How is it fair....

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Stop whining. UChicago is hard, but many students make it into great med schools. Don't make everyone on SDN think that we are all arrogant asshats.
 
gregoryhouse said:
As someone who graduated from a "crappy" college and is killing M1, I think OP is in for a shock once med school starts.
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Ok, congrats. :claps: You were qualified and got in. Too bad many other qualified students aren't given a second look.
And of course you had an easier time getting in.
 
nigerianphoenix said:
Stop whining. UChicago is hard, but many students make it into great med schools. Don't make everyone on SDN think that we are all arrogant asshats.
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Right the top do. But everyone at UChicago is more than qualified.
I don't go there though. 😉
 
nigerianphoenix said:
Stop whining. UChicago is hard, but many students make it into great med schools. Don't make everyone on SDN think that we are all arrogant asshats.
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Lol strong 1st post and a random assumption that OP goes to UChicago. Talk about epic fail :naughty:
 
PurpleLove said:
No...... But I highly doubt I'd be complaining if I couldn't get As at a non-deflating school. I'd give up.

That's why I want to attend a 100 ranked school this summer. See how I can do. If I struggle at all, I'll give up completely.

If I don't, my argument still stands.
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I think OP should give up. Has no self accountability and full of complaints (about things he can't change no less)
 
Agent B said:
Lol strong 1st post and a random assumption that OP goes to UChicago. Talk about epic fail :naughty:
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in all fairness, like half of the school specific references have been UChicago.
Not many people have talked about Hopkins.
 
PurpleLove said:
Ok, congrats. :claps: You were qualified and got in. Too bad many other qualified students aren't given a second look.
And of course you had an easier time getting in.
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Perhaps I did have an easier time getting in. My comment wasn't really in reference to that.

This attitude you have that since you go to a hard school that means you will have an easier time in med school compared to others is going to end up bad. If you are struggling to be above average against your peers now, what do you think is going to happen in medical school where the classes are filled with top candidates who are most likely in the top 10 of your school? You aren't magically going to become a superstar in medical school because you went to a top school vs people who went to "easy" schools.

Good luck with everything though.
 
gregoryhouse said:
Perhaps I did have an easier time getting in. My comment wasn't really in reference to that.

This attitude you have that since you go to a hard school that means you will have an easier time in med school compared to others is going to end up bad. If you are struggling to be above average against your peers now, what do you think is going to happen in medical school where the classes are filled with top candidates who are most likely in the top 10 of your school? You aren't magically going to become a superstar in medical school because you went to a top school vs people who went to "easy" schools.

Good luck with everything though.
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Do med schools deflate too?
I don't necessarily think I'll do better than people who went to easy schools, but I'll probably be adjusted to a large amount of work.
 
knv2u said:
I would like to see some of your exams.
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Agreed.

Op- congrats, you found the first chemistry exam - since it still has nomenclature.

Ps, some schools write exams to aim for a 50% average and curve to a 70-75%, I don't hear the world ending type of complaints from them
 
Long time SDN poster, but I'm posting with this new account because I don't want everyone to know where I go to college. (Mods please don't ban me. I know this is a sockpuppet account, but I'm not trying to troll here!)

I'm a current senior at Hopkins with a 3.8+ GPA and multiple top 20 med school acceptances. So when it comes to all this BS about JHU being so hard and preventing people from getting into med school, I have just two words for you: shut up! Your incessant whining is making us all look bad.

Yes, JHU has a lower average GPA than some of its peer institutions (3.2 at JHU vs. 3.4 at Wash U, U Chicago, and Northwestern), but the standard deviation seems to be relatively high. Based on the admissions cutoffs for Phi Beta Kappa and Tau Beta Pi, it seems that about 1/8 of Hopkins students have a 3.85 or above and 1/5 have a 3.75 or above. That is really quite generous compared to, say, U Chicago.

And yes, JHU is a lot harder than some state schools. I have a friend who took the first semester of orgo at JHU and struggled through it, earning a B in the end. This friend decided to take the second semester back home at a US News top 100 university, and he says that the difference was night and day. He only started studying two or three nights before each exam and earned high A’s on all of them. But this guy had a 3.6 sGPA at Hopkins, and to be entirely honest, I don't think it is even remotely possible that someone with a 3.2 sGPA at Hopkins would be a superstar at a lower end state school.

I know lots of people at Hopkins with 3.2ish sGPAs. I also know exactly why they have 3.2ish GPAs. Because their six hour study sessions are really four hours of Facebook and two hours of studying. On the flip side, people who do really well (3.9+) go above and beyond what is required. They not only put in ~20 hours of real (no Facebook) studying in the weeks before the exam, but also 2 - 3 hours a day when the next exam is over a month away. They spend time reading papers relevant to their PI's research even though he/she did not ask them to. They ask grad students at the lab to show them new techniques even though they do not have to know them.

I think that anyone putting in a decent amount of effort should be able to get at least a 3.5 sGPA at JHU, if not a 3.6 or 3.7. A student with a 3.5 sGPA will have a great shot at getting into some top-notch medical schools. (See the last few posts in this thread that others have already linked to: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/lets-bash-johns-hopkins-ug.902247/) In any case, you have no right to complain about grade deflation until you’ve taken the MCAT. Do you really think you’d be in the top 5% of students at some random state school? Then let’s see you score in at least the top 10% on the MCAT.

And you're playing down all the things that make JHU so great. Most of our lecturers are great (after four years and classes with some forty professors, there have only been two or three that I didn't like), and with the excellent student to faculty ratio, you also have the chance to get know your professors outside of class and on a personal level. Most students at JHU are also pleasantly surprised to find out that the cut-throat reputation is a relic of the 80s and that the overall atmosphere is very friendly.

Sure, this place is no HYPSM, but we are so fortunate to be paired with JHU SoM. There is an incredible amount of research money pouring into our university. We have four Nobel Laureates currently working for the university, and three of those four employ undergraduates in their labs. We have dozens and dozens of physicians that are literally the best in their fields and most of them are more than happy to have an undergrad shadow them or help them with a clinical research project.

In addition to all the opportunities at the med school, there are plenty of spots for undergraduate research assistants at the Space Telescope Science Institute (which runs a lot of the Hubble missions), the Applied Physics Lab (which runs the New Horizons mission and handles loads of DoD projects). The Bloomberg School of Public Health (the best public health school in the nation) and the Peabody Conservatory (one of the top four or five music schools in the country) are just a short shuttle ride away, and it's pretty easy for undergrads take classes there.

All of these opportunities are at your fingertips, waiting for you to take the initiative and reach out and grab them. A lot of students never take that initiative, but that is no fault of the university.

So stop whining. You made several choices. You chose to go to a difficult school, you chose to do one of the more difficult majors at that school, you chose not to study enough for your exams, and now you've chosen to ignore all the nice things about your school and go onto a public internet forum to complain about how terribly unfair the system is.

On that note, considering that there are only about 15 sophomore chem majors at JHU, it could be pretty easy for someone to identify you. Maybe another Hopkins student. Maybe your advisor from the pre-health office. (Yes, they do read SDN.) You don't seem to be painting the best picture of yourself right now, so be mindful of how the content of your posts might affect you in the future.
 
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oesdis56 said:
Long time SDN poster, but I'm posting with this new account because I don't want everyone to know where I go to college. (Mods please don't ban me. I know this is a sockpuppet account, but I'm not trying to troll here!)

I'm a current senior at Hopkins with a 3.8+ GPA and multiple top 20 med school acceptances. So when it comes to all this BS about JHU being so hard and preventing people from getting into med school, I have just two words for you: shut up! Your incessant whining is making us all look bad.

Yes, JHU has a lower average GPA than some of its peer institutions (3.2 at JHU vs. 3.4 - 3.5 at Wash U, U Chicago, and Northwestern), but the standard deviation seems to be relatively high. Based on the admissions cutoffs for Phi Beta Kappa and Tau Beta Pi, it seems that about 1/8 of Hopkins students have a 3.85 or above and 1/5 have a 3.75 or above. That is really quite generous compared to, say, U Chicago.

And yes, JHU is a lot harder than some state schools. I have a friend who took the first semester of orgo at JHU and struggled through it, earning a B in the end. This friend decided to take the second semester back home at a US News top 100 university, and he says that the difference was night and day. He only started studying two or three nights before each exam and earned high A’s on all of them. But this guy had a 3.6 sGPA at Hopkins, and to be entirely honest, I don't think it is even remotely possible that someone with a 3.2 sGPA at Hopkins would be a superstar at a lower end state school.

I know lots of people at Hopkins with 3.2ish sGPAs. I also know exactly why they have 3.2ish GPAs. Because their six hour study sessions are really four hours of Facebook and two hours of studying. On the flip side, people who do really well (3.9+) go above and beyond what is required. They not only put in ~20 hours of real (no Facebook) studying in the weeks before the exam, but also 2 - 3 hours a day when the next exam is over a month away. They spend time reading papers relevant to their PI's research even though he/she did not ask them to. They ask grad students at the lab to show them new techniques even though they do not have to know them.

I think that anyone putting in a decent amount of effort should be able to get at least a 3.5 sGPA at JHU, if not a 3.6 or 3.7. A student with a 3.5 sGPA will have a great shot at getting into some top-notch medical schools. (See the last few posts in this thread that others have already linked to: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/lets-bash-johns-hopkins-ug.902247/) In any case, you have no right to complain about grade deflation until you’ve taken the MCAT. Do you really think you’d be in the top 5% of students at some random state school? Then let’s see you score in at least the top 10% on the MCAT.

And you're playing down all the things that make JHU so great. Most of our lecturers are great (after four years and classes with some forty professors, there have only been two or three that I didn't like), and with the excellent student to faculty ratio, you also have the chance to get know your professors outside of class and on a personal level. Most students at JHU are also pleasantly surprised to find out that the cut-throat reputation is a relic of the 80s and that the overall atmosphere is very friendly.

Sure, this place is no HYPSM, but we are so fortunate to be paired with JHU SoM. There is an incredible amount of research money pouring into our university. We have four Nobel Laureates currently working for the university, and three of those four employ undergraduates in their labs. We have dozens and dozens of physicians that are literally the best in their fields and most of them are more than happy to have an undergrad shadow them or help them with a clinical research project.

In addition to all the opportunities at the med school, there are plenty of spots for undergraduate research assistants at the Space Telescope Science Institute (which runs a lot of the Hubble missions), the Applied Physics Lab (which runs the New Horizons mission and handles loads of DoD projects). The Bloomberg School of Public Health (the best public health school in the nation) and the Peabody Conservatory (one of the top four or five music schools in the country) are just a short shuttle ride away, and it's pretty easy for undergrads take classes there.

All of these opportunities are at your fingertips, waiting for you to take the initiative and reach out and grab them. A lot of students never take that initiative, but that is no fault of the university.

So stop whining. You made several choices. You chose to go to a difficult school, you chose to do one of the more difficult majors at that school, you chose not to study enough for your exams, and now you've chosen to ignore all the nice things about your school and go onto a public internet forum to complain about how terribly unfair the system is.

On that note, considering that there are only about 15 sophomore chem majors at JHU, it could be pretty easy for someone to identify you. Maybe another Hopkins student. Maybe your advisor from the pre-health office. (Yes, they do read SDN.) You don't seem to be painting the best picture of yourself right now, so be mindful of how the content of your posts might affect you in the future.
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TBpRfIv.gif


citation: Boolean

In other news, with this one post your post to quality ratio is through the roof.
 
You seriously think all premeds in a class aren't studying their asses off? That only those top 5 people or so are?
Okay, sure!

I also don't have time to grab ALL the opportunities available to me.
 
PurpleLove said:
You seriously think all premeds in a class aren't studying their asses off? That only those top 5 people or so are?
Okay, sure!

I also don't have time to grab ALL the opportunities available to me.
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They definitely are not. Undergrad isn't hard. GPA is 100% dependent on time spent studying. Enough = A. Not enough = some other grade.
 
Rik1111 said:
They definitely are not. Undergrad isn't hard. GPA is 100% dependent on time spent studying. Enough = A. Not enough = some other grade.
Click to expand...
But even if everyone did, there would still be the same distribution..... Top get As, next get Bs, etc.
 
PurpleLove said:
But even if everyone did, there would still be the same distribution..... Top get As, next get Bs, etc.
Click to expand...

True, but we've all been in "hard" classes without curves, just set grade thresholds, wherein the class (shockingly) falls into a normal distribution.

People are lazy mf'ers and profs know it. The amount of lazy mf'ers is directly related to the amount of students in the class.
 
Kochanie said:
This post is making me realize I need to take advantage of the great opportunities available to me at my school. 😀
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Agreed! One of my jobs now is to get undergrads into research and grant opportunities. Colleges usually have a secret office, poorly advertised, called something analogous to the"Office of Undergraduate Research". There's a lot of research conferences coming up, great for medschool apps (work/activity section).

Side note, the OP deserves a medal for "best at ignoring evidence".
 
PurpleLove said:
You seriously think all premeds in a class aren't studying their asses off? That only those top 5 people or so are?
Okay, sure!
Click to expand...
I don't know what weird version of Hopkins you go to, but at my Hopkins, freshman and sophomore level premed classes usually give about 20% A's, and junior and senior level classes 33% A's.

I know for a fact that most people in Hopkins classes aren't studying their asses off. How many practice problems do you do for a typical Orgo exam? I usually did around 200, and that typically took ten hours or so on top of five or six hours of reading the text. Most people I know that got below a B+ in that class probably did around 50. They put in just as many hours (fifteen or sixteen total), but since they were so distracted with [Facebook/social studying/studying at 3:00 AM the night before the exam], they got much less done.

With a 3.2 sGPA, you are barely even in the top half of students at Hopkins. You think that would translate to a 4.0 at a state school, but in reality it would probably only translate to a 3.5 or 3.6 at best. It wouldn't even matter if you were going to Princeton -- a 3.2 shows that you do not at the current time have what it takes to succeed in medical school.

PurpleLove said:
I also don't have time to grab ALL the opportunities available to me.
Click to expand...
College is designed for people to have a lot of free time. Even in my very worst weeks, I probably only spent 40 hours on academics. I could have still been putting in 10 hours into extracurriculars while limiting myself to a 50 hour week. If you are spending so much time studying that you don't have time for extracurriculars (which is what you seem to be implying), then how will you handle med school, where academics alone will easily eat up 60 hours of your week?

Now you have two options: You can continue living in your fantasy world where you are doing everything right, continue to pity yourself, graduate with a 3.2 sGPA, enroll in a post-bacc and do poorly in that as well, and then get rejected from every medical school you apply to. Or you can own up to your mistakes, drop the negative attitude, learn how to study properly, bring up your grades, and get into medical school.

I'm not going to argue with you any more. It is easier to wallow in self-pity and to be miserable than it is to work hard and bring about tangible change. It seems like you've already chosen the easier path.
 
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PurpleLove said:
You seriously think all premeds in a class aren't studying their asses off? That only those top 5 people or so are?
Okay, sure!

I also don't have time to grab ALL the opportunities available to me.
Click to expand...
Maybe you're just not that smart? Ever look at yourself rather than blaming everything else around you?
 
PurpleLove said:
Next time I turn it in, I'll be sure to take a quick picture. Oh wait, no. I'm not that stupid.
Click to expand...

A good number of my professors allowed us to pick up and keep our exams. I find it convenient you post an example of an exam to criticize it without having a corresponding example of one of your exams. To be sure, I find the exam you linked extremely easy, but I think even a "hard" exam testing that particular material is pretty easy.
 
knv2u said:
A good number of my professors allowed us to pick up and keep our exams. I find it convenient you post an example of an exam to criticize it without having a corresponding example of one of your exams. To be sure, I find the exam you linked extremely easy, but I think even a "hard" exam testing that particular material is pretty easy.
Click to expand...

Dammit, I already used the drop the mic gif on this page 🤔. I'm sure she'll find a way to earn it on page 17.
 
Mad Jack said:
I thought we agreed this thread was no longer happening. I thought we were going to let it die.
Click to expand...

Actually, I brought this thread to twitter with medical students and doctors, it's really sparked a great conversation about the important to screen people like the OP out of the admissions process (at least if they stay this way).
 
PurpleLove said:
It helps if the exam asks you to regurgitate what you know. After that, it's a battle between the great minds and the weak minds.

My friend from China wouldn't even read the Bio book because the exams were so conceptual. He just paid attention in class and did great.
Me, I had to do all the readings, know the material backwards and forwards. Apply it in my head and still do worse than him.
Click to expand...
So you're saying you're bad at applying concepts, but great at memorization? You realize that the MCAT is a largely conceptual exam, right? That most of the answers are really simple if you realize what concept is being tested, but the exam is almost impossible to complete on time if you simply use brute force of knowledge and calculation to come to your conclusions?
 
Mad Jack said:
So you're saying you're bad at applying concepts, but great at memorization? You realize that the MCAT is a largely conceptual exam, right? That most of the answers are really simple if you realize what concept is being tested, but the exam is almost impossible to complete on time if you simply use brute force of knowledge and calculation to come to your conclusions?
Click to expand...

I felt the opposite, but I guess my physics and verbal skills were fairly robust. I think the bio is definitely largely memorization.
 
oesdis56 said:
I don't know what weird version of Hopkins you go to, but at my Hopkins, freshman and sophomore level premed classes usually give about 20% A's, and junior and senior level classes 33% A's.

I know for a fact that most people in Hopkins classes aren't studying their asses off. How many practice problems do you do for a typical Orgo exam? I usually did around 200, and that typically took ten hours or so on top of five or six hours of reading the text. Most people I know that got below a B+ in that class probably did around 50. They put in just as many hours (fifteen or sixteen total), but since they were so distracted with [Facebook/social studying/studying at 3:00 AM the night before the exam], they got much less done.

With a 3.2 sGPA, you are barely even in the top half of students at Hopkins. You think that would translate to a 4.0 at a state school, but in reality it would probably only translate to a 3.5 or 3.6 at best. It wouldn't even matter if you were going to Princeton -- a 3.2 shows that you do not at the current time have what it takes to succeed in medical school.


College is designed for people to have a lot of free time. Even in my very worst weeks, I probably only spent 40 hours on academics. I could have still been putting in 10 hours into extracurriculars while limiting myself to a 50 hour week. If you are spending so much time studying that you don't have time for extracurriculars (which is what you seem to be implying), then how will you handle med school, where academics alone will easily eat up 60 hours of your week?

Now you have two options: You can continue living in your fantasy world where you are doing everything right, continue to pity yourself, graduate with a 3.2 sGPA, enroll in a post-bacc and do poorly in that as well, and then get rejected from every medical school you apply to. Or you can own up to your mistakes, drop the negative attitude, learn how to study properly, bring up your grades, and get into medical school.

I'm not going to argue with you any more. It is easier to wallow in self-pity and to be miserable than it is to work hard and bring about tangible change. It seems like you've already chosen the easier path.
Click to expand...
Never said I went to Hopkins. Never said where I went.
 
Mad Jack said:
So you're saying you're bad at applying concepts, but great at memorization? You realize that the MCAT is a largely conceptual exam, right? That most of the answers are really simple if you realize what concept is being tested, but the exam is almost impossible to complete on time if you simply use brute force of knowledge and calculation to come to your conclusions?
Click to expand...
I think I'm good to a point. Those who memorize here get B-s, those who do more get higher grades.
 
oesdis56 said:
I don't know what weird version of Hopkins you go to, but at my Hopkins, freshman and sophomore level premed classes usually give about 20% A's, and junior and senior level classes 33% A's.

I know for a fact that most people in Hopkins classes aren't studying their asses off. How many practice problems do you do for a typical Orgo exam? I usually did around 200, and that typically took ten hours or so on top of five or six hours of reading the text. Most people I know that got below a B+ in that class probably did around 50. They put in just as many hours (fifteen or sixteen total), but since they were so distracted with [Facebook/social studying/studying at 3:00 AM the night before the exam], they got much less done.

With a 3.2 sGPA, you are barely even in the top half of students at Hopkins. You think that would translate to a 4.0 at a state school, but in reality it would probably only translate to a 3.5 or 3.6 at best. It wouldn't even matter if you were going to Princeton -- a 3.2 shows that you do not at the current time have what it takes to succeed in medical school.


College is designed for people to have a lot of free time. Even in my very worst weeks, I probably only spent 40 hours on academics. I could have still been putting in 10 hours into extracurriculars while limiting myself to a 50 hour week. If you are spending so much time studying that you don't have time for extracurriculars (which is what you seem to be implying), then how will you handle med school, where academics alone will easily eat up 60 hours of your week?

Now you have two options: You can continue living in your fantasy world where you are doing everything right, continue to pity yourself, graduate with a 3.2 sGPA, enroll in a post-bacc and do poorly in that as well, and then get rejected from every medical school you apply to. Or you can own up to your mistakes, drop the negative attitude, learn how to study properly, bring up your grades, and get into medical school.

I'm not going to argue with you any more. It is easier to wallow in self-pity and to be miserable than it is to work hard and bring about tangible change. It seems like you've already chosen the easier path.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure I'd do great in a post-bacc. But why pay so much when I can just take other classes now? I know the value of a dollar and if I have my pre-reqs, I don't think a post-bacc is worth it.
 
PurpleLove said:
I'm unhappy with the fact that I can't take easy classes elsewhere now and that I have to do a post-bacc later to improve my chances of getting in.
By the way, seriously. All post-baccs hand out As for a pretty penny.
I'm proud of my GPA. I see really smart people that struggle to do average even though they'd dominate at many other schools.
Click to expand...
SPECULATION. You have only attended your school so you can't make sweeping generalizations about others like that.
 
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