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Agreed. Idiots are idiots. Has nothing to do with the degree.
Most likely unfortunately is that he knows he's selling bull**** but has no trouble doing so if it garners him fame and fortune.
Completely agree with the article. It's like all of these people that grew up with two generations of never having to see these diseases and that only read about them on the internet have decided, oh what the hell, that doesn't sound so bad! And despite their being vaccinated themselves, they're willing to bet the health and lives of their children against not only the science but the evidence we currently have of how horrible many of these diseases can be in developing countries. If there's ever even a single case of polio in the United States, I sure as hell hope that there is a public outcry and the leaders of the anti-vaxx movement get dragged to court and imprisoned for damn near forever.
I didn't think they were linking DO=anti vaccine. Wakefield started this whole mess and he is an MD. Really going to jump on a mod to remove an "inflammatory" post? It's deadspin that's what they do, knee jerk removing anything that shows a DO in a bad light because it's "inflammatory" doesn't help anyone. As a DO knowing patients are going to see this ***** on tv and ask questions about his recommendations is a good thing. Plus I'm tired of every Damn post on the DO forum being from a premed asking about the usmle boring!1) That article was painful to read (syntax, diction, fluency).
2) Mods, please remove this inflammatory post.
3) Yes, there are *****s with a DO degree. There are idiots with an MD degree. The title of this post and subsequent comments are inflammatory, insinuating all DOs are responsible for his actions and associated with his views.
If my memory serves me, I believe Dr. Andrew Wakefield was an MD but nobody makes posts saying "Hey! Get a load of this evil [allopathic] doctor." Grow up.
I guess I took it as hyperbole, OP trying to be amusing and not trolling but this is the internet so who knows.I have no problem with just linking the article with the original title. I have no problem with the fact he is a DO (since there are idiots in every career field). I have a problem with adding the qualifier [osteopathic] in the title since OP researched this *****, found out he is a DO (this was not stated in the original article as far as I saw), and then thought that was pertinent/essential information. In my opinion not only is it irrelevant, it is inflammatory. The same way it would be inflammatory to start a thread in the allopathic forum calling attention to the evil [allopathic] doctor Andrew Wakefield. You know what the fate of that thread would be. You know the OP would be called a troll within the first few posts. Call it a knee-jerk reaction if you want. If the mods keep this thread, fine - if they close it down, fine.
I have no problem with just linking the article with the original title. I have no problem with the fact he is a DO (since there are idiots in every career field). I have a problem with adding the qualifier [osteopathic] in the title since OP researched this *****, found out he is a DO (this was not stated in the original article as far as I saw), and then thought that was pertinent/essential information. In my opinion not only is it irrelevant, it is inflammatory. The same way it would be inflammatory to start a thread in the allopathic forum calling attention to the evil [allopathic] doctor Andrew Wakefield. You know what the fate of that thread would be. You know the OP would be called a troll within the first few posts. Call it a knee-jerk reaction if you want. If the mods keep this thread, fine - if they close it down, fine.
Hey, I love the AOA as much as anyone, but give them some credit:
http://www.osteopathic.org/osteopat...ns-library/general-health/Pages/vaccines.aspx
It's a generic statement that effectively says "Vaccines are good". That's not the same as directly acknowledging and addressing the problem of DOs who are, in my opinion, committing professional misconduct by spreading false information about vaccination.
To be fair, there are plenty of MDs that spread dubious info, last I checked the AMA wasn't doing anything to them. Heck, even the state of NY medical board is ignoring a petition against Dr. Oz led by a med student. Last I checked, it was only the FTC that paid him any attention.
The AMA is not the equivalent of the AOA, at least not anymore. Today the AMA primarily exists as a political organization without direct influence on physician licensing, credentialing, etc., unlike the AOA.
You bring up a fair point about the AMA and other professional organizations not speaking out against MDs who do the same thing but I'd argue that DOs don't need to follow the lead of the AMA or MDs in general. The AOA didn't wait for MDs when deciding to establish for-profit schools.
Finally, the NY State Medical Board hasn't formally censured Dr. Oz mostly because the laws in place don't allow them to do so (laws that should be changed in my opinion).
http://www.vox.com/2014/7/12/5891451/meet-the-medical-student-who-wants-to-bring-down-dr-oz-quackery
To be fair, there are plenty of MDs that spread dubious info, last I checked the AMA wasn't doing anything to them. Heck, even the state of NY medical board is ignoring a petition against Dr. Oz led by a med student. Last I checked, it was only the FTC that paid him any attention.
Indeed. If you look at the (short) list of known anti-vaccine doctors, the vast majority of them are MDs.
I don't have the link but there was a study that apparently showed that DOs were more likely to subscribe to questionable practices compared to MDs.
Rand Paul seems like a class-A panderer. I'm all for civil liberties but yours end where mine begin.http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/politicsnow/la-pn-christie-vaccine-20150202-story.html
Rand Paul links vaccines to 'mental disorders'; Christie argues for 'choice'
... Paul, the Kentucky senator, stuck more consistently to his libertarian views. On a conservative radio program Monday morning, he said that he favors vaccines but that "most of them ought to be voluntary." Later, in an interview on CNBC, he upped the stakes, repeating that he saw the question as an "issue of freedom" then appearing to side with vaccine critics who have linked the shots to autism or other mental problems -- a position that has been repeatedly debunked and, in the case of autism, shown to be based on fraudulent research. "I think vaccines are one of the greatest medical breakthroughs that we have. I'm a big fan," Paul said. But then he quickly pivoted to criticism of government vaccination requirements. "I've heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking, normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines," he said. "I think the parents should have some input. The state doesn't own your children. Parents own the children, and it is an issue of freedom."
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/va...er_investigation_by_arizona_medical_board.php
Apparently he is "under investigation" by the Arizona Board of Osteopathic Examiners. If you feel strongly about this issue you should let the Board know it. Here's their website:
http://www.azdo.gov
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/va...er_investigation_by_arizona_medical_board.php
Apparently he is "under investigation" by the Arizona Board of Osteopathic Examiners. If you feel strongly about this issue you should let the Board know it. Here's their website:
http://www.azdo.gov
Sadly, this I can believe. Some of my DO colleagues, though I love them like family, are susceptible to some rather peculiar notions. My dear friend Dr KC, who I go to whenever I need some OMM, once tried to validate the efficacy of homeopathy, and proceeded to run through every bogus notion that adherents of pseudoscience throw out when they defend their pet notion, from quantum physics to the failings of allopathic medicine (as if the latter is a proof).
It's kind of like having an eccentric aunt, whom you're very fond of. You roll your eyes and just keep quiet. For some people, pseudoscience is a belief system.
It's a generic statement that effectively says "Vaccines are good". That's not the same as directly acknowledging and addressing the problem of DOs who are, in my opinion, committing professional misconduct by spreading false information about vaccination.
The article you linked to above has a link to a list of things he could be sanctioned for under Arizona law. If anyone is interested, here it is:
http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/32/01854.htm&Title=32&DocType=ARS
6. Engaging in the practice of medicine in a manner that harms or may harm a patient or that the board determines falls below the community standard.
…
11. Representing that a manifestly incurable disease, injury, ailment or infirmity can be permanently cured or that a curable disease, injury, ailment or infirmity can be cured within a stated time, if this is not true.
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15. Knowingly making any false or fraudulent statement, written or oral, in connection with the practice of medicine or when applying for or renewing privileges at a health care institution or a health care program.
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19. Any conduct or practice contrary to recognized standards of ethics of the osteopathic medical profession.
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38. Any conduct or practice that endangers a patient's or the public's health or may reasonably be expected to do so.
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44. Conduct that the board determines constitutes gross negligence, repeated negligence or negligence that results in harm or death of a patient.
Andrew Wakefield has been eviscerated by the medical and scientific community of the world. I don't know why anyone would think otherwise. I disagree that calling out any duplicitous physician, M.D. or D.O., constitutes "trolling".
Our representative organization, the AOA, should be denouncing quacks like him and Joe Mercola. Osteopathic physicians have historically been viewed as being less scientifically-minded in comparison to MDs and this does not help break that perception. Instead, in the midst of an historic resurgence in measles and other vaccine-preventable diseases, the AOA remains silent.
Yeah, I agree that we need to be careful. We need to protect society from quacks who are using their degree to give a false sense of legitimacy to their claims, but we also need to protect freedom of speech and freedom of thought. The idea of punishing anyone who dares to speak up against the establishment is kind of scary (even though the establishment is right on this issue.)All the aforementioned are idiots, but I'm against Arthur Caplan PhD of NYU telling the states what to do with their physicians. Who elected him the ethics king of medicine?
Yeah, I agree that we need to be careful. We need to protect society from quacks who are using their degree to give a false sense of legitimacy to their claims, but we also need to protect freedom of speech and freedom of thought. The idea of punishing anyone who dares to speak up against the establishment is kind of scary (even though the establishment is right on this issue.)
I'll be the first to admit that I'm not sure how to balance these competing ideals, but we need to try.
To be fair, there are plenty of MDs that spread dubious info, last I checked the AMA wasn't doing anything to them. .
After he influenced millions upon millions of people. Fantastic job
I predict zero inhibitory effect on Dr Oz or his bank account.