How do you tell them you have kids???

[Lucinda]

Moms with children - how do you let your team know you have kids on your rotations? I have a 13 month old daughter and have found that I NEED to let my team know I'm in charge of picking her up from preschool - but it has always been an awkward conversation to initiate. Thankfully, last rotation I put her picture on the back of my ID card and it swung around during the first day - my intern asked if that was my daughter so there was the icebreaker.
Just curious how other moms handle this! TIA!

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[Lucinda]

I'd chastise y'all for not responding...but the ones I'm targetting are probably off doing their own mom thing. C'mon - doesn't anyone have any input???

 

[Flea girl]

Moms with children - how do you let your team know you have kids on your rotations? I have a 13 month old daughter and have found that I NEED to let my team know I'm in charge of picking her up from preschool - but it has always been an awkward conversation to initiate. Thankfully, last rotation I put her picture on the back of my ID card and it swung around during the first day - my intern asked if that was my daughter so there was the icebreaker.
Just curious how other moms handle this! TIA!

I am not sure if I use any particular approach. One way or another it just comes out in regular conversation. But I am lucky, I do not have to worry about picking up my kids from daycare/ preschool or anything else like that. My Husband works from home, so he takes care of most of those things. My big job is taking the kids to get their shots. My husband just can't handle that .

 

[Gimlet]

I'd chastise y'all for not responding...but the ones I'm targetting are probably off doing their own mom thing. C'mon - doesn't anyone have any input???

Try mommd.com...you'll hit more of your target audience.

 

[Lucinda]

Try mommd.com...you'll hit more of your target audience.

Actually...I'm not a big mommd fan...but thanks for the
(obvious) suggestion.

 

[Entol]

Moms with children - how do you let your team know you have kids on your rotations? I have a 13 month old daughter and have found that I NEED to let my team know I'm in charge of picking her up from preschool - but it has always been an awkward conversation to initiate. Thankfully, last rotation I put her picture on the back of my ID card and it swung around during the first day - my intern asked if that was my daughter so there was the icebreaker.
Just curious how other moms handle this! TIA!

Why does your team need to know about your daughter? I would love to leave early, dump my work on another med student or intern, and go play football while it's light out. However, I don't come to work in a football jersey hoping it'll serve as an icebreaker..

Sorry to be mean, but med school is work and you don't need to have your workload reduced and someone else's increased because you have life obligations like the rest of us.

Also, props to Flea Girl for working this stuff out and proving that it is possible to raise a family and still go to med school. Good for you.

 

[Lucinda]

Why does your team need to know about your daughter? I would love to leave early, dump my work on another med student or intern, and go play football while it's light out. However, I don't come to work in a football jersey hoping it'll serve as an icebreaker..

Sorry to be mean, but med school is work and you don't need to have your workload reduced and someone else's increased because you have life obligations like the rest of us.

Also, props to Flea Girl for working this stuff out and proving that it is possible to raise a family and still go to med school. Good for you.

Spoken like someone without children. I would hardly liken raising a child to a game of pick-up football. Hopefully, one day you'll get it.

 

[ForensicsBound]

Moms with children - how do you let your team know you have kids on your rotations? I have a 13 month old daughter and have found that I NEED to let my team know I'm in charge of picking her up from preschool - but it has always been an awkward conversation to initiate. Thankfully, last rotation I put her picture on the back of my ID card and it swung around during the first day - my intern asked if that was my daughter so there was the icebreaker.
Just curious how other moms handle this! TIA!

How about this: I have a 13 month old daughter and have to pick her up from preschool.

I know it's an unorthodox approach but it just may do the trick.

Of course there are other options:

Come in with a dirty diaper in your white coat, wait till someone smells the stench of the poop and asks you what you have in your coat. Then you can "break the ice" and tell them.

Or you can put her picture on the front of your ID card and wait till someone asks you if that's your picture or your daughter's.

Another option is to suck on a pacifier at lunch and see if anyone on your team notices. Someone just may ask you...hey where'd you get the binkie? Then you can break the ice and tell them. If no one asks at lunch, try sucking on the pacifier during rounds.

 

[njbmd]

Hi there,
Just ask your team if you can leave and pick up your daughter. On some days you will be able to leave and on others you will not and you will have to have a back-up plan. Having a child in medical school is not that unusual. Your classmates and residents are mature adults and know about obligations. Just let them know when you have to leave and make sure your work is done.

njbmd

 

[DrMom]

I've rarely had a rotation with a schedule that permitted me to pick my daughter up regularly. I take advantage of the opportunities I get, but I don't ask to be able to leave to get her unless I get a call from school saying she's sick (and nobody else is available to get her).

As njbmd said, these are adults you are working with and they have and understand obligations. If you have a reasonable situation, they should be understanding, but I wouldn't expect to regularly be able to pick up my kid unless that particular service habitually gets done in time.

 

[tigershark]

Why should it matter if you have kids? Everybody has obligations, why do you think you are entitled to special treatment?

 

[SLUser11]

Actually...I'm not a big mommd fan...but thanks for the
(obvious) suggestion.

Does Miss Lucinda sound like a b*#ch or what?

As people have pointed out, most health care teams would be understanding and let you go pick up your daughter, but in my opinion you shouldn't put them in the position where they have to grant you that favor. I would be super-pissed off if somebody left the hospital daily before the work is done.

Also, this "how do I sneak it into the conversation" bulls@#t makes me doubly annoyed.......

 

[ssdoc]

A 13 month old in pre-school??

 

[Lucinda]

That's MRS Lucinda to you! And again, a child isn't "any old obligation" - it's thinking like that that will get you in trouble, and again shows a level of immaturity.

Why does everyone assume that I'm leaving early and shirking my responsibilities? So far I've honored ALL of my rotations, so I don't think I'm slacking by that standard.

The issue isn't leaving EARLY - it's just letting them know that I'd like to pick her up. Pure and simple. No "sneaking" into the conversation, I just wanted a suggestion on how to INITIATE the conversation.

Maybe I should clarify - I have to pick her up by 6 pm - with traffic that means I need to leave by 5. I come in EARLY - 4:30 to 5 am for all clerkships b/c my husband doesn't take her to preschool until 10 am. So I've far outworked many of my colleagues who don't get into preround until 7, 7:30 after a hard Thursday night, so I'm not bailing before MY portion of the work is done. On call days when I need to stay later, I do. Thusfar, I haven't had any problems with my rotations - including surgery and ob/gyn.

My question was merely how do I mention that I have a child since I look so young for my age. BY NO MEANS did I suggest that I'm bugging out early. That would be an entirely different thread...

 

[DrMom]

Hey, there's no reason to make any personal attacks. If you don't have something to actually contribute to the discussion, then please move along without posting. (and, no, this isn't directed at the OP, in case there is any confusion.)

 

[Uncus]

How about this: I have a 13 month old daughter and have to pick her up from preschool.

I know it's an unorthodox approach but it just may do the trick.

Of course there are other options:

Come in with a dirty diaper in your white coat, wait till someone smells the stench of the poop and asks you what you have in your coat. Then you can "break the ice" and tell them.

Or you can put her picture on the front of your ID card and wait till someone asks you if that's your picture or your daughter's.

Another option is to suck on a pacifier at lunch and see if anyone on your team notices. Someone just may ask you...hey where'd you get the binkie? Then you can break the ice and tell them. If no one asks at lunch, try sucking on the pacifier during rounds.

I feel bad for the original poster because of the rude responses but this is one of the funniest posts that I've ever read on this site.

 

[tigershark]

That's MRS Lucinda to you! And again, a child isn't "any old obligation" - it's thinking like that that will get you in trouble, and again shows a level of immaturity.

Why does everyone assume that I'm leaving early and shirking my responsibilities? So far I've honored ALL of my rotations, so I don't think I'm slacking by that standard.

The issue isn't leaving EARLY - it's just letting them know that I'd like to pick her up. Pure and simple. No "sneaking" into the conversation, I just wanted a suggestion on how to INITIATE the conversation.

Maybe I should clarify - I have to pick her up by 6 pm - with traffic that means I need to leave by 5. I come in EARLY - 4:30 to 5 am for all clerkships b/c my husband doesn't take her to preschool until 10 am. So I've far outworked many of my colleagues who don't get into preround until 7, 7:30 after a hard Thursday night, so I'm not bailing before MY portion of the work is done. On call days when I need to stay later, I do. Thusfar, I haven't had any problems with my rotations - including surgery and ob/gyn.

My question was merely how do I mention that I have a child since I look so young for my age. BY NO MEANS did I suggest that I'm bugging out early. That would be an entirely different thread...

What's immature is your self-centered sense of entitlement. Everyone else's obligations/commitments/what-have-you are just as important to them as your kid is to you.

It obviously is about bugging out early or else there would be no reason for you to have to bring it up oh so slyly.

 

[tiredmom]

I've never had to have a specific way to bring up my children. My teammates know all about my kids... since most are my best buddies in school. I've only had to ask to leave early one day (when the babysitter had a car wreck and couldn't get to pick up my daughter from school), and it was on psych, so we had been done with the work for nearly 2 hours anyways. I don't ever count on being able to get them from school, my husband gets off at a reasonable, consistent time every day, so that is his responsibility. When I did get off early enough to get her (again only on psych so far), she was thrilled because it was a treat.

 

[fang]

At my school there's *no way* to leave every day by 5 (even if you come in early) and still get honors in each rotation (except maybe family medicine)-- you'd be leaving before your team every day and it wouldn't be good. Although you're not asking to leave early directly, by telling people you have a kid to pick up they're indirectly accomodating your schedule.

Directing time away from school to spend more with your baby is the right thing to do. I don't mind picking up the slack for other people with more important obligations, but I want to be recognized for it. You seem to expect that you should be able to leave before everyone else all the time AND be evaluated the same way (honors or whatever) just because it's a good reason to leave.

There's a lot of admiration and praise for people who want to do medical school AND kids, but I think they get a lot of help along the way from their less-obligated colleuges and don't always aknowledge it.

 

[Flea girl]

At my school there's *no way* to leave every day by 5 (even if you come in early) and still get honors in each rotation (except maybe family medicine)-- you'd be leaving before your team every day and it wouldn't be good. Although you're not asking to leave early directly, by telling people you have a kid to pick up they're indirectly accomodating your schedule.

Directing time away from school to spend more with your baby is the right thing to do. I don't mind picking up the slack for other people with more important obligations, but I want to be recognized for it. You seem to expect that you should be able to leave before everyone else all the time AND be evaluated the same way (honors or whatever) just because it's a good reason to leave.

There's a lot of admiration and praise for people who want to do medical school AND kids, but I think they get a lot of help along the way from their less-obligated colleuges and don't always aknowledge it.

I resent that remark. I have Never asked for special arrangements or treatment because I have kids. But I have a husband that works home and made the sacrifice to be the major caregiver for our kids until I am through with residency. Again this was OUR choice. Eveyone has to do what is right for them and their family. However, when someone makes the blanket statement that everone with kids get special treatment, or extra help, I think that is crap. I bust my butt just as much as the singletons that I have worked with. The only difference is that when the singletons go home they can sleep, read, or whatever. When I get home no matter how tired I am or how long I have worked, if my kids are up, I take over for my husband. This is the choice I made. This is what works for my family. But please refrain from making blanket statements. Medicine is hard enough without people trying to say who works harder than who.

 

[fang]

I resent that remark. I have Never asked for special arrangements or treatment because I have kids. But I have a husband that works home and made the sacrifice to be the major caregiver for our kids until I am through with residency. Again this was OUR choice. Eveyone has to do what is right for them and their family. However, when someone makes the blanket statement that everone with kids get special treatment, or extra help, I think that is crap. I bust my butt just as much as the singletons that I have worked with. The only difference is that when the singletons go home they can sleep, read, or whatever. When I get home no matter how tired I am or how long I have worked, if my kids are up, I take over for my husband. This is the choice I made. This is what works for my family. But please refrain from making blanket statements. Medicine is hard enough without people trying to say who works harder than who.

Yeah, it was a blanket statement and I know it doesn't apply to everyone. I fully agree that people should make their own choices about whether and when to start a family, and the best choice for one isn't the best for another. If those things don't apply to you, then I really admire what you're doing.

However, there are a lot of parents out there who at the worst expect people to accomodate their lives so that they can spend more time at home, and at the best keep bringing up their family in the hopes that people will cut them some slack at times for being unprepared/tired/whatever. Look at it from my perspective-- why should someone who chose to have kids during or before med school get to go home at certain predetermined times, get to postpone tests in the 1st 2 years for various obligations, or get to take their boards half way through the 3rd year when the rest of us had to stick with the schedule?

 

[DrMom]

My question was merely how do I mention that I have a child since I look so young for my age. BY NO MEANS did I suggest that I'm bugging out early. That would be an entirely different thread...

Just curious. What does it matter that you look young? By rotations time most everyone is at least 24, so age isn't too much of a mystery.

I have to agree with another poster. 5pm would be leaving early on most of my rotations...no matter what time students decide they need to get there in the morning to get their work done. For example, on most of my surgery days I was there before 5:45 and rarely left before 6:30 (often significantly later). Most of my rotations consists of 12 days of 12 hrs a day, then 2 days off. If you're getting a better deal than that, then be grateful.

 

[DrMom]

Look at it from my perspective-- why should someone who chose to have kids during or before med school get to go home at certain predetermined times, get to postpone tests in the 1st 2 years for various obligations, or get to take their boards half way through the 3rd year when the rest of us had to stick with the schedule?

If this is how your school is working it, I can understand your frustration.

 

[Flea girl]

Look at it from my perspective-- why should someone who chose to have kids during or before med school get to go home at certain predetermined times, get to postpone tests in the 1st 2 years for various obligations, or get to take their boards half way through the 3rd year when the rest of us had to stick with the schedule?

Well, from my experience I was not given the option to take my boards at a later date. I was 34 weeks pregnant and preeclamptic when I took my boards. No one offered nor did I expect to to defer my boards. Some may be given these options but I was not. You should not judge people just because they have kids. Not all of us expect special treatment.

 

[Sugar72]

why should someone who chose to have kids during or before med school get to go home at certain predetermined times, get to postpone tests in the 1st 2 years for various obligations, or get to take their boards half way through the 3rd year when the rest of us had to stick with the schedule?

I don't mean to be confrontational, but it seems like a person's decisions and the way people are able to navigate medical school - special accomodations and all are really that person's business. If they choose to leave early and not honor a rotation...if they choose to take boards later or whatever - that is their business.

I have a 2 yr old daughter and I, like Fleagirl, did not take advantage of any of the options my school gave me to make my life a little easier. I certainly don't resent, condemn, or villify any woman who does take those opportunities. Somebody is a busy body and it's not me.

however, to the OP just say " I have a daughter I have to pick up at 6 - is that going to be possible on this rotation...if not, I can find other options" My bet is that most people will say that is ok...unless you have this poster as your resident.

 

[ForbiddenComma]

If her children are not causing her to leave early or otherwise shirk her responsibilities, then I am not sure that I see the point of her post.

The whole "should mothers get to work flex time in school/residency?" argument is highly charged and inevitably turns into a male vs. female flame war. And as a girlyman, I would have divided loyalties on the subject so I stay away.

But that's not what's going on here. Lucinda has stated that she does not need to leave early. So, I ask, why is this even relevant?

No offense, Lucinda, but you are coming across sort of like one of those chicks who has to mention her boyfriend every chance she can, no matter how irrelevant to the conversation.

"So during a thyroidectomy, what major nerve should the surgeon try to avoid hitting?"
"Well I'm not sure, but MY BOYFRIEND's grandmother had goiter." <-- I get one of these chicks in every single rotation or lab group I get assigned to! What's the deal?

Anyway, my obvious point is that you're being like this, only with your daughter instead of your significant other. But either way, rest assured that nobody else could care one microgram less about your daughter/family/dog/ house/TV habits/grandma's goiter/your amazing self-professed ability to excel at both work and family making you the envy of everyone everywhere, a fact that must be dragged into any conversation at any time.

Don't burden your resident with this sort of stuff. All they want is for you not to triple their workload, as the saying goes. Instead, be like other people and seek your self-validation by writing extremely self-congratulatory stories about yourself on SDN... whoops, never mind, I see you're way ahead of me there sister!

 

[kaos]

I have a 2 yr old daughter and I, like Fleagirl, did not take advantage of any of the options my school gave me to make my life a little easier.

My school never gave me any options to "make my life easier," so I've had to stumble my way through every situation and exam. It's really as if I am one of those "singletons." I have a 5 yr old daughter in kindergarten now. My husband's work hours are horrendous, so I have to have one of my siblings walk her home from her bus stop every day. But that's beside the point...

The only one time I've asked to take time off for anything was during Medicine, when I asked for my daughter's first day of school off so I could figure out how her daily schedule was going to work. I really needed to, partly because I missed her orientation sessions and didn't know what the hell was going on. But when I asked my resident for the day off, telling her that I'd even forsake my other 3 days off in the month just to have that one day, she gave me grief and wouldn't give me a straight answer. I had to ask the attending if it was ok. And, in the end, I gave up my other days off, just so the resident wouldn't hold it over my head.

Yeah I brought it all on myself by deciding to have a kid before med school. But you know what? I overwork myself because I'm afraid that people who don't have kids begrudge me every little thing, even if they'll give days off for people who are involved in weddings and whatnot. This is my life--I don't need "special treatment" to sail through, and I haven't gotten any. The way I've been working is this: if the team doesn't need to know that I have a kid, I won't tell them. It is really irrelevant to my work day unless I have an urgent situation, and if there is, then I'll do what I have to do to deal with it.

It's probably very callous of me to think of things this way, and maybe I'm in some sort of denial about my family life, but because it's been difficult for me to deal with the med school/family life balance, I've found that this was the best way for me to work things through. So far so good!

 

[robotsonic]

I just want to take this opportunity to say that I think Flea Girl, kaos, and Sugar72 are awesome for accepting their responsibilities as mothers and as medical students and not whining about their need for accommodation.

Lucinda, I'm sure you are different in person, but your posts make you seem like a total schmuck. It's hard to be sympathetic toward you when you are so condescending to others and act so entitled about your right to leave every day at 5pm. Everyone on here knows that there is no guarantee that anyone will be allowed to leave at 5pm every day!

 

[ForensicsBound]

Lucinda...how can you be a mother and future doctor when you cannot even coherently put together a post. The following are your words:

"The issue isn't leaving EARLY....It's just letting them know that I'd like to pick her up. Pure and simple."

2 sentences later you state: "I have to pick her up by 6 pm - with traffic that means I need to leave by 5."

You're an idiot. Pure and simple. Leaving at 5 pm IS early. Are you a med student in Sweden or America? But you don't stop there:

"I come in EARLY - 4:30 to 5 am...so I've far outworked many of my colleagues who don't get into preround until 7, 7:30.......so I'm not bailing before MY portion of the work is done."

I wish we could all ANTICIPATE the work that needs to be done between 5-7 pm and do it in the morning. That way, we could ALL leave at 5 pm everyday. It's not like emergencies or unexpected things don't happen in medicine after 5 pm.

As others have pointed out, you sound like a schmuck.

 

[robotsonic]

I come in EARLY - 4:30 to 5 am...so I've far outworked many of my colleagues who don't get into preround until 7, 7:30.......so I'm not bailing before MY portion of the work is done.

This was another thing I was wondering about. If your colleagues don't preround until 7, that means you probably don't round until 7:30 or 8. So what exactly are you doing from 4:30 to 8? Usually the plan for the day is decided during rounds, so there isn't much point to coming in 2 or 3 hours earlier than your colleagues. Sorry, but working the hours from 4:30am to 7:30am doesn't make up for missing the much busier early evening hours.

 

[VFTW]

Spoken like someone without children. I would hardly liken raising a child to a game of pick-up football. Hopefully, one day you'll get it.

yeah, but we're not responsible for your life choices, nor are we responsible for your seeming inability to hire a babysitter/nanny to pick up your kid. You don't get out of clinical responsibilities just because you're too cheap to hire a nanny or because you decided to procreate. That's totally unfair.

 

[VFTW]

The only difference is that when the singletons go home they can sleep, read, or whatever. When I get home no matter how tired I am or how long I have worked, if my kids are up, I take over for my husband. This is the choice I made. This is what works for my family. But please refrain from making blanket statements. Medicine is hard enough without people trying to say who works harder than who.

No, when people without kids get home, they have to take care of all the household duties that they're not splitting with a spouse, and cook, clean, etc, after themselves because they don't have someone around who can stay home all day to do so.

You don't have it harder than single people. You just like to think you do and that your quest is somehow much more noble since you have kids.

 

[kaos]

No, when people without kids get home, they have to take care of all the household duties that they're not splitting with a spouse, and cook, clean, etc, after themselves because they don't have someone around who can stay home all day to do so.

That's assuming that there is someone who can stay at home and do those things.

 

[kaos]

yeah, but we're not responsible for your life choices, nor are we responsible for your seeming inability to hire a babysitter/nanny to pick up your kid. You don't get out of clinical responsibilities just because you're too cheap to hire a nanny or because you decided to procreate. That's totally unfair.

It's also unfair to assume that we can all afford to have a nanny to watch our kids. You obviously have no idea how expensive they can be. It's like taking another loan out for a whole year of med school tuition. I've found that if people are lucky and their families live nearby, they have their mothers or mothers-in-law watch their kids. Even residents do that.
Kids are pricy, yo.

 

[VFTW]

That's assuming that there is someone who can stay at home and do those things.

I was referring to the poster I quoted, who does have a husband and stated that he works from home.

It's also unfair to assume that we can all afford to have a nanny to watch our kids. You obviously have no idea how expensive they can be. It's like taking another loan out for a whole year of med school tuition. I've found that if people are lucky and their families live nearby, they have their mothers or mothers-in-law watch their kids. Even residents do that.
Kids are pricy, yo.

Believe me, I know that kids are pricy, nannies are pricy, etc, but why do *I* have to pay for your reproductive choices? If you are unable to financially support your child AND complete your responsibilities without leaving at 5:00p every damn day of a rotation, then you *never should have had children while in medical school, period.* Leaving the rest of us to clean up your mess because you can't afford childcare is ridiculous, and I wouldn't do it.

 

[kaos]

Leaving the rest of us to clean up your mess because you can't afford childcare is ridiculous, and I wouldn't do it.

And neither would I. I don't personally know anyone who purposely puts themselves in the situation where they couldn't do their job to the fullest because of commitments to their outside lives. And if they do, I'm sure they're absolutely caught by the attendings and residents who evaluate us--it'll catch up with them in the end.

We're all there to do what we have to every day, it's the same for ALL of us.

 

[cytoskelement]

Maybe I'm missing some apparently huge part of my medical education - but never once has a colleague leaving early increased my workload disproportionately. I find myself walking around and talking to my patients for lack of other "things" to do. Most of the time, when my classmates are all accounted for, I'm asking them if they need help 'cause I is bored ****less. Oh that's right, I should probably write the 50th set of admit orders for CP r/o MI that both the intern and resident will write again. They'd be p!ssed if the medical student didn't get a chance to do it first.

 

[Flea girl]

No, when people without kids get home, they have to take care of all the household duties that they're not splitting with a spouse, and cook, clean, etc, after themselves because they don't have someone around who can stay home all day to do so.

You don't have it harder than single people. You just like to think you do and that your quest is somehow much more noble since you have kids.

Did I ever say that my quest was more noble? No I do not think so. Do I think I have it harder than a single person...Sorry yes I do but that was the choice I made. Am I b*tching and complaining, and wanting special treatment, no. My life is different than yours and maybe a bit more difficult. But hey that is my choice. Look I have lived alone and I know the difference. I am not going to get into a pissing war here. WE ALL WORK HARD. Oh, and by the way, I am not going into medicine for any noble reasons, I just love what I do. That's why I do what I do and make the sacrifices, just like the rest.

 

[odrade1]

Spoken like someone without children. I would hardly liken raising a child to a game of pick-up football. Hopefully, one day you'll get it.

From the original post, it follows that Lucinda wants to get to go home earlier than usual, and to do so with regularity. She shouldn't be allowed to do this unless she trades favors with the other student/employees on the service, after apologizing for implying that her time is more valuable because she chose to enrich her life by starting a family.

I worked full time through undergrad to pay for school, and there were many times that I wanted to leave work early to study. This is an example of a personal conflict between work & serious personal obligations. If my employer let me leave early (for school) it would be unfair unless others got to leave early, or I compensated the other employees for their (additional) work. My time studying has the same value to them that their time watching NASCAR and drinking has to me. The same is true of people with kids. My view is that properly caring for children is (arguably) the most important thing that someone does in life. However, I would rather you reorder your life so that the child is cared for, rather than you ask to leave a rotation early, if others can't too. My time spent with my lover and friends are as important to me as the child is to you. And even if it *wasn't*, The fact that you have kids shouldn't lead to you getting to have your rotation end earlier than anyone else, regardless of the (non-emergent) reason. So don't expect a sympathetic ear.

Parents are ubiquitious in our society, and most of the young parents I see tend to either reflect an attitude of entitlement to special considerations (because of the kids), or even open discourtesy to others. The degree to which this happens differs across individuals, yet I see it every day. You obviously care more about your kids than you do your co-workers time. Which, incendentally, is what we want parents--as parents--to be like. However, as a student/unpaid employee, I don't care about the personal obligations of others unless they are 1) emergent or 2) that person is my good friend. If a close family member dies, is hospitalized, or needs emergency care, you get to leave work early AND have a personal day. If you wish to be treated equally as a student/coworker, the parental considerations for leaving early vanish. We ALL want to go home. And I care more about my dogs than I do about your kids.

Don't ever ask someone to cover for you so you can leave early because of your kids, unless they are truly your good friend, and you should pray your fellows don't hear you asking the person in charge to leave for that reason. Otherwise, your implication that your time is more valuable than theirs WILL be guaranteed to offend.

 

[ForensicsBound]

I think we have established that Lucinda is indeed a Schmuck.

It's unanimous.

 

[monkey7247]

From the original post, it follows that Lucinda wants to get to go home earlier than usual, and to do so with regularity. She shouldn't be allowed to do this unless she trades favors with the other student/employees on the service, after apologizing for implying that her time is more valuable because she chose to enrich her life by starting a family.

I worked full time through undergrad to pay for school, and there were many times that I wanted to leave work early to study. This is an example of a personal conflict between work & serious personal obligations. If my employer let me leave early (for school) it would be unfair unless others got to leave early, or I compensated the other employees for their (additional) work. My time studying has the same value to them that their time watching NASCAR and drinking has to me. The same is true of people with kids. My view is that properly caring for children is (arguably) the most important thing that someone does in life. However, I would rather you reorder your life so that the child is cared for, rather than you ask to leave a rotation early, if others can't too. My time spent with my lover and friends are as important to me as the child is to you. And even if it *wasn't*, The fact that you have kids shouldn't lead to you getting to have your rotation end earlier than anyone else, regardless of the (non-emergent) reason. So don't expect a sympathetic ear.

Parents are ubiquitious in our society, and most of the young parents I see tend to either reflect an attitude of entitlement to special considerations (because of the kids), or even open discourtesy to others. The degree to which this happens differs across individuals, yet I see it every day. You obviously care more about your kids than you do your co-workers time. Which, incendentally, is what we want parents--as parents--to be like. However, as a student/unpaid employee, I don't care about the personal obligations of others unless they are 1) emergent or 2) that person is my good friend. If a close family member dies, is hospitalized, or needs emergency care, you get to leave work early AND have a personal day. If you wish to be treated equally as a student/coworker, the parental considerations for leaving early vanish. We ALL want to go home. And I care more about my dogs than I do about your kids.

Don't ever ask someone to cover for you so you can leave early because of your kids, unless they are truly your good friend, and you should pray your fellows don't hear you asking the person in charge to leave for that reason. Otherwise, your implication that your time is more valuable than theirs WILL be guaranteed to offend.

Well said.

 

[sapience8x]

Lucinda, I had to scrap my motherly duties and get my husband or someone from both sets of grandparents to pick up my son. I do expect to leave on time post call though because i think that it is time to get home to my family. I never feel as if i am leaving work for my classmates because everyone goes home post call and whatever work they depend on us for gets absorbed. i don't think that they depnd on us for anything though. i used to try really hard to not seem like i was asking for any exceptions but when i saw my classmates trading call to play soccer, getting out of duties to go to a wedding, basically living THEIR life the way they wanted i decided to do the same, knowing that this can't happen every day. so when my son had a soccer game one weekend when i was on call, i was there. i was gone for an hour and no one missed me.
YOu also need to think what you are going to do in the future. realize that many medical careers won't allow you to pick up your daughter every day. what will you do then? do what i did- researched a specialty that will allow me a life.

 

[ssdoc]

Lucinda, I had to scrap my motherly duties and get my husband or someone from both sets of grandparents to pick up my son. I do expect to leave on time post call though because i think that it is time to get home to my family. I never feel as if i am leaving work for my classmates because everyone goes home post call and whatever work they depend on us for gets absorbed. i don't think that they depnd on us for anything though. i used to try really hard to not seem like i was asking for any exceptions but when i saw my classmates trading call to play soccer, getting out of duties to go to a wedding, basically living THEIR life the way they wanted i decided to do the same, knowing that this can't happen every day. so when my son had a soccer game one weekend when i was on call, i was there. i was gone for an hour and no one missed me.
YOu also need to think what you are going to do in the future. realize that many medical careers won't allow you to pick up your daughter every day. what will you do then? do what i did- researched a specialty that will allow me a life.

Can I ask what you chose?

 

[kaos]

Lucinda, I had to scrap my motherly duties and get my husband or someone from both sets of grandparents to pick up my son. I do expect to leave on time post call though because i think that it is time to get home to my family. I never feel as if i am leaving work for my classmates because everyone goes home post call and whatever work they depend on us for gets absorbed. i don't think that they depnd on us for anything though. i used to try really hard to not seem like i was asking for any exceptions but when i saw my classmates trading call to play soccer, getting out of duties to go to a wedding, basically living THEIR life the way they wanted i decided to do the same, knowing that this can't happen every day. so when my son had a soccer game one weekend when i was on call, i was there. i was gone for an hour and no one missed me.
YOu also need to think what you are going to do in the future. realize that many medical careers won't allow you to pick up your daughter every day. what will you do then? do what i did- researched a specialty that will allow me a life.

Hear hear! I find I'm doing pretty much the same thing in terms of work schedule, except I just leave when I'm told to leave, which is pretty late in the evening.
My biggest problem is that the fields I'm interested in have the worst schedules, so I'm pretty much left to behave as if I have no family. I feel quite unmotherly for doing it, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make (let's hope I don't regret it in the future!).

 

[ExtraCrispy]

Lucinda, I'm confused by your original question. I don't understand why saying, "I have a young daughter whom I'll need to pick up from daycare early on X days" is a problem. If you're that concerned about it, you could even contact the course director ahead of time to ask permission. Why the weird games? Just be direct.

That said, I do think that it's unrealistic to expect to leave at 5 pm every day on a rotation, particularly on the more time-intensive ones. I won't discuss this as a matter of "fairness," as many have, because I think that argument misses the larger point. Just as you're responsible for your child, you have a responsibility to your patients, and to ensuring that everything required is done for them by the end of the day. As students, it's easy to take a back seat and think of everything in terms of how it affects your grade and your education, but that's really distorting priorities on the wards and missing the point. You've chosen a career in medicine - and before you can succeed at all, you need to make a decision to dedicate your time to your patients. Period. It starts during the clinical years. You can't expect to leave at 5pm every day because it's unlikely that your patients will be tucked in and secure by 5 pm every day, and as a provider you have a responsibility for them.

I'd do my best to make other arrangements for your daughter, a babysitter or spouse to pick her up, etc. On the odd occasion when you HAVE to leave early to pick her up (and this should be the exception, not the rule), just be forthright and say so.

 

[ExtraCrispy]

kaos, flea girl, etc....I'd just like to say thank you, for your dedication and for inspiring us. I have deep respect for the challenges you've face in tackling medicine & motherhood at the same time.

 

[jennyboo]

Boy there are a bunch of idiots posting in this thread.

Lucinda, just ask truthfully and see what happens. You may not be able to leave at 5 every day. But, most people understand making a reasonable accommodation for such situations, and if you're able to bend a little, they may too.

 

[LO281OK]

Boy there are a bunch of idiots posting in this thread.

Lucinda, just ask truthfully and see what happens. You may not be able to leave at 5 every day. But, most people understand making a reasonable accommodation for such situations, and if you're able to bend a little, they may too.

I like those idiots. I know I am coming from the male side on this and without an accommodating spouse the female students do have a harder road, but... from my time in the Navy I have to agree with those who say suck it up. You must accommodate for your responsibility. A medical education is not cheap and my wife is going to continue to stay at home with our 3 kids during school. I know if we can afford that, then you can afford to have someone pick up your child and take care of her.

If they allow you to go early, then good-for-you and shame-on-them. You are a medical student which is, by its very nature, a transient training environment. When you have finished your residency then fine, take off early, but since this will not last forever and the time there has a training value it is not appropriate for you to bail early.

 

[fang]

I don't mean to be confrontational, but it seems like a person's decisions and the way people are able to navigate medical school - special accomodations and all are really that person's business. If they choose to leave early and not honor a rotation...if they choose to take boards later or whatever - that is their business.
your resident.

I don't care if someone leaves early or studies less if they have outside obligations, as long as those choices are not answered with something like "well, she did leave early most days, but she has 3 kids at home so I guess I'll give her an honors anyway." What bothers me, and it *is* my business, is that people with kids often have options that the rest of us don't have. I think everyone in medical school should have the same expectations and requirements regardless of what they do in their free time.

Flea girl
"You should not judge people just because they have kids. Not all of us expect special treatment."

I'm not judging you because you have kids-- my 2nd post should have made that clear. I AM judging people who think the choice to have kids entitles a student to special treatment... you say that's not the case with you, so I guess we agree. And yeah, I think most parents do expect some kind special treatment or leniency because of their obligations.

 

[Smurfette]

Very interesting thread with very interesting responses.

I can say, as a resident, that if I had a med student ask me to be able to leave at 5 pm every day of their rotation to pick up his/her kid from preschool, I would think it an unreasonable request. Not because I am some cruel un-understanding being, but because the student should really have thought to make other arrangements. Afterall, you knew well in advance the potential long hours you'd be working. Emergencies are different, but everyday is NOT an emergency. If I routinely let one person leave at 5, then everyone should be able to leave early. Regardless of not doing much as a med student (and we've all been med students and we know that hospital life goes on regardless of student presence), you still need to learn...if not clinical information then other things such as how hospitals work, how things get done and other "passive learning" that you learn from being there. The issue is not how much work or learning happens after five, but what is happening in itself. Why should student A who is caring for an ill parent not be allowed to go home early every night, but student B with a child can? Or the single med student who has some other obligation?

In residency, you won't be able to leave by 5 pm regularly unless you have some sort of magic program out there. Your daughter will still be your obligation then too, but I am sure you would plan ahead. Why, then, do you not plan ahead while a med student?

(Just curious: if your husband is a stay-at-home dad, why can't he pick up your child? You said picking up your daughter wasn't a problem is you were on call...so who helps you out on those days and why can't they do it all the time?)