How likely is it to make $375-400k in Psych?

[Merovinge]

I can understand the words from this post, but can't make any sense to it.

Wish I was more financially literate.

Just for a brief example, if you started with a mere $1000 and compounded at 0.5% daily (less than the midpoint being advertised above), after 10 years you would have....

$81,368,729,469.60. 81 billion dollars starting with $1000 after 10 years. Does that sound reasonable to you?

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[littlefred]

Just for a brief example, if you started with a mere $1000 and compounded at 0.5% daily (less than the midpoint being advertised above), after 10 years you would have....

$81,368,729,469.60. 81 billion dollars starting with $1000 after 10 years. Does that sound reasonable to you?

Nope!

Thanks to all with advice. Slow and steady definitely wins the race.

 

[TexasPhysician]

I think you're mixing up his blog with his actual book. His original book is an excellent "Finances for Dummies" type of read for physicians. Very basic and straightforward information to help teach basic financial literacy to physicians. His blog is much more hit or miss and there was even a recent article on his own site about his most controversial articles (part 3, lol).

He actually did follow a good amount of his own advice early on and attributes that to becoming a millionaire in his late 30's. Idk everything he does now, but the book is still relevant for physicians who are financially clueless.

The true positive aspects of that book could be summarized in a few bullet points in my opinion. He isn’t discussing difficult material, but I guess many books could be bullet points, but you don’t make $$ on bullet points. Most MD’s that lack financial literacy don’t want to read a book about it in my experience. Those that want to read and get really good at finances require much more in-depth reading.

While he may have followed some of his advise early on, he definitely didn’t stick to it. He is way off from the basics now, but you expect that when a physician is earning $1 million outside of medicine.

 

[Splenda88]

Just for a brief example, if you started with a mere $1000 and compounded at 0.5% daily (less than the midpoint being advertised above), after 10 years you would have....

$81,368,729,469.60. 81 billion dollars starting with $1000 after 10 years. Does that sound reasonable to you?

Do you count weekends?

 

[AD04]

Some people in finance strongly believe they have a secret to generate outsized returns, largely based on early life success from certain "strategies". The data is compelling that they are incorrect but a number of cognitive biases ensure they will continue to propagate.

Some people in finance have consistently generated outsized returns. Buffett, Simons, Druckenmiller. Buffett even gave a talk about it:

The Superinvestors of Graham-and-Doddsville - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

These days, value investing is outdated but it provided alpha for several decades. It's a cognitive bias that indexing cannot be beaten.

It's actually comical at this point for me to hear about people who think that their options trading is somehow free money that offers alpha because of their skill. As though all the best PhD's for MIT/Cal Tech with the largest teams and most powerful compute known to mankind don't know this one little secret.

I think this is a jab at a certain poster on SDN. I actually have a lot of respect for him. Unlike me, he is very open about his strategy. Options are not easy to understand for the common person. Therefore, there is more room for arbitrage for outsized returns. There are pockets of opportunities that is too small for hedge funds and institutions but big enough for the individual investor.

Prof G (NYU Stern professor who has started and exited several businesses to the tune of significant 8 figures) was even talking about how he thought at age 58 he had it figured out. Lost 15 mill shorting the market last year. He just wrote a book advising people to just buy index funds and not be dumb with their money.

If I was a popular speaker trying to sell books, I would definitely have my ghostwriter write something inoffensive and commonly agreed upon. There is less career risk that way. I'll tell everyone to index while I invest differently. It's win-win for me. I'll sell more books and have higher investment returns in a less crowded space.

There are lots of other options as you get further into the space (e.g. Rational Reminder) where you can hear from noble prize winning economists discuss their academic research.

For those that wants to make big money, why listen to academics over people that have actually done it? From what I've seen so far, academics sound intelligent at the expense of big earnings. This is kind of reflected in the SDN psychiatric cohort as well.

If anyone wants to chat about how to get started reasonably or basic questions I am happy to help *not a financial planner/just for educational purposes only*.

You're a good guy. We often don't think alike but I like you overall.

This person is basically taking WAY more risk than is realized to get those returns, and is using tools that should NOT be used by retail investors such as options trading and leverage to maximize gains.

It's kind of hard to say. There are strategies that offer higher sharpe ratios than indexing in S&P 500. It is possible to take on less risk (in terms of volatility) for more returns.

Just stick to low-maintenance broad based index funds and monthly investing and you'll be rich in 30 years.

I highly endorse this message and I hope more people listen to you. Indexing is good for those who suck at investing. And it is good for me if the person is awesome at investing. Indexing results in less competition for the top 1%. Why be rich in 5 years when you can be rich in 30 years? Certainly everyone will live another 30 years to enjoy the fruits of their labor.

 

[thelastpsych]

Some people in finance have consistently generated outsized returns. Buffett, Simons, Druckenmiller. Buffett even gave a talk about it:

The Superinvestors of Graham-and-Doddsville - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

These days, value investing is outdated but it provided alpha for several decades. It's a cognitive bias that indexing cannot be beaten.



I think this is a jab at a certain poster on SDN. I actually have a lot of respect for him. Unlike me, he is very open about his strategy. Options are not easy to understand for the common person. Therefore, there is more room for arbitrage for outsized returns. There are pockets of opportunities that is too small for hedge funds and institutions but big enough for the individual investor.



If I was a popular speaker trying to sell books, I would definitely have my ghostwriter write something inoffensive and commonly agreed upon. There is less career risk that way. I'll tell everyone to index while I invest differently. It's win-win for me. I'll sell more books and have higher investment returns in a less crowded space.



For those that wants to make big money, why listen to academics over people that have actually done it? From what I've seen so far, academics sound intelligent at the expense of big earnings. This is kind of reflected in the SDN psychiatric cohort as well.



You're a good guy. We often don't think alike but I like you overall.



It's kind of hard to say. There are strategies that offer higher sharpe ratios than indexing in S&P 500. It is possible to take on less risk (in terms of volatility) for more returns.



I highly endorse this message and I hope more people listen to you. Indexing is good for those who suck at investing. And it is good for me if the person is awesome at investing. Indexing results in less competition for the top 1%. Why be rich in 5 years when you can be rich in 30 years? Certainly everyone will live another 30 years to enjoy the fruits of their labor.

Buffet himself insists that the average investor should stick to indexing, and is even putting his wife's trust fund money there.

If you think that you are an above average investor that can generate alpha using other strategies, well, go for it- you will need to spend more time analyzing and such, time that could be used to work more as a doctor and earn more. Your JOB will make you rich as an average doctor: time on the market and constant investing, on the long run.

If you think you can get rich in 5 years instead of 30 with a better sharpe ratio, well, dont let me stop you. I just dont recomend the average doctor (and unfortunately most people think that they are above average) to do it.

 

[clausewitz2]

Y'all went to school and went through residency for many years in order to acquire a certain lucrative skillset and legal privileges. If you are convinced that your work hours will consistently and reliably generate more income doing something non-clinical, and money is the main goal, what was the point of your training?

 

[Merovinge]

Y'all went to school and went through residency for many years in order to acquire a certain lucrative skillset and legal privileges. If you are convinced that your work hours will consistently and reliably generate more income doing something non-clinical, and money is the main goal, what was the point of your training?

That's a really nice way of saying doctor hubris is exactly what has made our professional a ripe target for the financial industry. If I can excise a brain tumor I must be able to beat the market. It didn't help that older generations of doctors were trained to trust their instinct and n=1 instead of RCTs and metanalysis that the more recent data driven generation has gone through. I do think younger docs are much better about having some concept of FI, low costs, and market exposure though, this does seem to be a problem that is actually course correcting unlike much of the world.

 

[Stagg737]

The true positive aspects of that book could be summarized in a few bullet points in my opinion. He isn’t discussing difficult material, but I guess many books could be bullet points, but you don’t make $$ on bullet points. Most MD’s that lack financial literacy don’t want to read a book about it in my experience. Those that want to read and get really good at finances require much more in-depth reading.

While he may have followed some of his advise early on, he definitely didn’t stick to it. He is way off from the basics now, but you expect that when a physician is earning $1 million outside of medicine.

I think the real advantage of WCI is that it gives priorities on what to learn and what is financially important at each stage of education and then into attendinghood. Sure, it could be bullet points, but billet points aren’t really instructional.

Also, the book costs less than $20 for a physical copy and kindle version is $10. Together he’s sold about 30k copies over the course of 10 years, so not exactly a huge money-maker after publishing costs and middle-men. If he were really trying to make money off of it, he may as well have just picked up extra shifts for a year or two.

I think this is a jab at a certain poster on SDN. I actually have a lot of respect for him. Unlike me, he is very open about his strategy. Options are not easy to understand for the common person. Therefore, there is more room for arbitrage for outsized returns. There are pockets of opportunities that is too small for hedge funds and institutions but big enough for the individual investor.

I don’t think that pointing out the ridiculousness of a poster’s statement is taking a jab at anyone. And I’d say that someone claiming they’re making 1% daily compounding interest and safely scalping up to $1mil on a trade without significant risk and/or a high six figure investment is pretty ridiculous.

 

[thelastpsych]

I think the real advantage of WCI is that it gives priorities on what to learn and what is financially important at each stage of education and then into attendinghood. Sure, it could be bullet points, but billet points aren’t really instructional.

Also, the book costs less than $20 for a physical copy and kindle version is $10. Together he’s sold about 30k copies over the course of 10 years, so not exactly a huge money-maker after publishing costs and middle-men. If he were really trying to make money off of it, he may as well have just picked up extra shifts for a year or two.



I don’t think that pointing out the ridiculousness of a poster’s statement is taking a jab at anyone. And I’d say that someone claiming they’re making 1% daily compounding interest and safely scalping up to $1mil on a trade without significant risk and/or a high six figure investment is pretty ridiculous.

I'm fascinated by the Dunning-Kruger effect, and how most people really think they are smarter than they actually are. The financial market is a case where this is incentivized much further, and people nowadays love to think that they will get away with higher returns with less risk because they are smarter than everyone else. I think the most important discovery people have to make is of their own vast ignorance. Nothing can be accomplished before that.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Some people in finance have consistently generated outsized returns. Buffett, Simons, Druckenmiller. Buffett even gave a talk about it:

The Superinvestors of Graham-and-Doddsville - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

These days, value investing is outdated but it provided alpha for several decades. It's a cognitive bias that indexing cannot be beaten.

Sure but these guys aren't and weren't doctors doing options trading on the side. They are full time investors who spent huge amounts of time trying to figure out a correct discount to book value and then making significant investment in these companies with the idea that when they find a company with a significant discount to value they're operating within some significant margin of safety. You have to know HOW to even correctly value a "great company at a fair price" as the quote goes. Keep in mind these were often acquisitions or investments in PRIVATE companies, not even publicly traded companies, which required an even higher level of scrutiny and less transparency (so more potential to get burned).

 

[finalpsychyear]

Y'all went to school and went through residency for many years in order to acquire a certain lucrative skillset and legal privileges. If you are convinced that your work hours will consistently and reliably generate more income doing something non-clinical, and money is the main goal, what was the point of your training?

I guess the clinical money is what provides the initial investment. I still don't think 99% of docs should be doing anything other than index fund investing 95% of their capital. They can dabble with that 5% in whatever but the base should stay.

Then there will come a time when the average returns from even those index funds will be in the ballpark of the avg docs salary 200-250k but that will require an investment nest egg 2.5-3m and assuming 7% returns and your still falling short. Maybe if one is in that boat they can do more risky stuff but should still be investing most of their paycheck into index.

 

[TexasPhysician]

I guess the clinical money is what provides the initial investment. I still don't think 99% of docs should be doing anything other than index fund investing 95% of their capital. They can dabble with that 5% in whatever but the base should stay.

Then there will come a time when the average returns from even those index funds will be in the ballpark of the avg docs salary 200-250k but that will require an investment nest egg 2.5-3m and assuming 7% returns and your still falling short. Maybe if one is in that boat they can do more risky stuff but should still be investing most of their paycheck into index.

This is an oversimplification. Most in psych probably shouldn’t be doing those things. Starting and growing a private practice is delaying stock market investments to grow a business that is more lucrative later. Once you have a practice, buying office space could be cheaper long-term rather than renting. This requires a down payment that takes money from the stock market.

As a 1099 or business owner, you can create a defined benefit plan that would allow you to shelter $200K+ depending on age. In doing so, such a plan actually pushes to limit returns and be safer. Think more bonds and maintain around 4% appreciation. It squishes the value of index fund investing, but it saves taxes. That is an instant return on your $.

Psychiatrists doing these things is well above 1%. Once you go down these rabbit holes, it becomes easier to see how other investments could be rewarding. Referring counselors want to be near you. Now you are considering buying the office next door and renting to a few counselors. It improves referrals and provides a steady return and appreciation.

None of this is that complicated. I’m not advising people to time the market or start day-trading. I’m not telling people to go buy an apartment building and figuring out how to manage 100 tenants in 1 day. I’m also not saying that ETF’s are a bad decision. They are fine for the typical W2 employee with no 1099 income. I am saying that many physicians should better understand investments, because just straight ETF investing is not ideal for those 1099 or running their own business.

 

[Merovinge]

This is an oversimplification. Most in psych probably shouldn’t be doing those things. Starting and growing a private practice is delaying stock market investments to grow a business that is more lucrative later. Once you have a practice, buying office space could be cheaper long-term rather than renting. This requires a down payment that takes money from the stock market.

As a 1099 or business owner, you can create a defined benefit plan that would allow you to shelter $200K+ depending on age. In doing so, such a plan actually pushes to limit returns and be safer. Think more bonds and maintain around 4% appreciation. It squishes the value of index fund investing, but it saves taxes. That is an instant return on your $.

Psychiatrists doing these things is well above 1%. Once you go down these rabbit holes, it becomes easier to see how other investments could be rewarding. Referring counselors want to be near you. Now you are considering buying the office next door and renting to a few counselors. It improves referrals and provides a steady return and appreciation.

None of this is that complicated. I’m not advising people to time the market or start day-trading. I’m not telling people to go buy an apartment building and figuring out how to manage 100 tenants in 1 day. I’m also not saying that ETF’s are a bad decision. They are fine for the typical W2 employee with no 1099 income. I am saying that many physicians should better understand investments, because just straight ETF investing is not ideal for those 1099 or running their own business.

This reminds of me of someone discussing gravity where they explained it was not an object falling back to Earth's larger gravitational pull but rather some extremely confusing relativity thing that I clearly don't recall 20 years later.

Yes, absolutely people can outpace market returns with investment into medical practices. Yes, 1099 or K return people make better returns with tax avoidance strategies (and for the record defined benefit plans can be more aggressive than targeting a 4% return and likely should for most people). Yes conservation easements made rich people a lot of money and now they closed the loophole but didn't prosecute anyone doing it remotely reasonably. Yes the US heavily favors capital over labor and there are lots of ways to leverage that. You are right about 100% of what you said, but it doesn't take way from the general message to the average US doc (particularly resident, med student or early career doc) is best served learning the basics ala WCI's basic books or similar material.

 

[TexasPhysician]

This reminds of me of someone discussing gravity where they explained it was not an object falling back to Earth's larger gravitational pull but rather some extremely confusing relativity thing that I clearly don't recall 20 years later.

Count me confused. You are saying I am wanting to have relativity more $ than the average physician?

 

[comp1]

Geeze people, just find a job you like and keep working. It shouldn't be that hard...

 

[finalpsychyear]

Geeze people, just find a job you like and keep working. It shouldn't be that hard...

Lot of people aren't so lucky. Work is a grind for them and they want to reach the finish line asap.

 

[Stagg737]

Yeah it also boils down to the how long someone wants to work since this is a newer concept with FIRE and lifestyle push for the younger gen.

I think docs who don't keep up with the jones's mentality esp living in a LCOL area have a 20-25 year ticket to major wealth just by DCA into index funds and doing nothing else.

However, seems to me that a lot more folks want to shrink that window into a 10-15 year career. You either have to be a high earning speciality saving a lot more than your cohorts or take more risk in investments or accept a lower retirement lifestyle. I have this feeling that people who are intent on FIRE aren't earning much higher than average and imagine this very luxurious lifestyle in a 10-15 year career. They then have to look for higher risk to get there.

I honestly don't understand the people who go into medicine with this mindset and the number of residents I hear about talking about this d/t burnout or who end up hating their jobs/field makes me feel like we're failing in terms of the exposure accepted medical students get before entering medicine.

If the goal is to FIRE, medicine seems like it's not the best pathway. Finish UG, then 4 more years of medical school racking up loans with no salary, then at least 3 more years of residency either scraping by and investing minimally or living reasonably without investing. So most docs won't be attendings until their early 30's if they go straight through, basically starting from scratch and gave up essential years of their lives. Then to retire in 10-15 years you've got to find a way to have a high disposable income to invest. That could mean being in a high paying field (which can be very difficult to obtain) and living modestly, being in a field like psych where you can bust your butt to kill it by working multiple jobs, or if you're in a field like peds living like a resident long-term.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

I honestly don't understand the people who go into medicine with this mindset and the number of residents I hear about talking about this d/t burnout or who end up hating their jobs/field makes me feel like we're failing in terms of the exposure accepted medical students get before entering medicine.

I definitely don't understand people who go into PSYCHIATRY with this mindset. This is a relatively low stress, low liability career within medicine itself and is basically an office job in terms of physical stress which you can do almost entirely virtually if you want. Personally, my biggest reason I don't like to work much right now (and I only work 4 days a week lol) is because I want to spend more time with my kids when they actually like to hang out with me and given my field I find this a very valuable thing to do....

Psychiatry is one of the easiest fields to just do half time outpatient or locums work inpatient/coverage or do a few days of IOP/PHP a week or just weekend rounding and still make 100-200K a year forever. If someone feels like psychiatry is a "grind" you're doing something wrong cause there's jobs out there that are actual "grinds". I remind myself of that every day when I feel annoyed going to the office and drive past the dudes nailing shingles on the roof in 90 degree heat on the new townhouses down the street while I get to spend the rest of the day sitting on my butt in an air conditioned office.

 

[finalpsychyear]

I honestly don't understand the people who go into medicine with this mindset and the number of residents I hear about talking about this d/t burnout or who end up hating their jobs/field makes me feel like we're failing in terms of the exposure accepted medical students get before entering medicine.

If the goal is to FIRE, medicine seems like it's not the best pathway. Finish UG, then 4 more years of medical school racking up loans with no salary, then at least 3 more years of residency either scraping by and investing minimally or living reasonably without investing. So most docs won't be attendings until their early 30's if they go straight through, basically starting from scratch and gave up essential years of their lives. Then to retire in 10-15 years you've got to find a way to have a high disposable income to invest. That could mean being in a high paying field (which can be very difficult to obtain) and living modestly, being in a field like psych where you can bust your butt to kill it by working multiple jobs, or if you're in a field like peds living like a resident long-term.

Except I dont think they have that mindset till they are in there 30s wondering how their amazon/google/tech friends have a 7 figure nest egg, no loans, work remote, have a few kids and seem so much ahead in their life when in all fairness these med students/residents have worked as hard or harder but are significantly behind in the dollars and cents aspect lucky if they are at 0 net worth but usually 150-250k in debt and early 30s. Sure they will get there in 20-25 ish years but now they are in their mid 50s having already wasted 20s and early 30s grinding to get there.


Its not just about exposure to medicine. Your giving up parts of your prime to be in the field. Other fields don't ask that of you. Medicine then allows others to bypass med school and rx meds which is a slap in the face to non procedural fields who gave sweat, blood, and tears to earn that. I'm not sure I would go back in time and change my course but I would financially for sure be in a better position today had i been in tech.

My wife's niece 22 yo started work making 100k+bonus plus traveling across the country every few weeks for work and works from home half the week. Hard to beat a nest egg that starts that early even if you are dumb with your money a few years you have so much time to recover.

 

[comp1]

I just do not have a lot of (any?) friends with 7 figure nest eggs and statistically, most other people also don't. I cannot relate to the keeping up with Jones' mindset at all. As a physician, I feel soooooooo far ahead of pretty much everyone else around me financially and I'm still almost a decade away from 50. I'm frankly way ahead of the Jones. Also...I could easily argue that working in tech, particularly in jobs that could feasibly lead to 7 figure nest eggs before 50, has an even worse working environment than psychiatry residency, much less attendinghood. Psychiatry is just really great and no, NPs are not coming for your job. AI, maybe, but that's how they got those 7 figure nest eggs.

 

[finalpsychyear]

I just do not have a lot of (any?) friends with 7 figure nest eggs and statistically, most other people also don't. I cannot relate to the keeping up with Jones' mindset at all. As a physician, I feel soooooooo far ahead of pretty much everyone else around me financially and I'm still almost a decade away from 50. I'm frankly way ahead of the Jones. Also...I could easily argue that working in tech, particularly in jobs that could feasibly lead to 7 figure nest eggs before 50, has an even worse working environment than psychiatry residency, much less attendinghood. Psychiatry is just really great and no, NPs are not coming for your job. AI, maybe, but that's how they got those 7 figure nest eggs.

yeah I get your point to a degree. I told my tennis buddy (2 doc family) that someone was wanting 100 dollars to mow my grass which is 0.10 acres or a 20 minute mow hoping to get a WTF reaction and they were like isn't that a normal rate?

Am I out of touch with reality but I expect most docs who are heavily investing to be at or near 7 fig nest egg after a decade of practice?


P.S. ( the going rate is 40-50 in the area but some people either just spend a lot. loaded, or do not to care)

 

[FlowRate]

yeah I get your point to a degree. I told my tennis buddy (2 doc family) that someone was wanting 100 dollars to mow my grass which is 0.10 acres or a 20 minute mow hoping to get a WTF reaction and they were like isn't that a normal rate?

Am I out of touch with reality but I expect most docs who are heavily investing to be at or near 7 fig nest egg after a decade of practice?


P.S. ( the going rate is 40-50 in the area but some people either just spend a lot. loaded, or do not to care)

I don't think you're out of touch, the math just works out that way, at least it does for a single full-time psychiatrist. My total annual expenses are around 90k per year. That's left about $140k per year after taxes for investing/saving. The one nice thing about interest rates being high is that it doesn't feel as bad leaving down payment savings in a HYSA at over 5%. If/when interest rates go down significantly, I'll probably consider actually contributing to regular brokerage accounts, since I'll be out of (relevant to my situation) tax advantaged options. Anyway, even if not getting compounded returns, that's $1.4M of principal savings after a decade.

 

[Candidate2017]

I was just commenting that europeans find this obsession with self-sufficiency, prepping, surviving in the woods, etc quite funny, and have a much more moderate view of things, probably because the urban dwellings are not so alienating, and as such, don't pull that extremely to the other side.

I know lots of Europeans who understand the American obsession with working hard and being self-sufficient. Some have turned into... American citizens. They've chosen to live and work in America in order to fully reap the benefits of their labor, free from high taxes, corruption, oppression, and/or lack of social mobility in their native country. They work much harder than the average native born American. This is basically the story of America since the beginning.

Also, our excess productivity allows us to spend trillions of dollars to fund guns and bombs to help peeps from the Old Country stave off existential threats to their independence. Money, guns, explosions. That sums up freedom to 'Muricans.

Psychiatrists doing these things is well above 1%. Once you go down these rabbit holes, it becomes easier to see how other investments could be rewarding. Referring counselors want to be near you. Now you are considering buying the office next door and renting to a few counselors. It improves referrals and provides a steady return and appreciation.

The real question is at what amount of business/investment income (or assets) should the practice of medicine be considered an unacceptable personal liability risk that warrants leaving medicine entirely to focus on business/investment. Consider a rich ortho surgeon who operates on a 3rd string NFL player to whom they eventually lose a $30-50 mil lawsuit for lost NFL earnings. True story that happened in at least two different cases, and in one of the cases, the surgeon thought it was best to commit suicide via knife to chest.

 

[finalpsychyear]

I know lots of Europeans who understand the American obsession with working hard and being self-sufficient. Some have turned into... American citizens. They've chosen to live and work in America in order to fully reap the benefits of their labor, free from high taxes, corruption, oppression, and/or lack of social mobility in their native country. They work much harder than the average native born American. This is basically the story of America since the beginning.

Also, our excess productivity allows us to spend trillions of dollars to fund guns and bombs to help peeps from the Old Country stave off existential threats to their independence. Money, guns, explosions. That sums up freedom to 'Muricans.



The real question is at what amount of business/investment income (or assets) should the practice of medicine be considered an unacceptable personal liability risk that warrants leaving medicine entirely to focus on business/investment. Consider a rich ortho surgeon who operates on a 3rd string NFL player to whom they eventually lose a $30-50 mil lawsuit for lost NFL earnings. True story that happened in at least two different cases, and in one of the cases, the surgeon thought it was best to commit suicide via knife to chest.

As one approaches 7-8m range even a 5-7% return is to the point that ur never going to touch ur principal esp using the 3-4% swr.

Work PT for the VA or some volunteer medical work if the passion is there i would say to minimize risk.

 

[annoyedpsychiatrist]

Per Medscape, median compensation for psychiatrist is about 323k. This sounds about right to me.
While psychiatist compensation has crept up quite a lot in recent years it is still a lower paying specialty overall, albeit no longer a lowest paying one.
What that means is the typical psychiatrist is not going to be earning 400k. That is in the 90th percentile for psychiatrist compensation. You should bear that in mind.

Things that influence how much compensation you make:
- where you train
- your specialty/subspecialties
- where you work
- how many hours you work
- how flexible you are
- how willing and good you are at negotiating
- how business savvy you are
- how ambitious you are
- you good you are at marketing and building your brand (this does not just apply to private practice, it is also applicable in academics, industry, for administrative positions etc)
- whether you diversify your income streams


When I was in academics I was making about 400k a year which was in the 99th percentile for junior faculty in psychiatry. Last yr in pp, I made somewhat over 300k doing about 15hrs per week. I know people making over a million/yr. Being highly compensated in psychiatry is very possible. However, it is NOT the norm.

323? is that updated recently? i thought it was 310k last i remember?

edit- oh nice it is updated, just saw. Nice little 4% increase, ill take it

 

[psychmd03]

Just for a brief example, if you started with a mere $1000 and compounded at 0.5% daily (less than the midpoint being advertised above), after 10 years you would have....

$81,368,729,469.60. 81 billion dollars starting with $1000 after 10 years. Does that sound reasonable to you?

But come on he knows the secret sauce

 

[Merovinge]

yeah I get your point to a degree. I told my tennis buddy (2 doc family) that someone was wanting 100 dollars to mow my grass which is 0.10 acres or a 20 minute mow hoping to get a WTF reaction and they were like isn't that a normal rate?

Am I out of touch with reality but I expect most docs who are heavily investing to be at or near 7 fig nest egg after a decade of practice?


P.S. ( the going rate is 40-50 in the area but some people either just spend a lot. loaded, or do not to care)

You'd be amazed. One of my best friend's is a hospitalist who is on year 10 of attendinghood, wife is a part-time nurse after they had a kid 3 years ago (FT nurse before that). Net worth is under 1/2 million including home equity. Between lifestyle creep, daycare, travel, insurance, it apparently adds up because he is actually quite frugal. We're the same age but I did 5 years of training for CAP and my partner being a surgeon completely changes the math, but I still didn't expect quite the gulf in NW as it actually exists.

 

[Stagg737]

I definitely don't understand people who go into PSYCHIATRY with this mindset. This is a relatively low stress, low liability career within medicine itself and is basically an office job in terms of physical stress which you can do almost entirely virtually if you want. Personally, my biggest reason I don't like to work much right now (and I only work 4 days a week lol) is because I want to spend more time with my kids when they actually like to hang out with me and given my field I find this a very valuable thing to do....

Psychiatry is one of the easiest fields to just do half time outpatient or locums work inpatient/coverage or do a few days of IOP/PHP a week or just weekend rounding and still make 100-200K a year forever. If someone feels like psychiatry is a "grind" you're doing something wrong cause there's jobs out there that are actual "grinds". I remind myself of that every day when I feel annoyed going to the office and drive past the dudes nailing shingles on the roof in 90 degree heat on the new townhouses down the street while I get to spend the rest of the day sitting on my butt in an air conditioned office.

Agree that psychiatry is a lifestyle field. Yes, you can grind to upper six figures if you choose, but even that takes high efficiency, sacrifice, and some level of business acumen. I say that as someone who would honestly rather be outside in 90 degree weather doing physical labor than doing FT OP psych and sitting in an air conditioned office.

I still don't understand even for high paying procedural fields. You'd be going to 4 years of med school and missing out on life, then at least 4 years of residency (probably 5-6) where you're legit grinding unlike psych, then likely doing a 1-3 year fellowship before you're making that sweet attending salary. Most of those people will be in their mid to late 30's by the time they're an attending. Sure, they could grind for 5-7 years, build up a $3-5mil nest egg and then live a decent life off that. Realistically Idk any frugal surgeons and all of those high paying specialists like to have at least a fairly high expense lifestyle that matches that, especially if you live in a HCOL location where that lifestyle won't leave a ton for investing. That doesn't really fit with the general attitude of the FIRE people I've interacted with...

I just do not have a lot of (any?) friends with 7 figure nest eggs and statistically, most other people also don't. I cannot relate to the keeping up with Jones' mindset at all. As a physician, I feel soooooooo far ahead of pretty much everyone else around me financially and I'm still almost a decade away from 50. I'm frankly way ahead of the Jones. Also...I could easily argue that working in tech, particularly in jobs that could feasibly lead to 7 figure nest eggs before 50, has an even worse working environment than psychiatry residency, much less attendinghood. Psychiatry is just really great and no, NPs are not coming for your job. AI, maybe, but that's how they got those 7 figure nest eggs.

I've got several, including a few of the academic psychiatrists I work with. You're right that this isn't the case for the average American, but for physicians who live in nicer neighborhoods in wealthier zip codes I'm sure it's not uncommon. I don' think anyone would argue that tech would be that much better of a lifestyle than psychiatrist (at least not early on for them), but imo it's overall going to be a more efficient way to FIRE than much of medicine would be...

 

[finalpsychyear]

Agree that psychiatry is a lifestyle field. Yes, you can grind to upper six figures if you choose, but even that takes high efficiency, sacrifice, and some level of business acumen. I say that as someone who would honestly rather be outside in 90 degree weather doing physical labor than doing FT OP psych and sitting in an air conditioned office.

I still don't understand even for high paying procedural fields. You'd be going to 4 years of med school and missing out on life, then at least 4 years of residency (probably 5-6) where you're legit grinding unlike psych, then likely doing a 1-3 year fellowship before you're making that sweet attending salary. Most of those people will be in their mid to late 30's by the time they're an attending. Sure, they could grind for 5-7 years, build up a $3-5mil nest egg and then live a decent life off that. Realistically Idk any frugal surgeons and all of those high paying specialists like to have at least a fairly high expense lifestyle that matches that, especially if you live in a HCOL location where that lifestyle won't leave a ton for investing. That doesn't really fit with the general attitude of the FIRE people I've interacted with...


I've got several, including a few of the academic psychiatrists I work with. You're right that this isn't the case for the average American, but for physicians who live in nicer neighborhoods in wealthier zip codes I'm sure it's not uncommon. I don' think anyone would argue that tech would be that much better of a lifestyle than psychiatrist (at least not early on for them), but imo it's overall going to be a more efficient way to FIRE than much of medicine would be...

I cant imagine a surgeon after 5-7 years of grinding through a rough residency and busy fellowship and getting at least 500k to start that saving and investing would be the priority. You would be like heck yeah I deserve that at or near million dollar house, nice cars for me and the wife... etc.. I don't blame them they also have even less time to read about finances and what not.

As much as I have spent learning and reading about it I can't deny that after waking up at 4-5am (surgeons) for years of your life then you finally become an attending surgeon no one is living like a resident unless they are in a lifestyle ish surgical specialty. I can't see myself even with what i know being able to not splurge on some of those things. This was ok in the 80s-90 sand early 2000s they made enough to probably still come out fine. The issue is now it really stinks since the pay is not reflective of what they have put themselves through imo

 

[finalpsychyear]

Agree that psychiatry is a lifestyle field. Yes, you can grind to upper six figures if you choose, but even that takes high efficiency, sacrifice, and some level of business acumen. I say that as someone who would honestly rather be outside in 90 degree weather doing physical labor than doing FT OP psych and sitting in an air conditioned office.

I still don't understand even for high paying procedural fields. You'd be going to 4 years of med school and missing out on life, then at least 4 years of residency (probably 5-6) where you're legit grinding unlike psych, then likely doing a 1-3 year fellowship before you're making that sweet attending salary. Most of those people will be in their mid to late 30's by the time they're an attending. Sure, they could grind for 5-7 years, build up a $3-5mil nest egg and then live a decent life off that. Realistically Idk any frugal surgeons and all of those high paying specialists like to have at least a fairly high expense lifestyle that matches that, especially if you live in a HCOL location where that lifestyle won't leave a ton for investing. That doesn't really fit with the general attitude of the FIRE people I've interacted with...


I've got several, including a few of the academic psychiatrists I work with. You're right that this isn't the case for the average American, but for physicians who live in nicer neighborhoods in wealthier zip codes I'm sure it's not uncommon. I don' think anyone would argue that tech would be that much better of a lifestyle than psychiatrist (at least not early on for them), but imo it's overall going to be a more efficient way to FIRE than much of medicine would be...

I'm not picking on you but even investing 300k/year for 8 years and getting 7% returns gets you just into the 3m range barely. That's ALOT to invest even if your making 500-700 and likely your not living like a resident. Maybe I'm wrong but I'd figure it takes most a decade IF they dont overspend and are intentionally trying to save and invest to the point at which it is uncomfortable. I crunched the numbers and even with max 401k deductions if you are spending more than 125k/year thats the break even for 300k to be saved/invested for most w-2.

Im very frugal and i'm very close to that spend limit with no loans anymore, no kids, and a house rent under 4k roughly.

 

[brazilianpsych]

This type of thread always makes me depressed. The conclusion I get is:

- you need to make 500k
- your spouse needs to make 500k
- work 30 years, still won't be able to retire


Where's the financially successful folks? Is there a light at the end of the tunnel?

I'm not saying people in this thread are not financially successful btw, I mean people who got there already, not people on the way to get there/trying to, which is most of us

 

[thelastpsych]

This type of thread always makes me depressed. The conclusion I get is:

- you need to make 500k
- your spouse needs to make 500k
- work 30 years, still won't be able to retire


Where's the financially successful folks? Is there a light at the end of the tunnel?

I'm not saying people in this thread are not financially successful btw, I mean people who got there already, not people on the way to get there/trying to, which is most of us

Fun fact: A third of american families earning more than 200k/yr live paycheck to paycheck. It has to be more about a lifestyle obsession that people from upper middle class and higher suffer (and doctors are a prime example of that) than actual lack of money.

 

[sloh]

This type of thread always makes me depressed. The conclusion I get is:

- you need to make 500k
- your spouse needs to make 500k
- work 30 years, still won't be able to retire


Where's the financially successful folks? Is there a light at the end of the tunnel?

I'm not saying people in this thread are not financially successful btw, I mean people who got there already, not people on the way to get there/trying to, which is most of us

Unless you’re skirting the right tail of the income bell curve for your specialty, an MD/DO in general isn’t the route to early financial independence. Even tech and finance aren’t guarantees. You really have to play your cards right if early financial independence is your goal and no career path is a clear “win.”

 

[Stagg737]

I'm not picking on you but even investing 300k/year for 8 years and getting 7% returns gets you just into the 3m range barely. That's ALOT to invest even if your making 500-700 and likely your not living like a resident. Maybe I'm wrong but I'd figure it takes most a decade IF they dont overspend and are intentionally trying to save and invest to the point at which it is uncomfortable. I crunched the numbers and even with max 401k deductions if you are spending more than 125k/year thats the break even for 300k to be saved/invested for most w-2.

Im very frugal and i'm very close to that spend limit with no loans anymore, no kids, and a house rent under 4k roughly.

That's exactly my point. Even for surgeons, it is very difficult to FIRE in their 40's unless they're either making 7 figures and living "reasonably" so they can invest near $500k/yr or making mid/upper 6 figures and living frugally or even like a resident which I have not seen any surgeons do. Imo it's not unreasonable for most physicians to hit FIRE in their 50's (which is still 10-15 years early on retirement) and live a fairly comfortable lifestyle, especially if have a working spouse and no kids. This idea that a lot of med students or younger people have of hitting FIRE in their 40's and then never having to work again or barely work at all is just not realistic if they're only counting on a salary from medical work. If they've got a strong income outside of medicine as well, then sure, but this idea that physician income + playing the markets right is a great path to early FIRE is just not realistic for the vast majority of physicians.

This type of thread always makes me depressed. The conclusion I get is:

- you need to make 500k
- your spouse needs to make 500k
- work 30 years, still won't be able to retire


Where's the financially successful folks? Is there a light at the end of the tunnel?

I'm not saying people in this thread are not financially successful btw, I mean people who got there already, not people on the way to get there/trying to, which is most of us

None of those things are true unless you want to live lavishly and not follow basic rules for retirement. You may need to work for 30 years (which is still less than the average American) but if you're putting 20% of your income towards retirement and expect a "normal" retirement this should not be an issue. If you make $300k/yr and only put $50k/yr into retirement (<17%) you'll still have a nest egg of over $5mil in 30 years at a 6% interest rate, which means $200k to pull year from retirement if you follow the 4% rule. That's not accounting for a lot of things, but these are still generally valid rules and the scenario above should be easily attainable for most physicians.

 

[psychmd03]

Agree that psychiatry is a lifestyle field. Yes, you can grind to upper six figures if you choose, but even that takes high efficiency, sacrifice, and some level of business acumen. I say that as someone who would honestly rather be outside in 90 degree weather doing physical labor than doing FT OP psych and sitting in an air conditioned office.

I still don't understand even for high paying procedural fields. You'd be going to 4 years of med school and missing out on life, then at least 4 years of residency (probably 5-6) where you're legit grinding unlike psych, then likely doing a 1-3 year fellowship before you're making that sweet attending salary. Most of those people will be in their mid to late 30's by the time they're an attending. Sure, they could grind for 5-7 years, build up a $3-5mil nest egg and then live a decent life off that. Realistically Idk any frugal surgeons and all of those high paying specialists like to have at least a fairly high expense lifestyle that matches that, especially if you live in a HCOL location where that lifestyle won't leave a ton for investing. That doesn't really fit with the general attitude of the FIRE people I've interacted with...


I've got several, including a few of the academic psychiatrists I work with. You're right that this isn't the case for the average American, but for physicians who live in nicer neighborhoods in wealthier zip codes I'm sure it's not uncommon. I don' think anyone would argue that tech would be that much better of a lifestyle than psychiatrist (at least not early on for them), but imo it's overall going to be a more efficient way to FIRE than much of medicine would be...

I’d say even if a speciality is a lifestyle speciality it’s smart to aggressively save early. Work a bit harder, Clear your loans and get a nice nest egg that can start working for you. And if you do this well and you’re not in a VHCOL area you can then have some piece of mind and know you never have to take a job or have your job push you into anything you don’t want. Recently my job tried to tell me I can’t work at another hosptial even though I have since being hired and it’s in my contract that I can. I told them too bad I won’t stop and if they push it I’ll leave them and just work at the other and take a large pay hit but I can because I have no need to work both jobs I just do because I can and they are both available. I want to launch my net worth as high as possible quickly so that the coast can start by 36/37 when I’m nice and young and spry. Just my contrarian thought.

I cant imagine a surgeon after 5-7 years of grinding through a rough residency and busy fellowship and getting at least 500k to start that saving and investing would be the priority. You would be like heck yeah I deserve that at or near million dollar house, nice cars for me and the wife... etc.. I don't blame them they also have even less time to read about finances and what not.

As much as I have spent learning and reading about it I can't deny that after waking up at 4-5am (surgeons) for years of your life then you finally become an attending surgeon no one is living like a resident unless they are in a lifestyle ish surgical specialty. I can't see myself even with what i know being able to not splurge on some of those things. This was ok in the 80s-90 sand early 2000s they made enough to probably still come out fine. The issue is now it really stinks since the pay is not reflective of what they have put themselves through imo

I second that. I’m very glad I didn’t go down the ortho route like I was going to. I’d barely be starting full attending. Instead I’m hitting coast FI if I wanted

This type of thread always makes me depressed. The conclusion I get is:

- you need to make 500k
- your spouse needs to make 500k
- work 30 years, still won't be able to retire


Where's the financially successful folks? Is there a light at the end of the tunnel?

I'm not saying people in this thread are not financially successful btw, I mean people who got there already, not people on the way to get there/trying to, which is most of us

Naw unless your burn is extremely high or in a VHCOL you don’t need that level of income unless you want your nest egg at 10mil+. But it would be nice to have total income fall above 500 if possible which could be you with some hustling or you and a partner. It just makes it easier to get to “I don’t care” (FU)money. But you can easily save 100-200k a year total and in 15-20 years have a solid nest egg and hit coast FI in 7-10 years depending on what you want as your number.

 

[finalpsychyear]

I’d say even if a speciality is a lifestyle speciality it’s smart to aggressively save early. Work a bit harder, Clear your loans and get a nice nest egg that can start working for you. And if you do this well and you’re not in a VHCOL area you can then have some piece of mind and know you never have to take a job or have your job push you into anything you don’t want. Recently my job tried to tell me I can’t work at another hosptial even though I have since being hired and it’s in my contract that I can. I told them too bad I won’t stop and if they push it I’ll leave them and just work at the other and take a large pay hit but I can because I have no need to work both jobs I just do because I can and they are both available. I want to launch my net worth as high as possible quickly so that the coast can start by 36/37 when I’m nice and young and spry. Just my contrarian thought.

I second that. I’m very glad I didn’t go down the ortho route like I was going to. I’d barely be starting full attending. Instead I’m hitting coast FI if I wanted

Naw unless your burn is extremely high or in a VHCOL you don’t need that level of income unless you want your nest egg at 10mil+. But it would be nice to have total income fall above 500 if possible which could be you with some hustling or you and a partner. It just makes it easier to get to “I don’t care” (FU)money. But you can easily save 100-200k a year total and in 15-20 years have a solid nest egg and hit coast FI in 7-10 years depending on what you want as your number.

yeah kudos to u for standing up. I was asked to work 1 day a week for a different entity altogether from my current contract job so they simply want to pay me the same and bag the difference that "lending" me out gets them. I just went along with it eventually for no additional pay. Shows me that I'm not there financially to want to poke the bear. In my defense, 2 years from now I may be in a spot where I would say no way bc I don't want to or ask for more money. Being close to that position I thought short term annoyance but long term win since can just ride this out a bit longer.

i don't think I would have been let go for not doing it but I want to be in a position where it makes no difference and I am not there lol.

 

[Candidate2017]

I was asked to work 1 day a week for a different entity altogether from my current contract job so they simply want to pay me the same and bag the difference that "lending" me out gets them. I just went along with it eventually for no additional pay.

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[Merovinge]

This type of thread always makes me depressed. The conclusion I get is:

- you need to make 500k
- your spouse needs to make 500k
- work 30 years, still won't be able to retire


Where's the financially successful folks? Is there a light at the end of the tunnel?

I'm not saying people in this thread are not financially successful btw, I mean people who got there already, not people on the way to get there/trying to, which is most of us

I'm not sure I follow. I am through 7 years (in a week, I took of the end of fellowship to start attending life early) and my partner through 6 years. We had a negative 150k networth at the start of that time. Even subtracting out a recent private equity buyout, we will have added 2 million to the networth in that time frame. We have an average annual salary of 800k combined (so less than the million you mentioned) and are easily on pace to FIRE by 45 with 5 million. I am absolutely not going to stop working then, I like my job too much, but there is plenty of financial light at the end of this tunnel at least.

I will say we net around 500k after taxes and spend around 125k. Some people would consider that lavish, others would say it's some overly restricted sad existence. Throwing 350k+ a year into retirement gets the machine rolling quickly.

 

[Bartelby]

I'm not sure I follow. I am through 7 years (in a week, I took of the end of fellowship to start attending life early) and my partner through 6 years. We had a negative 150k networth at the start of that time. Even subtracting out a recent private equity buyout, we will have added 2 million to the networth in that time frame. We have an average annual salary of 800k combined (so less than the million you mentioned) and are easily on pace to FIRE by 45 with 5 million. I am absolutely not going to stop working then, I like my job too much, but there is plenty of financial light at the end of this tunnel at least.

I will say we net around 500k after taxes and spend around 125k. Some people would consider that lavish, others would say it's some overly restricted sad existence. Throwing 350k+ a year into retirement gets the machine rolling quickly.

Seconding this. I am a similar amount of time out of training with a high-earning partner, total combined household income last year also close to that $800k mark. In a HCOL area with kids and starting at a similar negative 120k or so net worth we are currently at ~1.4 million net worth.

I am fairly frugal, but we still often go out to restaurants, go on nice vacations ($5k to 11k range 1-2x per year with a few cheaper trips mixed in), and never really feel like I am depriving myself. We could save more aggressively but have no intention of stopping work, so have been fine with a somewhat slower savings rate.

Something like $800k is a firehose of cash, and with even a little frugality you should be able to accumulate a high net worth pretty quickly. Being reasonable on big-ticket spending like your home (don't buy that $3 million place and end up house poor!) goes a very long way. Then keep in mind that you can "have anything but not everything." For example, if you are not a car person then keep driving your econobox instead of buying/leasing a cutting-edge luxury car. All those "little" decisions diverging with the usual choices in this income bracket add up quickly. And obviously things like tax-deferred employer-matched retirement accounts help too!

 

[Merovinge]

Seconding this. I am a similar amount of time out of training with a high-earning partner, total combined household income last year also close to that $800k mark. In a HCOL area with kids and starting at a similar negative 120k or so net worth we are currently at ~1.4 million net worth.

I am fairly frugal, but we still often go out to restaurants, go on nice vacations ($5k to 11k range 1-2x per year with a few cheaper trips mixed in), and never really feel like I am depriving myself. We could save more aggressively but have no intention of stopping work, so have been fine with a somewhat slower savings rate.

Something like $800k is a firehose of cash, and with even a little frugality you should be able to accumulate a high net worth pretty quickly. Being reasonable on big-ticket spending like your home (don't buy that $3 million place and end up house poor!) goes a very long way. Then keep in mind that you can "have anything but not everything." For example, if you are not a car person then keep driving your econobox instead of buying/leasing a cutting-edge luxury car. All those "little" decisions diverging with the usual choices in this income bracket add up quickly. And obviously things like tax-deferred employer-matched retirement accounts help too!

I'm not a car person and felt that way but have felt better opening up the strings a bit. I drive a 7 year old BMW 2series I bought with cash my first year as an attending, had to shop around to find the one with the smallest engine and no addons . We recently got a Model Y and it's both a very fun and practical vehicle, particularly with a dog and a child. Put about 20k miles/year on it and charge it off solar, was definitely worth it over an econobox.

 

[Splenda88]

I just do not have a lot of (any?) friends with 7 figure nest eggs and statistically, most other people also don't. I cannot relate to the keeping up with Jones' mindset at all. As a physician, I feel soooooooo far ahead of pretty much everyone else around me financially and I'm still almost a decade away from 50. I'm frankly way ahead of the Jones. Also...I could easily argue that working in tech, particularly in jobs that could feasibly lead to 7 figure nest eggs before 50, has an even worse working environment than psychiatry residency, much less attendinghood. Psychiatry is just really great and no, NPs are not coming for your job. AI, maybe, but that's how they got those 7 figure nest eggs.

I never understand the SDN grass is greener when they know only 17% of people make 100k+/year.

 

[Splenda88]

That's exactly my point. Even for surgeons, it is very difficult to FIRE in their 40's unless they're either making 7 figures and living "reasonably" so they can invest near $500k/yr or making mid/upper 6 figures and living frugally or even like a resident which I have not seen any surgeons do. Imo it's not unreasonable for most physicians to hit FIRE in their 50's (which is still 10-15 years early on retirement) and live a fairly comfortable lifestyle, especially if have a working spouse and no kids. This idea that a lot of med students or younger people have of hitting FIRE in their 40's and then never having to work again or barely work at all is just not realistic if they're only counting on a salary from medical work. If they've got a strong income outside of medicine as well, then sure, but this idea that physician income + playing the markets right is a great path to early FIRE is just not realistic for the vast majority of physicians.


None of those things are true unless you want to live lavishly and not follow basic rules for retirement. You may need to work for 30 years (which is still less than the average American) but if you're putting 20% of your income towards retirement and expect a "normal" retirement this should not be an issue. If you make $300k/yr and only put $50k/yr into retirement (<17%) you'll still have a nest egg of over $5mil in 30 years at a 6% interest rate, which means $200k to pull year from retirement if you follow the 4% rule. That's not accounting for a lot of things, but these are still generally valid rules and the scenario above should be easily attainable for most physicians.

Most physicians can be financially independent in their mid 40s if they complete residency between the age 28-32y. You just have to make it a priority.

If you invest 100k/yr for 12 yrs, you will have 2+ mil using 10% return (S&P500).

 

[Splenda88]

I'm not a car person and felt that way but have felt better opening up the strings a bit. I drive a 7 year old BMW 2series I bought with cash my first year as an attending, had to shop around to find the one with the smallest engine and no addons . We recently got a Model Y and it's both a very fun and practical vehicle, particularly with a dog and a child. Put about 20k miles/year on it and charge it off solar, was definitely worth it over an econobox.

How do you like Model Y long range? I will pick up one in 4 days that I ordered ~3 weeks ago. I purchased it for 53k and I am having buyer remorse already because my net worth (1.1+ mil) is not where it should be for me to be spending that much money in a car.

 

[Bartelby]

I'm not a car person and felt that way but have felt better opening up the strings a bit. I drive a 7 year old BMW 2series I bought with cash my first year as an attending, had to shop around to find the one with the smallest engine and no addons . We recently got a Model Y and it's both a very fun and practical vehicle, particularly with a dog and a child. Put about 20k miles/year on it and charge it off solar, was definitely worth it over an econobox.

Yeah the model Y is pretty nice, and at least some of the cost of ownership analysis I have seen suggests the cost isn't too outlandish. Overall a good car choice, which is part of why those seem to be everywhere these days.

And it seems you are still at a really impressive savings rate! A fairly nice family car is probably one of the "worth it" items for many people.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

How do you like Model Y long range? I will pick up one in 4 days that I ordered ~3 weeks ago. I purchased it for 53k and I am having buyer remorse already because my net worth (1.1+ mil) is not where it should be for me to be spending that much money in a car.

Some of the stuff on here is the most humblebraggy ridiculousness….

Yes if your household income is 800k (well over 99th percentile is the US for income) you can save a buttload of money. Yes if your net worth is a million dollars you can afford a car price barely above the average for new cars sold in the US.

Anyway I’d be more concerned you got a terrible deal considering I can pick up a used 2021 model Y AWD with 35,688 miles for 32,100 direct from Tesla.

 

[finalpsychyear]

How do you like Model Y long range? I will pick up one in 4 days that I ordered ~3 weeks ago. I purchased it for 53k and I am having buyer remorse already because my net worth (1.1+ mil) is not where it should be for me to be spending that much money in a car.

Right now they have 0.99% financing for 5 years so that's a steal instead of buying right now. Since u haven't picked it up I would urge u to do that and invest the cash heck even a savings acct gives u 5%

 

[Splenda88]

Right now they have 0.99% financing for 7 years so that's a steal instead of buying right now

Already bought at 6.49% and I am in talk with them to get the 0.99%. I think it's a good deal instead of buying a 3yr old with 40k mile for 35k

 

[finalpsychyear]

Already bought at 6.49% and talking with them to get the 0.99%. I think it's a good deal instead of buying a 3yr old with 40k mile for 35k

Till u pick it up it's not final. Under no circumstances should u not get the 0.99 or walk till they do it. Good luck

 

[Splenda88]

Till u pick it up it's not final. Under no circumstances should u not get the 0.99 or walk till they do it. Good luck

Their customer service is HORRIBLE. Cant get anyone to talk to.