How ADCOMs review applications?

[OrdinaryDO]

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I did a little searching on the boards, but for the sake of a new year I figured I would pick the brains of some of the people who know a little something about the admissions process.

More specifically, how do ADCOMs fish through the thousands of applicants each year and how do they do it in an efficient manner as to not skip any important details of each applicant?

I have a general knowledge of how the process works and I know for the most part some school screen applicants out and some schools also take a number of applications and review them as a committee on X day each month (not all, of course.). But, are all applicant viewed by the committee, or do they split the applications up and let individual ADCOM personnel decide whom is fit for the committee selection and who is not?

I could be way off on my description of what I think the process entails. Also, I know that the each school in the U.S. may do this process a little differently, but you would think there is some efficient way for which most schools would use to sift through the vast pool of applicants.

 

[yanks26dmb]

I'm pretty sure they handle them in stacks of 200ish, and just kind of toss them all up in the air. Whichever applications land on their desk receives ii. The rest are rejected .

 

[mathnerd88]

If only we knew the true answer, the whole SDN would be thrown into a world of chaos in which there is absolutely no return.

 

[OrdinaryDO]

I'm pretty sure they handle them in stacks of 200ish, and just kind of toss them all up in the air. Whichever applications land on their desk receives ii. The rest are rejected .

I tried to tell people this and they all thought I was crazy! Jesus!

 

[Mad Jack]

It's different from school to school, there's no real answer for this question. Some use numeric ranking systems, others do rolling lists, etc etc.

 

[Goro]

This is what my school does. We don't have a screening committee; the wily old Admissions dean simply picks the highest numbers first, makes sure the the apps are complete, and then goes down the pile.


Whenever I see someone complain in the school-specific thread about "being complete at my school since Sept 1", and it's oh, February, I know that this person has lower than usual stats.

It's different from school to school, there's no real answer for this question. Some use numeric ranking systems, others do rolling lists, etc etc.

 

[IDK22]

This is what my school does. We don't have a screening committee; the wily old Admissions dean simply picks the highest numbers first, makes sure the the apps are complete, and then goes down the pile.


Whenever I see someone complain in the school-specific thread about "being complete at my school since Sept 1", and it's oh, February, I know that this person has lower than usual stats.

Numeric ranking system based solely on AACOMAS GPA/MCAT? Or a school-specific numeric ranking?

 

[Goro]

GPAs and MCAT only. We don't even pre-screen for major IAs, to the disgust of the Adcom members who to waste their time interviewing someone who is DOA, and the interviewee, who has wasted time effort and money on a fool's errand.

Numeric ranking system based solely on AACOMAS GPA/MCAT? Or a school-specific numeric ranking?

 

[IDK22]

GPAs and MCAT only. We don't even pre-screen for major IAs, to the disgust of the Adcom members who to waste their time interviewing someone who is DOA, and the interviewee, who has wasted time effort and money on a fool's errand.

Gotcha, yeah that does not seem very beneficial for anybody. So when would you say a close look at GPA trends, ECs, LORs occurs (aka the whole package)- all before II are sent or afterwards? Or both? Seems like only after an II for your school...would you say most schools follow this method?

 

[Goro]

At schools that pre-screen, the whole package is examined to determine who to invite. While numbers can screen people out, there are hordes of applicants with excellent stats, and that's why it's impossible to issue IIs for numbers only.

My impression is that the DO schools are more likely to not pre-screen, and the tops schools most likely to screen.

Gotcha, yeah that does not seem very beneficial for anybody. So when would you say a close look at GPA trends, ECs, LORs occurs (aka the whole package)- all before II are sent or afterwards? Or both? Seems like only after an II for your school...would you say most schools follow this method?

 

[IDK22]

At schools that pre-screen, the whole package is examined to determine who to invite. While numbers can screen people out, there are hordes of applicants with excellent stats, and that's why it's impossible to issue IIs for numbers only.

My impression is that the DO schools are more likely to not pre-screen, and the tops schools most likely to screen.

So when you say screen for numbers to determine II, are those the minimum requirements that are on each school's website? (aka 24 MCAT for KCU with a 3.25 cGPA/3.25 sGPA) Or are they usually much higher than what is advertised as minimum requirements? How many points off of the school's avg MCAT/GPA can we most likely expect an II? Thanks for the insight.

 

[Goro]

Yes. But may schools have stated numbers, but their effective floor is higher. For example, KCU might state a minimum of 3.25, but the effective floor might actually be 3.35 or higher. That's just an example; your milage may vary.

A very rough rule of thumb might be o.4 points lower than median GPA (see user3's list posted in this forum), or 3-4 points lower than MCAT.

This is why, for example, I don't recommend CCOM (median MCAT of 30) to people with a 25 or lower.

So when you say screen for numbers to determine II, are those the minimum requirements that are on each school's website? (aka 24 MCAT for KCU with a 3.25 cGPA/3.25 sGPA) Or are they usually much higher than what is advertised as minimum requirements? How many points off of the school's avg MCAT/GPA can we most likely expect an II? Thanks for the insight.

 

[echo87]

GPAs and MCAT only. We don't even pre-screen for major IAs, to the disgust of the Adcom members who to waste their time interviewing someone who is DOA, and the interviewee, who has wasted time effort and money on a fool's errand.

What kind of things are considered major IA's? And would having them completely take someone out of consideration, despite high MCAT and high GPA (with grade replacement)?

 

[Goro]

Academic dishonesty, crimes of moral turpitude; multiple DUIs or arrests, history of violence of any kind, dismissals from any other med school; refugees from Carib diploma mills.

What kind of things are considered major IA's? And would having them completely take someone out of consideration, despite high MCAT and high GPA (with grade replacement)?

 

[GypsyHummus]

This is what my school does. We don't have a screening committee; the wily old Admissions dean simply picks the highest numbers first, makes sure the the apps are complete, and then goes down the pile.


Whenever I see someone complain in the school-specific thread about "being complete at my school since Sept 1", and it's oh, February, I know that this person has lower than usual stats.

Then why is it advised people who have lower stats apply early?

 

[Goro]

Everyone should apply early. But the bigger fish are going to get picked up first. Those low stat people who finally get around to interviewing will be hit harder by the adcoms being more picky as the class size fills up. Early in the cycle, our wily old Admissions dean says to us "we should accept this one because s/he'll easily get in elsewhere", no matter what the stats are. He wants bodies in seats; we want competent bodies in seats.

Then why is it advised people who have lower stats apply early?

 

[echo87]

Academic dishonesty, crimes of moral turpitude; multiple DUIs or arrests, history of violence of any kind, dismissals from any other med school; refugees from Carib diploma mills.

Oh ok, here I was thinking stuff like academic suspensions/probation...

 

[Goro]

OK, for IAs, period, we have:

• Academic dishonesty,
• crimes of moral turpitude;
• multiple drug or alcohol IAs
• Multiples of any sort combined (which tells us these people haven't learned their lessons).

Oh ok, here I was thinking stuff like academic suspensions/probation...

 

[costales]

OK, for IAs, period, we have:

• Academic dishonesty,
• crimes of moral turpitude;
• multiple drug or alcohol IAs
• Multiples of any sort combined (which tells us these people haven't learned their lessons).

What constitutes moral turpitude to adcoms - the federal definition below? Just curious.
e.g. http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86942.pdf
A conviction for a statutory offense will involve moral turpitude if one or more of the elements of that offense have been determined to involve moral turpitude. The most common elements involving moral turpitude are: (1) Fraud; (2) Larceny; and (3) Intent to harm persons or things.

 

[Goro]

I don't think we've seen fraud, but we have seen larceny and harmful acts in the backgorund of a handful of applicants.

Keep in mind that these are super rare.

The most common IA is alcohol possession.

Which constitutes moral turpitude to adcoms - the federal definition below? Just curious.
e.g. http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86942.pdf
A conviction for a statutory offense will involve moral turpitude if one or more of the elements of that offense have been determined to involve moral turpitude. The most common elements involving moral turpitude are: (1) Fraud; (2) Larceny; and (3) Intent to harm persons or things.

 

[echo87]

Wait so academic suspensions /probation aren't considered IAs?

I know on the AMCAS these things are considered IAs

 

[OrdinaryDO]

@Goro , as an ADCOM do you teach or practice medicine of any sort or are there ADCOMs our there that are strictly on the administration side of things? I know this my seem like a dumb thing to ask, but I am kind of curious as to who makes up the ADCOM members.

 

[Goro]

They are, but at my school, they're not lethal. All DO schools, and some MD schools believe in reinvention.

Wait so academic suspensions /probation aren't considered IAs?
I know on the AMCAS these things are considered IAs


PhD here, not MD or DO. At my school all three are on the Adcom, as are students. This is common for med schools.

I was pre-med for all of ten minutes as an undergrad. Which turned out to be a good thing, because this is what medical school would have done to me:

@Goro , as an ADCOM do you teach or practice medicine of any sort or are there ADCOMs our there that are strictly on the administration side of things? I know this my seem like a dumb thing to ask, but I am kind of curious as to who makes up the ADCOM members.

 

[TooMuchPressure]

Please goro, those shoes are so out of style.

 

[Dustbowl12]

when it comes down to it, it becomes random...sometimes if there are two or three folders to choose from and a decision can't be made, they will randomly pick one file

 

[OrdinaryDO]

when it comes down to it, it becomes random...sometimes if there are two or three folders to choose from and a decision can't be made, they will randomly pick one file

I am obviously not in any place to say if this is true or false, but I would definitely have to disagree with this method. I don't see how they would have 3 "folders" that were of equal weight. I would like to think that medical schools look through each FILE thoroughly; even then, I highly doubt multiple applicants are weighted the exact same so they just pick one at random and throw the others away. Just my .02

 

[Goro]

Humor doesn't travel well over the electrons, alas.

I am obviously not in any place to say if this is true or false, but I would definitely have to disagree with this method. I don't see how they would have 3 "folders" that were of equal weight. I would like to think that medical schools look through each FILE thoroughly; even then, I highly doubt multiple applicants are weighted the exact same so they just pick one at random and throw the others away. Just my .02

 

[OrdinaryDO]

Humor doesn't travel well over the electrons, alas.

*sigh* you got me again.

 

[RoadNurse33]

I don't think we've seen fraud, but we have seen larceny and harmful acts in the backgorund of a handful of applicants.

Keep in mind that these are super rare.

The most common IA is alcohol possession.

Possessing/using a fake ID will get you the moral turpitude tag.

 

[OrdinaryDO]

Murder?

 

[RoadNurse33]

Murder?

I guess that's one way to obtain an ID.

I was kinda thinking less grandiose, like having someone else's driver's license to buy alcohol. Just trying to give you an example.

 

[OrdinaryDO]

I guess that's one way to obtain an ID.

I was kinda thinking less grandiose, like having someone else's driver's license to buy alcohol. Just trying to give you an example.

STILL IT!!! lol

 

[DrPatriot]

I was pre-med for all of ten minutes as an undergrad. Which turned out to be a good thing, because this is what medical school would have done to me

Why do you think med school would have flattened you?

 

[Goro]

All the stuff med students have to learn! My brain would have melted and leaked out my ears! I have no idea how my students and others do what they do, and they do it so well on top of that!!

Why do you think med school would have flattened you?

 

[yanks26dmb]

Possessing/using a fake ID will get you the moral turpitude tag.

While a fake ID may fall under "fraud", I think there is a huge difference between a 19 year old using a fake ID to buy beer from 7-11 and someone running a ponzi scheme to defraud individuals of money.

I'm pretty sure getting into a bar with a fake ID isn't a crime that involves moral turpitude.

 

[hopefulERdoc251]

@Goro

question, how do adcoms screen for those "unfortunate" applicants that are stuck at the medians of GPA's and MCATS (for those at the 3.6's 28/29), how do you approach them seeing as they are right at the median? I mean I know it can't hurt to be at the median but it's not the same as being above the median haha. I'm just wondering because I feel as if many of my fellow peers are at that 3.6/28 junction!

 

[OrdinaryDO]

@Goro

question, how do adcoms screen for those "unfortunate" applicants that are stuck at the medians of GPA's and MCATS (for those at the 3.6's 28/29), how do you approach them seeing as they are right at the median? I mean I know it can't hurt to be at the median but it's not the same as being above the median haha. I'm just wondering because I feel as if many of my fellow peers are at that 3.6/28 junction!

Better hope those LORs and ECs do you some justice

 

[hopefulERdoc251]

hahah I know those EC's do me justice...as for the LOR's lol well we all swore to confidentiality eh?

 

[hopefulERdoc251]

While a fake ID may fall under "fraud", I think there is a huge difference between a 19 year old using a fake ID to buy beer from 7-11 and someone running a ponzi scheme to defraud individuals of money.

I'm pretty sure getting into a bar with a fake ID isn't a crime that involves moral turpitude.

LOL running a ponzi scheme...if a pre-med runs a ponzi scheme their in the wrong field then.

 

[Goro]

At my school (or any other COM), these people would get invites, but not at LizzyM's or gyngyn's.

The national median for MCAT test takers is well below the median for med school matriculants.

There are a handful of MD schools for whom a 28 is >their 10th %ile; more if you count those in "lucky" states.

@Goro

question, how do adcoms screen for those "unfortunate" applicants that are stuck at the medians of GPA's and MCATS (for those at the 3.6's 28/29), how do you approach them seeing as they are right at the median? I mean I know it can't hurt to be at the median but it's not the same as being above the median haha. I'm just wondering because I feel as if many of my fellow peers are at that 3.6/28 junction!

 

[hopefulERdoc251]

At my school (or any other COM), these people would get invites, but not at LizzyM's or gyngyn's.

The national median for MCAT test takers is well below the median for med school matriculants.

There are a handful of MD schools for whom a 28 is >their 10th %ile; more if you count those in "lucky" states.

Ah! Thank you so much Goro! Always a great help for us neurotic premeds

 

[Bones 2020]

Ah! Thank you so much Goro! Always a great help for us neurotic premeds

Agreed. Goro is the premed advisor everyone wishes they had

Plus I really like cats...