flasheroonie

Teddy Bear
7+ Year Member
May 24, 2010
41
31
TARDIS
Status
Attending Physician
A friend is pursuing fellowship training in the future and she wants to know how to find out which programs are participating in the match or not? On Frieda, only programs that have a complete profile listed will mention yes/no about NRMP. Those programs that have an abbreviated profile on Frieda do not mention whether or not they are participating in the match. Any ideas?
 

Animalcules

2+ Year Member
Oct 17, 2015
336
305
Status
Fellow [Any Field]
A friend is pursuing fellowship training in the future and she wants to know how to find out which programs are participating in the match or not? On Frieda, only programs that have a complete profile listed will mention yes/no about NRMP. Those programs that have an abbreviated profile on Frieda do not mention whether or not they are participating in the match. Any ideas?
Programs participating in the match will show up in myERAS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
OP
flasheroonie

flasheroonie

Teddy Bear
7+ Year Member
May 24, 2010
41
31
TARDIS
Status
Attending Physician
I think she just found a program that is participating in ERAS but not in NRMP. Here's what happened: she applied to a program that just sent her an email saying "Thank you so much for your interest in our program. We have filled our July 2018 position and will not be extending further invitations during this recruitment season." It's not a rejection for invitation; it's a statement that they've prematched someone. Their website doesn't say anything about not being in the match this year. If what you're saying is true, doesn't a program have to be all-in or all-out of the match? They shouldn't be allowed to be in and then pull out.
 

Bean_Bunny

2+ Year Member
Sep 20, 2014
100
13
Status
Resident [Any Field]
You need to email programs to confirm unfortunately. There's no other set way. ERAS and NRMP are not the same thing. Just because they accept applications through ERAS does not mean they will be using NRMP for the match.
 
OP
flasheroonie

flasheroonie

Teddy Bear
7+ Year Member
May 24, 2010
41
31
TARDIS
Status
Attending Physician
Sounds like this program was very sneaky. They never said anything about not being in the match on their website. By what date do programs have to be all-in or all-out? I always assumed this had to be a decision made before they sent out invites to prevent a program from pulling out of the match during interview season just to offer a pre-match position to one or two fellowship candidates.
 

AdmiralChz

ASA Member
10+ Year Member
Sep 8, 2008
3,300
2,727
Mid-Atlantic
Status
Attending Physician
Sounds like this program was very sneaky. They never said anything about not being in the match on their website. By what date do programs have to be all-in or all-out? I always assumed this had to be a decision made before they sent out invites to prevent a program from pulling out of the match during interview season just to offer a pre-match position to one or two fellowship candidates.
This totally depends on the specialty. Some require the programs use the NRMP algorithm and have rigid rules about it, some (usually smaller specialties) just use ERAS and have more lax rules. Others still don't use ERAS at all and just do things on their own or use the SF Match process which is entirely different. So we can't really answer your question without more information.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bean_Bunny
OP
flasheroonie

flasheroonie

Teddy Bear
7+ Year Member
May 24, 2010
41
31
TARDIS
Status
Attending Physician

mvenus929

10+ Year Member
Jul 6, 2006
6,875
1,642
Status
Fellow [Any Field]
I think she just found a program that is participating in ERAS but not in NRMP. Here's what happened: she applied to a program that just sent her an email saying "Thank you so much for your interest in our program. We have filled our July 2018 position and will not be extending further invitations during this recruitment season." It's not a rejection for invitation; it's a statement that they've prematched someone. Their website doesn't say anything about not being in the match this year. If what you're saying is true, doesn't a program have to be all-in or all-out of the match? They shouldn't be allowed to be in and then pull out.
I think the 'all-in' is at the program, not institution level. One of the programs I was going to apply to in fellowship made a similar comment, but they only had one position, so if they wanted to fill with an internal candidate, then they'd just not participate in the match. It's not supposed to happen that way, but it does.
 

Animalcules

2+ Year Member
Oct 17, 2015
336
305
Status
Fellow [Any Field]
There is no binding all-in policy on the fellowship level. Programs can pre-match some applicants and then just report fewer spots to go through the match.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
OP
flasheroonie

flasheroonie

Teddy Bear
7+ Year Member
May 24, 2010
41
31
TARDIS
Status
Attending Physician
Wow. That's a very a-hole move to do so, methinks. Thanks for the info, guys. SDN never fails.
 

rokshana

Member
15+ Year Member
Sep 20, 2004
3,946
3,838
Status
Attending Physician
I think she just found a program that is participating in ERAS but not in NRMP. Here's what happened: she applied to a program that just sent her an email saying "Thank you so much for your interest in our program. We have filled our July 2018 position and will not be extending further invitations during this recruitment season." It's not a rejection for invitation; it's a statement that they've prematched someone. Their website doesn't say anything about not being in the match this year. If what you're saying is true, doesn't a program have to be all-in or all-out of the match? They shouldn't be allowed to be in and then pull out.
that's for residency programs...its not mandatory for fellowship programs.
 

rokshana

Member
15+ Year Member
Sep 20, 2004
3,946
3,838
Status
Attending Physician
Both ID and Nephrology have made it mandatory. Any program that doesn't fill through the match can no longer attend their annual meetings, I believe.
that is interesting that the 2 IM fellowships with lowest fill rate are the ones requiring programs to be all in...are they hoping that it will increase their % of programs matching?
 
OP
flasheroonie

flasheroonie

Teddy Bear
7+ Year Member
May 24, 2010
41
31
TARDIS
Status
Attending Physician
Both ID and Nephrology have made it mandatory. Any program that doesn't fill through the match can no longer attend their annual meetings, I believe.
I'd love to see where that's in writing, if it is.

that is interesting that the 2 IM fellowships with lowest fill rate are the ones requiring programs to be all in...are they hoping that it will increase their % of programs matching?
I guess those subspecialties are forced to SOAP if they have unmatched positions.
 

AdmiralChz

ASA Member
10+ Year Member
Sep 8, 2008
3,300
2,727
Mid-Atlantic
Status
Attending Physician
that is interesting that the 2 IM fellowships with lowest fill rate are the ones requiring programs to be all in...are they hoping that it will increase their % of programs matching?
Probably. Centralized application services make it incredibly easy to apply to a variety of programs you might not know about, just a few clicks!
 

aProgDirector

Pastafarians Unite!
Moderator
10+ Year Member
Oct 11, 2006
8,281
7,165
Status
Attending Physician
I'd love to see where that's in writing, if it is.
All In Policy: Fellowship Matches - The Match, National Resident Matching Program

ID: IDSA : FAQs for All-In Match Policy Change

Neph: American Society of Nephrology | Nephrology Training - Nephrology Match

I guess those subspecialties are forced to SOAP if they have unmatched positions.
There is no SOAP for fellowships. It's a plain scramble free for all. And there tend to be more spots than applicants.
 
OP
flasheroonie

flasheroonie

Teddy Bear
7+ Year Member
May 24, 2010
41
31
TARDIS
Status
Attending Physician

ThoracicGuy

5+ Year Member
Jun 11, 2013
9,600
23,468
Status
Attending Physician
Wow. That's a very a-hole move to do so, methinks. Thanks for the info, guys. SDN never fails.
If a program has one spot and they know who they would rank first, going ahead and filling the spot and not doing interviews saves other people time and money by not applying.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bean_Bunny
OP
flasheroonie

flasheroonie

Teddy Bear
7+ Year Member
May 24, 2010
41
31
TARDIS
Status
Attending Physician
If a program has one spot and they know who they would rank first, going ahead and filling the spot and not doing interviews saves other people time and money by not applying.
This notice was sent after most people applied for the fellowship application cycle, like a week ago.
 

AdmiralChz

ASA Member
10+ Year Member
Sep 8, 2008
3,300
2,727
Mid-Atlantic
Status
Attending Physician
This notice was sent after most people applied for the fellowship application cycle, like a week ago.
Well, I'm not sure what else you want us to say but "bummer." If they've found their fellowship class (especially if they decide to go all internal), who can blame them for cutting it off - you wouldn't want your time wasted (on flights, hotels, vacations and meals...) nor would they want to waste theirs. Move on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThoracicGuy

gutonc

No Meat, No Treat
Staff member
Administrator
10+ Year Member
Mar 6, 2005
18,361
11,319
Status
Attending Physician
Well, I'm not sure what else you want us to say but "bummer." If they've found their fellowship class (especially if they decide to go all internal), who can blame them for cutting it off - you wouldn't want your time wasted (on flights, hotels, vacations and meals...) nor would they want to waste theirs. Move on.
Seriously man. We're talking about wasting $25. Not chump change, but not the end of the world. Move on and forget this ever happened.
 
OP
flasheroonie

flasheroonie

Teddy Bear
7+ Year Member
May 24, 2010
41
31
TARDIS
Status
Attending Physician
Not my problem. I'll let my friend know. :thumbup: