@Merovinge appears to have based that calculation on 365.2 days per year. The actual average number of days the US financial markets are open is 252. If we use that figure, after 10 years the initial $1000 would have grown only to a mere $287,392,629.78. Much more realistic.
Yeah. I am trying to be FI as quick as possible. Any big purchase put me a step behind.
Well yea, it's smart to aggressively save early in any situation with compounding interest. The issue becomes at what cost to lifestyle and happiness are you doing so? I'm younger than your target coasting age and am already seeing significant age-related health changes. Some of the stuff I did in my 20's (was non-trad, so got to do some cool stuff like high level sports) would be impossible for me even now. I think a lot of people underestimate how much the body changes in the 30's. That's also the age when a lot of people have young families which is when kids are most expensive. Nothing wrong with making those sacrifices for those that want to, but some people (and/or their spouses) aren't willing to.
Not really. Keep in mind that unless someone graduates early or is accelerated even a 3 year resident graduates at 29 yo, most will finish at least a couple of years later than that, and those shorter fields are typically bottom of the barrel pay other than EM. None of those fields are going to be able to invest $100k/yr as single income unless they're living like a resident and/or hustling. Good luck if they've got other expenses.
Agree 100%. Most physicians I know do very well, but even most of the surgeons aren't touching $800k/yr. Even for the DINK physician couples I know that's fairly high. I know a few physicians that hit 7 figures, but they are either very savvy or hustling hard (both for the 2 psychiatrists I know).
IM/FM residencies are 3-yr and most IM/FM docs can make 350k+ without killing themselves.
Not this again... but I heard one does a bazillion dollars.
You really think like rich physicians... private school, private university etc.. for your kids
foolwealth.com
You really think like rich physicians... private school, private university etc.. for your kids
If the S&P500 continues to return 11%+, only maxing out your 401k/IRA/HSA will get you close to 1.2 mil in 15 yrs.
Only 3.2% of American retire with 1+ mil
Are You In The Top 3% of Retirees?
Only 3% of retirement savers have $1 million or more in tax-advantaged retirement accounts.
Again, if one makes it a priority, you should be able to do it.
I have 7.5 years to see if I will be able to do it in 10 yrs with a family of 4. My number is 2+ mil plus a paid off home. I consider that number to be FI, but will not retire.
You seem to think YOUR kids will go to medical school.
Lol why? The return on investment of medical school is more than financially worth it compared to stopping at a bachelor’s with average performance in literally any college major. Obviously it’s different if you’re a coding savant or IB recruit but that’s like a sub 2% amount of all college students.
Fair enough, I’d raise the bar to 75th percentile. Which outside of medicine probably leads to 100-150k range at the apex of their career.
I agree. But not everyone wants to go to school for 11 yrs, or has an IQ of 1 standard deviation above average.
Not totally sure about that. You need to be a risk taker to succeed in business and based on my experience, at lot of (probably most) doctors are risk-averse.
lol. The people I know (family and friends) who went into consulting and investing banking are just as, if not more, risk averse as the people who went into medicine. McKinsey literally recruits specifically for people with anxious personalities. Yes, it takes a higher level of risk tolerance to go make a startup but most people going into business are not going that route. They’re taking the “cog-in-a-wheel” path that leads up the corporate ladder.
lol, I hope they don’t. I also don’t live in IL so the part you bolded wouldn’t apply, just saying that price tag is the reality for many people. Also, physicians children are more likely to become physicians than kids with non-physician parents. Per some sources up to 24x more likely (The Class Ceiling). Any physician with kids who plan to help pay for their UG or grad school should be prepared for exorbitant costs.
Intelligence isn’t really the thing that makes med students successful. Yes, a baseline level of intelligence is needed. However, organization and efficiency in learning is the most significant factor imo, followed by work ethic, then “intelligence” is third by a significant margin.
Atreides is more correct that it's "risk-tolerance" that is the personality trait, but incorrect that risk-aversion is more common among the rich. High risk aversion is actually more common among middle-class individuals while higher risk tolerance is one of the traits associated with building wealth. Medicine is a bit of an outlier with this our industry in general has a high basement for earnings with high job stability, so those who are less risk averse can still do very well. In most other industries though, high risk aversion is a barrier to significant wealth accumulation without very significant sacrifices. There are sociologists and psychologists who study this for a living and the data for this is pretty decent:
www.nature.com
I guess it really depends what are the jobs that you do and the hustle but there is no reason it’s a massive detractor from a good life with time for a social and family life. And for sure there can be changes in what your body allows in your 30s but you’ll experience a lot less regression or none if you make sure to get some walking(IE don’t be sedentary) in and gets some weight training in at minimum 3x a week and eat decent (control bw). I’d also just be contradictory in arguing make the sacrifice of time with family and kids when they are super young and won’t really be forming memories so that you have extra time when they hit 5-7+ and you can really start to be around extra.
Problem is most seemingly lose that work ethic even once they hit residency and post. Because is most physicians kept up that work ethic they’d also FatFire by 45
Except we can go into medicine with a good performance at any 4 year accredited uni. I have friends in finance too, no one is giving you the time of day at these high paying finance jobs unless you’re from a target school or your uncle works there. I guarantee you it is a hell of a lot easier to get into a state U make a 3.35 Bio GPA, get a 500 MCAT and go to DO school compared to busting ass starting 9th grade to make sure you get into ivy then, once at an ivy, running around for internships and connections in the hopes that you might land into one of these very few high paying openings while competing against other Harvard and Yale tier students.
Again, We can debate on the exact cut off for what is a “prestigious” uni. But I assume you would agree that getting a 3.35 gpa and a 500 mcat at literally ANY university is way easier than breaking into IB.
That is a valid point - 'Murica is an amazing country, full of opportunities and potential, and many europeans envy this "american dream" and choose to become american citizens to live it for themselves. The opposite is true as well, and a lot of americans find solace in a more moderate lifestyle that european countries provide. There isn't a right answer, and no one size fits all approach helps.
Gonna disagree unless we compare apples to apples. You are talking about he top 1% of finance making that kind of money which is for sure possible. But then we have to compare to the top 1% of their respective medical field which then the slider of income to work shifts. If we want to use our own personal anecdotes as reliable sources my n=5 of my highest earning friends all hit just 1million and 3 are 2+ working 35-45 hours a week all in their mid 30s. I also know they are outliers and won’t truly use them as examples. I know I could go across the top of finance and find people making great money with decent work life but they are at the top of their game.
Sometimes. Sometimes not. I got in with a ~3.2 GPA and 3.1 sGPA in UG with a 29 MCAT. Granted, I did get a master's from a very reputable program where I had a 3.8 GPA, but honestly that degree was much easier than my UG degree. I also had to apply more than once, but there are definitely med schools (especially newer ones and DO schools) where a 3.8 GPA and >80th percentile MCAT are not necessary at all, people with lower stats just need to be smarter about how they apply and build their application.
You don't have to be top 1% of the finance field to do well. I know several people who went to small liberal arts schools for businesses and had 6 figure jobs straight out of college. My roommate for most of college did and has been making >$150k for over 10 years (currently making closer to $250k last I talked to him). One of my best friends growing up makes closer to mid 6-figures now. Most of these people were and still are hard workers (not close to I-banking level, but 50 hour weeks are nbd to them) and are very good at networking. If you're the kind of person who just wants to put your head down and work, you're probably going to struggle to make medicine money in finances. If you're a hard worker and know how to network, there are plenty of open doors. I'm not talking about "boats and h*s" money, but they will be millionaires well before I am and some of them already are (in their mid-30's).
My point exactly.
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I was told people who are successful in finance usually work 60+ in their first few years. If that is the case, I wouldn't call that enjoying life.
I wonder about the percentage of people with business/finance/CS degree that make 100-150k bestrewn the age of 23-30. My impression is that it might be only the top 10%.
I truly have never understood those that complained that med school and residency were so hard they didn’t have a good life. It wasn’t that hard or time consuming. Now where I will agree is the lost opportunity cost of going backwards in net worth while those in fintech were moving forward (as long as they are smart with their work and spending)
That is how psych residency should be everywhere.
I was a non traditional student in my 30s. My med school classmates partied more than most people that were in their 20s.
Our residency was known to be a middle ground of “hard and “easy” call was rough but it wasn’t all the time. Night float made it hard but you had a weekend always through the month. And if you prioritized workouts, and a social life there was plenty of life to be lived. I could agree more.
Absolutely
A few of the med students I know seem to continue this tread
How many hours of actual work a week is required for 40 patient billable hours? I realize that there is other stuff like charting/insurance to deal with
I love that graphic, but it's not really relevant to the discussion. That shows households in the 1% which is quite different than single earners, otherwise there's no way teachers would be the 5th highest career in the top 1 percenters. It's also talking about the top 1%, which is $400k/yr, very different from 100k/yr.I wonder about the percentage of people with business/finance/CS degree that make 100-150k bestrewn the age of 23-30. My impression is that it might be only the top 10%.
I always go back to this.
The Top 1 Percent: What Jobs Do They Have?
Explore the occupations and industries of the nation's wealthiest households.archive.nytimes.com
They weren't really wrong at all though. The reason most people work, including physicians, is to make money. Hopefully people will do something they enjoy a little and find purpose from, but how many people do you honestly know would continue to do their specific job if they were only paid the minimum to get by (housing, food, transport, downtime)? If this were a communist society where everyone got equal pay for hours worked you really think most physicians would still choose to be physicians with everything our job entails? I almost certainly wouldn't given the level of responsibility and liability we have...
Thank you, hopefully we can all do so...
