Help!! Trying to make a decision

[Pharmd5]

If anyone can give me some advice, it would be greatly appreciated. So I recently I went on an interview for a pharmacy school in NY and today I just heard back from the school that I was put on the waitlist. It is a little disappointing especially because this school was my first choice. Another school that I went in for an interview also notified me today, I was accepted into this particular school and it's in my home state. On the downside, the school is Candidate status and does not qualify for federal loans as for now, which means I would need to take out private student loans. The school that I was accepted into, gave me two weeks to decide and to put down a deposit to hold my spot. I'm truly grateful for the opportunity but I honestly do not know what to do. I don't know if I should give up my spot and pray/hope that I get into the school that I was waitlisted or just put down the $500 deposit to secure my spot.

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[BC_89]

If anyone can give me some advice, it would be greatly appreciated. So I recently I went on an interview for a pharmacy school in NY and today I just heard back from the school that I was put on the waitlist. It is a little disappointing especially because this school was my first choice. Another school that I went in for an interview also notified me today, I was accepted into this particular school and it's in my home state. On the downside, the school is Candidate status and does not qualify for federal loans as for now, which means I would need to take out private student loans. The school that I was accepted into, gave me two weeks to decide and to put down a deposit to hold my spot. I'm truly grateful for the opportunity but I honestly do not know what to do. I don't know if I should give up my spot and pray/hope that I get into the school that I was waitlisted or just put down the $500 deposit to secure my spot.

You never go to a national or candidate-status program.

Check out the following:

Job Saturation: Is Pharmacy Worth It? Here's What You Need to Know - The $200 Challenge

** Job Saturation: Is Pharmacy Worth It? Here’s What You Need to Know ** Welcome to the $200 Challenge Link & Submission If you were redirected to this thread by the above link (set up by one of our active SDN users), please read the information below and submit your answer(s) if you have...

forums.studentdoctor.net

These numbers are conservative with federal loans. You would be doing yourself a disservice with private loans reaching and ballooning in interesting to close to $300k - $400k or larger with interest killing you off.

I also urge you to look at the following:

Job Market

This is your current pharmD holders and recent graduates and how they are doing paying off their FEDERAL loans (private loans are much higher).

If this is the path you still choose, then you only go to a regionally accredited program. Save the money and wait next year if it means you do not get off the waitlist.

 

[MilknCheerios]

I wouldn't even have applied to the candidate school to begin with... it's not worth the risk/cost. I'd stay on the wait list with your #1 school and cross my fingers. While it sucks being in "limbo," consider using this year to bolster your application for next year such as acquiring work experience, extracurriculars, or improving your GPA.

 

[mentos]

LMAO a deposit to "hold your spot". Don't give them any money, I guarantee they will call you and beg for your money after two weeks. What a joke.

 

[Pharmd5]

You never go to a national or candidate-status program.

Check out the following:

Job Saturation: Is Pharmacy Worth It? Here's What You Need to Know - The $200 Challenge

** Job Saturation: Is Pharmacy Worth It? Here’s What You Need to Know ** Welcome to the $200 Challenge Link & Submission If you were redirected to this thread by the above link (set up by one of our active SDN users), please read the information below and submit your answer(s) if you have...

forums.studentdoctor.net

These numbers are conservative with federal loans. You would be doing yourself a disservice with private loans reaching and ballooning in interesting to close to $300k - $400k or larger with interest killing you off.

I also urge you to look at the following:

Job Market

This is your current pharmD holders and recent graduates and how they are doing paying off their FEDERAL loans (private loans are much higher).

If this is the path you still choose, then you only go to a regionally accredited program. Save the money and wait next year if it means you do not get off the waitlist.

I wouldn't even have applied to the candidate school to begin with... it's not worth the risk/cost. I'd stay on the wait list with your #1 school and cross my fingers. While it sucks being in "limbo," consider using this year to bolster your application for next year such as acquiring work experience, extracurriculars, or improving your GPA.

Yeah I know. I was hoping by the time I applied they would be accredited.

 

[Pharmd5]

LMAO a deposit to "hold your spot". Don't give them any money, I guarantee they will call you and beg for your money after two weeks. What a joke.

Lol! Most schools have you put down a deposit that goes towards your tuition

 

[mentos]

Lol! Most schools have you put down a deposit that goes towards your tuition

Not in November.

 

[Hels2007]

In the current environment, I wouldn't go to a pharmacy school unless I was dead set on pharmacy as a career option, AND had a track record of good grades and extracurriculars in undergrad so I could be confident I would be successful in pharmacy school and have options after graduation AND I got into a school that offered me scholarships and/or was my local school with in-state tuition so I would graduate with no more than $50-60K in loans AND that school had a good reputation and plenty of alumni to help you get a foot in the door. Do the cost-benefit analysis.

 

[TerryTerry]

If you get private loan to go to pharmacy school, your life will turn into hell the very moment you sign that loan.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Lol! Most schools have you put down a deposit that goes towards your tuition

@mentos ’ point is that the spot will still probably be there until the first day of school even if you don’t put down a deposit. Pharmacy schools are begging for students to fill their seats - that is suckers willing to take out $200k+ in loans and be faced with grim job prospects and terrible work conditions.

 

[PSOP Student]

Lol! Most schools have you put down a deposit that goes towards your tuition

Go ALL IN bro. You are clearly way too researched and smart not to suceed as a medical professional. It looks like you did all your homework. You will be the pick of your class. Put $10,000 on that hold, as you will make millions after you graduate and you will also land a $200,000+ job since everyone is hiring at the moment.

No better and respected profession than pharmacy.

 

[King2440]

Go ALL IN bro. You are clearly way too researched and smart not to suceed as a medical professional. It looks like you did all your homework. You will be the pick of your class. Put $10,000 on that hold, as you will make millions after you graduate and you will also land a $200,000+ job since everyone is hiring at the moment.

No better and respected profession than pharmacy.

If your one of the lucky ones, they will even throw in a prestigious BMW as a sign on bonus.

 

[mentos]

OP better reserve his spot before it's too late! Class of 2025 is almost full! If you call admissions with in the next 10 minutes, you can have one of the hundreds of spots for only $500!

 

[rxkrafted]

You sound really desperate so I am willing to bet that you didn't do research on the job market for pharmacy and really only focused on your potential income IF you even land a job.

 

[zona2016]

Apply to other schools or reapply next year, a candidate status program no matter how good they seem to be is not an option period. Apply to other schools if possible, there is still plenty of time in this cycle.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Dont do it. Just dont. Even if you get in, youre gonna go through hell if youre a subpar student, failing classes. If you somehow manage to graduate, you wont be able to find a job. Especially in east or west coast. Granted, youll be graduating in 2025, so maybe things have gotten better but there is no way to tell. I would look for another career. Youre welcome

 

[PSOP Student]

Granted, youll be graduating in 2025, so maybe things have gotten better but there is no way to tell. I would look for another career.

I think all these "start program at blah blah blah" are just the programs trolling to get their names on the board for free advertisement. Then again, bottom of the barrel type of students are the ones posting and they don't listen very well. The intelligent ones have all left the field. The only ones left are the slow ones. Egg these fools onward, they deserve the loans and their inability to even use Google is what is most amazing.

Also, not to be a negative Nancy, but it is NOT going to get better anytime soon. Let's be real and cut the BS. You can't own a $200,000+ debt and survive on $30/hour floating because CVS doesn't want to pay your health benefits.

 

[mentos]

Granted, youll be graduating in 2025, so maybe things have gotten better but there is no way to tell.

Actually there is a way to tell, the BLS report. Things will NOT be better in 2025.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Actually there is a way to tell, the BLS report. Things will NOT be better in 2025.

Things could change. One thing for sure is laws are being changed on state and federal level. One big reason for the down fall of our profession is corruption of PBMs abd PSAOs. This has sucked the oxygen out of pharmacies across the board but now there are several legislatives being passed where they no longer can bully. We shall see how this turns out but my assumption is that this could be the start of the balance tipping in the other direction.

 

[mentos]

Things could change. One thing for sure is laws are being changed on state and federal level. One big reason for the down fall of our profession is corruption of PBMs abd PSAOs. This has sucked the oxygen out of pharmacies across the board but now there are several legislatives being passed where they no longer can bully. We shall see how this turns out but my assumption is that this could be the start of the balance tipping in the other direction.

There are unemployed pharmacists today in 2019. How will things get better in 2025 when there will be 90,000+ more pharmDs by then? Pharmacists aren't retiring and jobs aren't being created, that's for sure.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

There are unemployed pharmacists today in 2019. How will things get better in 2025 when there will be 90,000+ more pharmDs by then? Pharmacists aren't retiring and jobs aren't being created, that's for sure.

The reason for the cut hours and layoffs is due to low reimbursements. Just read an article about walmart fighting caremark pbm due to that reason. These changes in law i mentioned could be a game changer. Number of patients is not decreasing, neither is number of scripts but somehow there are less workers? If pbms reimbursement issue is corrected things will normalize again im sure. That being said, schools need to be shut down for sure haha. When i say normalized, i am talking about the pharmacists and pharmacies that are currently operating and practicing. So... yeah, i may be wrong in that things will get any better for yall new grads lol but then again, who knows.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

The reason for the cut hours and layoffs is due to low reimbursements. Just read an article about walmart fighting caremark pbm due to that reason. These changes in law i mentioned could be a game changer. Number of patients is not decreasing, neither is number of scripts but somehow there are less workers? If pbms reimbursement issue is corrected things will normalize again im sure. That being said, schools need to be shut down for sure haha. When i say normalized, i am talking about the pharmacists and pharmacies that are currently operating and practicing. So... yeah, i may be wrong in that things will get any better for yall new grads lol but then again, who knows.

Thinking that things will get better because “pbm reimbursements will get better” is just naive thinking. Pharmacy chains have zero leverage in negotiating against pbms and if laws do change that affect pbm reimbursement to pharmacies, do you think pbms are really just that stupid to sit there and accept a loss to their margins? They will most likely come up other ways to game the system/extract money from pharmacies, such as changing the terms of performance guarantees, etc.

Keep in mind that the one common thing that corporate pharmacy chains and pbms have in common are that they both exist to make money for their shareholders...

 

[mentos]

The reason for the cut hours and layoffs is due to low reimbursements. Just read an article about walmart fighting caremark pbm due to that reason. These changes in law i mentioned could be a game changer. Number of patients is not decreasing, neither is number of scripts but somehow there are less workers? If pbms reimbursement issue is corrected things will normalize again im sure. That being said, schools need to be shut down for sure haha. When i say normalized, i am talking about the pharmacists and pharmacies that are currently operating and practicing. So... yeah, i may be wrong in that things will get any better for yall new grads lol but then again, who knows.

If reimbursements go back up, you think the chains will share that profit with their employees? LMAO! In their eyes, pharmacists and techs are all overhead. They are getting by with a skeleton crew right now. If reimbursements go up, that extra profit will go straight into the CEO and shareholders' pockets.

 

[PharmtoCS]

The market can remain irrational for far longer than you can stay solvent. It is a bad idea to make any decisions on predictions or even worse, hopes that the job market will get better.

I'm directing this primarily at the pre-pharms who will end up with $200k+ in loans that accrue interest at 6%+ each year

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

If reimbursements go back up, you think the chains will share that profit with their employees? LMAO! In their eyes, pharmacists and techs are all overhead. They are getting by with a skeleton crew right now. If reimbursements go up, that extra profit will go straight into the CEO and shareholders' pockets.

Well somewhat true. Sure, if you work for a chain your life will suck no matter what. If reimbursements improve, independent pharmacies will for sure benefit. This can help us complete better.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

Well somewhat true. Sure, if you work for a chain your life will suck no matter what. If reimbursements improve, independent pharmacies will for sure benefit. This can help us complete better.

Let’s just face it, independents are going to go extinct soon independent of reimbursements— it’s just how the market is headed. There is horizontal integration/consolidation going on in all facets of the health care system (PBMs merging, medical groups/hospitals merging, specialty/retail pharmacies merging, etc.) because it’s all about increasing your negotiating power and cutting costs, and independents are getting squeezed out because of this. If there are any reforms to laws, rest assured that independents will be the LAST group to benefit from it.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Let’s just face it, independents are going to go extinct soon independent of reimbursements— it’s just how the market is headed. There is horizontal integration/consolidation going on in all facets of the health care system (PBMs merging, medical groups/hospitals merging, specialty/retail pharmacies merging, etc.) because it’s all about increasing your negotiating power and cutting costs, and independents are getting squeezed out because of this. If there are any reforms to laws, rest assured that independents will be the LAST group to benefit from it.

Where do you work?

 

[deleted562805]

Dont do it. Just dont. Even if you get in, youre gonna go through hell if youre a subpar student, failing classes. If you somehow manage to graduate, you wont be able to find a job. Especially in east or west coast. Granted, youll be graduating in 2025, so maybe things have gotten better but there is no way to tell. I would look for another career. Youre welcome

It is hard to find a job even down South

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

Where do you work?

Not retail. Why?

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Not retail. Why?

Sounded like youre missing a few things regarding independents but at the same time sounded very confident in how its run and whats going on right now.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

Sounded like youre missing a few things regarding independents but at the same time sounded very confident in how its run and whats going on right now.

Don’t need to know the details about how independents are run, just need to understand high level, and how the pharmacy supply chain works. Independents are losers in almost every angle.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Don’t need to know the details about how independents are run, just need to understand high level, and how the pharmacy supply chain works. Independents are losers in almost every angle.

I see. Good to know but make sure you understand how things work completely before condescending stating your opinion since youre gonna sound like a fool if whoever youre talking to is an expert. Dont really want to give out any proprietary info and help you understand what probably is esoteric to most people but, no youre wrong in that indies are losers. Some, small number, may be losing out due to bad management but others are thriving. Ill leave it at that.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

I see. Good to know but make sure you understand how things work completely before condescending stating your opinion since youre gonna sound like a fool if whoever youre talking to is an expert. Dont really want to give out any proprietary info and help you understand what probably is esoteric to most people but, no youre wrong in that indies are losers. Some, small number, may be losing out due to bad management but others are thriving. Ill leave it at that.

I know the games independents play to stay relevant. I’ll give you an example: promising quicker prior authorization turnaround time for specialty meds than chain pharmacies. Bush league tactics might work in the short term but they aren’t sustainable strategies.

 

[mentos]

I see. Good to know but make sure you understand how things work completely before condescending stating your opinion since youre gonna sound like a fool if whoever youre talking to is an expert. Dont really want to give out any proprietary info and help you understand what probably is esoteric to most people but, no youre wrong in that indies are losers. Some, small number, may be losing out due to bad management but others are thriving. Ill leave it at that.

Then why are most of them out of business?

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Then why are most of them out of business?

Uhhh what? Most? Where are you getting these data?

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

I know the games independents play to stay relevant. I’ll give you an example: promising quicker prior authorization turnaround time for specialty meds than chain pharmacies. Bush league tactics might work in the short term but they aren’t sustainable strategies.

Right... again, no. Nice try but it aint it chief.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

Right... again, no. Nice try but it aint it chief.

To each their own bro. Don’t come crying later when you run out of business.

 

[TerryTerry]

Any independent pharmacy waiting for PBM to change will go out of business soon. That`s all I know.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Alrighty. You're right. We are about to go out of business I guess. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[TerryTerry]

Not about right or wrong. If that`s the only thing your store is counting on, yes, they won`t last long.
The reimbursement rate has been changed too negatively past 2 years. Each store needs to figure something out to make profit another way.

 

[mentos]

Uhhh what? Most? Where are you getting these data?

This is common knowledge.

More Policies Needed to Protect Independent Pharmacies from Closure, Study Finds

One in 8 pharmacies closed from 2009 to 2015, despite an overall increase in the number of pharmacies during this time.

www.pharmacytimes.com

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2019-10-24/independent-pharmacies-are-closing-down-across-the-us

My hometown used to have over 30 independent pharmacies, now there are two. The chains either drive them out of business, or they buy them then close them a few years later.

The chains are struggling to turn a profit. If an independent can do it, it's either impressive or suspicious.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

This is common knowledge.

More Policies Needed to Protect Independent Pharmacies from Closure, Study Finds

One in 8 pharmacies closed from 2009 to 2015, despite an overall increase in the number of pharmacies during this time.

www.pharmacytimes.com

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2019-10-24/independent-pharmacies-are-closing-down-across-the-us

My hometown used to have over 30 independent pharmacies, now there are two. The chains either drive them out of business, or they buy them then close them a few years later.

The chains are struggling to turn a profit. If an independent can do it, it's either impressive or suspicious.

Most pharmacies committing insurance fraud are independents.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Not about right or wrong. If that`s the only thing your store is counting on, yes, they won`t last long.
The reimbursement rate has been changed too negatively past 2 years. Each store needs to figure something out to make profit another way.

An independent pharmacy, or any pharmacy for that matter, will not only rely on PBM reimbursements. Cash patients make up a good chunk and so does OTC and non-pharmacy front store items. Don't forget about DMEs.

That being said, i've been seeing an upward trend in reimbursements of late. Our profit has increased from last year due to higher reimbursements. As I said before, some pharmacies are struggling but not the majority. Either having multiple pharmacies or being in a large buying group helps you with vendor's rebates or being able to find cheap generics will def help as well. Last time i checked, an average pharmacy profits about $700k - 800k per year... but then again, what do I know. I'm sure we're gonna go out of business soon.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Most pharmacies committing insurance fraud are independents.

Most pharmacies that close ARE committing insurance fraud. Once they catch you do something fishy, they'll cancel your contract. Especially caremark, prime and optium are known to be aggressive in hunting down on pharmacies that do things outside of the contracts. Once you lose any of those, you're done.

 

[TerryTerry]

An independent pharmacy, or any pharmacy for that matter, will not only rely on PBM reimbursements. Cash patients make up a good chunk and so does OTC and non-pharmacy front store items. Don't forget about DMEs.

That being said, i've been seeing an upward trend in reimbursements of late. Our profit has increased from last year due to higher reimbursements. As I said before, some pharmacies are struggling but not the majority. Either having multiple pharmacies or being in a large buying group helps you with vendor's rebates or being able to find cheap generics will def help as well. Last time i checked, an average pharmacy profits about $700k - 800k per year... but then again, what do I know. I'm sure we're gonna go out of business soon.

Calm down. Nobody is questioning your knowledge.
All I am saying is that it`s not easy out there. It`s more than just opening a pharmacy and waiting for profit to happen.

I have a feeling that you are gonna overreact to this post too. So please let me tell you to calm down one more time.

And I definitely did not know average independent pharmacies make near half a million dollar a year.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Calm down. Nobody is questioning your knowledge.
All I am saying is that it`s not easy out there. It`s more than just opening a pharmacy and waiting for profit to happen.

I have a feeling that you are gonna overreact to this post too. So please let me tell you to calm down one more time.

And I definitely did not know average independent pharmacies make near half a million dollar a year.

I overreacted? haha b/c I explained how an independent pharmacy works? you all need to calm down with this "it's the end for all independent pharmacy" chant without having any knowledge on how one operates. Just because chain pharmacies are going down the toilet and there are talks of independent pharmacies struggling, does not mean all pharmacies are going to go through this.

It is a bad idea to open a new pharmacy though. It usually takes about 2-3 years to make any profit if you build it ground up. Best thing is to buy a pharmacy that's doing well right now.

 

[TerryTerry]

I overreacted? haha b/c I explained how an independent pharmacy works? you all need to calm down with this "it's the end for all independent pharmacy" chant without having any knowledge on how one operates. Just because chain pharmacies are going down the toilet and there are talks of independent pharmacies struggling, does not mean all pharmacies are going to go through this.

It is a bad idea to open a new pharmacy though. It usually takes about 2-3 years to make any profit if you build it ground up. Best thing is to buy a pharmacy that's doing well right now.

See? You did overreact.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

See? You did overreact.

Okay. Thanks mom.

 

[mentos]

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Loving how yall are telling me to calm down after I schooled you on how indies make money and falsified your claims... lol.