How competitive is a DO in an MD's world?

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I just read Willen's initial response and wanted to add a few things:

-I think Willen did a good job summarizing his points, and I don't think any of this should be held against him at all. Like he said, he thinks the education he's receiving is excellent and on par with MD students, and he did go into OMM with an open mind and didn't like it. Furthermore, I do feel bad that it's impacting his experience. Medical school is rough in a lot of ways, and it wouldn't be any easier with something continually rearing its head.

-However, I am a bit confused on how much time is spent on OMM/OMM studying at your particular school. At KCOM, the school and OMM department pride themselves on the amount of OMM we have in the curriculum. Essentially, we usually have 4 hours a week in labs, have regular practical and written exams, have quizzes, have a big final that involves models, a practical, and a written exam spread out over different days, and a huge, amazing OMM lab (our lab really is awesome and we utilize it for a lot of different things), and even with all this, I still don't feel like the amount of time dedicated to OMM is too much.

Like I said in my previous post, times when "OMM stuff" falls right before traditional med school exams is NOT fun ... and even the students who really like OMM aren't fans of this. However, on just a general weekly basis, I don't think OMM really ever messed with my normal studying and labs were always in the mornings before lectures (I attend lecture though, so it could be different for people who don't), and didn't affect my studying time either. Again, I'm sorry to hear about this, but I feel like my program is very, very involved with OMM and it just didn't cause the interruptions described in the post.

-I also wanted to touch on grades in OMM ... like Willen said, even if you aren't an OMM master, you'll do well in OMM. Most of the professors are very understanding about how long it can take to develop palpatory skills and even how subjective some of the diagnoses can be, and my experience is that if you try and learn the stuff ... you'll do fine. However, I do think certain professors/table trainers become irritated or frustrated (understandably) if they can tell you just aren't even putting in the minimal effort, so I do suggest demonstrating to them that you're giving it your best and doing what you can to learn and practice the techniques ... and you'll do well.

-Additionally, as far as what was said to you at the AOA convention, I definitely understand why this would be upsetting or seem like certain individuals aren't looking toward the future, but keep a few things in mind: 1. This gentlemen is a high ranking professional with the American OSTEOPATHIC Association ... he's going to be very pro-DO; 2. I do believe Dr. Levine (if that's who you spoke to) is the President elect (I think Dr. Nichols still has a bit of time left), meaning he's new and very gung-ho; 3. This was essentially a DO pride convention ... this type of "spirit" is to be expected. Granted, I completely understand what you're saying, but I also think some of the above explanations could have had something to do with it.

-As far as not going to a DO school because of OMM ... I don't agree with this. Like I said ad nauseum, OMM is a subject that DOs take and MDs don't. Plain and simple. You have to take it for 2 years ... know this, but I just don't see it as a reason not to attend a DO program if you love it for everything else. I personally know people who hate OMM, but are still very pleased with their school choice and are still doing very well because of everything else that they enjoy about the program.

-I also wanted to touch on a few of your comments with the OMM department ...

From my experience (and what I've heard from other students), even if people don't like OMM, they generally enjoy the OMM docs. They seem to be a very easy going, non-confrontational, respectful group of people, and I really had good experiences with our OMM department. Having said that, keep in mind that my comments were made based of our OMM department and although I do think most of the docs/departments are somewhat like this, it's ALL going to be a case-by-case basis, and it sounds like it's not the best situation in the initial post (again, sorry to hear this).

Dude thanks for this well thought out mature post! Good work! I am sure my experience with OMM would be somewhat different if it werent for the department at my school. I sort of feel like things are coming to a head with regard to the dept. SO many people in my class completely ripped the dept apart on course reviews and last I heard the "must get a 70+ on all writtens" policy was being reviewed by administration. So we shall see! I will keep yall posted if things change for the better. I will probably be offline for a few days..but hope everyone has a great 4th!

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I just read Willen's initial response and wanted to add a few things:

-I think Willen did a good job summarizing his points, and I don't think any of this should be held against him at all. Like he said, he thinks the education he's receiving is excellent and on par with MD students, and he did go into OMM with an open mind and didn't like it. Furthermore, I do feel bad that it's impacting his experience. Medical school is rough in a lot of ways, and it wouldn't be any easier with something continually rearing its head.

-However, I am a bit confused on how much time is spent on OMM/OMM studying at your particular school. At KCOM, the school and OMM department pride themselves on the amount of OMM we have in the curriculum. Essentially, we usually have 4 hours a week in labs, have regular practical and written exams, have quizzes, have a big final that involves models, a practical, and a written exam spread out over different days, and a huge, amazing OMM lab (our lab really is awesome and we utilize it for a lot of different things), and even with all this, I still don't feel like the amount of time dedicated to OMM is too much.

Like I said in my previous post, times when "OMM stuff" falls right before traditional med school exams is NOT fun ... and even the students who really like OMM aren't fans of this. However, on just a general weekly basis, I don't think OMM really ever messed with my normal studying and labs were always in the mornings before lectures (I attend lecture though, so it could be different for people who don't), and didn't affect my studying time either. Again, I'm sorry to hear about this, but I feel like my program is very, very involved with OMM and it just didn't cause the interruptions described in the post.

-I also wanted to touch on grades in OMM ... like Willen said, even if you aren't an OMM master, you'll do well in OMM. Most of the professors are very understanding about how long it can take to develop palpatory skills and even how subjective some of the diagnoses can be, and my experience is that if you try and learn the stuff ... you'll do fine. However, I do think certain professors/table trainers become irritated or frustrated (understandably) if they can tell you just aren't even putting in the minimal effort, so I do suggest demonstrating to them that you're giving it your best and doing what you can to learn and practice the techniques ... and you'll do well.

-Additionally, as far as what was said to you at the AOA convention, I definitely understand why this would be upsetting or seem like certain individuals aren't looking toward the future, but keep a few things in mind: 1. This gentlemen is a high ranking professional with the American OSTEOPATHIC Association ... he's going to be very pro-DO; 2. I do believe Dr. Levine (if that's who you spoke to) is the President elect (I think Dr. Nichols still has a bit of time left), meaning he's new and very gung-ho; 3. This was essentially a DO pride convention ... this type of "spirit" is to be expected. Granted, I completely understand what you're saying, but I also think some of the above explanations could have had something to do with it.

-As far as not going to a DO school because of OMM ... I don't agree with this. Like I said ad nauseum, OMM is a subject that DOs take and MDs don't. Plain and simple. You have to take it for 2 years ... know this, but I just don't see it as a reason not to attend a DO program if you love it for everything else. I personally know people who hate OMM, but are still very pleased with their school choice and are still doing very well because of everything else that they enjoy about the program.

-I also wanted to touch on a few of your comments with the OMM department ...

From my experience (and what I've heard from other students), even if people don't like OMM, they generally enjoy the OMM docs. They seem to be a very easy going, non-confrontational, respectful group of people, and I really had good experiences with our OMM department. Having said that, keep in mind that my comments were made based of our OMM department and although I do think most of the docs/departments are somewhat like this, it's ALL going to be a case-by-case basis, and it sounds like it's not the best situation in the initial post (again, sorry to hear this).

Just to comment on a few things: At my school we have usually about 1.5 hours of lab and perhaps 1 hour of lecture a week (sometimes 2). There is ZERO integration between the OMM and traditional courses. OMM is never mentioned in these courses. Its literally like we are going to an MD school with a separate OMM course we take. So this separation DOES cause more people to become irritated when OMM requirements "encroach" on our typical curriculum (if that makes sense). If it was more integrated, I think that OMM would be viewed as just another part of the typical curriculum...but its viewed as totally separate. As far as the OMM docs go: they are not like you describe for the most part. Yes there are a few docs who you can tell arent 100 percent gung ho and understand that OMM isnt the panacea that some of the old heads think it is. (generally the docs who actually completed IM/FM type residencies) The docs who just did OMM residencies are just so incredibly anal.....and really dont tolerate it if you dont like their course. And from my standpoint its sort of funny that they are so anal about you not liking their course....yet they decided to shun the rest of traditional medicine and only train in OMM....so essentially they are doing the same thing in reverse.

I will agree that it is nice to have some of the anatomy stuff constantly brought up in OMM. It helps to keep the important anatomical stuff fresh in your mind.

As far as the Dr.Levine stuff: I just mentioned that as evidence to how the top brass at the AOA thinks/acts...and not because I was pissed or anything (about the OMS thing)...I WAS however pissed at how he treated us like *****s when we were actually talking to congressmen/women.

In closing, I dont think OMM is really "ruining" my school for me...but it is definitely a negative area that really gives me a bad taste in my mouth. Maybe if there wasnt as much of a palpable "student vs omm dept" feeling at my school things would be different. I do still stand by my opinion that premeds do need to consider the fact that they will be learning OMM and that OMM (albeit a minor part of the curriculum) potentially will interfere with you learning the traditional stuff. I think that if you have already made up your mind that OMM isnt for you but are going to go DO anyway because you cant go MD..that you really need to think about your options more closely...because OMM may make you miserable. Like ive said before, I started at PCOM with a totally open mind toward it and I am still put off by the subject...I cant even imagine if I had already made up my mind as a premed. Okay back to work!
 
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