Help for Premeds and Med Students Fearing the Unknown(clinical rotations)

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Doctor101

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It seems the one thing on every prospective doctor's mind is what the different rotations are going to be like.

I think a great idea for a thread is for those who finish a rotation explain in non-vague terms or biases, an hour by hour(or list) description of what you did in one day[preferably a call day].

Hopefully, at the end, we will have a detailed description of each rotation, rather than simply highlights, for all students to understand exactly what is going on in each of the rotations, though understandably will vary slightly depending on school.

I thank in advance all those who participate.

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While I think this could be helpful...it's so school dependent that anything that gives much insight isn't going to be transferable to other places. On some of my rotations (like OB/GYN) the schedule varied week to week (the 2 weeks of Labor and Delivery had very different hours than the 1 week of GYN Onc, which was different than the week of GYN Surg which was entirely more work than the 2 weeks of outpatient clinic). Further, a lot of places have multiple teaching sites which results in even greater diversity of experience (L&D at the University Hospital was very different than L&D at the community hospital.

People would be much better served by talking to the upper classmen at their own school.
 
Hey Doctor101,
I completely understand your anxiety but I have to agree with BigRed. Everything is school dependant and much of the time it is even rotation dependant. I remember last year (MSII year) being confused at the vague description the 3rd years would give me of the experience (ie. you have clinic, you're on the floor, what the hell does that actually mean!?) The other problem is that variation happens a lot of the time within the clerkship depending on what your assigned. I can give you a general outline of what my surgery experience was like though since I can remember it the most clearly. This is going to be long since I will cover many basic terms so bear with me:

5:15-6:30AM (or whenver you see your resident) - See the patient in the morning that you operated on the day before, these are your "assigned patients" You write a note in the chart about what the complaints are and what you want to do, your basic SOAP note format. Most hospitals have floors that a service will dominate, for example surgery is the second floor here, so when I was on the floor, it usually meant seeing patients on the second floor.

7:00 - Rounded on patients on most services. This means you go from patient room to room as a team, you will brieftly present your patient when you come to them (she had this, no problems last night, blah blah blah), and then our chiefs read our notes with our plans and corrected us accordingly, sometimes more then others:laugh: Nice helpful residence would kindly add to your presentation so that the chiefs had no questions by the end.

Thursdays @7 - Morbidity and Mortality and Grand rounds: M&M is where patient complications are discussed to all the residents and attendings, presented by the resident in charge of that patient. Grand Rounds is usually a lecture by a faculty member to the whole surgery dept. on a topic. These have breakfast usually (!!) and you get to see some interesting discussions

1-2 times/week clinic: Depends on when your service (trauma, general, ortho, CT, etc.) has clinic. These are usually 15-20 minute visits where you see patients who are preparing to have surgery, or have recently had surgery. Just making sure they are ok for post-op visits. pre-op is usually a bit more extensive.

3-4 times/ week, afternoon "Cores" - These are pseudolectures for the medstudents that SUCK (high pressure). I don't know if other schools have things like these but they atleast probably have lectures. Ours were "student led discussions" where we have a case booklet, we were suppose to prepare for for multiple cases for the topic of the day, and they proceded to go around the room and drill us, then grade us on our responses. This was attending dependant, some went around the room while others just lectured and didn't do the cases all together.

Random time: We were paired with a mentor where ~6 of us would all meet up and talk with an attending about random topics, this was suppose to be your go to person if you had any problems, they were usually all very student friendly.

All the times inbetween the students would decide amongst themselves who was going to cover what surgery cases for the day. when you weren't in surgery you were either waiting for surgery to begin and studying, or helping out your favorite resident on the floor manage patients.

At my school, we are assigned (after request) to 4 different subspecialty services (again, CT, ortho, vascular, etc) for 1 week. It was required that we rotate atleast 1 week on trauma, and 2 weeks on general. Our total clerkship time is 10 weeks.

Allright sorry for the book but hopefully that gives you an idea of what 1 students experience is like. In total I was usually at the hospital from 5:00,5:30 - 5 or 6. Longer while I was on CT, shorter on some other services.

Again highly school and clerkship dependant. if 10 people posted something like this, it would probably be drastically different. Making 3rd year more uniform is where I believe most schools could improve but thats another topic entirely. Hope it helps!
 
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I'm a 4th year, a cynic. Ask me again in 2 weeks and I might be so happy I'll give you a completely different view.

7AM = start. My resident is late for morning sign-out. Good start.

7:30-9 = preround. I'm writing notes on my patients. I don't mind taking on more but even 4th year students are capped at 4 patients.

9-10:30 = head down to the lounge to surf the web as I wait for my team to finish. They run around frantically as our attending is a renowned h@rd@$$

10:30-11 = the attending is late for rounds. As usual

11-12:30 = rounds. Attending somehow finds a way to belittle 4th year students. And residents. And nurses. And the poor respiratory tech who dared to be in the same room as us.

12:30-2 = finish up the work that was instructed from rounds. The attending is a jerk but at the very least, he gives a very clear plan of attack on each patient.

2-4 = lunch, web surfing, hide in lounge to catch some winks

4 = waiting for attending again for afternoon rounds (he's compulsive about making sure all the items discussed in morning rounds are completed in time by afternoon rounds)

4:30 = still waiting

4:30 - 5:30 = 1st admission of the day arrives (I am on call so that means I am free to take admissions from the ER). If we're talking about a non-call day, afternoon rounds usually last from 4-6 (if the attending isn't late, which he always is). Occasionally, we strike gold and leave at 5:30. There's been one instance of a 5PM departure. Drastically different from my 3rd year medicine clerkship.

5:30 - 6 = discussed with resident and attending, orders are written, I'm ready to roll out the door for a relatively benign day of call (we are required to stay until 8pm or the 1st admission)

6 - 7 = attending decides to admit a new patient for insurance reasons. (i.e. she has no insurance and would not qualify for outpatient testing.) There's some personal connection there. I'm scutted out to complete the 2nd admission. I've had 4th year buddies decline work but I still haven't found the gall to do this even as a senior.

7 - 8 = waiting for my resident to sign off on the admission and orders while he attends to the rest of the hospital like a headless chicken. I go over everything again just to be sure, because, while my resident is fantastic, the attending eats people alive. Whole.

8 - 9 = another 4th year med student joins me. Apparently all the teams are capped and my resident is now responsible for shifting the overflow. Somehow. Somewhere.

9PM = FINALLY! everything is signed off, day ends, I drive home, ready to begin this whole mess again at 7am

Not the cushy 4th year rotation I was expecting. And if Match Day goes right, hopefully I only have to endure 1 year of this misery. (obviously, this is a medicine rotation that I am on)
 
5:45 - Show up, wait for the rest of the team, round. We don't need to preround here, so we basically walk through all of the floors, see each patient, get their vitals and write a note. Usually the med students get the vitals and change the dressing while the resident talks to the patient and writes the note.

7:15-7:30 - Breakfast.

7:30-~1800, occasionally 2000 or later - OR. In between cases, sometimes go to the floor to see a patient or do a post-op check on some other patient, grab some lunch, etc.

After OR, pm rounds. These are quicker and are generally done in half an hour. We usually leave around 1900-1930.

This is on plastics surgery. General surgery is the same, except OR is generally done at 1630ish, and every 3rd day we take call until 10pm on which we don't really do much, unless an ER consult comes in.
 
This is from a few years ago, but surgery OR days

4:30-6 preround
6-7 round
7-7:15 (if rounds didn't run over) second breakfast (first breakfast before coming in)
7:15 OR time. Patient arrives in OR, wait for anesthesia to intubate. Place foley, shave, prep. Scrub in, retract. And retract. And retract. And answer questions about the relation of the liver to the IVC and right atrium and the mechanism of action of DDAVP. Case ends. Hopefully got to close some skin. Clean patient, place bandages, take down drapes. Write brief op note in chart, get co-signed by resident (who is entering orders). Transport patient. 30 minutes or so later another case starts. Same deal.

Anywhere between 7 and 11 p.m., all cases done -- time for 'evening rounds'. Run around real quick, get numbers, write down labs, check in on patients. Sit down with chief and go through patients and what happened during the day. Evening plans generated.

For about an hour after that -- help the intern with the stuff you can actually help someone with.

Then GO HOME!!! sleep. Wake up and repeat.
-----
Surgery clinic days

4:30-6 preround
6-7 round
7-7:15 (if rounds didn't run over) second breakfast (first breakfast before coming in)
7:30-8:30 help the intern with floor work
8:30-6 clinic. See a patient, write a note, present to the chief resident or attending (depending on the clinic), see the patient with the chief or attending, get everything together for the patient (e.g., scripts, scheduling tests/procedures). Next patient. Keep going until done.
6 pm evening rounds
An hour after evening rounds over, help the interns tuck everyone in. The GO HOME!!!

And some days you have scheduled lectures, in which case you bow out of your clinical duties to go.

I guess one of the things I was confused about as a preclinical student was what exactly medical students did, i.e., what was meant by "clinical duties", so here are examples: Mrs. Jones hemoglobin dropped -- do a rectal and guaic; there's an admission in the ED -- do an H&P, get her med list by calling the three Rite Aids nearest the intersection she said she went to, draw blood for labs, call your resident and tell him about it; write Mrs. Johnson's prescriptions so your resident can just sign them and put them in her chart; walk with Mr. Smith to see if he desats when walking; call Mr. Wilk's primary care doctor to give him an update; call a cardiology consult for Mr. Kim's nonsustained VT [and get an earful for a 'dump consult'... then get asked 'are you a medical student? Yeah, let me talk to your resident.']. Beg CT to take your patient RIGHT NOW for her scan. Write discharge paperwork for Ms. Lee. In the OR, close skin.

As you advance, you do progressively more complicated things -- pull chest tubes and JPs, place NG tubes, etc.

Best,
Anka
 
I think the point's becoming clear about variation, but to further demonstrate...

My general surgery month was at a community hospital and the Dept of Surgery made an effort to put those students not interested in a surgery residency there because it was a lot more benign. This was my first month of M3 year. The team I was on had 4 attendings and one fourth year surg resident, and this 3 month block for the residents was extremely popular as this was usually their first real chance to get some extensive practice on bread and butter procedures.

6am - arrive at the hospital, usually meet with my resident for a brief rundown of any major events overnight.

0600-0620 - check nursing notes, get vitals, I/O's and lab results off the EMR

0620-0700 - see the patients I was following (early on, usually just 2, later in the month 3), write notes on them, present them to my resident, have her cosign my notes, follow her to see the rest of our patients (with 4 attendings our list was usually 15+)

700 - one day a week was M&M, one day was Breast CA conference, and one morning a week (starting at 8am) was Grand Rounds and resident teaching day back at the University.

700-745 if no conference, breakfast, quick rounds with one of the attendings. I would briefly present my patient, give a cursory plan (again, first month of M3, everyone sucks), and answer a few softball questions.

745 - 1430 or 1600 (depending on which attendings had clinic that afternoon) OR...and usually a leisurely lunch thrown in. I was the only student and there was only the one resident, so I got to scrub in on every single case, every day. Lots of retracting, but I usually got to do most of the closing - especially after I had shown myself capable. I also held/navigated the laproscope a lot of the time. The attendings early on the month usually gave some basic anatomy review, but by my 30th gallbladder removal, that obviously didn't happen any more.

After the last OR case, my resident would usually split the list and I'd do half the post op checks and she'd take the other half, and after that I was free to go home.

Most of the rotation I was home by 4pm, especially after the one attending who loved do surgeries in the afternoon went on vacation. Latest I ever stayed was maybe 7pm one day.

My resident to her credit never scutted me...I only did discharge summaries on patients that I had seen their entire course, and most of the time she just did them because it took her less time to do it then to read and approve mine.

The attendings also told me on the first day not to go to their clinic...ever. Basically they had a small office, so they were limited in the number patients they could see in a day anyways, and it was a hassle as it was to have the resident spend a 1/2 day a week there anyways.

I never had to take call (other than the one night of trauma call that was required by the rotation).
 
That's exactly it -- it varies heavily from place to place. And I honestly didn't feel scutted out on my surgery rotation (although the hours were long). I learned a ton, was part of a great team (and all the work I did made me feel more a part of the team, whereas 'scut' usually makes you feel inferior somehow to the team). That said, if I had rotated through the community hospital option, I would have been out every day by four or five and only worked four days per week (they give you friday through sunday off out there because of the travel time and the didactic schedule).

Best,
Anka
 
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