's stupid because 3rd year is supposed to be when you are focused on your patients. Shelf exams already dilute that. Add in a step 1 and step 2, everyone's going to focus on those or go crazy trying to balance both.

First 2 years are meant to buckle down and give it to your best in learning medical knowledge and taking step 1 at the end of that 2 years. 3rd year is meant for patients, shelf exams and step 2.

There is absolutely no reason to mess up a perfectly working system. The only argument I see here is Step 1 and outside resources are making medical school lecturers redundant which is the way it should be. Make the first 2 year didactics online with outside resources, only come in for clinical sessions whether it's with standardized patients, working with a preceptor or something else. Reduce the cost of first 2 years.

If medical school admins so want to see Step 1 pass or fail, start with your undergraduate students, disregard their MCAT scores and undergraduate GPA, admit them through whatever metrics you want other than GPA and MCAT scores and tell us how they are doing.

 

[Lawpy]

I wish med school admins, NBME and other interest groups focus on getting rid of Step 2 CS rather than wasting time and complicating matters by converting Step 1 into pass/fail

 

[IsWhat]

When can we expect these changes (if they happen at all)?

 

[deleted888443]

When can we expect these changes (if they happen at all)?

Home | United States Medical Licensing Examination

www.usmle.org

According to their current timeline, whatever changes they make, will start towards the end of 2020

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Home | United States Medical Licensing Examination

www.usmle.org

According to their current timeline, whatever changes they make, will start towards the end of 2020

Ya and those would be the short term changes. I doubt it will go full P/F in the short term. They may recommend that as a long term goal but there is a lot that would have to be changed for the test to go P/F without having monumental consequences for multiple parties. I doubt it will happen so quickly.

 

[olabrador23]

Answer is yes.

Why? It will take the stress off of preclinical years.

It means that two different candidates will now be viewed either through the prism of Step 2, and/or the other humanistic stuff that PDs used to do before Step 1 mania made it the exam a screening tool:

• Auditions
• LORs
• research
• clinical grades/evals
• networking

BTW, there is no evidence that I know of that shows that Step I scores correlate to being a good doctor. The only thing it correlates to is the Medical Knowledge competency, which is but one of six required competencies for med students and residents. The other five are humanistic domains.

See in particular the wise Med Ed's comments in this thread:
Questions about the USMLE

great information! Thanks!

How would this be affecting the Caribbean medical grads applying for residencies in the US in your opinion?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

great information! Thanks!

How would this be affecting the Caribbean medical grads applying for residencies in the US in your opinion?

It would mean they are royally screwed even more than they are now. This current climate is the absolute worst time to be entering a Caribbean school.

 

[olabrador23]

It would mean they are royally screwed even more than they are now. This current climate is the absolute worst time to be entering a Caribbean school.

OMG... I was considering the idea of going the Caribbean MD route as I read about how they got in residencies with great Step scores. Now they would probably have no chance if this idea got implemented!

If this became true, then the people who are in the Caribbean med schools now would be in a very bad shape. Given how rich some of the Caribbean med schools/businesses are, do you think they might step in and lobby to prevent this ideas from happening?

Also, would lower-tiered US med schools and their students and maybe PD's voice their concerns and/or oppose this idea as it would go against their interests?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Also, would lower-tiered US med schools and their students and maybe PD's voice their concerns and/or oppose this idea as it would go against their interests?

Read the thread and see for yourself.

 

[olabrador23]

But you have the freedom to order more tests for additional information. There are countless times where I would want to get slightly more info on question stems to rule something out. It’s a big difference

I am not a med student or medical doctor. But I would like to ask if you know how much it would cost the patients if a doctor just orders more tests or indiscriminately to rule things out?

Due to my experience of having taking care of many sick family members, I have seen so many doctors who, in my humble opinion, ordered many tests than necessary. From a patient's perspective, I believe that a good, knowledgeable, and competent doctor would be able to use his medical knowledge and clinical skills to accurately diagnose and not heavily rely on tests.

I have seen a cardiac stress test costing ~2-3K. Once, believe it or not, I received a bill from a hospital for ~20K for a CAT scan... (came to hospital to ask why and they told me that they sent the bill to my insurance and did not get pay.... turned out they sent to the wrong place, which I quickly provided them with the correct info again... I had no idea how much they charged my insurance at the end...) With those kinds of costs, it is very expensive for your co-pays, even when you do not have to pay the full costs. In the big picture, this practice just does its parts in helping jacking up the healthcare costs for the patients and society.

 

[Chibucks15]

I am not a med student or medical doctor. But I would like to ask if you know how much it would cost the patients if a doctor just order more tests or indiscriminately to rule out things out?

Due to my experience of having taking care of many sick family members, I have seen so many doctors who, in my humble opinions, ordered many tests. From a patient's perpective, I believe that a good, knowledgeable, and competent doctor would be able to use his medical knowledge and clinical skills to accurately diagnose and not heavily relying on tests.

I have seen a cardiac stress test costing ~2-3K. Once, believe it or not, I received a bill from a hospital for ~20K for a CAT scan... (came to hospital to ask why and they told me that they sent the bill to my insurance and did not get pay.... turned out they sent to the wrong place, which I quickly provided them with the correct info again... I had no idea how much they charged my insurance...) With those kinds of costs, it is very expensive for your co-pays, even when you do not have to pay the full costs. In the big picture, this practice just does its parts in helping jacking up the healthcare costs for the patients and society.

Are you blaming doctors for high healthcare costs? Cmon now
I'm sorry for you having to take care of your family and I hope everything is okay, but it isn't doctors fault that everything costs so much. That's more of an issue with the insurance company and the healthcare system as a whole. Myself, and many other doctors and future doctors, will not hesitate to make sure of the diagnosis if the test makes sense, because otherwise you miss something and somebody gets hurt. You rely on the tests because they tell you what's there. Otherwise its just guessing

 

[olabrador23]

Are you blaming doctors for high healthcare costs? Cmon now
I'm sorry for you having to take care of your family and I hope everything is okay, but it isn't doctors fault that everything costs so much. That's more of an issue with the insurance company and the healthcare system as a whole. Myself, and many other doctors and future doctors, will not hesitate to make sure of the diagnosis if the test makes sense, because otherwise you miss something and somebody gets hurt. You rely on the tests because they tell you what's there. Otherwise its just guessing

I understand the purpose of a test.

But I think you miss my point: an epxerienced doctor would not need to order a lot of tests while a not so experienced one would in order to diagnose. Ordering many tests because the doctor is inexperienced has a very serious/real cost for the patients and system/society, which it seems to me that doctors seem to often forget about. The high cost of healthcare is already bad enough currently that the doctors should not contribute more to it by being more knowledgeable, experienced, or competent.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

But I think you miss my point: an epxerienced doctor would not need to order a lot of tests while a not so experienced one would in order to diagnose. Ordering many tests because the doctor is inexperienced has a very serious/real cost for the patients and system/society, which it seems to me that doctors seem to often forget about. The high cost of healthcare is already bad enough currently that the doctors should not contribute more to it by being more knowledgeable, experienced, or competent.

And I think you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[ricksimmonsrafowens]

an epxerienced doctor would not need to order a lot of tests while a not so experienced one would in order to diagnose.

this statement (and your post) is very false. Most physicians (and all physicians I've worked with) order tests as is appropriate to the patient presentation and the clinical gestalt. also this isn't the appropriate thread to discuss health care costs. please let this thread die lol.

 

[olabrador23]

this statement (and your post) is very false. Most physicians (and all physicians I've worked with) order tests as is appropriate to the patient presentation and the clinical gestalt. also this isn't the appropriate thread to discuss health care costs. please let this thread die lol.

from your statement, I assume that the physicians you know and work with are the same doctors in my experience?

Besides, I am not saying that all doctors are ordering tests unnecessary.

oh well... (sigh)

 

[anon6134]

Welcome to clinical medicine premeds

 

[ricksimmonsrafowens]

from your statement, I assume that the physicians you know and work with are the same doctors in my experience?

Besides, I am not saying that all doctors are ordering tests unnecessary.

oh well... (sigh)

what does this have to do with making Step 1 Pass/Fail?

 

[deleted938090]

People from low and mid tier schools should see scores step 1 as a good thing for them. Otherwise some kiddo from a higher ranked school with all P/F and perhaps even P/F rotations will look better on paper from the halo effect. Honestly the only people that benefit from this are those already at top institutions with tons of connections in their preferred specialty.
Your time would be honestly be better spent learning how to bake cookies for your superiors than studying for step if this were to happen.

 

[7331poas]

People from low and mid tier schools should see scores step 1 as a good thing for them. Otherwise some kiddo from a higher ranked school with all P/F and perhaps even P/F rotations will look better on paper from the halo effect. Honestly the only people that benefit from this are those already at top institutions with tons of connections in their preferred specialty.
Your time would be honestly be better spent learning how to bake cookies for your superiors than studying for step if this were to happen.

Exactly true. If Step 1 became P/F then it is a death sentence for any medical student not in the top 20 who is applying to competitive specialties.

Real question, should I try and take Step 1 this december instead of January of 2021? Is there any chance they make it P/F by then?

 

[olabrador23]

what does this have to do with making Step 1 Pass/Fail?

maybe i am ignorant still, but I think making Step 1 P/F might have something to do with that... obviously you do not think so... will continue to learn more...

(sorry to post here again as it seems that I should not as you requested ... but can't help myself just to answer your question to my post... sorry)

 

[ricksimmonsrafowens]

maybe i am ignorant still, but I think making Step 1 P/F might have something to do with that... obviously you do not think so... will continue to learn more...

(sorry to post here again as it seems that I should not as you requested ... but can't help myself just to answer your question to my post... sorry)

I'm really curious how you arrived to the conclusion making Step 1 P/F will contribute to either an increase in health care costs or physicians ordering "unnecessary" tests. Can you explain what your your thinking is behind that?

 

[olabrador23]

I'm really curious how you arrived to the conclusion making Step 1 P/F will contribute to either an increase in health care costs or physicians ordering "unnecessary" tests. Can you explain what your your thinking is behind that?

obviously I might not know what I am talking about as many here have pointed out. I would like to hear and learn more from you instead as for why not. Thanks.

 

[olabrador23]

Indeed. We’re taught early on if you don’t do as well on Step 1 that you’re not good enough and viewed as a lesser good to basically everyone. Hell, a clerkship director said at my school if you got less than a 220 you would struggle to match into ANYTHING.

Basically, underperformers on Step 1 shouldn’t be made to feel like they’ll be lesser doctors or that they’re stupid. Thet shouldn’t be made to feel like they’ll match into anything but spots nobody else wants. This is what upset me the most about all of this.

Step 1 going P/F wouldn’t make anything more fair. Especially for DOs and people at “lesser” MDs like myself

I am really interested in seeing what doctors and medical students from Caribbean med schools say about this....

 

[ciestar]

I am really interested in seeing what doctors and medical students from Caribbean med schools say about this....

Even better reason to not go Carib

 

[ciestar]

obviously I might not know what I am talking about as many here have pointed out. I would like to hear and learn more from you instead as for why not. Thanks.

Uhhh.. what do you think Step 1 even tests you on? You’re so off base