How would you compare Wash U, UW Seattle, and Colorado. I will likely pursue a subspecialty after residency, but was wondering what others thought about these programs including reputation, location, and quality of training. Thanks!
Help Comparing Wash U, UW, and Colorado
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I interviewed at Wash U and absolutely loved it....
1) They have a firm system similiar to Hopkins. From day 1 you are assigned to 1 of 3 firms that you will be with for three years. You will be in the same part of the hospital with the same ancillary personnel, get the same patients so you know their stories well, follow-up in OP clinic, etc. I do not think you have the same attending the entire time like Hopkins though.
2) The schedule. I think the q8 overnight but taking call every fourth night is a great balance or being rigorous while allowing you sleep and time to read about your patients.
3) The hosptial. Barnes Jewish is a massive hospital that serves as a local hospital for a diverse St. Louis population while being the referral center for a 200 mile radius.
4) The fellowship list. They match everywhere. There is no geographic pigeon-holing like some other schools have. (all great places in their own respect). They match people into Northeast, West coast, south, etc.
5) You won't be just a patient pusher. You have lots of elective time to explore what you want to do. You can also get three months for research if you want. They want you to be a good academic physician. They also have formal course work for learning how to teach during your SAR.
6) Research - the Med Mentors and C-star seemed to be the most organized program for research of any school I interviewed at. They are serious about having the time for scholarship and learning how to do it right. Along with career development.
7) The strength of specialities. Barnes has strong departments across the board so no matter what you want to do you will be able to find it there.
8) Cost of living in St. Louis is amazing. I think the west side of St. Louis (Clayon, Brentwood, Univ City) are great places to buy a house. Close to everything but safe, afforable, neighborhood feeling, lots of little town centers, parks, etc.
9) Resident happiness. Everyone echoed this fact as evidenced by the ridiculous turnout for night before dinner.
10) I think Wash U is the best program not on the coasts - my opinion.
Same tier as Duke (although better out of house match)
11) Ability to moonlight. Since you are q8 and Barnes has a large non teaching service their are ample moonlighting opps where you are handsomely paid. I like the idea of going there and saving some money up for an East Coast fellowship so that I am not dead broke living in Boston.
12) Lots of newly renovated facilities. Not sure but I the one weak part was the resident clinic but I thought they said they were opening a new one next yr?
13) Lots of perks like parking, free food at all conferences, money for research.
14) Magnet hospital
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12: A new one is slated to open on the northeast corner of Forest Park and Euclid (just north of the current campus) in Fall 2011 or Spring 2012; as of now, it's just a big hole in the ground with construction noises that prevent mid-day fourth year nap time!
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Here are my biased (I ranked it 5th, assuming, prior to interview that it would be #1 or 2) and potentially outdated (in 2006) thoughts on the program.
Good:
- Big, 3 hospital program. The holy grail of Uni, County and VA...you won't find better/more diverse pathology. Tons of potential clinical and research mentors in just about every area of clinical medicine and basic science.
- Well-reputed program with national name recognition. It's not a "write your own ticket" program but anyone who matters has heard of it.
- Great training in Pulm/CC, GI, Heme Malignancies/BMT, "Pick-an-organ" Transplant, Primary Care, etc.
Bad:
- Huge program. Something like 75-80 interns (cat + prelim).
- Spread over 3 campuses which are spread all over a city that is a nightmare to get around in most of the time.
- Minimal to nonexistent resident camaraderie. This was something I experienced during my interview and have since heard from fellowship colleagues and others who were residents there. It's a huge class, ~1/4 of which leaves after intern year. Another 1/3 of the remaining group then heads off to Boise for a year. The remainder of your class will be spread over 3 hospitals your 2nd year. If there was ever a residency program begging for a "firm"-type system, this is it (and I hated the programs where the firm system was in place). I have heard that senior residents didn't know half of their classmates.
I'll admit that I was hugely disappointed by UW when I interviewed there (both for residency and fellowship) and that my view is biased by that. I will also admit that it is a well-respected program with lots of good learning and fellowship opportunities and that, if you fit in there, you will not go wrong. But it wasn't for me.
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The firm system (or similar resident structure) is all-but needed in the large academic hospitals with 120+ PGY 1 through 3 IM residents (I completed residency on the Hopkins Osler Service).
The above being said, U. of Washington is unique in that they are the "state" school for five states and have a more complicated resident program than that of a similar institution.
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Wow, I am glad I read this. I am a 2nd year at UW. Your review would probably have been spot on in 2006 (before our new PD overhauled the program and when we were on probation). Some of the stuff you say is still very valid, but most of it is not. I will do best to throw in my most biased 2 cents.
"Good:
- Big, 3 hospital program. The holy grail of Uni, County and VA...you won't find better/more diverse pathology. Tons of potential clinical and research mentors in just about every area of clinical medicine and basic science.
- Well-reputed program with national name recognition. It's not a "write your own ticket" program but anyone who matters has heard of it.
- Great training in Pulm/CC, GI, Heme Malignancies/BMT, "Pick-an-organ" Transplant, Primary Care, etc."
All very good and true points. We still have all of these things in addition to some new improvements like better salary, a 5% matching retirement plan, scheduled holiday time off, interest-specific program tracks (HIV primary care, hospitalist, subspecialty, global health) that are meant to provide guidance in what electives one should take, more effort to create scholarly work during residency, etc. etc. Much has changed since Ken Steinberg took over.
"Bad:
- Huge program. Something like 75-80 interns (cat + prelim)."
We have 65 with Cat+prelim+boise+Primary Care
"- Spread over 3 campuses which are spread all over a city that is a nightmare to get around in most of the time."
Still very true. We are re-imbursed for parking, but it still costs some money. There is also a shuttle that runs M-F that is free and goes between HMC and the U Hospital.
"- Minimal to nonexistent resident camaraderie. This was something I experienced during my interview and have since heard from fellowship colleagues and others who were residents there. It's a huge class, ~1/4 of which leaves after intern year. Another 1/3 of the remaining group then heads off to Boise for a year. The remainder of your class will be spread over 3 hospitals your 2nd year. If there was ever a residency program begging for a "firm"-type system, this is it (and I hated the programs where the firm system was in place). I have heard that senior residents didn't know half of their classmates."
With all do respect, this is just not true. Probably was in 2006, but we are a very tight-knit group and I definitely know everyone in my class, and am in fact still close with the prelims who are now anesthesia, neurology, derm, etc. We socialize on a regular basis and the large group means that there is inevitably someone who shares your interest and has the same day off to enjoy a funfilled day of hiking/skiing/boating. We are also very close to most of the attendings, calling them by their first name and seeing them outside the hospital. Of course, with a larger group you have to be outgoing and send some emails or make some phonecalls to get something together.
I love it here at UW. There are downsides, but we are trying to polish the program. We have a large area and group of people to take care of. We work very hard but I feel are very well trained. I would never compare us to other programs because I don't feel that is fair as I have never been in another program and firmly believe that any large University based program will give you very good training. Like the previous poster stated, if you fit in there, you can't go wrong. PM me if you have any more questions, and good luck with the match!!
"Good:
- Big, 3 hospital program. The holy grail of Uni, County and VA...you won't find better/more diverse pathology. Tons of potential clinical and research mentors in just about every area of clinical medicine and basic science.
- Well-reputed program with national name recognition. It's not a "write your own ticket" program but anyone who matters has heard of it.
- Great training in Pulm/CC, GI, Heme Malignancies/BMT, "Pick-an-organ" Transplant, Primary Care, etc."
All very good and true points. We still have all of these things in addition to some new improvements like better salary, a 5% matching retirement plan, scheduled holiday time off, interest-specific program tracks (HIV primary care, hospitalist, subspecialty, global health) that are meant to provide guidance in what electives one should take, more effort to create scholarly work during residency, etc. etc. Much has changed since Ken Steinberg took over.
"Bad:
- Huge program. Something like 75-80 interns (cat + prelim)."
We have 65 with Cat+prelim+boise+Primary Care
"- Spread over 3 campuses which are spread all over a city that is a nightmare to get around in most of the time."
Still very true. We are re-imbursed for parking, but it still costs some money. There is also a shuttle that runs M-F that is free and goes between HMC and the U Hospital.
"- Minimal to nonexistent resident camaraderie. This was something I experienced during my interview and have since heard from fellowship colleagues and others who were residents there. It's a huge class, ~1/4 of which leaves after intern year. Another 1/3 of the remaining group then heads off to Boise for a year. The remainder of your class will be spread over 3 hospitals your 2nd year. If there was ever a residency program begging for a "firm"-type system, this is it (and I hated the programs where the firm system was in place). I have heard that senior residents didn't know half of their classmates."
With all do respect, this is just not true. Probably was in 2006, but we are a very tight-knit group and I definitely know everyone in my class, and am in fact still close with the prelims who are now anesthesia, neurology, derm, etc. We socialize on a regular basis and the large group means that there is inevitably someone who shares your interest and has the same day off to enjoy a funfilled day of hiking/skiing/boating. We are also very close to most of the attendings, calling them by their first name and seeing them outside the hospital. Of course, with a larger group you have to be outgoing and send some emails or make some phonecalls to get something together.
I love it here at UW. There are downsides, but we are trying to polish the program. We have a large area and group of people to take care of. We work very hard but I feel are very well trained. I would never compare us to other programs because I don't feel that is fair as I have never been in another program and firmly believe that any large University based program will give you very good training. Like the previous poster stated, if you fit in there, you can't go wrong. PM me if you have any more questions, and good luck with the match!!
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Spot on. It's #2 on my ROL (and I was assured I wouldn't go beyond that), and it's not #1 only because of fiancee location reasons; that being said, I couldn't bring myself to put anything else ahead of it, because I was spoiled to spend the last two clinical years here and have high expectations of programs that I only felt were matched here and one other place.
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Hey Keg, it seems Wash U students really love the program and many stay for residency. Why do you think the program doesn't have many residents from the coasts? There seems to be a very strong midwestern pull, lots of people from UTSW and other Texas programs, as well as from Chicago programs and other good midwest programs.
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I think it's the simple fact that St. Louis is seen as fly-over country and not as cosmopolitan as offerings in the Northeast or on the Pacific Coast. While it certainly isn't New York or LA with regards to opportunities for entertainment, it's a very livable city; convincing people of that has been hard.
