Hey it's Jet. I need some advice.

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and lastly...

"How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly."

25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one."

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and lastly...

“How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”


How do you know that he wasn't misquoted or honestly mistaken?
 
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I abandoned religion much like my son is attempting to abandon diapers. Personally, to me, it makes no sense and is counterproductive to our species survival. If I had to use an identifier to label myself, it would be Secular Humanism, and if you know anything about that, you know that it can be pretty vague. At the end of the day, I'm happy with me, my family, and my life on this world, and as long as your religion doesn't mess with that equilibrium, then have at it my friend. But how could one find fault with the commonly held basic tenets?

(borrowed from the wikipedia topic page)

Need to test beliefs – A conviction that dogmas, ideologies and traditions, whether religious, political or social, must be weighed and tested by each individual and not simply accepted by faith.

Reason, evidence, scientific method – A commitment to the use of critical reason, factual evidence and scientific methods of inquiry in seeking solutions to human problems and answers to important human questions.

Fulfillment, growth, creativity – A primary concern with fulfillment, growth and creativity for both the individual and humankind in general.

Search for truth – A constant search for objective truth, with the understanding that new knowledge and experience constantly alter our imperfect perception of it.

This life – A concern for this life (as opposed to an afterlife) and a commitment to making it meaningful through better understanding of ourselves, our history, our intellectual and artistic achievements, and the outlooks of those who differ from us.

Ethics – A search for viable individual, social and political principles of ethical conduct, judging them on their ability to enhance human well-being and individual responsibility.

Building a better world – A conviction that with reason, an open exchange of ideas, good will, and tolerance, progress can be made in building a better world for ourselves and our children.
 
The crucifixion bears witness to His declaration.

Why are Christians so enamored of the crucifixion. There is absolutely no power in it if there was no resurrection. Many men were crucified. Many went through equally horrible torture before crucifixion. Only one is said to have been raised from the dead afterwards.



- pod
 
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Why are Christians so enamored of the crucifixion. There is absolutely no power in it if there was no resurrection. Many men were crucified. Many went through equally horrible torture before crucifixion. Only one is said to have been raised from the dead afterwards.



- pod
Because he lived without sin and because we believe there was a ressurection.

John 8
46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life--only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again.
 
I don't think quoting the bible proves much.... and I believe in a higher power.
 
I don't think quoting the bible proves much.... and I believe in a higher power.

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts”
 
I made it page 4...then skipped ahead.

Here are my 19 cents (inflation...)

So if you do choose a religion, I think you need to find one that requires sacrifice - that requires work, not just words (helping build houses, cleaning up an old ladies yard, guiding you to make decision in your life that make changes that are not easy, etc). I think the thought that you find yourself by loosing yourself (giving unselfishly to help someone else) is a true principle - and a great path that leads to lasting spirituality. Self sacrifice is also a true principle to find spirituality - and you know that well. You don't get to be a great pilot, a succesful anesthesiologist, and a loving father, a healthy 45 y/o without sacrifice. It's a lot easier to eat the twinky then to skip it, and do 20 pullups.

I think 2 of the most spiritual books I have ever read (and they are way short) are Jonothan Livingston Seagull and Illusions, both by Richard Bach. Check 'em yo!
 
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Holy Jesus Batman!! (not mocking Jesus guys, just sayin that one dude seems a little over the top with his Bible quotes)

The thread is a question about God and the OP asked if Jesus was the Son of God. If the Bible is God's word, then I don't see how quoting it in reference to the questions could be "over the top".

At the same time, I understand how you could think that.

I would think it was over the top if I didn't believe it was God's word or that Jesus was the Son of God. The Bible is either a huge farce involving over 2 billion followers of Christ or God's inspired word.
 
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The thread is a question about God and the OP asked if Jesus was the Son of God. If the Bible is God's word, then I don't see how quoting it in reference to the questions could be "over the top".

At the same time, I understand how you could think that.

I would think it was over the top if I didn't believe it was God's word or that Jesus was the Son of God. The Bible is either a huge farce involving over 2 billion followers of Christ or God's inspired word.

I appreciate your efforts.

So many ways to go with this.

I'll pick one:

The Pentecostal religion, a Christian faith, takes the bible literally.

At least that's my understanding. Are you Pentecostal?

Back in my bodybuilding days, one of my closest FREAK colleagues was Pentecostal. He took the bible literally.

1) Do you take the bible literally?

2) I believe in a Higher Power. Just not sure who That Dude is.

3) My current feeling is my Jew homies have it figured out...they believe in God..no son of God that emerges in human form necessary....that being said, I was brought up Christian...

The Jesus story is so intriguing...


Geez I dunno.

Kinda lost.

Shooting from the hip we all believe what we believe, and hopefully we'll live a life of peace and happiness, and since this is an anesthesia forum I hope all you dudes/dudettes blossom into this GREAT PROFESSION WE SHARE,

I dunno about this whole FAITH thing.....why Christians swear they're right, why Jews believe what they believe, why Hindus believe what they believe, why atheists think all the above are CERTIFIABLE....

I dunno.

Guess what I DO KNOW:

I get to wake up tomorrow and go to work at our physician owned Taj Majal hospital where doctors are happy and patients are

ECSTATIC.


I'll awaken before my alarm sounds.

I'll continue my finite human life. I'll continue to be thankful for every day, the happiness I feel, the joy I feel for where I am professionally, the pride I feel for my children, the ability to be an intimate figure in my children's lives.....

I'll still ask. The question hasn't been answered yet in my mind:

Who is my God?

Not sure.

The Jewish-understood God?

The Christian God?

The Hindu God?

Medicine sequesters some of the BRIGHTEST MO FOS ON THE PLANET. And yet we all are drawn to different religions. Not sure I'm capable of understanding that.

Again, I'm appreciative of all the responses.
 
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The thread is a question about God and the OP asked if Jesus was the Son of God. If the Bible is God's word, then I don't see how quoting it in reference to the questions could be "over the top".

At the same time, I understand how you could think that.

I would think it was over the top if I didn't believe it was God's word or that Jesus was the Son of God. The Bible is either a huge farce involving over 2 billion followers of Christ or God's inspired word.

O.k. Point taken.
 
I think most of us just take on the religion of our parents. I don't think there is such thing as the right religion. Even though I've been taught to think that...
 
c ya, keep doin what your doin Jack is Back, you have it figured out, wish I did...I will one day...
 
Now that some dude is quoting a 2000 year old fairy tale book in big bold font without even bothering to frame the quote with original thought I suppose this thread has jumped the shark. So I will sign off with this.

I was never so happy as I have been since the day that I realized that I am not a sinner.

- pod
 
I will try to make this my last post on this thread. I hope that the portion of quoted from God's word is read and understood, my own words are open to flaw, pride, and so many other things that God's word isn't subject to.
c ya, keep doin what your doin Jack is Back, you have it figured out, wish I did...I will one day...
What I have figured out was directly from Christ's or God's words. So if anything, I've just stumbled onto the truth.

Now that some dude is quoting a 2000 year old fairy tale book in big bold font without even bothering to frame the quote with original thought I suppose this thread has jumped the shark. So I will sign off with this.

I was never so happy as I have been since the day that I realized that I am not a sinner.

- pod

The reason I've quoted more than speaking is because God's words are greater than my own.

Good luck to you.

I appreciate your efforts.

So many ways to go with this.

I'll pick one:

The Pentecostal religion, a Christian faith, takes the bible literally.

At least that's my understanding. Are you Pentecostal?

Back in my bodybuilding days, one of my closest FREAK colleagues was Pentecostal. He took the bible literally.

1) Do you take the bible literally?

2) I believe in a Higher Power. Just not sure who That Dude is.

3) My current feeling is my Jew homies have it figured out...they believe in God..no son of God that emerges in human form necessary....that being said, I was brought up Christian...

The Jesus story is so intriguing...


Geez I dunno.

Kinda lost.

Shooting from the hip we all believe what we believe, and hopefully we'll live a life of peace and happiness, and since this is an anesthesia forum I hope all you dudes/dudettes blossom into this GREAT PROFESSION WE SHARE,

I dunno about this whole FAITH thing.....why Christians swear they're right, why Jews believe what they believe, why Hindus believe what they believe, why atheists think all the above are CERTIFIABLE....

I dunno.

Guess what I DO KNOW:

I get to wake up tomorrow and go to work at our physician owned Taj Majal hospital where doctors are happy and patients are

ECSTATIC.


I'll awaken before my alarm sounds.

I'll continue my finite human life. I'll continue to be thankful for every day, the happiness I feel, the joy I feel for where I am professionally, the pride I feel for my children, the ability to be an intimate figure in my children's lives.....

I'll still ask. The question hasn't been answered yet in my mind:

Who is my God?

Not sure.

The Jewish-understood God?

The Christian God?

The Hindu God?

Medicine sequesters some of the BRIGHTEST MO FOS ON THE PLANET. And yet we all are drawn to different religions. Not sure I'm capable of understanding that.

Again, I'm appreciative of all the responses.

I'll try to answer each of your questions, yet again I am just a man, and to reference the verse above, God's thoughts and his understanding is much higher than mine. Hence you will see me trying to quote God as much as I can.

1) Do you take the bible literally?
I think the Bible is true. Do I believe the earth was created in "7 days" or other things that science vs religion get hung up on? No. I believe the Bible is God's word and is here to teach us how to live. Not every story is meant to be literal.

2) I believe in a Higher Power. Just not sure who That Dude is.

The Jewish-understood God?

The Christian God?

The Hindu God?
There is only one God. The Jewish God is the same God as the Christian God. Jesus was Jewish. The God of Abraham is the same God that Jesus claimed to be the Son of.

3) My current feeling is my Jew homies have it figured out...they believe in God..no son of God that emerges in human form necessary....that being said, I was brought up Christian...
The Bible says things much better than I ever could. The Jews argued with Jesus before about his illegitimacy as the Son of God.
39 They answered him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you were Abraham's children, you would be doing the works Abraham did, 40 but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did. 41 You are doing the works your father did." They said to him, "We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father—even God." 42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word.
The Jesus story is so intriguing...
The Jesus story is intriguing only because he is the Son of God. How would a man who started a 3 year ministry 2000 years ago stack up over 2 billion followers today? Was he a lunatic that made claims of being the Son of God yet a great moral teacher? Or was he who he said he was...

Others will claim that a whole bunch of liars got together to write false claims about Jesus. Mind you, these individuals, like the apostle Paul, lived in poverty and were tortured, killed, crucified to put out the word or the gospel. Don't think Joel Osteen like today, these guys didn't get any money, fame, sex, etc. from being Christians, they suffered greatly. Read Paul's words...

with far greater labors, far more imprisonments, with countless beatings, and often near death. 24 Five times I received at the hands of the Jews the forty lashes less one. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods. Once I was stoned. Three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I was adrift at sea; 26 on frequent journeys, in danger from rivers, danger from robbers, danger from my own people, danger from Gentiles, danger in the city, danger in the wilderness, danger at sea, danger from false brothers; 27 in toil and hardship, through many a sleepless night, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure. 28 And, apart from other things, there is the daily pressure on me of my anxiety for all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to fall, and I am not indignant?
Doesn't sound like a lot of fun if you wanted to create a false religion...

Paul knew somewhere around 500 people who had seen Jesus risen from the dead. Not that had heard, but had seen. Early Christians also faced a lot of persecution and were put to death for their beliefs. How does this man who started a 3 year ministry in Rome, the most powerful city in the world that completely hostile to the religion, somehow build up enough followers that they would eventually overtake the government and become the epicenter of Christianity for centuries afterwards (Roman Catholics). Think about that for a moment.

Could a crazy person or a group of crafty liars pull off this sort of thing?
____________________
12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
I dunno about this whole FAITH thing.....why Christians swear they're right, why Jews believe what they believe, why Hindus believe what they believe, why atheists think all the above are CERTIFIABLE....
I don't swear I'm right, but I do believe in God. And I do believe that Jesus Christ was who he said he was. That's it. Everything follows those two beliefs. When I read that there was a serpent talking in Genesis, I think, that sounds really dumb but after all is said and done, I believe Jesus was the Son of God. It's that simple.

Who is my God?
We all have to make this decision. It basically boils down to chosing ourselves or God. There is only one God. I would bet my existence on it.

I will leave you with a few quotes from the man who claimed to be the Son of God. Decide for yourself if he was a liar, a lunatic, or who he said he was.

36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" 37 And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets."
Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
12 "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.
31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?' 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'
"If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
Good luck Jet.

I think most of us just take on the religion of our parents. I don't think there is such thing as the right religion. Even though I've been taught to think that...
"I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him."

Unfortunately Jesus didn't leave this option for us. He is either dead wrong or right, but if he was right then his words are pretty clear. Good luck.
 
I think the Bible is true. Do I believe the earth was created in "7 days" or other things that science vs religion get hung up on? No. I believe the Bible is God's word and is here to teach us how to live. Not every story is meant to be literal.

Then how are we to know what is to be taken literally and what is not. Perhaps it is entirely allegorical. Or is it left to every man to interpret what is right in his own mind's eye (as quickened by the holy spirit of course ;))?


The Jesus story is intriguing only because he is the Son of God. How would a man who started a 3 year ministry 2000 years ago stack up over 2 billion followers today?

Muhammed (who I assume you would agree was no more than a man) has amassed even more followers in 3/4ths the time, and he didn't even have to claim to be the son of god to do this.


Mind you, these individuals, like the apostle Paul, lived in poverty and were tortured, killed, crucified to put out the word or the gospel... they suffered greatly. Doesn't sound like a lot of fun if you wanted to create a false religion...

Much like the early Muslims. Being so convinced of something that you are willing to be tortured and die for it doesn't make it true.

- pod
 
Then how are we to know what is to be taken literally and what is not. Perhaps it is entirely allegorical. Or is it left to every man to interpret what is right in his own mind's eye (as quickened by the holy spirit of course ;))?
I could be wrong, who knows. It could be entirely allegorical. I really don't know. All I know is that I believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God. Everything centers around that belief and whatever details I have right or wrong aren't really that important to me.

Muhammed (who I assume you would agree was no more than a man) has amassed even more followers in 3/4ths the time, and he didn't even have to claim to be the son of god to do this.
Still, there is something different about Christ. He claimed to be the Son of God and was ressurected. This makes him unique.

Much like the early Muslims. Being so convinced of something that you are willing to be tortured and die for it doesn't make it true.

- pod
You are right again. I judge the veracity of it by reading it for myself instead of one of my arguments.

The Sermon on the Mount

5:1 Seeing the crowds, he went up on the mountain, and when he sat down, his disciples came to him.
The Beatitudes

2 And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying:
3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 "Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5 "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
6 "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
7 "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
8 "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
9 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons [1] of God.
10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 "Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Salt and Light

13 "You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people's feet.
14 "You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.
Christ Came to Fulfill the Law

17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Anger

21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.' 22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother [2] will be liable to judgment; whoever insults [3] his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!' will be liable to the hell [4] of fire. 23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison. 26 Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny. [5]
Lust

27 "You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.' 28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.
Divorce

31 "It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.' 32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
Oaths

33 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.' 34 But I say to you, Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 And do not take an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 Let what you say be simply ‘Yes' or ‘No'; anything more than this comes from evil. [6]
Retaliation

38 "You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' 39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, [7] let him have your cloak as well. 41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.
Love Your Enemies

43 "You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, [8] what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Giving to the Needy

6:1 "Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.
2 "Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
The Lord's Prayer

5 "And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
7 "And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. 9 Pray then like this:
"Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name. [9]
10 Your kingdom come,
your will be done, [10]
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread, [11]
12 and forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. [12]

14 For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, 15 but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Fasting

16 "And when you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 17 But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18 that your fasting may not be seen by others but by your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
Lay Up Treasures in Heaven

19 "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust [13] destroy and where thieves break in and steal, 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
22 "The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light, 23 but if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!
24 "No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money. [14]
Do Not Be Anxious

25 "Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life? [15] 28 And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, 29 yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31 Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?' or ‘What shall we drink?' or ‘What shall we wear?' 32 For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
34 "Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
Judging Others

7:1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
6 "Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.
Ask, and It Will Be Given

7 "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. 9 Or which one of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? 11 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!
The Golden Rule

12 "So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
13 "Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy [16] that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
A Tree and Its Fruit

15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
I Never Knew You

21 "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'
Build Your House on the Rock

24 "Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it."
The Authority of Jesus

28 And when Jesus finished these sayings, the crowds were astonished at his teaching, 29 for he was teaching them as one who had authority, and not as their scribes.
 
I could be wrong, who knows. It could be entirely allegorical. I really don't know. All I know is that I believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God. Everything centers around that belief and whatever details I have right or wrong aren't really that important to me.

Still, there is something different about Christ. He claimed to be the Son of God and was ressurected. This makes him unique.

You are right again. I judge the veracity of it by reading it for myself instead of one of my arguments.

The question remains for all of us agnostics and atheists:

WHY do you believe what you believe?

We just don't understand. The question is asked not to challenge or belittle but to try to understand faith. Please respond without quoting scripture.
 
The question remains for all of us agnostics and atheists:

WHY do you believe what you believe?

We just don't understand. The question is asked not to challenge or belittle but to try to understand faith. Please respond without quoting scripture.

It is simple. After reading the book of John, Matthew, Mark, and Luke I believe the person Jesus Christ to be the Son of God.

Why? Based on his words and his actions, the person he was. This is why you see me quoting the Bible often, because it is the reason for my belief. I also have experienced the Holy Spirit, who Jesus spoke about as a counselor. I have seen my desires move from wanting money and to constantly please myself, to wanting to serve people who have little. I have experienced change. Not in efforts to get something for myself, but because of God's spirit. It's almost intangible and hard to describe. At one time I wanted to have a million dollars in the bank, now I would rather serve a million poor people by the time I die, that's a difference. Again, the motivation isn't trying to earn a salvation or out of duty but out of a renewing of my spirit.

I've seen God change my words and my actions. I do not claim to be a saint, because if anything I've done as much or more bad than anyone. But Christ gives forgiveness of our sins and because of this, we have freedom to live as we chose which is governed by our renewed spirit.

Listen, I am not hostile towards anyone. I can understand how others may not believe or that they will not understand why I would believe he is the Son of God. At the same time, I would plead with you to read and experience God yourself.

Have you read the Gospel or one of the books of the Gospel (this would be Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John).

13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” 14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven."
 
I could be wrong, who knows. It could be entirely allegorical. I really don't know. All I know is that I believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God. Everything centers around that belief and whatever details I have right or wrong aren't really that important to me.

I am totally cool with that and glad to see your honest take on it.

A key step in my conversion from Christianity was when I accepted the truth that I could not know which parts of the Bible are factual (if any) and which parts are allegorical. And yes, I have read the entire thing many, many times and spent three years specifically studying it in great detail at the undergraduate level.

I wish all Christians could be that reasonable and honest instead of insisting that the Bible gives us some proof of its own veracity despite the fact that it can't all be true, or trying to convince me that there is evidence for the existence of the Christian God. I am open to evidence if it exists and someone can show it to me, but it annoys me when people try to peddle old, long disproved arguments as novel proofs.



Still, there is something different about Christ. He claimed to be the Son of God (and a large group of individuals believe/ believed his claim and believe that he was resurrected)... This makes him unique.

Edited for truth as many have claimed to be the son of god, they just lack the followers. However, we have to take the resurrected part on faith and without the resurrection there is nothing to Christianity. Faith is easier for some than for others.

- pod
 
This has been a great discussion, I enjoyed many of the posts.

Jet, you want the truth, and asked "who is my god."
Thus, I take it you believe there is a god. And you want to know which faith is correct, or has it right. You tend to be leaning towards one faith, judaism, believing they got it right. Your original post, you stated you were missing spirtituality. I think from many of the posts you can see that one does not have to believe in a certain faith to be spiritual. I myself do not believe in any of the faiths out there. But I do consider myself spiritual.

Jet let me ask you this, what does it mean to be spiritual to you? I dont want to assume anything from your post on what your meaning of it is. I would like to hear it in your own words. The perspective I got was that being spiritual for you means believing in a god, and your having trouble finding which is the right god or faith to follow. But just following a certain faith might not answer what your missing. (spirituality) Many people are religious, but are not spirtiual. These are two entirely different words thus with different meanings.

Going to a church/mosque/temple once a week, preaching from a certain book, and interacting with others from the same faith doesnt necessarily make you more spiritual. It does make you feel more belonged and a part of a society. But if people find peace from this, then by all means, its alrite. People have different ways of finding inner-peace, and if believing in a certain faith answers the big questions of why were here, and whats gonna happen after you die, and if this give you a peace of mind, then I do endorse it.

For me personally, none of the faiths truly make sense to me. And I refuse to believe in something that doesnt make sense to me. To me, being spiritual means being at peace with myself, and understanding the decisions/actions I've made throughout my life, and learning from the mistakes. It means having compassion for my family and friends, and the random people you meet along the journey of life. It means trying to make the world a better place. Spirituality to me is being at peace within my spirit. I find peace in not believing in any of the faiths. But others need faith or religion. I am not saying not believing in a god or believing in a god is better. Whatever works for you. I hope you find what your looking for buddy.

Just my two cents.
 
I am totally cool with that and glad to see your honest take on it.

A key step in my conversion from Christianity was when I accepted the truth that I could not know which parts of the Bible are factual (if any) and which parts are allegorical. And yes, I have read the entire thing many, many times and spent three years specifically studying it in great detail at the undergraduate level.

I wish all Christians could be that reasonable and honest instead of insisting that the Bible gives us some proof of its own veracity despite the fact that it can't all be true, or trying to convince me that there is evidence for the existence of the Christian God. I am open to evidence if it exists and someone can show it to me, but it annoys me when people try to peddle old, long disproved arguments as novel proofs.





Edited for truth as many have claimed to be the son of god, they just lack the followers. However, we have to take the resurrected part on faith and without the resurrection there is nothing to Christianity. Faith is easier for some than for others.

- pod

If you really want to find more - go to Mount Athos my friend.....and you'll find!
2win
 
This has been a great discussion, I enjoyed many of the posts.

Jet, you want the truth, and asked "who is my god."
Thus, I take it you believe there is a god. And you want to know which faith is correct, or has it right. You tend to be leaning towards one faith, judaism, believing they got it right. Your original post, you stated you were missing spirtituality. I think from many of the posts you can see that one does not have to believe in a certain faith to be spiritual. I myself do not believe in any of the faiths out there. But I do consider myself spiritual.

Jet let me ask you this, what does it mean to be spiritual to you? I dont want to assume anything from your post on what your meaning of it is. I would like to hear it in your own words. The perspective I got was that being spiritual for you means believing in a god, and your having trouble finding which is the right god or faith to follow. But just following a certain faith might not answer what your missing. (spirituality) Many people are religious, but are not spirtiual. These are two entirely different words thus with different meanings.

Going to a church/mosque/temple once a week, preaching from a certain book, and interacting with others from the same faith doesnt necessarily make you more spiritual. It does make you feel more belonged and a part of a society. But if people find peace from this, then by all means, its alrite. People have different ways of finding inner-peace, and if believing in a certain faith answers the big questions of why were here, and whats gonna happen after you die, and if this give you a peace of mind, then I do endorse it.

For me personally, none of the faiths truly make sense to me. And I refuse to believe in something that doesnt make sense to me. To me, being spiritual means being at peace with myself, and understanding the decisions/actions I've made throughout my life, and learning from the mistakes. It means having compassion for my family and friends, and the random people you meet along the journey of life. It means trying to make the world a better place. Spirituality to me is being at peace within my spirit. I find peace in not believing in any of the faiths. But others need faith or religion. I am not saying not believing in a god or believing in a god is better. Whatever works for you. I hope you find what your looking for buddy.

Just my two cents.

Thank you. :thumbup:
 
Grandioise thinking? Check.

Charlie sheen like behavior ? Check.

Winning!
 
The question remains for all of us agnostics and atheists:

WHY do you believe what you believe?

We just don't understand. The question is asked not to challenge or belittle but to try to understand faith. Please respond without quoting scripture.

I believe what I believe because I have seen the power of Christ work right in front of my eyes. I said it earlier in this thread but it was in the middle of some other discussion and was overlooked. I have seen transformations occur right in front of my face, with strangers, friends, family, and myself.

When my life shifts in focus, and my family is more Christ centered, things just flow. When life gets busy and I have less time to read my Bible and my prayer life falters, I notice all aspects of my life and the life of my family begins to suffer also.
 
The ancient Middle-Eastern religions, from Judaism onward, have one major focus: HAVE MORE KIDS SO THAT WE HAVE MORE SOLDIERS.

You can't have a strong tribe, a massive army, or a well-defended country without soldiers, willing to die for their religion, who have been entrenched in the holy doctrine since birth.
 
The ancient Middle-Eastern religions, from Judaism onward, have one major focus: HAVE MORE KIDS SO THAT WE HAVE MORE SOLDIERS.

You can't have a strong tribe, a massive army, or a well-defended country without soldiers, willing to die for their religion, who have been entrenched in the holy doctrine since birth.

Yet orthodox Jews are excused from required military service in Israel (although they are free to volunteer), and they otherwise do civilian service. The average orthodox Jewish family in Israel has around 4 kids, whereas the non-orthodox has about 1.
 
Yet orthodox Jews are excused from required military service in Israel (although they are free to volunteer), and they otherwise do civilian service. The average orthodox Jewish family in Israel has around 4 kids, whereas the non-orthodox has about 1.

We do live in a more civilized world than that of prior millennia, so the need for cannon-fodder is slightly less nowadays.
 
We do live in a more civilized world than that of prior millennia, so the need for cannon-fodder is slightly less nowadays.

Really? We do?
I don't believe so .....
We are not more "civilized" - - - we think so though....
2win
 
I believe what I believe because I have seen the power of Christ work right in front of my eyes.

Yeah dude, I'm with you.

I've experienced, more than once during my tenure, situations where it is
OBVIOUS

a Higher Power is at work.

OHHH....BUT...HEY....

MY INNER CIRCLE HAS A FEW JEWS.

Which leaves me,

SERIOUSLY MAN.

I WANNA BELIEVE THE

JESUS THING.

BUT IF

I BELIEVE IN CHRIST, THAT MEANS MY JEW FRIENDS

HAVE MISSED THE BOAT!!!

(which is unlikely)


CATCH TWENTY TWO, MAN.
 
Really? We do?
I don't believe so .....
We are not more "civilized" - - - we think so though....
2win


Sure, the world is more civilized now. The degree to which it has become more civil is another story altogether...
 
Yeah dude, I'm with you.

I've experienced, more than once during my tenure, situations where it is
OBVIOUS

a Higher Power is at work.

OHHH....BUT...HEY....

MY INNER CIRCLE HAS A FEW JEWS.

Which leaves me,

SERIOUSLY MAN.

I WANNA BELIEVE THE

JESUS THING.

BUT IF

I BELIEVE IN CHRIST, THAT MEANS MY JEW FRIENDS

HAVE MISSED THE BOAT!!!

(which is unlikely)


CATCH TWENTY TWO, MAN.


According to the New Testament, even if one were to not believe in Jesus throughout life, their position in the afterlife would not be affected if they were to live in a righteous way. Remember, Jesus forgives all.

So I wouldn't worry about your Jewish brothas. If they're right and you're not, I'm sure you'll be ok anyway. If you're right and they're not, they'll be fine. And if you're both wrong or right, then who cares - nothing you can do about any of it.

The wonderful thing about faith is that it is personal. Even if you lean on faith to be part of a community, your beliefs in the unknown are yours and yours alone.

So don't sweat it.
 
Yeah dude, I'm with you.

I've experienced, more than once during my tenure, situations where it is
OBVIOUS

a Higher Power is at work.

OHHH....BUT...HEY....

MY INNER CIRCLE HAS A FEW JEWS.

Which leaves me,

SERIOUSLY MAN.

I WANNA BELIEVE THE

JESUS THING.

BUT IF

I BELIEVE IN CHRIST, THAT MEANS MY JEW FRIENDS

HAVE MISSED THE BOAT!!!

(which is unlikely)


CATCH TWENTY TWO, MAN.


Jet brother, I'm not going to lie to you and pretend I have the answer for all of your questions, but this is scenario is one that is particularly troubling to me as well. I wish I could tell you some big long explanation, but I cannot.
 
I don't mean to be the skeptic in the room, but I took a class in undergrad about religion and some of the things the prof said has stuck with me. First, some tidbits about me......I was raised Christian, like pretty hardcore. I never felt the overflowing "spirit" within me or the need/desire to spread "the word". I do however believe there IS a God. As far as who or what religion is "right" I can not say. At this point I feel it is an internal "compass" if you will but thats about all I feel at this point.

To the paraphrased ideas that came from my undergrad course:

"religion is just an organized system to answer the unanswerable questions", this is why EVERY civilization that has ever been found has SOME FORM of religion/higher power. It helps to answer questions and provide that which cannot be explained. Religion develops in society because it is an innate need/drive of the human psyche.

With that said, I believe that if I live my life "correctly"(i have no real definition of that and it is obviously up to incredible personal interpretation) and do no harm to my fellow man, WHOEVER or WHATEVER awaits us in the afterlife (if there is one) will not/cannot fault us for not believing in THEM specifically, and as such we shall see our "salvation". I refuse to believe that if I were to truly believe in JESUS/Buddha etc and live my life in accordance with his teachings but upon death meet some other GOD that they will spite me for the personal slight towards them as an obviously imperfect and unknowing HUMAN without the capacity of true knowledge. In short live your life in a manner that makes YOUR internal compass happy and it will all work out in the end.
 
I don't mean to be the skeptic in the room, but I took a class in undergrad about religion and some of the things the prof said has stuck with me. First, some tidbits about me......I was raised Christian, like pretty hardcore. I never felt the overflowing "spirit" within me or the need/desire to spread "the word". I do however believe there IS a God. As far as who or what religion is "right" I can not say. At this point I feel it is an internal "compass" if you will but thats about all I feel at this point.

To the paraphrased ideas that came from my undergrad course:

"religion is just an organized system to answer the unanswerable questions", this is why EVERY civilization that has ever been found has SOME FORM of religion/higher power. It helps to answer questions and provide that which cannot be explained. Religion develops in society because it is an innate need/drive of the human psyche.

With that said, I believe that if I live my life "correctly"(i have no real definition of that and it is obviously up to incredible personal interpretation) and do no harm to my fellow man, WHOEVER or WHATEVER awaits us in the afterlife (if there is one) will not/cannot fault us for not believing in THEM specifically, and as such we shall see our "salvation". I refuse to believe that if I were to truly believe in JESUS/Buddha etc and live my life in accordance with his teachings but upon death meet some other GOD that they will spite me for the personal slight towards them as an obviously imperfect and unknowing HUMAN without the capacity of true knowledge. In short live your life in a manner that makes YOUR internal compass happy and it will all work out in the end.

Dude,

That was very well said. Thanks for sharing.:thumbup:
 
I don't mean to be the skeptic in the room, but I took a class in undergrad about religion and some of the things the prof said has stuck with me. First, some tidbits about me......I was raised Christian, like pretty hardcore. I never felt the overflowing "spirit" within me or the need/desire to spread "the word". I do however believe there IS a God. As far as who or what religion is "right" I can not say. At this point I feel it is an internal "compass" if you will but thats about all I feel at this point.

To the paraphrased ideas that came from my undergrad course:

"religion is just an organized system to answer the unanswerable questions", this is why EVERY civilization that has ever been found has SOME FORM of religion/higher power. It helps to answer questions and provide that which cannot be explained. Religion develops in society because it is an innate need/drive of the human psyche.

With that said, I believe that if I live my life "correctly"(i have no real definition of that and it is obviously up to incredible personal interpretation) and do no harm to my fellow man, WHOEVER or WHATEVER awaits us in the afterlife (if there is one) will not/cannot fault us for not believing in THEM specifically, and as such we shall see our "salvation". I refuse to believe that if I were to truly believe in JESUS/Buddha etc and live my life in accordance with his teachings but upon death meet some other GOD that they will spite me for the personal slight towards them as an obviously imperfect and unknowing HUMAN without the capacity of true knowledge. In short live your life in a manner that makes YOUR internal compass happy and it will all work out in the end.

The problem with this philosophy is that it is based upon relativity. In the end, something will be right and something else will be wrong which supercedes each person's moral compass. By this philosophy, you could understand that every man's moral compass could be slightly different, and not every one of those men are "good".

Almost every person on earth thinks they are doing the best they can under their circumstances. Few people really believe they are really bad morally.

Things don't always work out in the end. They only work out if you were following the right path. We understand this idea in everything, in achieving goals or results, we know that certain things yield results, regardless of the idea that everything will work out in the end.

Who doesn't think everything will work out in the end? Honestly, I think if we asked Hitler if it all would have worked out in the end when he was 25, he would have said yes.
 
The problem with this philosophy is that it is based upon relativity. In the end, something will be right and something else will be wrong which supercedes each person's moral compass. By this philosophy, you could understand that every man's moral compass could be slightly different, and not every one of those men are "good".

Almost every person on earth thinks they are doing the best they can under their circumstances. Few people really believe they are really bad morally.

Things don't always work out in the end. They only work out if you were following the right path. We understand this idea in everything, in achieving goals or results, we know that certain things yield results, regardless of the idea that everything will work out in the end.

Who doesn't think everything will work out in the end? Honestly, I think if we asked Hitler if it all would have worked out in the end when he was 25, he would have said yes.

Ummmmmmmmmmm,

HUH?:laugh:


Your response is esoteric and does not detract from Per4's post.

Take another bong hit and try again dude.
 
First of all; To Jet, i'm glad to supply some input that in even a small way helps. As a loooooong time lurker here your posts have been amazingly helpful and enlightening from a general life's point of view standpoint as well as advice in regards to reaching my goal in Anesthesia (of which I'm getting close to this year.....come on interviews, keep em coming)

Second, obviously the psychological/philosophical arguments to my post (what defines "right", the variability of ones moral compass, and who's to say "my" right is MORE/LESS godly than your "right"?) But with those points agreeably conceded I believe there are obvious rights/wrongs and no one would argue that Hitler was doing right, regardless of what his internal thoughts were (I also understand that this was an extreme example you gave in attempts to make your point.) Surely there is a huge gray area.

Regardless I remain fixed on my opinion/disbelief that for example if the Pope dies and gets to the afterlife and meets "God" that God would say, "sorry buddy but Mormon was the way to go, go meet Satan". I can't believe that possible.

In closing, in regards to doing what you consider RIGHT, a quote from a "great philosopher" : If this is heaven to me is this considered heavenly?
 
Last edited:
First of all; To Jet, i'm glad to supply some input that in even a small way helps. As a loooooong time lurker here your posts have been amazingly helpful and enlightening from a general life's point of view standpoint as well as advice in regards to reaching my goal in Anesthesia (of which I'm getting close to this year.....come on interviews, keep em coming)

Second, obviously the psychological/philosophical arguments to my post (what defines "right", the variability of ones moral compass, and who's to say "my" right is MORE/LESS godly than your "right"?) But with those points agreeably conceded I believe there are obvious rights/wrongs and no one would argue that Hitler was doing right, regardless of what his internal thoughts were (I also understand that this was an extreme example you gave in attempts to make your point.) Surely there is a huge gray area.

Regardless I remain fixed on my opinion/disbelief that for example if the Pope dies and gets to the afterlife and meets "God" that God would say, "sorry buddy but Mormon was the way to go, go meet Satan". I can't believe that possible.

In closing, in regards to doing what you consider RIGHT, a quote from a "great philosopher" : If this is heaven to me is this considered heavenly?

Thanks for the kind words man.

Keep us posted on your progress.

If you match in anesthesia you won't regret your choice. I guarantee it.

And keep your posts coming.

I have alot to learn from you.:thumbup:
 
Thanks for the kind words man.

Keep us posted on your progress.

If you match in anesthesia you won't regret your choice. I guarantee it.

And keep your posts coming.

I have alot to learn from you.:thumbup:

Will do. However I'd like to point out a typo in your post..... you wrote "if I match" when that sentence definitely called for a "when". It's alright, even ROKKSTARS hit a few wrong keys in a row.:laugh:
 
Will do. However I'd like to point out a typo in your post..... you wrote "if I match" when that sentence definitely called for a "when". It's alright, even ROKKSTARS hit a few wrong keys in a row.:laugh:

:laugh:

Point taken dude.

My bad!!!!

KEEP IT ROLLING.
 
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