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JohnUNLV

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Well we got the letter from ACPE and we will NOT be having an on-site visit. The letter was very short and just said that our application was incomplete or some crap. So basically we played ro-sham-boe and ACPE went first :laugh: (for those of you that dont know, roshamboe is taking turns kicking each other in the juevos).

Dean Bhagavan said he talked to the president of ACPE and they know exactly what they have to do and we will be reapplying in June of 2005. We will get a letter 2-4 weeks from then notifying us of an on-site visit, or another rejection. If they do visit, they will come some time in October or November and we will find out about candidate status sometime in either December or January 2006.

I hope this doesn't make anyone happy because we are certainly not pleased. They told us that it is extremely difficult to get an on-site on the first try when you are a start-up stand alone school like HICP, I dont know how true that is, but thats what they told us.

In addition, most students will have to work weekends, during breaks, overtime, double shifts and in the summer to meet their hours for different state boards. This is difficult, but not impossible.

John
 

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JohnHICP said:
They told us that it is extremely difficult to get an on-site on the first try when you are a start-up stand alone school like HICP, I dont know how true that is, but thats what they told us.
I am sure that many feathers were ruffled for the fact HICP accepted a class, hired a dean, started a class (of over 200 students no less), and then decided to get ACPE involved. My school applied and got the interview on the first attempt for an onsite interview. (We are a for profit school) I would take what they said with a grain of salt and make your own judgement. I'm sure things will work out in the end.
 

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Well, its a risk you take applying for a school with no accredation status whatsoever. Unfortunately, so far the risk has not panned out and the students are stuck with the repercussions. Just curious, but what will you do if they are finally accredited, but they require the students to retake the classes after they have been approved? I can see that happening...from what I understand, a big part of the accredation status results from approval of the curriculum. I imagine that is why every other school has obtained pre-canditate status before the induction of their first class. I would really hate to take that kind of risk, but good luck to you :)
 

ultracet

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That really sucks John.
While yes that is a risk you take when you apply to a non-accredited school there are many on here whose schools are not yet accredited. I realize that your school is different than others but stil...
After all, mine is going up for reaccrediation this April (our onsite visit) and while yes we all expect to be reaccredited you never know what could happen.

I certainly would be extremely suprised if something like that happened even knowing that it was a possiblity.

How many hours does hawaii require to take the NAPLEX?
 

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USN also got it on the 1st try. I'm surprised HICP didn't given they seem to have copied everything from USN.
 
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MutantClone said:
USN also got it on the 1st try. I'm surprised HICP didn't given they seem to have copied everything from USN.
Originally the schools were almost identical, but they are actually completely different now. No block system. 4 different classes to attend. No tests every single friday, but different tests throughout.

Lets just hope we get an on-site this coming June. =\

John
 

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John & the rest of the annonamyous HICP students that visit SDN,

The following article is something that was posted else where on the forum, but I thought it would do good for you guys to read it. The proposed Texas A&M pharmacy school was set to open this August, but ACPE has delayed that action. The following is a detailed response to the delay, and may give you a more accurate description as to what is going on with ACPE and what they are looking for to give you candidate status.

First class for College of Pharmacy to be admitted in Fall 2006


KINGSVILLE (January 31, 2005) — In accordance with a recommendation from the Accreditation Council for Pharmacy Education (ACPE) Board, Texas A&M University-Kingsville will now be admitting its first class of students for the Irma Rangel College of Pharmacy in Fall 2006.


The first class had been scheduled to be admitted in Fall 2005.


On January 15, the ACPE Board reviewed A&M-Kingsville’s detailed proposal and progress report on the pharmacy program, commending the university on overall plans and programmatic development thus far. However, the board felt that additional time is needed to fully execute all plans for a quality and sound professional program.


In their written response to Dr. Kay Clayton, provost and vice president for academic affairs, the ACPE Board noted that delaying the admission of students would enable Irma Rangel College of Pharmacy dean Dr. Indra Reddy to hire key personnel and obtain other resources required to support the program. Most importantly, securing adequate and continued funding is critical to the program’s development and success.


The ACPE Board also recommended that deans for new pharmacy programs be on board at least two years prior to the start date to allow time for programmatic development. Reddy came on board less than a year ago.


Dr. Rumaldo Z. Juarez, president of Texas A&M-Kingsville, said, “We concur with the ACPE Board’s recommendation to delay the site visit to Fall 2005. This will enable us to fully implement our plans and meet all the accreditation standards required for the pre-accreditation status. Delaying the admission of students will allow us to build a top quality program and avoid some of the pitfalls of moving too quickly. We are disappointed with the delay but definitely not discouraged. We understand that the development of a professional program requires adequate time and resources. We knew that we had a long way to go in a relatively short time, but we are firmly committed to building a vibrant, high quality pharmacy program in South Texas.”


In a progress report made by Reddy, the College of Pharmacy shows that it has taken a number of steps forward since receiving initial funding in September 2004. They include development of the professional pharmacy curriculum; hiring three faculty members; acquiring laboratory equipment from the pharmaceutical industry worth more than $800,000; receiving more than $105,000 in research grants; raising a total of $135,000 for scholarships; an is in the process of developing an extensive array of clinical sites.


The state-of-the-art building for the Irma Rangel College of Pharmacy, worth $14.5 million, will be completed and ready for occupancy in Spring 2005.


Clayton said that she is extremely pleased with Reddy’s accomplishments thus far, and she is confident that the pharmacy program will be one of which we can all be proud.


Reddy said he is pleased with the number and quality of student applications.


“We will continue accepting student applications and proceed with the applicant review process in March 2005, as originally scheduled, and will recommend guaranteed admission for a limited number of applicants from this pool for Fall 2006,” said Reddy.


Juan Escobar, District 43 House Representative, issued a statement pledging to continue working with his fellow legislators to obtain the necessary funding for the College of Pharmacy.


Ron Garza, president of the Coastal Bend Pharmacy Association and board member of the Texas Pharmacy Association, said, “Pharmacy is all about quality. We owe our students a top quality, first-rate program, just the way Irma would have wanted, and we will not settle for less.”


Juarez reiterated, saying, “South Texans deserve the best. Our primary objective, therefore, is to assure excellence in pharmacy education/training and the best learning experiences for our students.”
 
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JohnUNLV

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Thanks Caverject, that article was certainly enlightening and I will bring some of these topics to the deans myself and ask what is really going on.

John
 

ultracet

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Just out of curiosity..

hypothetically speaking. what will happen if HICP is never accredited? To the students?
 

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bbmuffin said:
Just out of curiosity..

hypothetically speaking. what will happen if HICP is never accredited? To the students?
Class action lawsuit? Every state has "graduation from an accredited school" as a pre-req to licensure as far as I know.
 
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bbmuffin said:
Just out of curiosity..

hypothetically speaking. what will happen if HICP is never accredited? To the students?
Mass Homocide and mass suicide I presume. :laugh: (only half joking)

I for one would be so extremely distraught I can only see very bad things happening, so I'd rather not speculate.

John
 

ultracet

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As far as all states requiring accrediation.... i thought it was that way as well but VA law states that the applicant must graduate from an "approved" school not accredited...

it also doesn't state what constitutes "approved"

however, can they sit for the naplex even if state law allows them to be licensed there?
 

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Although it does say approved, you do indeed have to graduate from a school that has accreditation to sit for the NAPLEX from what I understand. I have my doubts that there is recourse to a class action law-suit since the school clearly states on their web site that the school is not accredited. I imagine that they may very well gain accredation, but the students will most likely have to re-take any class whose curriculum did not meet the standards. Considering how quickly the entire program was implemented, I tend to think that this will be the vast majority of the classes currently offered. ACPE does have some fairly rigorous standards, and if the school can not even manage to get all the materials together to complete the application...well, I would find that disturbing if I were a student at HICP. I just really hope that the students at HICP don't end up out of luck and out of money.
 

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Tuck said:
I have my doubts that there is recourse to a class action law-suit since the school clearly states on their web site that the school is not accredited.
That is a fairly recent addition to the website.
 

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Perhaps so, but all the students who attended school there will be so far in debt that hiring an attorny will be out of the question :)
 
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Tuck said:
Perhaps so, but all the students who attended school there will be so far in debt that hiring an attorny will be out of the question :)
You find this funny or amusing? If so, you are a pathetic individual who enjoys others' misery and I pity you :smuggrin: . And it wasnt simply a matter of 'not completing' the application. ACPE wanted more information and further study of our current situation and our future.

Next time you find humor in others' downfalls, I suggest you search for a conscience. There are 240 lives riding on the line here and we do NOT need your snide remarks throwing gasoline on the fire, got it?

John
 

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jdpharmd? said:
Class action lawsuit?
I haven't seen anything about HICP but I'd be willing to guess that somewhere in the application process they would make you sign something saying you acknowledge that it's not accredited and that they make no guarantees about becoming accredited. If the school didn't, I would be very worried about the intelligence of the people running it because that could be a big bite in the ass moment for them.
 

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JohnHICP said:
You find this funny or amusing? If so, you are a pathetic individual who enjoys others' misery and I pity you :smuggrin: . And it wasnt simply a matter of 'not completing' the application. ACPE wanted more information and further study of our current situation and our future.

Next time you find humor in others' downfalls, I suggest you search for a conscience. There are 240 lives riding on the line here and we do NOT need your snide remarks throwing gasoline on the fire, got it?

John
Er...didn't you make the "mass homicide and mass suicide" joke earlier. Granted you and your fellow classmates are the ones affected and can joke at your own expense, but I don't think Tuck was laughing at you.
 

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It would be funny yet sad for those who go to HICP and could not take the NAPLEX. That is freaking hilarious!!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 

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One more thing. I don't know who is more STIPUD: the school for not getting their paper work in order for accred. or the 240 students who knew this and still went. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 

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Although in principle I agree with you, this is a really mean way of saying it and not called for. Many of those students had no other choice if they wanted to become a pharmacist. The others bought into the spin campaign HICP put out saying that the accreditation is a non-issue and it will happen. All around, it is a bad situation but there is no need to inflame the situation.

JohnHICP- You have got to tone down your rhetoric when someone says something you don't like about your school. You're better off ignoring ignorant posts on the topic of HICP than you are to respond. I know some posts deserve a flamming response(EX: a newbie going off about a PCAT response that they couldn't begin to understand cause it was over their head), but I don't think this topic is a good one to flame on.
 

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Apparantly I hit a little closer to the mark than I expected! It was intended more as a joke regarding something that I figured was highly unlikely to happen. However, if you actually took it serious, then I imagine HICP is in much more dire straights that I initially thought. In any case, my consience does not bother me in the slightest. As I stated months ago, I thought that becoming a student at HICP was far too risky a proposition for me, and I highly recommended applying to other pharmacy schools. Many of the students enrolled at HICP knew of the accredation status, and quite frankly the rest of the students should have taken the time to find out. If it was my life and lifestyle at stake I certainly would have taken that time, and in fact I did. As far as laughing at the misfortunes of others, if you can honestly say that you have watched an episode of America's Funniest Home Videos and not laughed at others misfortunes then feel free to post. I laugh at my own problems and I tend to try and find something funny in every situation, and my life has been better for it.
 
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JohnUNLV

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BESTPHARMACY said:
One more thing. I don't know who is more STIPUD: the school for not getting their paper work in order for accred. or the 240 students who knew this and still went. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Caverject, this is exactly why everyone hates this site and many people do not post here anymore. Complete trolls like this are tolerated and allowed to keep posting nonsense which is highly inflammatory.

I really don't know why I keep posting on this site. Its pretty clear that no one wants us to succeed. And I know exactly what your response is so save the "we are just looking our for our fellow students" garbage. If you read these posts from a more subjective angle you would know what I am talking about. But clearly thats not going to happen. So have a good life and I'll come back if there is something important to be said.

John
 

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JohnHICP said:
Caverject, this is exactly why everyone hates this site and many people do not post here anymore. Complete trolls like this are tolerated and allowed to keep posting nonsense which is highly inflammatory.

I really don't know why I keep posting on this site. Its pretty clear that no one wants us to succeed. And I know exactly what your response is so save the "we are just looking our for our fellow students" garbage. If you read these posts from a more subjective angle you would know what I am talking about. But clearly thats not going to happen. So have a good life and I'll come back if there is something important to be said.

John
LOL :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 

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JohnHICP said:
Originally the schools were almost identical, but they are actually completely different now. No block system. 4 different classes to attend. No tests every single friday, but different tests throughout.

Lets just hope we get an on-site this coming June. =\

John
Excuse my ignorance (i'm just a pre-pharm snooping) but whats a "block system"???

~M
 

ultracet

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mystiqx said:
Excuse my ignorance (i'm just a pre-pharm snooping) but whats a "block system"???

~M
you learn everything about an organ system in like a month...

kidneys.... pharmacology, disease states, kintics, etc
then
Brain
Then Heart
etc...

at other schools you have different classes ie. pharmacology, biochem, therapeutics, kinetics and they typically don't go over the same stuff at the same time...


JohnHICP: I guess since I am not in the situation you are I do not see things the way you do. Yes there are trolls on the board... we have ALL been subject to one at some time or another. ignoring them is the best method...
as for NO ONE wanting you to succeed... i'm really sick of reading that comment. we don't want collegues to fail. give me a break. as far as the not affording a lawyer comment... i thought it was funny too... i go to a very expensive private school and most in my class would be able to identify if we went under.

i honestly just wish that you would maybe lighten up a little bit. more than likely you don't know any of us nor do we know you. and while yes there are trolls (they also attend your school) the majority of the boards are not like that
 

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JohnHICP said:
I really don't know why I keep posting on this site. Its pretty clear that no one wants us to succeed.
John
No one wants you to succeed? A few negative posts (probably the same person) really isn't the attitude of everyone on this board. You may be upset, and you probably have every reason in the world to be...but you're taking it out on a board where for the most part there is a lot of sympathy for your position.
 

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Wow, John......this is what I was referring to before....people being too sensitive about others' ridiculous comments. Don't waste your energy. I say the best revenge you could have on any enemy is forgiveness. You've done a total "180" ever since you got the news that your school isn't getting candidate status yet. You seemed stronger than that when you first started posting. Nobody wants you to fail; actually, wait, you're right...the "nobody" that posted the "inflammatory comments" wants you to fail, but the rest of us hope that everything works out. There's no need to leave us.

JohnHICP said:
Caverject, this is exactly why everyone hates this site and many people do not post here anymore. Complete trolls like this are tolerated and allowed to keep posting nonsense which is highly inflammatory.

I really don't know why I keep posting on this site. Its pretty clear that no one wants us to succeed. And I know exactly what your response is so save the "we are just looking our for our fellow students" garbage. If you read these posts from a more subjective angle you would know what I am talking about. But clearly thats not going to happen. So have a good life and I'll come back if there is something important to be said.

John
 

Caverject

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JohnHICP said:
Caverject, this is exactly why everyone hates this site and many people do not post here anymore. Complete trolls like this are tolerated and allowed to keep posting nonsense which is highly inflammatory.

I really don't know why I keep posting on this site. Its pretty clear that no one wants us to succeed. And I know exactly what your response is so save the "we are just looking our for our fellow students" garbage. If you read these posts from a more subjective angle you would know what I am talking about. But clearly thats not going to happen. So have a good life and I'll come back if there is something important to be said.

John
Have you gone over Lithium yet in your schooling? Just because a few are scornful, doesn't equate to everyone. Don't forget, you bring a lot on yourself with the comments you make too. If you can learn to be diplomatic, I am positive you would have less hateful posts directed towards you and your school. If you keep posting that you and your school is the sh** and everyone else can suck one, then yeah I can see why people are a little scornful towards you and your school.

Also, in case you didn't realize it, some VERY influential people do read & participate in these boards. *hack* *hack* ACPE people *cough* *cough* This is the exact reason why I advocated TLC_HICP to be banned from this board. Do yourself a favor and realize this fact and sing the jingle from the Walmart commercial "Put on a happy face...."
 

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Now lets imagine the best, what if HICP does not get accred.? WHat will happen to all of their students-who-made-the-wrong-choice-in-choosing-a-non-accred.-school? Do they all have to apply to another pharmacy shcool and start the education all over again? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 

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Not to be offensive, but this whole thing is just not really a big deal. If you can't deal with jokes and minor criticisms just wait till your faced with a screaming patient whose wife left them for their brother, they lost their job, and their car broke down 3 blocks from the pharmacy and they had to walk in the rest of the way in the rain only for you to tell them that their insurance was just cancelled and they can't get the meds they need. Of course, you could just tell them..."I'm sorry, but I don't like your attitude so I am going to work in mail order." Its a fact of life that you will deal with unpleasentries, and they often come at the worst possible time. How well you deal with them is up to you, but giving up is usually a last resort.
 

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BESTPHARMACY said:
Now lets imagine the best, what if HICP does not get accred.? WHat will happen to all of their students-who-made-the-wrong-choice-in-choosing-a-non-accred.-school? Do they all have to apply to another pharmacy shcool and start the education all over again?
^^^This guy is a RIOT^^^
 

ultracet

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Is HICP going to continue to accept classes without accrediation?

do you think students will withdraw their acceptance pending the meeting in june?
 
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bbmuffin said:
Is HICP going to continue to accept classes without accrediation?

do you think students will withdraw their acceptance pending the meeting in june?
Yes bb, there are interviews going on almost every day and students are being accepted as we speak. There will be a full class next year, regardless of the outcome of June's meeting. I am confident that eventually we will become accredited, I just hope its sooner rather than later.
John
 
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Caverject said:
If you keep posting that you and your school is the sh** and everyone else can suck one, then yeah I can see why people are a little scornful towards you and your school.
When have i EVER, and i mean EVER said my school was the best and everyone one else's school sucks? I have never uttered those words and I've never even bragged about my school being the best. A lot of your posts seem to try and elicit an angry response from me, so why don't you try to be more positive and diplomatic as well? How about we all act like professionals and talk in a cival manner about appropriate topics? Novel idea huh?
John
 

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ACPE has updated its website with news from the January 05 meeting:

New School Applications: For Purposes of Consideration of Authorization of On-site Evaluations

Precandidate:

Texas A&M University-Kingsville School of Pharmacy
An on-site evaluation was not authorized. The institution was advised to resubmit an appropriately revised application.

Touro University College of Pharmacy- California
An on-site evaluation was authorized to be conducted during spring 2005, so as to provide the basis for the Board's consideration of precandidate accreditation of the Doctor of Pharmacy program at its June 2005 meeting.

University of Appalachia College of Pharmacy
An on-site evaluation was authorized to be conducted during spring 2005, so as to provide the basis for the Board's consideration of precandidate accreditation of the Doctor of Pharmacy program at its June 2005 meeting

Candidate:

Hawaii College of Pharmacy
An on-site evaluation was not authorized. The institution was advised to withdraw its application.

[ http://www.acpe-accredit.org/news/default.asp ]
I'm not entirely sure what that means for the future...
 

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jdpharmd? said:
ACPE has updated it's website with news from the January 05 meeting:

Candidate:

Hawaii College of Pharmacy
An on-site evaluation was not authorized. The institution was advised to withdraw its application.


I'm not entirely sure what that means for the future...
That really does not sound good. I feel really bad for the students in Hawaii. I'm not sure what that means, and it sounds like they are not getting complete information from their school. I would definitely converse with ACPE directly and find out....ASAP.
 

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jdpharmd? said:
An on-site evaluation was not authorized. The institution was advised to withdraw its application.
HICP is really messed up!!! So let me get this straight, ACPE "advised" HICP to "withdraw its application"? Does it mean what I think it is? bestpharmacy might be right afterall!
 

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jdpharmd? said:
Hawaii College of Pharmacy
An on-site evaluation was not authorized. The institution was advised to withdraw its application. [/B][/I]
I knew the situation was bad but this sounds like it is the beginning of the end. The ACPE did not even ask HICP to resubmit its application like other colleges that were also turned down.

If you are an HICP student, please email Joanna <[email protected]> directly and ask her about the situation immediately. I would not try to privately finance another 40,000$ for another year until I exactly understand the situation. I have been planning to communicate with the ACPE about this matter but I have been so busy lately.

John- Please stop being the mouthpiece for HICP. You are making the situation worse for HICP students. I don't think you are "confident" everything will work out. It is something you want to believe so please stop.
 

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To be honest,

I don't believe it can sound worse than that. Every other school was at least asked to resubmit but HICP was asked to withdraw completely :scared: as in they have to scrap their program. I guess life is full of choices and I feel bad for those who chose to invest in HICP.
Keep your heads up...
 

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BMBiology said:
The ACPE did not even ask HICP to resubmit its application like other colleges that were also turned down.
.

I'm just curious... what other colleges were turned down and do you know the reasons for that?

Also... do you think the ACPE is going to start "cracking down" on schools because so many are opening?
 

Caverject

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JohnHICP said:
When have i EVER, and i mean EVER said my school was the best and everyone one else's school sucks? I have never uttered those words and I've never even bragged about my school being the best. A lot of your posts seem to try and elicit an angry response from me, so why don't you try to be more positive and diplomatic as well? How about we all act like professionals and talk in a cival manner about appropriate topics? Novel idea huh?
John
It's your tone/rhetoric of your posts. However, I am not the one in the pressure cooker right now, and I am trying to help you. Thus, my advice in the second paragraph of my post. ;)
 

Caverject

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I found this to be more interesting...

jdpharmd? said:
ACPE has updated its website with news from the January 05 meeting:

New School Applications: For Purposes of Consideration of Authorization of On-site Evaluations

Precandidate:

Texas A&M University-Kingsville School of Pharmacy
An on-site evaluation was not authorized. The institution was advised to resubmit an appropriately revised application.


Candidate:

Hawaii College of Pharmacy
An on-site evaluation was not authorized. The institution was advised to withdraw its application.

[ http://www.acpe-accredit.org/news/default.asp ]
I'm not entirely sure what that means for the future...
 
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JohnUNLV

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BMBiology said:
John- Please stop being the mouthpiece for HICP. You are making the situation worse for HICP students. I don't think you are "confident" everything will work out. It is something you want to believe so please stop.
BM - please stop being immature, ignorant and inciteful. You are making all of our (HICP Students') situation worse. I don't think youa re "confident" about anything in your life which is why you think it is comical what is happening to us.

Just to let everyone know why the application was advised to be 'withdrawn' was because it was in the improper format and had some key elements missing. I'm not going to explain precisely what was wrong with it, because thats not your business, just know that the application was fomatted the wrong way but will be fixed according to ACPE's guidelines shortly.

And I AM confident in the people running this school, I have much faith in them and will continue to do so. Maybe you should hit the books more often instead of coming on SDN and just talking crap and trying to rile people up, or cause more panic. We have enough stress in our lives ok?

John
 

Caverject

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JohnHICP said:
I don't think youa re "confident" about anything in your life which is why you think it is comical what is happening to us.
Good job defending your school and fanning the flames! :rolleyes:

BTW- BMB has a B.S. in biochemistry & B.A. in psychology and minor in biomedical engineering.
 

BMBiology

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John- I want to make it very clear to you that I do not find HICP's situation to be humorous. I challenge you to prove your point with any of my previous posts. You can attack me personally but that does not change your situation, nor does it change your predicament. I cannot believe you still have confidence in the administration that cannot use the proper format? :confused: If they cannot even use the proper format then what make you think they will be able to gain accreditation from the ACPE? What has HICP done in the past that would give you total confidence in them?

An email from Joanna:
We have not yet given the College a specific deadline. The next board meeting takes place the 3rd week of June. We will probably allow them to submit by the end of May.

The ACPE Board of Directors determined that the Hawaii College of Pharmacy does not meet many of the ACPE Standards (listed on our website). We are uncertain to when they will meet these Standards.
 
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