How long should the lock down last?

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Birdstrike said:
Sloppy?

Dude, how can you not know where Whitmer is from? She's been all over the news as a possible VP contender (but lost that gig because she's not...uh...um...oh, forget it) and has been Vice Chief of Lockdowns, second only to Chief of Lockdowns Cuomo (who's from New York, if you need me to spell it out). And after reading my rants for almost 10 years, you should know I don't "cut and paste" unless I put it in quotes. You didn't even click the link, to see if I was just making it up? I back my stuff up and post the source links for a reason.

Man...and I've been such a good boy lately, too. Sheez. :lol:


"Let us do the very best that we can
While we're travelin' through this land
We can all be together, shakin' a hand
When we make it to the promised land" - as sung by Jerry Garcia Band (written by Charles Johnson)
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Yeah, I still don't know, but care less. I know Cuomo, because that's my state. That you did spell out, but, still, didn't answer my question. As I say, not relevant to me.

As to GV and "Sisolak", that name doesn't even ring a bell.
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Apollyon said:
Yeah, I still don't know, but care less. I know Cuomo, because that's my state. That you did spell out, but, still, didn't answer my question. As I say, not relevant to me.

As to GV and "Sisolak", that name doesn't even ring a bell.
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Sisolak. That's the guy in Nevada that increases COVID restrictions every time cases go down.
 
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Birdstrike said:
Sisolak. That's the guy in Nevada that increases COVID restrictions every time cases go down.
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Right. Our cases have fallen by half, and mortality has pleatuead. They were supposed to consider re-opening bars today with heavy restrictions, but the Governor says no. Still strange that if the bars serve food they can be open....
 
GeneralVeers said:
Right. Our cases have fallen by half, and mortality has pleatuead. They were supposed to consider re-opening bars today with heavy restrictions, but the Governor says no. Still strange that if the bars serve food they can be open....
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Bars in Mississippi (no I'm not from there) are free to open but must close at 11pm because that is when covid comes out... But the bars in the casinos can remain open all night because covid doesn't gamble.
In New Orleans bars are shut down, but bars in casinos are open because like before covid doesn't gamble.
Guys this is science not about money.
 
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southerndoc said:
2 floors. 263,000 square feet. It's awesome though. We have a 12-bed critical care area and 3 of the rooms have huge doors as back walls. They literally open straight into a room with a CT scanner. We have 4 dedicated CT scanners, 2 ultrasound techs, 1 MRI dedicated just to the ER. They objected to my recommendation to put the CT scanner between the ambulance doors so people can get their pan scan before they're roomed. :)
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This is incredible. Roughly how many hours of physician coverage are there a day with a shop this big?
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
I just don't get Texas. If the state that started the whole thing can teach that slavery was the main cause, not sure why everyone else doesn't.
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A friend of mine who was educated in Illinois, the Land of Lincoln, and who majored in history in college told me as recently as 2 weeks ago that "the Civil War was fought over States' rights". So I think that narrative is still out there. Good on your schools for teaching you better.

While we're on the topic of coronavirus: Tom Petty's Wildflowers will finally be reissued on vinyl!
 
WilcoWorld said:
A friend of mine who was educated in Illinois, the Land of Lincoln, and who majored in history in college told me as recently as 2 weeks ago that "the Civil War was fought over States' rights". So I think that narrative is still out there. Good on your schools for teaching you better.

While we're on the topic of coronavirus: Tom Petty's Wildflowers will finally be reissued on vinyl!
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Well technically that's true... the States' rights to allow slavery. He/she apparently just didn't learn the second half of that statement.
 
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VA Hopeful Dr said:
Well technically that's true... the States' rights to allow slavery. He/she apparently just didn't learn the second half of that statement.
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Yeah, but he was arguing that the Civil War was not fought over Slavery, it was instead fought over States' Rights. So, while you could say it was technically true, the technical truth is designed to obscure the actual truth.
 
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Whether you died from COVID-19, from something else but with COVID-19, even from suicide, OD or trauma, it doesn’t matter. Inflate the numbers, baby!

"Every single person who has COVID-19 listed anywhere on their death certificate is in fact counted... and anyone who has a COVID-19 positive test within a certain period of when they died is also counted." -Arizona (Maricopa County) Government Official

#Science
 
I remember my college history professor maintained that the civil war wasn't about (primarily) about slavery either. He struck me as a good, sensible guy (and was a tenured professor at a major university in a liberal town). I recall that he felt it was the final conflict of a longstanding divergence between the industrializing north and the non-industrializing south. He likened it to the final battle between those who favored the constitution vs those who desired a looser 'articles of confederation' style gov't. He pointed to the fact that the emancipation proclamation wasn't issued until halfway through the war (and didn't even free all slaves) as supporting this.

I think there's some merit to this arguement, but it's missing the trees for the forest.
 
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Lockdown Scam Targeting Parents/College Students:

Announce your college will reopen for in-person school, with no intention of actually doing so. Then, collect tuition checks. After cashing checks, reverse course at the last minute for “safety,” and announce the remote learning you planned all along. If cases are down, up, stable, it doesn’t matter. Get the money. Then close. Get paid all semester for staying home. You paid for higher eduction & all the benefits of campus, instead you get an online degree and mountains of debt.

Hundreds of Colleges Reverse Reopening Plans
 
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Birdstrike said:
Whether you died from COVID-19, from something else but with COVID-19, even from suicide, OD or trauma, it doesn’t matter. Inflate the numbers, baby!

"Every single person who has COVID-19 listed anywhere on their death certificate is in fact counted... and anyone who has a COVID-19 positive test within a certain period of when they died is also counted." -Arizona (Maricopa County) Government Official

#Science
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So are you suggesting that instead of saying 10-50k die of the flu each year, we should clarify that only a few hundred die of influenza, and 9-49k die of bacterial pneumonia?

Or that "cancer" barely kills anyone, but many die of VTE, sepsis, malnutrion, bleeding or malnutrition?

I guess "strokes" don't really kill that many people either. Come to think of it, who actually dies of an MI. People actually succumb to a malignant arrhythmia or cardiogenic shock.

#Proximatevsultimate
 
turkeyjerky said:
So are you suggesting that instead of saying 10-50k die of the flu each year, we should clarify that only a few hundred die of influenza, and 9-49k die of bacterial pneumonia?

Or that "cancer" barely kills anyone, but many die of VTE, sepsis, malnutrion, bleeding or malnutrition?

I guess "strokes" don't really kill that many people either. Come to think of it, who actually dies of an MI. People actually succumb to a malignant arrhythmia or cardiogenic shock.

#Proximatevsultimate
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I’m not suggesting anything. Watch the video. Listen to the government official. Make your own judgements.
 
turkeyjerky said:
I remember my college history professor maintained that the civil war wasn't about (primarily) about slavery either. He struck me as a good, sensible guy (and was a tenured professor at a major university in a liberal town). I recall that he felt it was the final conflict of a longstanding divergence between the industrializing north and the non-industrializing south. He likened it to the final battle between those who favored the constitution vs those who desired a looser 'articles of confederation' style gov't. He pointed to the fact that the emancipation proclamation wasn't issued until halfway through the war (and didn't even free all slaves) as supporting this.

I think there's some merit to this arguement, but it's missing the trees for the forest.
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Well sure, I mean Lincoln did say this: "...If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that...."

But the non-industrializing south was able to exist that way because of slaves. Its like saying that China's economy is built on manufactured goods but ignoring that they are only able to compete because of incredibly low wages to make said goods.
 
@VA Hopeful Dr and @turkeyjerky - it sounds like we all agree on the important facts of this matter. Sure, we could argue the finer points for a long time, but that will a) not contribute to this thread's subject and will b) possibly provide in-roads to some seriously jacka$$ comments. So maybe we can just leave it at the observation that @VA Hopeful Dr seems to have had a good history prof and move on?
 
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WilcoWorld said:
@VA Hopeful Dr and @turkeyjerky - it sounds like we all agree on the important facts of this matter. Sure, we could argue the finer points for a long time, but that will a) not contribute to this thread's subject and will b) possibly provide in-roads to some seriously jacka$$ comments. So maybe we can just leave it at the observation that @VA Hopeful Dr seems to have had a good history prof and move on?
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I just got here, so, imma adds this: I, also, was taught that the Civil War was not about slavery, but, state's rights. This was in upstate NY, 34 years ago. However, the logical conclusion was that it WAS state's rights - to keep slavery as an institution. So, A to B, but, just A to B to C, to the same result.
 
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There will be a lot more of these scams. Now businesses can cut cost/raise prices by just saying: "Cuz of COVID". Just look at food/beverage service on airlines. They have the same number of required FAs, but have cut back on service for "safety".
 
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Renaissance Man said:
This is incredible. Roughly how many hours of physician coverage are there a day with a shop this big?
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130-150 hours of attending coverage depending on day (plus 36 hours of pediatric attending coverage). We also have residents (paired 1:1 with attendings).
 
Per-capita American deaths:

1) 1918 Flu (6,540/M)
2) 1957-58 Asian Flu (666/M)
3) 2020 China/COVID-19 (537/M)


1598039157954.jpeg
 
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Was this over the whole course of the pandemic? The 1918 flu lasted two years. Covid has been in the US much less than a year.
 
GeneralVeers said:
People living in those times were fortunate to not have 24-hour cable news with time time to fill. Cable news has probably been one of the most destructive forces in American society.
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You seem conspiratorial.

Science has just advanced enough to diagnose this virus, but not to cure it. Therefore, people are far more careful than in 1918. Back then, they didn't know better and just died.
 
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miacomet said:
Was this over the whole course of the pandemic? The 1918 flu lasted two years. Covid has been in the US much less than a year.
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Plus in 1918 medicine had pretty much nothing to offer flu patients. No antibiotics for post-flu pneumonia, no ventilators, not even sure nasal cannula oxygen was a thing.
 
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GeneralVeers said:
People living in those times were fortunate to not have 24-hour cable news with time time to fill. Cable news has probably been one of the most destructive forces in American society.
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For once I can agree with you on something! I'd take it a step farther and blame on TV in general, but that's me...
 
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Want to go back on lockdown? Here’s how to get there:

Biden to ABC Reporter: ‘I Would Listen to the Scientists and Shut the Entire Country Down’ to Stop the Spread of COVID-19
 
Birdstrike said:
Want to go back on lockdown? Here’s how to get there:

Biden to ABC Reporter: ‘I Would Listen to the Scientists and Shut the Entire Country Down’ to Stop the Spread of COVID-19
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I believe he would. Another reason not to vote for him. We've proved that non-targeted, generalized state lockdowns don't work. Why would a national one? Also who gets to pick the "scientists" he listens to? Like Climate Change, there's a diversity of opinion on the subject.
 
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Birdstrike said:
Want to go back on lockdown? Here’s how to get there:

Biden to ABC Reporter: ‘I Would Listen to the Scientists and Shut the Entire Country Down’ to Stop the Spread of COVID-19
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This is essentially guaranteed. Trumps chances of losing are pretty high so I'd expect this soon.
 
southerndoc said:
2 floors. 263,000 square feet. It's awesome though. We have a 12-bed critical care area and 3 of the rooms have huge doors as back walls. They literally open straight into a room with a CT scanner. We have 4 dedicated CT scanners, 2 ultrasound techs, 1 MRI dedicated just to the ER. They objected to my recommendation to put the CT scanner between the ambulance doors so people can get their pan scan before they're roomed. :)
Click to expand...

Had to use mass transfusion protocol the other night... unique challenges for the blood bank/lab being across the street. Can't tube MTP blood products (too bulky) through the turbo tube (yes, it's really faster than a regular tube system -- didn't know that existed). The lab didn't want to put a dedicated STAT lab in our ED (yet) due to budgetary concerns with COVID. So we had to buy a quarter million dollar blood Pez dispenser. Takes literally a minute to get uncrossmatched or MTP blood. Pretty cool actually.

61946556009__9FA7E796-3F68-4B5B-AD3E-AD415C61C285.jpeg
 
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Rekt said:
This is essentially guaranteed. Trumps chances of losing are pretty high so I'd expect this soon.
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Trump is president for at least another 5 months. A lot can change regarding the pandemic before January 20th, 2021.
 
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La Cumbre Lines said:
Not a great comparison. It’s much easier to debate purely political ideas regarding the appropriate response to a novel pandemic in the globalized, Information Age. There is indeed a diversity of opinion on climate change - that all ignores the facts and also ignores what 99% of climate scientists agree upon.
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Disagree about the 99%, however don't want to get into an argument about climate change. My point was that they are similar in the COVID-19 response and climate change have different data sets, different models, different predictions, and different goals. All of it in both issues is tied directly to politics and the distribution of resources and/or government power.
 
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Rekt said:
This is essentially guaranteed. Trumps chances of losing are pretty high so I'd expect this soon.
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Naw, still think people might be in for a shock. Biden is polling at 4.3% ahead in the battleground states. That sounds like a lot, except that Hillary was at 4.8% in those same states at this point in time in 2016. A lot can change by October. Both parties will roll out their "October surprises", which will be dirt on the opposition. We will see who can dig deeper....
 
GeneralVeers said:
Disagree about the 99%, however don't want to get into an argument about climate change. My point was that they are similar in the COVID-19 response and climate change have different data sets, different models, different predictions, and different goals. All of it in both issues is tied directly to politics and the distribution of resources and/or government power.
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If I characterized your position as "the US government should not regulate business or consumer behavior with the goal of mitigating climate change or COVID19" would you object?
 
GeneralVeers said:
Naw, still think people might be in for a shock. Biden is polling at 4.3% ahead in the battleground states. That sounds like a lot, except that Hillary was at 4.8% in those same states at this point in time in 2016. A lot can change by October. Both parties will roll out their "October surprises", which will be dirt on the opposition. We will see who can dig deeper....
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On election night 2016 Nate Silver's 538 election model gave our President a 29% chance of winning, as of now, while Biden's riding a sigh of relief out of the convention they give him a 27% chance of winning. People don't seem to understand that 27% is a pretty good chance of winning!

Those who count him out in 2020 are making the same mistake that those who counted him out in 2016 were making. This election may not be "anybody's game" but it's far from decided.
 
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WilcoWorld said:
If I characterized your position as "the US government should not regulate business or consumer behavior with the goal of mitigating climate change or COVID19" would you object?
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Correct. Because our government action likely can't significantly influence each other their. In the process of futile action, it will cause catastrophic harm.
 
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GeneralVeers said:
Both parties will roll out their "October surprises", which will be dirt on the opposition. We will see who can dig deeper....
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Dig deeper and find what? That one of the candidates is openly racist & misogynistic, supports white nationalist & Q-anon, mocks the physically handicapped and dead military heroes, has just about ever high ranking official from his election campaign arrested or indicted, slept with and then paid off a porn star, asked Russia to interfere in our elections, or has so far made 20,000+ false/misleading statements thus far in his presidency?

Also there is no diversity of opinion on climate change. There is fact and then there is Fox News. Absolutely stunning that you chose that as an example.
 
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Renaissance Man said:
Dig deeper and find what? That one of the candidates is openly racist & misogynistic, supports white nationalist & Q-anon, mocks the physically handicapped and dead military heroes, has just about ever high ranking official from his election campaign arrested or indicted, slept with and then paid off a porn star, asked Russia to interfere in our elections, or has so far made 20,000+ false/misleading statements thus far in his presidency?

Also there is no diversity of opinion on climate change. There is fact and then there is Fox News. Absolutely stunning that you chose that as an example.
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Huh? About October surprises? This happens every election. I didn't say dirt on Trump (though they could). They are just as likely to release last minute oppo research on Biden. That's how it works.
 
To the OP, I think it's a moot issue at this point. If I'm not mistaken, there are no stay at home orders in the country at this moment. I don't think it's coming back. For a while, I was worried about the area I live in, but the statewide masking order and individual behavior changes may have turned the tide.

As for schools, I think it's safe to say that none of us parents have a friggin' clue what to do right now...
 
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bravotwozero said:
To the OP, I think it's a moot issue at this point. If I'm not mistaken, there are no stay at home orders in the country at this moment. I don't think it's coming back. For a while, I was worried about the area I live in, but the statewide masking order and individual behavior changes may have turned the tide.

As for schools, I think it's safe to say that none of us parents have a friggin' clue what to do right now...
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The schools issue is incredibly complex
 
bravotwozero said:
To the OP, I think it's a moot issue at this point. If I'm not mistaken, there are no stay at home orders in the country at this moment. I don't think it's coming back. For a while, I was worried about the area I live in, but the statewide masking order and individual behavior changes may have turned the tide.

As for schools, I think it's safe to say that none of us parents have a friggin' clue what to do right now...
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There's nothing that poor and middle-class parents can do in many states. They are trapped by the education monopoly in their states. Wealthy parents can at least send their kids to private school.
 
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GeneralVeers said:
There's nothing that poor and middle-class parents can do in many states. They are trapped by the education monopoly in their states. Wealthy parents can at least send their kids to private school.
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Another reason to support vouchers
 
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