How can DO schools afford to have lower admission stats

[artist27]

obviously I'm thankful that they do, but considering how many people with great stats want to become doctors, how can they afford this? I'm sure there are no where near enough md seats for everyone who do have amazing stats and experiences so why aren't the admission averages higher for DO schools?

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[Camaxtli]

obviously I'm thankful that they do, but considering how many people with great stats want to become doctors, how can they afford this? I'm sure there are no where near enough md seats for everyone who do have amazing stats and experiences so why aren't the admission averages higher for DO schools?

you are probably over estimating the amount of people with high stats. My school could have higher stats but that isnt the first thing they are looking for in an application

 

[0dee]

A lot of applicants with higher than average stats tend to overestimate their shot at getting an MD acceptance and simply do not apply DO. Also, generally speaking, applicants with higher stats tend to desire a match into competitive fields such as ortho, derm, and ENT, so by going the DO route it would be difficult to accomplish that.

 

[Peach Newport]

Let's say you have 100 people named Jen. All the Jens have 4.0/ 36. 80 of Jens will go MD, 10 will go DO, and 10 Jens go nowhere because they thought their stats were too good for DO. Sorry Jen, better luck next cycle.

Let's say you have 100 people named Lisa. All Lisas have 3.6/30. 55 will go MD, 40 will go DO, and 5 Lisas get to drop $4K on an AMCAS next cycle and get some research experience.

We have 100 Heidis, who all have 3.4/28. 25 Heidis will go MD, 75 will go DO. The Heidis were smart--they applied broadly. Be like Heidi.

We also have 100 Chads, who have 3.2/26. 10 Chads carefully studied the occult and discovered a way to conjure satan and sell their soul for an MD seat. 30 Chads got into Hooterville College of Osteopathic Medicine, the first medical school to ever open in an abandoned mining shaft (mining towns are often critically underserved, you know). 60 Chads, unfortunately, will not be accepted anywhere.

However, it's not like there are legions of Jens and Lisas who DO schools reject based on high stats.

 

[CastleG8]

Something like 80,000 MCAT test takers. Top 20 percentile is 80,000 * .20 = 16,000 aplicants with a 508+ MCAT, just a single variable besides GPA, EC, etc.
Total available seats. I think the number of high stat applicants isn't a huge number.

 

[BombsAway]

Let's say you have 100 people named Jen. All the Jens have 4.0/ 36. 80 of Jens will go MD, 10 will go DO, and 10 Jens go nowhere because they thought their stats were too good for DO. Sorry Jen, better luck next cycle.

Let's say you have 100 people named Lisa. All Lisas have 3.6/30. 55 will go MD, 40 will go DO, and 5 Lisas get to drop $4K on an AMCAS next cycle and get some research experience.

We have 100 Heidis, who all have 3.4/28. 25 Heidis will go MD, 75 will go DO. The Heidis were smart--they applied broadly. Be like Heidi.

We also have 100 Chads, who have 3.2/26. 10 Chads carefully studied the occult and discovered a way to conjure satan and sell their soul for an MD seat. 30 Chads got into Hooterville College of Osteopathic Medicine, the first medical school to ever open in an abandoned mining shaft (mining towns are often critically underserved, you know). 60 Chads, unfortunately, will not be accepted anywhere.

However, it's not like there are legions of Jens and Lisas who DO schools reject based on high stats.

You are my new spirit animal.

 

[Marrowist]

How can they afford it? 45,000 dollar tuition, that's how.

 

[Geo16]

How can they afford it? 45,000 dollar tuition, that's how.

With a bit of scholarships and donation here and there.. they are fully operational.

 

[Marrowist]

With a bit of scholarships and donation here and there.. they are fully operational.

It shocks me how naive most pre meds can be... It is ALL about money. All of it. It is the answer to all your questions! ! ! Merger? Money. DO vs. MD? Money. What school should I go to? Money.

 

[Papa Oso]

We have 100 Heidis, who all have 3.4/28. 25 Heidis will go MD, 75 will go DO. The Heidis were smart--they applied broadly. Be like Heidi.

Heyyyyyy, me and Heidi have the same stats, and both applied broadly and realistically only expect to get acceptances at DO schools. Glad I'm doing SOMETHING right lol.

 

[Papa Oso]

What school should I go to? Money.

Not the case for the few OOS MSUCOM students out there lol.

 

[Stagg737]

you are probably over estimating the amount of people with high stats. My school could have higher stats but that isnt the first thing they are looking for in an application

This is more true than most people realize, especially on this site. When I first applied the average MCAT score was around 24, the average MCAT for students accepted to MD schools was 31, and the average DO MCAT was a 26. My first score of 29 put me above the 70th percentile for the year I took it. If you look at the MSAR, there are many MD schools that have a 10th percentile score around the 26 or 27 for the their first year class.

Plus you have to factor in that there are a lot of students who either aren't balanced on paper (ie, have a 520 MCAT and a 2.9 GPA or students with zero ECs/research/volunteering) or people that are unbalanced irl and bomb their interviews. Guy I knew in college had something like a 3.95 GPA, ~515 MCAT, and graduated early, did a year of research, and got a bunch of pubs. Applied to 24 schools and got 1 acceptance because he was the most awkward, anti-social person you could imagine. He's now path resident at MGH (Harvard). Conversely, I've met people that had 25 MCATS with lower GPAs (3.2ish) who were so well-rounded outside of those stats that they had more than one acceptance. Stats matter a lot, especially getting past that first step, but there's a lot more to a med school app than just stats.

 

[FlatIsJustice]

Let's say you have 100 people named Jen. All the Jens have 4.0/ 36. 89 of Jens will go MD, 6 will go DO, and 5 Jens go nowhere because they thought their stats were too good for DO. Sorry Jen, better luck next cycle.

Let's say you have 100 people named Lisa. All Lisas have 3.6/30. 61 will go MD, 16 will go DO, and 23 Lisas either apply next year or give up on being a physician.

We have 100 Heidis, who all have 3.4/28. 27 Heidis will go MD, 25 will go DO. 48 either apply next year or give up on being a physician.

We also have 100 Chads, who have 3.2/26. 16 Chads carefully studied the occult and discovered a way to conjure satan and sell their soul for an MD seat. 25 Chads got into Hooterville College of Osteopathic Medicine, the first medical school to ever open in an abandoned mining shaft (mining towns are often critically underserved, you know). 59 Chads, unfortunately, will not be accepted anywhere.

However, it's not like there are legions of Jens and Lisas who DO schools reject based on high stats.

Reestimated your numbers based on stats from here.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstablea23.pdf
https://www.aacom.org/docs/default-source/data-and-trends/2015_Mat.pdf

Main points

1. It's a bit easier to get into an MD school than you thought.
2. A large number of applicants do not apply DO even if they don't have the ability to go MD.

MD enrollment is about 19k whereas DO enrollment per year is around 7k. There's no way that most applicants without the stats for MD go DO.

 

[Geo16]

It shocks me how naive most pre meds can be... It is ALL about money. All of it. It is the answer to all your questions! ! ! Merger? Money. DO vs. MD? Money. What school should I go to? Money.

Add Mr.J to the Pre-Med number...

 

[CastleG8]

Reestimated your numbers based on stats from here.

..............
https://www.aacom.org/docs/default-source/data-and-trends/2015_Mat.pdf
.............

Wow. I never realized how rare military service is, even for DO school (2.2% or 148 total). I bet most are fancy officers from West Point. *spit*

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Wow. I never realized how rare military service is, even for DO school (2.2% or 148 total). I bet most are fancy officers from West Point. *spit*

Most of us are former enlisted, I think. The vast majority of vets I know applying to med school were/are enlisted.

 

[CastleG8]

Most of us are former enlisted, I think. The vast majority of vets I know applying to med school were/are enlisted.

I hope so. Nothing against officers, I just didn't really know them. I can't believe the number is still so low considering how many veterans I met in undergrad with the GI BILL. I would never have gotten my degree without joining to the military. I hope to meet some fellow veterans in medical school.

 

[NecrotizingFasciitis]

Let's say you have 100 people named Jen. All the Jens have 4.0/ 36. 80 of Jens will go MD, 10 will go DO, and 10 Jens go nowhere because they thought their stats were too good for DO. Sorry Jen, better luck next cycle.

Let's say you have 100 people named Lisa. All Lisas have 3.6/30. 55 will go MD, 40 will go DO, and 5 Lisas get to drop $4K on an AMCAS next cycle and get some research experience.

We have 100 Heidis, who all have 3.4/28. 25 Heidis will go MD, 75 will go DO. The Heidis were smart--they applied broadly. Be like Heidi.

We also have 100 Chads, who have 3.2/26. 10 Chads carefully studied the occult and discovered a way to conjure satan and sell their soul for an MD seat. 30 Chads got into Hooterville College of Osteopathic Medicine, the first medical school to ever open in an abandoned mining shaft (mining towns are often critically underserved, you know). 60 Chads, unfortunately, will not be accepted anywhere.

However, it's not like there are legions of Jens and Lisas who DO schools reject based on high stats.

Chad

Literally dying laughing in a public place right now.



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[lnguyen1412]

Chad

Literally dying laughing in a public place right now.



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Where do I sign up for the occultist that taught these Chad? Lol.

 

[NecrotizingFasciitis]

Where do I sign up for the occultist that taught these Chad? Lol.

Can we use the remainder of this thread to critically and thoroughly discuss the pros & cons of selling your soul to attend an allopathic school?

I think the first issue to address is: which tiers are worthy of soul-selling? Can we all agree that carrib. schools are out and that tier 1's are in?




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[DetectiveAlonzo]

DO school is like that ugly duckling type of chick.

Nobody wants to go to prom with her... but deep down... she'll give you more than you ask for.

I personally don't/didn't care... I just wanted to go to prom and have a ball... while everybody else is trying to get the cheerleader... I found the quirky, nerdy ways of the ugly duckling to be just what I want.

She got a haircut, some new clothes, and some make-up.. started drinking more water and exercising.. got rid of that acne... now she looks like a dime piece to match that awesome personality of hers.

You swoop in... and now everybody wants to get it in with the ugly duckling.

She's in high demand now after the cheerleader has thwarted everybody else's attempts to get at her... besides the football jocks and super attractive athletes.

Also..

It beats the caribbean ... which is a dirty dirty ***** that takes anybody and everybody as long as they got the $$$.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I hope so. Nothing against officers, I just didn't really know them. I can't believe the number is still so low considering how many veterans I met in undergrad with the GI BILL. I would never have gotten my degree without joining to the military. I hope to meet some fellow veterans in medical school.

Same here. I got my degree using TA. Definitely wouldn't have been possible for me without the Navy.

 

[Peach Newport]

DO school is like that ugly duckling type of chick.

Nobody wants to go to prom with her... but deep down... she'll give you more than you ask for.

I personally don't/didn't care... I just wanted to go to prom and have a ball... while everybody else is trying to get the cheerleader... I found the quirky, nerdy ways of the ugly duckling to be just what I want.

She got a haircut, some new clothes, and some make-up.. started drinking more water and exercising.. got rid of that acne... now she looks like a dime piece to match that awesome personality of hers.

You swoop in... and now everybody wants to get it in with the ugly duckling.

She's in high demand now after the cheerleader has thwarted everybody else's attempts to get at her... besides the football jocks and super attractive athletes.

Also..

It beats the caribbean ... which is a dirty dirty ***** that takes anybody and everybody as long as they got the $$$.

Hey man, not cool. I've known some really dirty ******, and at least if you paid them, they'd make sure you finish.

 

[Papa Oso]

It beats the caribbean ... which is a dirty dirty ***** that takes anybody and everybody as long as they got the $$$.

And there is about a 50/50 chance that she might be catfishing you and then end up taking all of your money, leaving you in thousands of dollars of debt with no residency.

 

[Goro]

We've had exactly one West Point grad in the entire time I've been Faculty.

I've interviewed perhaps three Air Force Academy and three naval Academy grads as well.

Wow. I never realized how rare military service is, even for DO school (2.2% or 148 total). I bet most are fancy officers from West Point. *spit*

 

[CastleG8]

We've had exactly one West Point grad in the entire time I've been Faculty.

I've interviewed perhaps three Air Force Academy and three naval Academy grads as well.

So the majority that make it to interviews are enlisted veterans?

 

[Goro]

Of service people we've matriculated, yes. I think that combat medics were the majority MOS.

So the majority that make it to interviews are enlisted veterans?

 

[CastleG8]

Of service people we've matriculated, yes. I think that combat medics were the majority MOS.

That makes sense. It would be a great experience. It was my original MOS on MEPS trip #1. Anyways, thanks for the perspective.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

That makes sense. It would be a great experience. It was my original MOS on MEPS trip #1. Anyways, thanks for the perspective.

Corpsman was my number one choice too, but I ended up a gunners mate.

Edit:
I mean a B320.

 

[BombsAway]

Wow. I never realized how rare military service is, even for DO school (2.2% or 148 total). I bet most are fancy officers from West Point. *spit*

this is the one i meant to quote... among those with military service, the applicant to matriculant ratio is no bueno. makes one wonder if it is a boon at all in the process.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

this is the one i meant to quote... among those with military service, the applicant to matriculant ratio is no bueno. makes one wonder if it is a boon at all in the process.

I was told by LizzyM to add ~5 points to my LizzyM score. Perhaps a lot of vets are not applying broadly. What are the average stats for vet applicants?

 

[Stagg737]

So the majority that make it to interviews are enlisted veterans?

I second @Goro on this. My class probably has a few people that were military before matriculating, and I don't think any of them were officers. None of the ones I talk to were officers anyway.

 

[BombsAway]

I was told by LizzyM to add ~5 points to my LizzyM score. Perhaps a lot of vets are not applying broadly. What are the average stats for vet applicants?

i don't think that data is out there. if it is, i haven't found it.

Anecdotally, my fellow veteran pre-meds at school tend to not crush it academically (n=15ish). Could be the grades are just too low for the +5 (or whatever) to swing the needle. Or like somebody else said, that aren't applying broadly... Or they're all matriculating MD?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

i don't think that data is out there. if it is, i haven't found it.

Anecdotally, my fellow veteran pre-meds at school tend to not crush it academically (n=15ish). Could be the grades are just too low for the +5 (or whatever) to swing the needle. Or like somebody else said, that aren't applying broadly... Or they're all matriculating MD?

Honestly, that last part probably plays a big role. I'm sure a lot of vets apply strictly MD.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I second @Goro on this. My class probably has a few people that were military before matriculating, and I don't think any of them were officers. None of the ones I talk to were officers anyway.

Officers have it nice, at least in the Navy. Lots of incentive to stick it out, and if you really want to go to med school, you can apply for a conditional release to go to USUHS.

 

[deleted707454]

Let's say you have 100 people named Jen. All the Jens have 4.0/ 36. 80 of Jens will go MD, 10 will go DO, and 10 Jens go nowhere because they thought their stats were too good for DO. Sorry Jen, better luck next cycle.

Let's say you have 100 people named Lisa. All Lisas have 3.6/30. 55 will go MD, 40 will go DO, and 5 Lisas get to drop $4K on an AMCAS next cycle and get some research experience.

We have 100 Heidis, who all have 3.4/28. 25 Heidis will go MD, 75 will go DO. The Heidis were smart--they applied broadly. Be like Heidi.

We also have 100 Chads, who have 3.2/26. 10 Chads carefully studied the occult and discovered a way to conjure satan and sell their soul for an MD seat. 30 Chads got into Hooterville College of Osteopathic Medicine, the first medical school to ever open in an abandoned mining shaft (mining towns are often critically underserved, you know). 60 Chads, unfortunately, will not be accepted anywhere.

However, it's not like there are legions of Jens and Lisas who DO schools reject based on high stats.

TIL my name is Chad

 

[CastleG8]

I was told by LizzyM to add ~5 points to my LizzyM score. Perhaps a lot of vets are not applying broadly. What are the average stats for vet applicants?

For TMDSAS I have a 67.5 LizzyM, veteran. No MD invites. No secondary invite from Dell. II from TCOM and UIWSOM, the new DO school. Complete late July. Applied every Texas school except Baylor.

 

[Kgizzle]

For TMDSAS I have a 67.5 LizzyM, veteran. No MD invites. No secondary invite from Dell. II from TCOM and UIWSOM, the new DO school. Complete late July. Applied every Texas school except Baylor.

You'll get in... I'm sure of it

 

[psychic_detective]

For TMDSAS I have a 67.5 LizzyM, veteran. No MD invites. No secondary invite from Dell. II from TCOM and UIWSOM, the new DO school. Complete late July. Applied every Texas school except Baylor.

Dell is weird though so no worry there. Also check out your ps and other essays. I had a friend who has a masters in English read my first draft and I came off as an uncaring pessimist. Lol. I changed UNT and a few drafts later it had corrected the problem. I think the military makes you slightly jaded in how you write.

 

[CastleG8]

Dell is weird though so no worry there. Also check out your ps and other essays. I had a friend who has a masters in English read my first draft and I came off as an uncaring pessimist. Lol. I changed UNT and a few drafts later it had corrected the problem. I think the military makes you slightly jaded in how you write.

I always worry about my PS, but I love UNT and think my interview went well. Looking forward to UIWSOM interview. Thanks!

 

[GypsyHummus]

Let's say you have 100 people named Jen. All the Jens have 4.0/ 36. 80 of Jens will go MD, 10 will go DO, and 10 Jens go nowhere because they thought their stats were too good for DO. Sorry Jen, better luck next cycle.

Let's say you have 100 people named Lisa. All Lisas have 3.6/30. 55 will go MD, 40 will go DO, and 5 Lisas get to drop $4K on an AMCAS next cycle and get some research experience.

We have 100 Heidis, who all have 3.4/28. 25 Heidis will go MD, 75 will go DO. The Heidis were smart--they applied broadly. Be like Heidi.

We also have 100 Chads, who have 3.2/26. 10 Chads carefully studied the occult and discovered a way to conjure satan and sell their soul for an MD seat. 30 Chads got into Hooterville College of Osteopathic Medicine, the first medical school to ever open in an abandoned mining shaft (mining towns are often critically underserved, you know). 60 Chads, unfortunately, will not be accepted anywhere.

However, it's not like there are legions of Jens and Lisas who DO schools reject based on high stats.

Chad should have applied to podiatry school