MD Heard a rumor that Step 1 (and maybe Step 2 CK) may change from scores to P/F. Is that true?

[Ho0v-man]

Man, guess I should’ve scored in the 240s. That way I could be superior to people with lower scores bc of my quantifiable smartitude but also be superior to people with higher scores because I’d be more likable and have common sense. This must be so obvious to people between 240-250 because they’re obviously very intelligent without being rain man level dysfunctional.

Whatever makes y’all feel good.

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[7331poas]

No one is saying it’s ALL of them, just a decent percentage. And it’s much larger than 5% if we being honest. No one really in our class discussed their Steps except for the person that got the highest, and everyone knew who failed because they got pulled off of rotation. You and your fiends that scored high may think you’re not bad, but I rotated with a lot of students that knew all the “pimp questions” were annoying.

Don't mad because they are smarter and know more than you

 

[deleted957830]

Man, guess I should’ve scored in the 240s. That way I could be superior to people with lower scores bc of my quantifiable smartitude but also be superior to people with higher scores because I’d be more likable and have common sense. This must be so obvious to people between 240-250 because they’re obviously very intelligent without being rain man level dysfunctional.

Whatever makes y’all feel good.

I wouldn’t take your board score to have your degree. Works both ways. There are many ways to s*** in people and play the elitist card. Everyone has a weakness.

 

[deleted957830]

Don't mad because they are smarter and know more than you

One exam on one day quantifies intelligence? That belief is the antithesis of intelligence.

 

[Ho0v-man]

I wouldn’t take your board score to have your degree. Works both ways. There are many ways to s*** in people and play the elitist card. Everyone has a weakness.

Yeah but the usmd vs DO vs IMG issue isn’t related to the thread. I’ll admit my degree doesn’t have the same advantages as yours. I’m sure there’s some way you’re also superior to the top 20 MD students who outperformed me. Again, whatever makes you feel better.

Not trying to be elitist. Just saying that the idea that people who memorize more information than others should be generalized as clinically incompetent is ridiculous. It’s about as laughable as the DO/Carib students who make similar generalizations about MD students.

 

[Select All That Apply]

@tulip81 It is like you metastasized from the Pass/Fail Step 1 thread and are attempting to get this one closed as well. Honestly props, getting two major threads closed while avoiding the ban hammer on a burner account is impressive.

 

[redsox93]

Someone at my school scored >265 and literally gets chewed out on every rotation. Not ASD, just a cocky, arrogant human being. Can't talk to patients, present, or show one ounce of kindness. An attending we both worked with, when said student wasn't around, made an off-the-cuff remark of: "This is why there has been an inverse correlation between step scores and performance in our resident pool".

The bar to library ratio definitely has some merit. Not saying this is the rule by any means, but there are people who are well rounded (i.e. not great step scores but good at everything; personable!) who absolutely kick-ass in the hospital.

It doesn't matter how smart you are if people can't stand you enough to listen to the words coming out of your mouth or if people can't understand you because you can't come down to a common level.

Why would an attending know their step score? does this person just go around bragging about it haha

 

[7331poas]

One exam on one day quantifies intelligence? That belief is the antithesis of intelligence.

On the contrary, if the person is consistently "answering all the pimp questions" then they are clearly smarter and more knowledgeable.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

On the contrary, if the person is consistently "answering all the pimp questions" then they are clearly smarter and more knowledgeable.

In a direct recall way, sure. I’ve seen people who could remember so much information but we’re totally average when it came to critical thinking. Knowing a lot of facts just means you have a good memory. I’m not sure that necessarily equates to being smarter.

 

[deleted978973]

So instead of being tested on worthless PhD minutiae they decided choosing which of 5 quotes is the most correct is a better option. I should've done computer science....

 

[CidHighwind]

On the contrary, if the person is consistently "answering all the pimp questions" then they are clearly smarter and more knowledgeable.

No, if you’re the type of person that answers each and every question that the attending asks if asked to other students or, heaven forbid, other residents, you’re seen as a “know-it-all” gunner and no one likes you. Stop doing that. Don’t try to rationalize it, it’s annoying behavior and will get you disliked. It’s okay if they just ask them to you. But if they “ask the group” and you answer every question without letting anyone else shine, you’re a jerk

 

[Ho0v-man]

No, if you’re the type of person that answers each and every question that the attending asks if asked to other students or, heaven forbid, other residents, you’re seen as a “know-it-all” gunner and no one likes you. Stop doing that. Don’t try to rationalize it, it’s annoying behavior and will get you disliked. It’s okay if they just ask them to you. But if they “ask the group” and you answer every question without letting anyone else shine, you’re a jerk

This is true. Even if they are just asking them to you, they’re really just trying to teach you something and it’s rude to never give them the chance. My personal rule is if I get 3 in a row right, miss the next one on purpose. It’s just good manners.

 

[7331poas]

No, if you’re the type of person that answers each and every question that the attending asks if asked to other students or, heaven forbid, other residents, you’re seen as a “know-it-all” gunner and no one likes you. Stop doing that. Don’t try to rationalize it, it’s annoying behavior and will get you disliked. It’s okay if they just ask them to you. But if they “ask the group” and you answer every question without letting anyone else shine, you’re a jerk

That's moving the goal post. Obviously if the questions are directed towards someone else that is different.

 

[CidHighwind]

That's moving the goal post. Obviously if the questions are directed towards someone else that is different.

The point is that having situational awareness and not being on the spectrum is more important for clinical success than just being “knowledgeable”.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

The point is that having situational awareness and not being on the spectrum is more important for clinical success than just being “knowledgeable”.

And it’s a fallacy to believe that the majority of high scorers don’t possess those...

I don’t even get the point of this argument.

 

[Lawpy]

And it’s a fallacy to believe that the majority of high scorers don’t possess those...

I don’t even get the point of this argument.

I still have no idea why people on SDN use that tired argument tbh. The idea that high scores = socially inept is baseless and insulting yet this is pervasive across the forums.

 

[ciestar]

I still have no idea why people on SDN use that tired argument tbh. The idea that high scores = socially inept is baseless and insulting yet this is pervasive across the forums.

Ive also seen enough of low scores = incompetent.

It all gets old.

 

[7331poas]

The point is that having situational awareness and not being on the spectrum is more important for clinical success than just being “knowledgeable”.

Okay. And being a "normal" student who cannot answer simple pimp questions is not "clinical success".

 

[Chibucks15]

On here if you don't have a 235+ and several publications you're in danger of not matching and considered pretty incompetent by the high and might on here. Who gives a damn about what % of pimp questions you get in the grand scheme of things. I mean don't get em all wrong but just because you miss some doesnt make you less of a damn doctor. Its old as hell on here

 

[CyrusHabs7695]

this reminds me of the MD vs DO threads in the pre-med forum. I might go back over there for old times sake

 

[CidHighwind]

And it’s a fallacy to believe that the majority of high scorers don’t possess those...

I don’t even get the point of this argument.

No one is saying “Everyone that gets really high scores is socially inept”. ALL, I repeat, ALL people are saying is that if you’re socially inept, being really smart won’t be enough to save you. I figured that was obvious but I guess not.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

No one is saying “Everyone that gets really high scores is socially inept”. ALL, I repeat, ALL people are saying is that if you’re socially inept, being really smart won’t be enough to save you. I figured that was obvious but I guess not.

I mean you literally wrote:

No one is saying it’s ALL of them, just a decent percentage. And it’s much larger than 5% if we being honest. No one really in our class discussed their Steps except for the person that got the highest, and everyone knew who failed because they got pulled off of rotation. You and your fiends that scored high may think you’re not bad, but I rotated with a lot of students that knew all the “pimp questions” were annoying.

So no that’s not all you’re saying. And I guess technically you didn’t say all, but you did say a decent percentage, which is still ridiculous.

 

[CidHighwind]

I mean you literally wrote:


So no that’s not all you’re saying. And I guess technically you didn’t say all, but you did say a decent percentage, which is still ridiculous.

So we just pretending socially awkward and annoying students don’t exist now? I’m doing rads interviews now, and at every interview I’ve been at there’s been at least one if not more awkward/loud people. Now admittedly radiology isn’t known for having people with the best “soft skills”, but you need to stop pretending as if everyone is some charismatic social butterfly

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

So we just pretending socially awkward and annoying students don’t exist now? I’m doing rads interviews now, and at every interview I’ve been at there’s been at least one if not more awkward/loud people. Now admittedly radiology isn’t known for having people with the best “soft skills”, but you need to stop pretending as if everyone is some charismatic social butterfly

You might get more out of this if you stopped using logical fallacies in every one of your arguments.

 

[Lawpy]

Ive also seen enough of low scores = incompetent.

It all gets old.

On here if you don't have a 235+ and several publications you're in danger of not matching and considered pretty incompetent by the high and might on here. Who gives a damn about what % of pimp questions you get in the grand scheme of things. I mean don't get em all wrong but just because you miss some doesnt make you less of a damn doctor. Its old as hell on here

The sad thing is, the weird Step 1 wars going on in SDN basically justify converting Step 1 to pass/fail. I don't even think quartiles would fix much if people are going to argue that highest quartile = socially inept and barely passing = incompetent.

I don't see similar arguments happening over Step 2 or clinical grades. It's just Step 1.

 

[ciestar]

The sad thing is, the weird Step 1 wars going on in SDN basically justify converting Step 1 to pass/fail. I don't even think quartiles would fix much if people are going to argue that highest quartile = socially inept and barely passing = incompetent.

I don't see similar arguments happening over Step 2 or clinical grades. It's just Step 1.

Simply because of the emphasis placed on step 1.

 

[Lawpy]

Simply because of the emphasis placed on step 1.

Yep but it's gotten out of control lately. I think people should keep in mind that everyone has different career goals and some people don't have a reason to gun hard on Step 1. It would be good if there's a way to stop this really absurd Step 1 mania that doesn't involve emphasizing more on school name/prestige.

 

[chlorocruorin]

What if a professor said I don’t have enough time to grade your final papers. I’m just going to look at the first sentence instead and grade? What if people in favor kept saying, why should that professor change...she’ll just look at the second sentence instead, or the emphasis will be placed on the title, just keep it the same.

Bottom line is that PDs know that they are stratfiying applicants on a standard WE ALL know doesn’t really mean much and yet they are still doing it. Omg poor PD who can’t look at apps when it’s part of their job.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

So we just pretending socially awkward and annoying students don’t exist now?

Bro. You literally said that a decent chunk of high scorers are socially awkward. Stop moving the goalposts. You made a dumb statement and are wrong. Own it.

What if a professor said I don’t have enough time to grade your final papers. I’m just going to look at the first sentence instead and grade? What if people in favor kept saying, why should that professor change...she’ll just look at the second sentence instead, or the emphasis will be placed on the title, just keep it the same.

Bottom line is that PDs know that they are stratfiying applicants on a standard WE ALL know doesn’t really mean much and yet they are still doing it. Omg poor PD who can’t look at apps when it’s part of their job.

Not even kind of similar but ok.

 

[CidHighwind]

Bro. You literally said that a decent chunk of high scorers are socially awkward. Stop moving the goalposts. You made a dumb statement and are wrong. Own it.


Not even kind of similar but ok.

Fine. There’s no evidence to show correlation between social skills and step scores. Should have just kept it general in that a there are just some awkward students period. I feel like some of you guys are taking my comments personally, didn’t mean for it to come off that way.

 

[Chibucks15]

Fine. There’s no evidence to show correlation between social skills and step scores. Should have just kept it general in that a there are just some awkward students period. I feel like some of you guys are taking my comments personally, didn’t mean for it to come off that way.

If we're being honest we're all super weird for choosing medicine anyway

 

[CidHighwind]

If we're being honest we're all super weird for choosing medicine anyway

Won’t argue too much. But now that I’m almost done with school, IDK what else I would be doing right now. Weird huh?

 

[ciestar]

Won’t argue too much. But now that I’m almost done with school, IDK what else I would be doing right now. Weird huh?

My feelings exactly lol
Ive been asked what id do if i couldnt do medicine and i still wonder if id enjoy the answer i gave

 

[Chibucks15]

My feelings exactly lol
Ive been asked what id do if i couldnt do medicine and i still wonder if id enjoy the answer i gave

eh id go live in a cubicle somewhere and hate life. Thats the fun part of this whole journey...so much time and effort has pushed everything else out of the way in our brains haha were robots now

 

[ace_inhibitor111]

Yep but it's gotten out of control lately. I think people should keep in mind that everyone has different career goals and some people don't have a reason to gun hard on Step 1. It would be good if there's a way to stop this really absurd Step 1 mania that doesn't involve emphasizing more on school name/prestige.

Step 1 is NOT the problem. I have to repeat myself. The problem is increased competition due to a ton more medical students entering the match. I don’t care if you completely remove ALL the steps, students will still be stressed out and graded on criteria that don’t matter in their future career. Why does a good dermatology or ortho applicant need to have AOA and honors in pediatrics, OB/GYN, neurology, psychiatry, etc? It makes no sense. Why do psychiatry and OB/GYN, two previously uncompetitive specialties, now have match rates in the 80% range? Is it Step 1’s fault? Hell no lol.

 

[chlorocruorin]

Step 1 is NOT the problem. I have to repeat myself. The problem is increased competition due to a ton more medical students entering the match. I don’t care if you completely remove ALL the steps, students will still be stressed out and graded on criteria that don’t matter in their future career. Why does a good dermatology or ortho applicant need to have AOA and honors in pediatrics, OB/GYN, neurology, psychiatry, etc? It makes no sense. Why do psychiatry and OB/GYN, two previously uncompetitive specialties, now have match rates in the 80% range? Is it Step 1’s fault? Hell no lol.

Its because lazy PDs are u using it in a way it was never meant to be used in order to make their jobs easier

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Its because lazy PDs are u using it in a way it was never meant to be used in order to make their jobs easier

Incredibly simplistic characterization....

 

[Detective SnowBucket]

So I've looked at other threads on this topic and reddit and google and none of them explicitly say that the change was passed, so is this actually happening?

 

[Grimjow]

So I've looked at other threads on this topic and reddit and google and none of them explicitly say that the change was passed, so is this actually happening?

On the website it says announcements will be made in winter.

 

[lessupsetSHstudent]

Its because lazy PDs are u using it in a way it was never meant to be used in order to make their jobs easier

Yes, super lazy of them to not look through 2000 applications extremely thoroughly...

I don't think it is perfect, but at least the metric reflects hard work/medical knowledge to some degree. Better than many alternatives, and I don't know what would be better to be honest. At least it gives students from less prestigious schools a chance to shine.

 

[Lawpy]

So I've looked at other threads on this topic and reddit and google and none of them explicitly say that the change was passed, so is this actually happening?

On the website it says announcements will be made in winter.

Yeah those are critical. The arguments don't matter because they're just based on personal biases and preferences.

 

[radsisrad]

This is true. Even if they are just asking them to you, they’re really just trying to teach you something and it’s rude to never give them the chance. My personal rule is if I get 3 in a row right, miss the next one on purpose. It’s just good manners.

Is this poster joking or indirectly gunning?

Please, med students: don't follow this "example."

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Is this poster joking or indirectly gunning?

Please, med students: don't follow this "example."

100% sarcasm

 

[Goro]

I still have no idea why people on SDN use that tired argument tbh. The idea that high scores = socially inept is baseless and insulting yet this is pervasive across the forums.

What I'm seeing more is the pernicious mindset that "high test scores validate my self worth and humanity. Low test scores mean you are not worthy."

 

[Lawpy]

What I'm seeing more is the pernicious mindset that "high test scores validate my self worth and humanity. Low test scores mean you are not worthy."

Yeah and that mindset is stupid and contributes to the absurd Step 1 mania in the first place! I don't see posts and arguments flexing over clinical grades and Step 2! It's just Step 1 = all, everything else in med school be damned.

 

[Goro]

Yeah and that mindset is stupid and contributes to the absurd Step 1 mania in the first place! I don't see posts and arguments flexing over clinical grades and Step 2! It's just Step 1 = all, everything else in med school be damned.

You see it in pre-med forums for the MCAT. Same people, just two-three years older.

 

[Lawpy]

You see it in pre-med forums for the MCAT. Same people, just two-three years older.

At least the GPA is still highly respected which is why preallo is addicted high LizzyM scores. Preallo is also addicted to Walter-level ECs and prestige as well.

But here in med student forums, it's basically everything based on Step 1, with some minor posts about AOA and research. Step 1 rules all. And a med student's goal ends right at Step 1 and nothing else.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Is this poster joking or indirectly gunning?

Please, med students: don't follow this "example."

Obviously I know the answer to every pimp question. After all, I did well on step 1 so why wouldn’t I? Joking is outside my range of capabilities as I’m merely a high scoring robot.

 

[chlorocruorin]

Yes, super lazy of them to not look through 2000 applications extremely thoroughly...

I don't think it is perfect, but at least the metric reflects hard work/medical knowledge to some degree. Better than many alternatives, and I don't know what would be better to be honest. At least it gives students from less prestigious schools a chance to shine.

They know there is no data backing your statement though. That’s all gibberish. Only data out there is that standardized test scores are lower no matter where or when for minorities. So to some degree do minorities work less hard / have less medical knowledge than whites or ORM? It’s the fact that PDs KNOW this but they don’t care. Standardized exams have been used in the past to limit diversity. Texas was notorious and got caught. EVERYBODY KNOWS there is an extreme lack of diversity in healthcare and suicide rates are the highest it’s ever been yet nobody wants to talk about the elephant in the room lol it’s like gun reform everyone wants to be safe and think shook shooters are bad but guns?? Nope not the problem

 

[chlorocruorin]

Any before the weird posters reply and say “why bring race involved” it’s actually relevant in looking at the entire scope. Not everything is a race war