Help with deciding which interviews to go on

[medmopp]

I think you should at least check out UW and Cornell if you have the time and money. Otherwise on the other list Cinci and MCW are a couple of often overlooked programs that are actually pretty good - not to say the rest are "bad" - just that those are the two I'd definitely go to.

Thanks, I was hesitant to give up UW and Cornell as well. However, I'm surprised about MCW and Cinci. Would you keep those two over CCF and Case?

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[jdh71]

Thanks, I was hesitant to give up UW and Cornell as well. However, I'm surprised about MCW and Cinci. Would you keep those two over CCF and Case?

Yes. But that's me and not because case or CCF are "bad". Those are a couple of places I ve had a good report on and if you're starting to tucker out, I think check those two out.

 

[HelpPleaseMD]

Thanks, I was hesitant to give up UW and Cornell as well. However, I'm surprised about MCW and Cinci. Would you keep those two over CCF and Case?

i'd visit all the ohio programs and see what you think...ive actually heard some good things about case. .. but agreed, definitely keep the two mentioned above.

I did not apply to any programs in texas but I'd consider paying baylor a visit.
disclaimer: im a fellow MS4 so I do not know much about the programs.

 

[amine2086]

Thanks, I was hesitant to give up UW and Cornell as well. However, I'm surprised about MCW and Cinci. Would you keep those two over CCF and Case?

CCF and Case have much better name recognition compared to Cinci or MCW (at least according to people I have talked to). I think CCF is very well known for it's fellowship programs. If your career plan includes a future fellowship, I would go to CCF and Case over Cinci or MCW. Definitely go to UW, Cornell and Baylor.

Disclaimer: I am a fellow IM applicant who has interviewed at some of the places you have listed. So, take my advice for what it's worth.

 

[yoyopa]

Never thought I'd wind up posting in here, but I'm on interview 12 and pretty burned out (not to mention looking at my last bank statement was nauseating). Already interviewed at a number of great places I could see myself happy at. Like a previous poster I'm kind of allergic to the East coast after spending some time out there (expensive, crowded, and pretentious to name a few of the downsides). Roots are in the South/Midwest.

Any absolute keepers from the list below based on people's previous experiences:

Dartmouth
Mt. Sinai
Cornell
Yale
U of Rochester
UAB
Indiana
Ohio State
Scripps Green
UCI
UCD
Arizona
Utah (leaning towards keeping this one)
UTSW
Baylor
Case Western (University, not Metro)
Virginia (leaning towards keeping this one)
Wake Forest

Thanks

 

[gutonc]

Never thought I'd wind up posting in here, but I'm on interview 12 and pretty burned out (not to mention looking at my last bank statement was nauseating). Already interviewed at a number of great places I could see myself happy at. Like a previous poster I'm kind of allergic to the East coast after spending some time out there (expensive, crowded, and pretentious to name a few of the downsides). Roots are in the South/Midwest.

Any absolute keepers from the list below based on people's previous experiences:

Dartmouth
Mt. Sinai
Cornell
Yale
U of Rochester
UAB
Indiana
Ohio State
Scripps Green
UCI
UCD
Arizona
Utah (leaning towards keeping this one)
UTSW
Baylor
Case Western (University, not Metro)
Virginia (leaning towards keeping this one)
Wake Forest

Thanks

You've already been on 12 interviews in addition to this list? I'll just start by saying that you could cancel all of them and you'd probably be just fine. But let's say you want to keep 5 of the above. These are the ones that I would keep. You may feel differently.

Dartmouth
Mt Sinai
Utah
Ohio State
UAB (or Yale or UVA...honestly, flip a coin)

Definitely ditch:
Rochester
Scripts
Arizona
UCI/D
Case

 

[elizalandry]

Need to cancel either Dartmouth or BU. Which one should I go to? Want to do cards. BU's match seemed stronger but Dartmouth gets a lot of love here. Any suggestions?

 

[Sauce1]

You've already been on 12 interviews in addition to this list? I'll just start by saying that you could cancel all of them and you'd probably be just fine. But let's say you want to keep 5 of the above. These are the ones that I would keep. You may feel differently.

Dartmouth
Mt Sinai
Utah
Ohio State
UAB (or Yale or UVA...honestly, flip a coin)

Definitely ditch:
Rochester
Scripts
Arizona
UCI/D
Case

I don't know why case gets so much crap on here especially from you. They are a solid program and on the rise. Still probably not a "top 25" program but I think they are close and on the rise. They got a bunch of cards faculty from BW as well and their cards match this year (really the whole match) was ridiculous. Residents seemed awesome too. Ill probably rank them 3 or 4 but the program really surprised me. You should go check it out. I also interviewed at OSU and its alright, but was underwhelmed by it. Case definitely >>>OSU.

 

[trickster123]

Never thought I'd wind up posting in here, but I'm on interview 12 and pretty burned out (not to mention looking at my last bank statement was nauseating). Already interviewed at a number of great places I could see myself happy at. Like a previous poster I'm kind of allergic to the East coast after spending some time out there (expensive, crowded, and pretentious to name a few of the downsides). Roots are in the South/Midwest.

Any absolute keepers from the list below based on people's previous experiences:

Dartmouth
Mt. Sinai
Cornell
Yale
U of Rochester
UAB
Indiana
Ohio State
Scripps Green
UCI
UCD
Arizona
Utah (leaning towards keeping this one)
UTSW
Baylor
Case Western (University, not Metro)
Virginia (leaning towards keeping this one)
Wake Forest

Thanks

Why not wanna keep UTSW? They are a strong clinically and their match is pretty impressive. Isn't it like a top 10-15 program?

 

[fantasty]

Definitely ditch:
Rochester

Just curious why on this one. Agree, however, that the poster is probably golden if already done 12.

 

[gutonc]

Just curious why on this one. Agree, however, that the poster is probably golden if already done 12.

Location + Other Better Interviews = Ditch Rochester.

 

[jdh71]

I don't know why case gets so much crap on here especially from you. They are a solid program and on the rise. Still probably not a "top 25" program but I think they are close and on the rise. They got a bunch of cards faculty from BW as well and their cards match this year (really the whole match) was ridiculous. Residents seemed awesome too. Ill probably rank them 3 or 4 but the program really surprised me. You should go check it out. I also interviewed at OSU and its alright, but was underwhelmed by it. Case definitely >>>OSU.

You sound upset friend.

We all have our opinions. We do our best to help. If you liked case and will rank them highly. Good. No one hates you. No one is even angry about it.

This is why people need to go interview. And also not take personal opinions regarding subjective "ranks".

 

[jdh71]

Need to cancel either Dartmouth or BU. Which one should I go to? Want to do cards. BU's match seemed stronger but Dartmouth gets a lot of love here. Any suggestions?

I like Dartmouth. And you're not going to change your match chances that much between BU and Dartmouth based on name line. It's not like if you go to Dartmouth you're screwed on a cards match. I think probably base your decision on this one based on where you want to live.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Never thought I'd wind up posting in here, but I'm on interview 12 and pretty burned out (not to mention looking at my last bank statement was nauseating). Already interviewed at a number of great places I could see myself happy at. Like a previous poster I'm kind of allergic to the East coast after spending some time out there (expensive, crowded, and pretentious to name a few of the downsides). Roots are in the South/Midwest.

Any absolute keepers from the list below based on people's previous experiences:

Dartmouth
Mt. Sinai
Cornell
Yale
U of Rochester
UAB
Indiana
Ohio State
Scripps Green
UCI
UCD
Arizona
Utah (leaning towards keeping this one)
UTSW
Baylor
Case Western (University, not Metro)
Virginia (leaning towards keeping this one)
Wake Forest

Thanks

Virginia
UAB
UTSW
+/- Yale,

 

[milkncookies]

You sound upset friend.

We all have our opinions. We do our best to help. If you liked case and will rank them highly. Good. No one hates you. No one is even angry about it.

This is why people need to go interview. And also not take personal opinions regarding subjective "ranks".

Jdh71 and gutonc would you mind explaining why you don't view case western university hospital that highly and what tier it would be.

I'm asking because since I'm still a med student and you guys are seasoned veterans maybe I'm not considering some aspects when analyzing a residency program that I should be.

So my understanding is the clinical training is at least better than CCF, its med dept is top 10 in NIH funding, the program director, Dr. Armitage, is supposed to be great and a real advocate for residents, and their fellowship match this year seems quite good: http://www.cwrumedicine.org/images/current_residents/2013 match results.doc

I would really appreciate your insight.

 

[jdh71]

Jdh71 and gutonc would you mind explaining why you don't view case western university hospital that highly and what tier it would be.

I'm asking because since I'm still a med student and you guys are seasoned veterans maybe I'm not considering some aspects when analyzing a residency program that I should be.

So my understanding is the clinical training is at least better than CCF, its med dept is top 10 in NIH funding, the program director, Dr. Armitage, is supposed to be great and a real advocate for residents, and their fellowship match this year seems quite good: http://www.cwrumedicine.org/images/current_residents/2013 match results.doc

I would really appreciate your insight.

I don't think I ever thought I viewed it "badly". Neither me, nor gutonc have ever said it was a "bad" program. Seems like a good place to train. You should go there if you are interested and see if you like it.

I think it's solid middle tier. And no shame in that.

 

[milkncookies]

I don't think I ever thought I viewed it "badly". Neither me, nor gutonc have ever said it was a "bad" program. Seems like a good place to train. You should go there if you are interested and see if you like it.

I think it's solid middle tier. And no shame in that.

I appreciate the response.
I didn't mean to imply you viewed it "badly"

How do you view it vs dartmouth, maryland, einstein-montefiore, urochester, in terms of reputation/fellowship placement

 

[jdh71]

Case could be the next Pitt.

Seems to be one of the few Universities right now trying to take serious acquiring serious academic talent. I'm not sure what their model is, how much money the medical school has, and how much direct support researchers are getting from the institution itself. I have a sneaking suspicion they have something interesting or progressive going on - thinking past the old paradigm.

I think most institutions are going to have to start getting real about the fact that the Federal government isn't going to cough up the money like it used to and if they want to have a vibrant research base, they need to get serious about funding and protecting, themselves, their own young with REAL research tracks, not some garbage 50/50 without support or space nonsense. If medical science if going to go forward the institutions themselves will need to start funding their own at 80%, with space to work, and money for supplies. Otherwise we are losing a whole generation of physician scientists.

 

[jdh71]

I appreciate the response.
I didn't mean to imply you viewed it "badly"

How do you view it vs dartmouth, maryland, einstein-montefiore, urochester, in terms of reputation/fellowship placement

Forcing me to rank it with those . . . probably it's in the same ballpark as dartmouth and maryland and definitely better that monte or rochester (though neither monte nor rochester are "bad" ether and I think rochester is a bit of a hidden gem)

 

[milkncookies]

Forcing me to rank it with those . . . probably it's in the same ballpark as dartmouth and maryland and definitely better that monte or rochester (though neither monte nor rochester are "bad" ether and I think rochester is a bit of a hidden gem)

Thanks. Yeah that's about where I had viewed it out of those programs. I agree with you about the funding situation, it is quite a difficult state of affairs in the world of physician scientists.

 

[keindo]

Scripps Green, U Maryland, Einstein Monte, RWJ, Pitt, Tufts -- which 3 would you go to? No location preference.

 

[gutonc]

Scripps Green, U Maryland, Einstein Monte, RWJ, Pitt, Tufts -- which 3 would you go to? No location preference.

Maryland, RWJ and Pitt.

 

[keindo]

Maryland, RWJ and Pitt.

And if you had to pick two of the above three? And in your opinion RWJ > Tufts huh?

Thanks so much for your help.

 

[gutonc]

And if you had to pick two of the above three?

Thanks so much for your help.

Pitt and flip a coin.

 

[jdh71]

Pitt and flip a coin.

Pitt and Maryland

 

[Plebianman]

I need some advice on whether or not it would serve me well to go on some interviews. The interviews I have been on so far (and those I will 100% go on) are, in no particular order:

-BIDMC
-Mt. Sinai
-Wash U St. Louis
-UCLA
-Hopkins Osler
-Hopkins Bayview
-U. Mich
-Mayo (Rochester)
-NYU
-Case Western
-Cleveland Clinic
-Brown
-Jefferson
-Georgetown

The interviews I am not sure whether I need to/should go on are:

-Boston University
-Tufts
-Wake Forest
-UCSD
-Einstein Beth Israel (NY)
-University of Alabama
-Robert Wood Johnson

I know, I know, I scheduled a **** load of interviews, but any advice would be much appreciated. I pretty much have to make my decision on BU today (for politeness sake), so advice on that would be terrific. Thanks in advance!

 

[jdh71]

Cancel the rest FFS

 

[Plebianman]

Cancel the rest FFS

That's aimed at me, right? You are probably right. I have such a hard time cancelling interviews. I swear I have spent the last 5 hours scouring the internet for information and opinions on BU. I think I am leaning towards cancelling it, as I probably can't see myself ranking it within my top 10, but I just want to make sure that I have enough safeties on there.

 

[jdh71]

BU is a fine program. But what's the point? Cancel the rest.

 

[gutonc]

That's aimed at me, right? You are probably right. I have such a hard time cancelling interviews. I swear I have spent the last 5 hours scouring the internet for information and opinions on BU. I think I am leaning towards cancelling it, as I probably can't see myself ranking it within my top 10, but I just want to make sure that I have enough safeties on there.

What he said. Maybe go to UCSD to get a couple of days in the sun on the beach. Otherwise, bag them.

 

[Plebianman]

Gonna go ahead and cancel. Thanks for the advice guys, I definitely needed the push.

 

[fantasty]

Agree, but follow-up question (been lurking a little lately). With at least 14 interviews and a mention of ranking at least 10, I don't think the others really have anything to add over the places you listed.

I'm just curious because I haven't paid much attention over the last few years (to the forum but have watched the match stats). Are folks going in IM playing it safer (longer lists) with what appears to be a tougher match? (I'm guessing this has been discussed at length elsewhere)

 

[jdh71]

Agree, but follow-up question (been lurking a little lately). With at least 14 interviews and a mention of ranking at least 10, I don't think the others really have anything to add over the places you listed.

I'm just curious because I haven't paid much attention over the last few years (to the forum but have watched the match stats). Are folks going in IM playing it safer (longer lists) with what appears to be a tougher match? (I'm guessing this has been discussed at length elsewhere)

Yes. People are going to more interviews and ranking more places these days. The match is tougher, but only at the "higher" end.

 

[fantasty]

Yes. People are going to more interviews and ranking more places these days. The match is tougher, but only at the "higher" end.

I thought the unfilled spots (pre-scrample or whatever it is called now) in IM was really low across the board last year. I may have hallucinated that though.

 

[IMPD]

I thought the unfilled spots (pre-scrample or whatever it is called now) in IM was really low across the board last year. I may have hallucinated that though.

The scrample. Heh.

The total number of apps is about double what it was 5-6 years ago, from both increased number of average applications and increased number of actual people in the Match.
The high-end always vacuums up the talent and driven. *Darn you, high end programs!*

If you look at the 6000 spots in IM, AMGs matched 3000 last year. My prediction is that AMGs match 3250 spots this year. Since those additional 250 AMGs are not all going to high-end programs, they are putting some pressure on usual mid-tier program applicants who are seeing AMGs at interview days that they were not at a few years ago.

Overall, though, you are correct that this leaves ~2600 spots that almost *any* AMG could get. These are spots that will continue to be filled by US and Intl IMGs.

 

[keindo]

The total number of apps is about double what it was 5-6 years ago, from both increased number of average applications and increased number of actual people in the Match.

It's hard to say (at least for me, as an applicant), what % of that is from an increase in applicants and what % is from an increase in applications. We will find out how many more applicants there are, obviously, but it's unclear how many more applications programs are seeing. The latter is a "false" increase because each person can still only go to one residency, and it seems this will result in programs dropping farther down their rank list--if superduperstar applicant A interviews at 15 places instead of 10, and they all rank him/her first, 14 programs will drop past him/her instead of 9.

Do you think PDs are accounting for this deviation or still using historic interview/spot ratios (or alternately, has it been trending this way for years and therefore they can extrapolate)?

 

[IMPD]

Do you think PDs are accounting for this deviation or still using historic interview/spot ratios (or alternately, has it been trending this way for years and therefore they can extrapolate)?

PDs are taking a wide variety of approaches with the increased applications. It is also being widely discussed on the national PD listserv. Some have made no change to their interview numbers, some have increased.
What is the upper limit for how many interviews applicants will go on? 20? 25? 30? Clearly there is a limit and the pressure people feel with competition at the upper-end is clearly real.

Since I am relatively new at my job I can't speak much about how this compares to previous years except that the old hands here all remarked about the trend being more noticeable this year.

To my mind, there are tiers of programs that must have put in significant efforts to either expand their interview numbers or create new selection criteria. And considering that about half of AMG applicants to medicine are not planning on going into internal medicine, the whole thing becomes quite a complicated piece of guesstimation.

Our program's response was to max out interviews and play this from a "we're good, if they come here and interview, many will recognize that and come here in July". I know other programs have rationally decided to take other approaches.

 

[DoctwoB]

Unfortunately it really seems like a lose-lose situation for both sides. As you mentioned, some programs will interview more people, while some will try to use more arbitrary criteria (perceived interest, geography, etc.) to try and cut down the number of interviews given to people who are unlikely to match there. Thus applicants get hosed because interviews become lower yield (higher interviewee/spot ratio) or don't get interviews at places they really are interested in from perceived lack of interest. Programs get hosed because they need more time/expense to interview more people or may miss out on good applicants who they don't interview because of perceived lack of interest.

Can't we all just agree to cut back?

 

[jdh71]

Can't we all just agree to cut back?

Sure.

You first.

(gotta love a messican stand-off!)

 

[amakhosidlo]

One more: Weather's completely f*cked my travel plans, Stanford's on the chopping block unless I decide to double-down $$-wise, or the airline gods work some serious magic. Draw me some coarse analogies between Stanford and Michigan, Mayo, UW. I'm thinking it's just a more progressive Mayo (High-roller pts, limited range of pathology, deep pockets) located in the bay area. How far off am I?

 

[HelpPleaseMD]

One more: Weather's completely f*cked my travel plans, Stanford's on the chopping block unless I decide to double-down $$-wise, or the airline gods work some serious magic. Draw me some coarse analogies between Stanford and Michigan, Mayo, UW. I'm thinking it's just a more progressive Mayo (High-roller pts, limited range of pathology, deep pockets) located in the bay area. How far off am I?

Weather fudged with my plans as well.... missed my connecting flight so they me a return ticket to New York.. I use southwest and called their customer service and kept talking with the representative and eventually the supervisor before they offered to rebook the flights free of charge. It takes an hr but its worth the 600 you will save for having to book last minute

 

[tallash]

One more: Weather's completely f*cked my travel plans, Stanford's on the chopping block unless I decide to double-down $$-wise, or the airline gods work some serious magic. Draw me some coarse analogies between Stanford and Michigan, Mayo, UW. I'm thinking it's just a more progressive Mayo (High-roller pts, limited range of pathology, deep pockets) located in the bay area. How far off am I?

Meh, I personally liked Mayo much much more than Stanford.

Michigan and UW give you some really rigorous training that, if anything, is underrated and I would say those two are interchangeable and come down to your personal preference.

Mayo and Stanford are closer in terms of style - less 'intense' on the inpatient side than UM/UW - but play to different strengths overall. I think the pathology at Mayo is incredible in a lot of ways that Stanford's isn't, just based on referral patterns and international renown, and that if you keep your butt in gear at Mayo you can be incredibly productive as a resident and probably open more doors as a result.

Stanford is great for - some - fellowships and has its perks. Great location, great PD, great name. Great place to be an attending. You move it out of the Bay area, though, or change its name to University of California, Palo Alto, and I think it quickly loses its luster. You move Stanford to Rochester, MN, and it's no Mayo. But....it's in the Bay area and applicants' grandmothers will always recognize its name, so yeah, it's always going to have its appeal.