Honest Volunteering

[bbdylan87]

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I'm a little annoyed right now. My friend just told me that his entire "volunteering" career he signed in and left. I understand that volunteering is a service that should be done for no extrinsic reason, but it drives me crazy that he's getting the same credit that I am. To further add insult to injury, he told me that after he signs in, he goes to ANOTHER volunteering organization to volunteer while he is already "volunteering"! Is there any way to anonymously report this individual? If not, can medical schools ask the contact reference about their schedule for that particular volunteering activity and cross examine between multiple activities? Or do medical schools only ask to verify the hours that they completed? Sorry for the rant, but I'm all about justice/karma (I know many of you will say "don't worry, he'll get his in the future", or "he won't be a good doctor anyways as he is dishonest", but I want to do my part as well to prevent doctors like this in the future if I can)

 

[RNtoMD87]

I don't think you should. But keep in mind its not about the hours. When you are going to interviews, and they ask you about your volunteering, the more meaningful it is, the better that you can discuss it. I couldn't fathom going to a medschool interview with a bunch of BSed EC's that I had to talk about on the fly.

 

[trobinsonmd]

This does not mean this person is going to be a bad doctor... over half of my friends that were pre-med and got in did this... I really don't think it's the biggest deal. When I was volunteering, half the time they would give us super menial tasks like delivering one patient tray every 45 minutes, and in a 4 hour shift, we would have three hours of down time where we were just sitting and looking at a wall. They had 3 volunteer's worth of work that needed to be done, yet they signed up 12 people to volunteer in most shifts, so part of it is the volunteer departments fault for not making volunteers feel valued.

Of course, I am not defending someone who does this and I am not condoning it, I'm just saying there are two sides to the story and that you should not report this person... there is likely no correlation between how much someone volunteers/does not volunteer with what kind of physician they will become

 

[drbatsandwich]

I don't really think there is any correlation between how quickly I can reset an ED room and the kind of doctor I will become. Your friend obviously sucks, but nobody likes a tattletale.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

If they get asked about it at an interview, it will be obvious it wasn’t a meaningful activity. Don’t let what other people do bother you. Reporting them isn’t going to change them.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

 

[Catalystik]

I'm a little annoyed right now. My friend just told me that his entire "volunteering" career he signed in and left. I understand that volunteering is a service that should be done for no extrinsic reason, but it drives me crazy that he's getting the same credit that I am. To further add insult to injury, he told me that after he signs in, he goes to ANOTHER volunteering organization to volunteer while he is already "volunteering"! Is there any way to anonymously report this individual? If not, can medical schools ask the contact reference about their schedule for that particular volunteering activity and cross examine between multiple activities? Or do medical schools only ask to verify the hours that they completed? Sorry for the rant, but I'm all about justice/karma (I know many of you will say "don't worry, he'll get his in the future", or "he won't be a good doctor anyways as he is dishonest", but I want to do my part as well to prevent doctors like this in the future if I can)

Without ratting anyone out, can you suggest to the volunteer coordinator that volunteers also be asked to sign out at the end of their shift? By improving the process, you can achieve your goal of enhancing honesty.

[I don't understand how the volunteer office would not be getting feedback from departments where these individuals are expected to help out.]

 

[LizzyM]

A classic and one of my favorites from The Onion:
https://www.theonion.com/soup-kitchen-volunteers-hate-college-application-paddin-1819566808

 

[fantasticman221]

I'm going to disagree with everyone here and just say this is the world we live in. Admissions, in some ways (not all), is structured that nice guys finish last. I would really like to believe that these people would get caught during the interview. However, chances are that your friend will be smart enough to come up and prepare some reasons why these experiences were valuable. I could go on about stories on how people BS their ECs and got accepted.

 

[deleted916225]

We're all playing the same game and you're friend just has one more trick up his sleeve. Let it go and focus on yourself.

 

[bbdylan87]

Without ratting anyone out, can you suggest to the volunteer coordinator that volunteers also be asked to sign out at the end of their shift? By improving the process, you can achieve your goal of enhancing honesty.

[I don't understand how the volunteer office would not be getting feedback from departments where these individuals are expected to help out.]

That's a great idea. I'm not sure if there is a sign-out sheet since I don't volunteer at the same organization as him, but it might be good to send them an email that a few volunteers may be taking advantage of the system (w/o naming him of course).

If they get asked about it at an interview, it will be obvious it wasn’t a meaningful activity. Don’t let what other people do bother you. Reporting them isn’t going to change them.

He is pretty great at faking information (based off of all the medical jobs he has had in the past - must be at least good at interviews), which has me a bit worried. I'll leave the med school process to med schools at this point, but I guess med schools won't take the time to email his volunteer organizations for his schedule then? Cuz that's really the only way I think he'll get caught (besides me "snitching" on him of course)

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Why are you so worried about him? It doesn't really affect you at all

 

[smukke]

[I don't understand how the volunteer office would not be getting feedback from departments where these individuals are expected to help out.]

Because as long as volunteers don't add to extra work either by not being there when expected (and they rarely expected) or causing problems no one other than the administrator who tracks volunteer hours (for compliance/grant/PR/etc) cares, at least from my experience in hospitals/large organizations. Face it, "volunteering" is a huge PR/corporate/government tool in our country and is often mandatory to be able to show that whatever you are doing is able to attract some level of volunteers (ie Medicare hospice).

That's a great idea. I'm not sure if there is a sign-out sheet since I don't volunteer at the same organization as him, but it might be good to send them an email that a few volunteers may be taking advantage of the system (w/o naming him of course).

Careful that you aren't opening up a can of worms, it might be that the organization is perfectly happy counting hours on their end using the current system as long as it mostly works even if not perfect.

 

[RangerBob]

I disagree with some earlier posts that there's no correlation between the kind of behavior exhibited by the OP's college and future performance as a physician. Medicine is based upon honesty and professionalism. Most jobs are for that matter. If you resort to lying about being somewhere and don't work hard (or at all), what kind of work ethic is that? Is this the person that's going to lie on rounds when asked if they looked up the latest labs? Are they going to make up physical exam findings? Are they cheating on tests?

I don't know a single physician or medical student who did this sort of thing. Maybe they're out there, but I hope I don't ever have to be taken care of by one of them.

It is not part of the game. I thank the stars I was a non-trad and didn't have to put up with pre-meds like the one the OP refers to.

It's upsetting to hear people do things like this. But this friend really isn't going to derive much benefit from faking a volunteer job. If it were a meaningful/reputable experience it would be hard to fake it-at most volunteer gigs worth doing, someone will notice if you're gone. And if the gig sounds impressive enough to be asked about, it's pretty hard to fake a real story/timeline when asked in real-time during an interview. I mean, anyone can make up a little blurb, but to really wing it and lie on the spot if an interviewer asks follow-up questions requires a certain degree of talent and sociopathic tendencies.

 

[Catalystik]

I guess med schools won't take the time to email his volunteer organizations for his schedule then?

They won't ask for one's precise schedule. Just timeframe of involvement and hours. Some schools won't check even that. Some will check only if things seem fishy (being two places at one time, extraordinary # of hours in a short timeframe, etc), and some schools check every relevant activity. But this validation doesn't occur prior to interviews or acceptances usually, as it would tie up too much manpower. It can occur anytime after med school matriculation. Investigation may take years to be complete. It has happened that med students were dismissed for lying on their application near the end of their med school years. Imagine having the having that (Damocles sword) hanging over your head, that you might never get a med school degree after years of expense.

 

[Catalystik]

I'm not sure if there is a sign-out sheet since I don't volunteer at the same organization as him, but it might be good to send them an email that a few volunteers may be taking advantage of the system (w/o naming him of course).

Careful that you aren't opening up a can of worms, it might be that the organization is perfectly happy counting hours on their end using the current system as long as it mostly works even if not perfect.

I agree with smukke that you shouldn't meddle if you aren't already affiliated with the same organization. They have no reason to listen to you when they don't know who you are.

 

[de Ribas]

Why are you so worried about him? It doesn't really affect you at all

So, if another employee would take advantage of the patient, you wouldn't report just because it doesn't affect you?

 

[3toedsloth]

A classic and one of my favorites from The Onion:
https://www.theonion.com/soup-kitchen-volunteers-hate-college-application-paddin-1819566808

Here at the Salvation Army, we try to appreciate all the help God sends our way, but I draw the line with that little ****.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

So, if another employee would take advantage of the patient, you wouldn't report just because it doesn't affect you?

If its fellow employee taking advantage of some patient then yes because if they were found out that would taint the brand that I work for. So it would affect me. And thats different then lying about volunteering... The lying about volunteering is just petty and literally affects no one.

 

[Lucca]

If its fellow employee taking advantage of some patient then yes because if they were found out that would taint the brand that I work for. So it would affect me. And thats different then lying about volunteering... The lying about volunteering is just petty and literally affects no one.

1. It says something negative about the character of the person willing to do this
2. It affects other applicants and the medical school.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

To me its on the same level as grabbing a few answers from a friend for the homework due that day or taking a 10 point online quiz and googling an answer or two. Not that big in the grand scheme of things and doesn't mean they will automatically be such a terrible/corrupt doctor.. Has no one on this thread ever done anything dishonest in their entire life....? And I am sure you are all great people. Im also sure your friend will end up being a fine physician. But thats just my point of view. And if anyone responds with they've never done anything dishonest in their life or that they wouldn't dare thinking of committing such atrocities, dont worry, I will be on my way out before the stones are cast

 

[bbdylan87]

Some will check only if things seem fishy (being two places at one time, extraordinary # of hours in a short timeframe, etc)

That's the thing. He's doing two volunteer activities at the same exact time by signing in, leaving, and going to another organization, so I'm not sure how schools will find out if they don't ask for his specific schedule. But I guess if schools don't ask for the specific time frames that he worked, he won't get caught, at least in this process unfortunately

 

[smukke]

Or signing in to class and leaving. Or signing in to conferences/didactics/etc and leaving. Or the under/over-reporting hours I've never seen residents engage in...

 

[de Ribas]

Or signing in to class and leaving. Or signing in to conferences/didactics/etc and leaving. Or the under/over-reporting hours I've never seen residents engage in...

Or leaving a surgery room with patient on the bed to deposit a check...

 

[DrRiker]

I'm going to disagree with everyone here and just say this is the world we live in. Admissions, in some ways (not all), is structured that nice guys finish last. I would really like to believe that these people would get caught during the interview. However, chances are that your friend will be smart enough to come up and prepare some reasons why these experiences were valuable. I could go on about stories on how people BS their ECs and got accepted.

Going to disagree with you on the nice guys finish last bit regarding admissions. People who BS and those who don't will both get into school. Those who don't are more likely to be driven enough to succeed and care enough to not burn out.

 

[fantasticman221]

Going to disagree with you on the nice guys finish last bit regarding admissions. People who BS and those who don't will both get into school. Those who don't are more likely to be driven enough to succeed and care enough to not burn out.

I hope so

 

[DrRiker]

I hope so

I know a number of fantastic physicians and physician-scientists. I also know a handful who are sub-par or bitter. Both groups work equally hard - the differentiating factor is that the former group is energized by serving people, while the latter resents embarking on such a grueling career and maybe would be happier without obligation to help those in need. Actually volunteering and helping others versus BSing one's hours may be indicative of their fate.