How long should the lock down last?

[VA Hopeful Dr]

There's nothing that poor and middle-class parents can do in many states. They are trapped by the education monopoly in their states. Wealthy parents can at least send their kids to private school.

Our kids school this year has the highest enrollment in the last 20 years thanks to COVID.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Our kids school this year has the highest enrollment in the last 20 years thanks to COVID.

Private school?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Private school?

Yep

 

[deleted1005514]

There's nothing that poor and middle-class parents can do in many states. They are trapped by the education monopoly in their states. Wealthy parents can at least send their kids to private school.

And some schools are being obstinate on crazy things even though they don't have to be, just so they can implement their ill-conceived plan exactly the way they want to. Like doing high school as 3 classes in the fall and 4 classes in the spring (fine, whatever, like college), and having a 4th block open in the fall, but only for specific online classes. I did email battle all day Friday trying to get them to accept that any online class could fill that 4th block and not count against the total in-person classes for the semester (max of 3), if a kid wanted to take an extra elective and was mature enough and had high enough prior grades to prove they could handle it. They finally caved but the amount of resistance was ridiculous over a freaking online class!

 

[wamcp]

Kentucky Man Accused Of Breaking Canada's COVID-19 Rules Faces $569,000 Fine

John Pennington was arrested and charged with violating Canada's Quarantine Act while visiting the town of Banff, Alberta. Police saw his Ohio plates at the parking lot for a sightseeing gondola.

www.npr.org

We should become like the great communist nation of Canada.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Kentucky Man Accused Of Breaking Canada's COVID-19 Rules Faces $569,000 Fine

John Pennington was arrested and charged with violating Canada's Quarantine Act while visiting the town of Banff, Alberta. Police saw his Ohio plates at the parking lot for a sightseeing gondola.

www.npr.org

We should become like the great communist nation of Canada.

A terrifying vision of things to come here... Oh wait we have Hawaii.

 

[deleted480308]

A terrifying vision of things to come here... Oh wait we have Hawaii.

The rule is dumb but it’s interesting how hard they are on illegal immigrants while maintaining such a nice reputation

 

[Birdstrike]

Is the CDC saying that only 6% of "COVID-19 deaths" were exclusively from COVID, as opposed to simply with COVID, but from other causes?

 

[bravotwozero]

Kentucky Man Accused Of Breaking Canada's COVID-19 Rules Faces $569,000 Fine

John Pennington was arrested and charged with violating Canada's Quarantine Act while visiting the town of Banff, Alberta. Police saw his Ohio plates at the parking lot for a sightseeing gondola.

www.npr.org

We should become like the great communist nation of Canada.

That was not his first offense, he knew what he was getting into.

 

[roastedcapers]

Are Lockdowns A Really Dumb Strategy?

And the answer is...

zdoggmd.com

COMMENTARY: My views on cloth face coverings for the public for preventing COVID-19

www.cidrap.umn.edu

COVID-19: Has the Mortality Rate Declined?

New data and an intriguing case example suggest the mortality rate may be decreasing. What does this mean for the days ahead?

www.psychiatrictimes.com

I'm just a psychiatric nurse practitioner, but have some friends in ER and avid follower of all things questioning the lock down and insane narratives in the news.

I understand that most physicians have good reasons not to speak out against lock downs as it could harm your career or get you in trouble. But what if you anonymous physicians on this forum got together with the other experts listed above, and whoever else is a voice of reason in this mess, and stood up for sanity, to save millions from starving to death in undeveloped countries or being deprived treatment for other diseases, to save the poor from becoming poorer, young children from losing their education and widening the education gap, incomplete science being turned to restrictions on rights to freedom, education, work, while journalists are the ones who decide what we believe?

E.g.:

Goldman Sachs | Insights - Face Masks and GDP

www.goldmansachs.com

.

produces 8 Google pages of headline articles in all various news outlets. THERE IS NO CONTROL FOR LOCKDOWN. I'm not an expert on epidemiology by any means, but this screams spin and the lack of questioning from any major news source is extremely concerning. Also, I suspect censorship from Google, because there is literally no search result that questions this article.

 

[WilcoWorld]

if you anonymous physicians on this forum got together with the other experts listed above, and whoever else is a voice of reason in this mess, and stood up for sanity, to save millions from starving to death in undeveloped countries or being deprived treatment for other diseases, to save the poor from becoming poorer, young children from losing their education and widening the education gap, incomplete science being turned to restrictions on rights to freedom, education, work, while journalists are the ones who decide what we believe?

This is a pretty good description of the intent of taking climate change seriously, improving funding for rural and inner city education, and criminal justice reform.

 

[turkeyjerky]

This is a pretty good description of the intent of taking climate change seriously, improving funding for rural and inner city education, and criminal justice reform.

Nope, I'd prefer a 1% reduction in my taxes /s.

That Zdogg piece is pretty much identical to my views.

 

[roastedcapers]

I'll just throw it out there, if anyone is interested in collaborating in some way with others, DM me.

 

[Birdstrike]

...taking climate change seriously...

I never thought I'd miss the days of hyperbolic, eye-bulging panic over the world ending maybe/definitely/probably not in 12 years, due to whatever global warming/cooling/climate "change" scare happens to be in fashion. But I sure am glad to see it replace the lockdown-forever, "school is murder," "we'll all be dead in 2 weeks!" stuff.

 

[Birdstrike]

Are Lockdowns A Really Dumb Strategy?

And the answer is...

zdoggmd.com

COMMENTARY: My views on cloth face coverings for the public for preventing COVID-19

www.cidrap.umn.edu

COVID-19: Has the Mortality Rate Declined?

New data and an intriguing case example suggest the mortality rate may be decreasing. What does this mean for the days ahead?

www.psychiatrictimes.com

I'm just a psychiatric nurse practitioner, but have some friends in ER and avid follower of all things questioning the lock down and insane narratives in the news.

I understand that most physicians have good reasons not to speak out against lock downs as it could harm your career or get you in trouble. But what if you anonymous physicians on this forum got together with the other experts listed above, and whoever else is a voice of reason in this mess, and stood up for sanity, to save millions from starving to death in undeveloped countries or being deprived treatment for other diseases, to save the poor from becoming poorer, young children from losing their education and widening the education gap, incomplete science being turned to restrictions on rights to freedom, education, work, while journalists are the ones who decide what we believe?

E.g.:

Goldman Sachs | Insights - Face Masks and GDP

www.goldmansachs.com

.

produces 8 Google pages of headline articles in all various news outlets. THERE IS NO CONTROL FOR LOCKDOWN. I'm not an expert on epidemiology by any means, but this screams spin and the lack of questioning from any major news source is extremely concerning. Also, I suspect censorship from Google, because there is literally no search result that questions this article.

Lockdowns are lame.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Lockdowns are lame.

Did you see all the curves going down now? It's definitely due to masks and lockdowns. It has nothing to do at all with 20-25% of the population in many states already having been infected and recovered.

 

[roastedcapers]

Also of relevance to how this happened: Amazon product

 

[Birdstrike]

Did you see all the curves going down now? It's definitely due to masks and lockdowns. It has nothing to do at all with 20-25% of the population in many states already having been infected and recovered.

Yeah, lol. Remember “cases!” “Delay!” “Sunbelt!”?

Now that cases are going down in the sunbelt, where are the posts saying, “Good news: The drop in cases means deaths will be going down soon, due to the ‘delay’”?

Where are the post saying, “Wow, look. The sunbelt bent the curve with no destructive measures or lockdowns, and still has a deaths/capita much lower than the northeast states that did the opposite. I guess we were wrong”?

Where are the posts saying, “Looks like the economy is coming back quick, I guess we were wrong about that doom-gloom, prolonged Great Depression stuff”?

Instead it’s, “Hey, how about that ‘climate change’?” Lol

I guess it’s good to know the pandemic drama is over, or at least no longer of use to certain people.

 

[Nobutyesbutno]

Did you see all the curves going down now? It's definitely due to masks and lockdowns. It has nothing to do at all with 20-25% of the population in many states already having been infected and recovered.

It can't be a mixture of both. Obviously.

 

[Renaissance Man]

Yeah, lol. Remember “cases!” “Delay!” “Sunbelt!”?

This was exactly right. There was a delay in-between a spike in cases and then a spike in deaths.

It must feel good to predict that coronavirus would be "out of the news" in a week and then take a victory lap almost 6 months later when >1,000 Americans still died just yesterday from it.

 

[Siggy]

This was exactly right. There was a delay in-between a spike in cases and then a spike in deaths.

It must feel good to predict that coronavirus would be "out of the news" in a week and then take a victory lap almost 6 months later when >1,000 Americans still died just yesterday from it.

185K Americans (including Hermain Cain) hate Trump so much that they gave their lives to see him not win a second term. Don't you just see that this is politics? How do we know? 50k people have given into their hatred for Trump since July 1st... over 25% of the total deaths in the past 2 months alone. If people just didn't hate Trump, we would have no deaths and this would have gone away... like a miracle.

Also... remember... if you don't test, you can't have cases... so bars would be 100% safe... hospitals would be 100% safe and could allow visitors to return... and no one would die from Corona Virus at SNFs... because how could they die if you don't test?

 

[GeneralVeers]

It can't be a mixture of both. Obviously.

Correlation can be, but is not always causation.

In Nevada, we've had a mask mandate since early May when we began opening retail. The second spike hit us in July just after opening gyms, restaurants, and bars. There was no additional mask mandate, and the only thing that got shut down again was bars just after 4th of July weekend. We peaked around July 16th, and now cases are back down to where they were before bars were shut down. Cases continue to decline despite weekly increases in testing. This is with more things opening, like movie theaters. So in the case of Nevada, the decline does not coincide with either the lockdown or mask-wearing.

 

[alpinism]

For those following the COVID situation overseas Europe has been seeing a massive surge in cases this week after lifting their lockdowns last month.

Shouldn’t be surprising to anyone since we’ve known for a long time now that broad lockdowns have never been shown to stop virus transmission but instead act to flatten to curve for hospitals.

 

[GeneralVeers]

For those following the COVID situation overseas Europe has been seeing a massive surge in cases this week after lifting their lockdowns last month.

Shouldn’t be surprising to anyone since we’ve known for a long time now that broad lockdowns have never been shown to stop virus transmission but instead act to flatten to curve for hospitals.

Which was exactly the same pattern we saw here. This virus seems to follow more or less a similar curve regardless of measures.

I'm hoping we see case drop drastically by the end of September. Arizona is almost there.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Which was exactly the same pattern we saw here. This virus seems to follow more or less a similar curve regardless of measures.

I'm hoping we see case drop drastically by the end of September. Arizona is almost there.

I think either you or @Birdstrike mentioned this awhile back, but we're seeing crazy numbers at lots of colleges down here in the South and they may be the ones to push us over into enough recovered patients to cut transmission.

 

[Birdstrike]

For those following the COVID situation overseas Europe has been seeing a massive surge in cases this week after lifting their lockdowns last month.

Shouldn’t be surprising to anyone since we’ve known for a long time now that broad lockdowns have never been shown to stop virus transmission but instead act to flatten to curve for hospitals.

Virus is gonna virus.

 

[WilcoWorld]

Which was exactly the same pattern we saw here. This virus seems to follow more or less a similar curve regardless of measures.

I'm hoping we see case drop drastically by the end of September. Arizona is almost there.

I think either you or @Birdstrike mentioned this awhile back, but we're seeing crazy numbers at lots of colleges down here in the South and they may be the ones to push us over into enough recovered patients to cut transmission.

The fact is that without a coordinated approach, what we are testing is the placebo arm. If county #46 has a mask mandate while the rest of counties #42 to 50 do not, you can't conclude much about #46's intervention.

Thus, I'd argue that we're currently seeing the outcome of the placebo treatment.

 

[Birdstrike]

The sunbelt COVID spike ended without lockdowns and with a lower deaths per capita than the northeast with its strict and ongoing lockdowns.

 

[TwoHighways]

Can we take off the masks yet? How can “smart” people continue to ignore declining rates of new cases as well as the flatline NYC has experienced since they were taken to the woodshed months ago. Or the data from Sweden. This virus was going to run its course no matter what we did.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Can we take off the masks yet? How can “smart” people continue to ignore declining rates of new cases as well as the flatline NYC has experienced since they were taken to the woodshed months ago. Or the data from Sweden. This virus was going to run its course no matter what we did.

We need to keep our masks on until November 4th (possibly 2 weeks longer depending on the USPS) just to be safe.

 

[Nobutyesbutno]

Correlation can be, but is not always causation.

In Nevada, we've had a mask mandate since early May when we began opening retail. The second spike hit us in July just after opening gyms, restaurants, and bars. There was no additional mask mandate, and the only thing that got shut down again was bars just after 4th of July weekend. We peaked around July 16th, and now cases are back down to where they were before bars were shut down. Cases continue to decline despite weekly increases in testing. This is with more things opening, like movie theaters. So in the case of Nevada, the decline does not coincide with either the lockdown or mask-wearing.

View attachment 317164

Fair enough. You're best placed to interpret dispassionately what's likely to be cause and effect in your own area.

The debate about masks and lockdowns will continue but my own feeling at this point is that broad scale societal change is still potentially on the cards, especially if it pans out that we're eventually facing something like dengue...

We might be looking at a seasonal flu situation when this pans out in a few years... but I wouldn't bet the farm on it..

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

The fact is that without a coordinated approach, what we are testing is the placebo arm. If county #46 has a mask mandate while the rest of counties #42 to 50 do not, you can't conclude much about #46's intervention.

Thus, I'd argue that we're currently seeing the outcome of the placebo treatment.

I can't speak to everywhere, but here in SC the decline in cases started very shortly after pretty much every metro area and most large counties enacted mask mandates and the governor made his restaurant suggestions into requirements.

 

[Birdstrike]

I can't speak to everywhere, but here in SC the decline in cases started very shortly after pretty much every metro area and most large counties enacted mask mandates and the governor made his restaurant suggestions into requirements.

On the other hand, there are many South Carolina counties that didn’t pass mask mandates. I’m inclined to think masks do help at least some small amount, by virtue of common sense alone,

Compare NC and SC. NC was and still is much stricter with all viral measures and still has growing cases (Rt of 1.2, see Rt.live) whereas SC is past peak and Rt <1. I’m not sure that in the long run, these anti-viral measures as much non-psychological benefits as we’d like to think.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

On the other hand, there are many South Carolina counties that didn’t pass mask mandates. I’m inclined to think masks do help at least some small amount, by virtue of common sense alone,

Compare NC and SC. NC was and still is much stricter with all viral measures and still has growing cases (Rt of 1.2, see Rt.live) whereas SC is past peak and Rt <1. I’m not sure that in the long run, these anti-viral measures as much non-psychological benefits as we’d like to think.

Viruses spread more in cities than counties, and most of the larger counties passes ordinances anyway.

 

[Renaissance Man]

South Carolina has had ~117K cases and 2700 deaths from COVID-19 and North Carolina (a state with 5 million more people) only has ~164K cases and 2700 deaths...but sure Rt.

 

[thegenius]

South Carolina has had ~117K cases and 2700 deaths from COVID-19 and North Carolina (a state with 5 million more people) only has ~164K cases and 2700 deaths...but sure Rt.

These R naught numbers are so imprecise I place zero value on them whatsoever. Why they are even brought up is asinine. Difficult to calculate. We can't even accurately test people let alone calculate that number when 15-20% of the population has or had the virus.

Oh Rt of 1.5 vs 1.3. la---de-----dah!!!! call me when comparing R naught of 7 vs 2.

 

[GeneralVeers]

I'm looking at both of these posts, and my old ass can't figure out what either of you are saying.

I mean, I can understand the first one (and, I can tell that he is one is those people that likes the smell of their own farts, and that everyone else here is less than he is, because he strongly believes that he is morally better than everyone else), but, with "sure Rt.", then "R naught of 7 vs 2"?

What?

I'm also not smart enough for those numbers. I can see when a graph is going down though......

 

[deleted480308]

I'm looking at both of these posts, and my old ass can't figure out what either of you are saying.

I mean, I can understand the first one (and, I can tell that he is one is those people that likes the smell of their own farts, and that everyone else here is less than he is, because he strongly believes that he is morally better than everyone else), but, with "sure Rt.", then "R naught of 7 vs 2"?

What?

R value is an infection transmission rate

R 2 is every infected person is likely to pass it to 2 people, r 7 is likely to pass it to 7

 

[Nobutyesbutno]

I'm looking at both of these posts, and my old ass can't figure out what either of you are saying.

If you really want to understand anything on this thread.. you have to invest time and effort...

And by that I mean before logging on at a minimum you need to jack up and sniff glue...or drop acid...

 

[Birdstrike]

Is the CDC saying that only 6% of "COVID-19 deaths" were exclusively from COVID, as opposed to simply with COVID, but from other causes?



View attachment 316984

I posted this 4 days ago. It’s curious what certain people with jump on or ignore.

Recent release, CDC: Only 6% of “COVID-19 deaths” are from COVID alone. 94% have 2-3 other cause of death.

 

[Nobutyesbutno]

Apparantly y’all have given up. I guess I won and its time to declare victory.

I posted this 4 days ago. Those of you who seem to know everything about everything and don’t hesitate to share a thought about everything from COVID-climate change to farts and “morally superiority” are apparantly afraid to even give a first impression.


Recent release, CDC: Only 6% of “COVID-19 deaths” are from COVID alone. 94% are from other causes and COVID.

View attachment 317286

Seems kind of relevant!

Why suddenly so quiet, MENSA’s?

Yeah... I fully agree. Come on guys. Birdpoops life has been devoted to keeping this thread going for months... and now he's had to resort to quoting himself... he's on his knees here.. show some respect.

 

[Birdstrike]

“If it won’t allow us to keep the mass hysteria narrative going, we’ll just ignore it.”

 

[Nobutyesbutno]

“If it won’t allow us to keep the mass hysteria narrative going, we’ll just ignore it.”

Fools, " said I, "You do not know
Silence, like a cancer, grows
Hear my words that I might teach you
Take my arms that I might reach you"
But my words, like silent raindrops fell
And echoed in the wells, of silence

 

[turkeyjerky]

So, honest question for those of you who say "lockdowns don't work". (referring to broad government recommended or enforced measures in order to slow/stop viral transmission, generally widespread business and public space closures combined with stay-at-home orders). Do you mean:

1) Lockdowns do nothing to stop viral spread. The virus will spread through the community at the same rate regardless of any of these measures. These measures simply economic and psycho-social suffering without offering any benefit.

or

2) Lockdowns do slow viral transmission, however they do not do so effectively enough to completely stop transmission. We cannot 'lockdown' forever (or until an vaccination program is available), due to the immense economic and psycho-social of such measures, thus rendering these measures at best a delaying tactic.

 

[Birdstrike]

So, honest question for those of you who say "lockdowns don't work". (referring to broad government recommended or enforced measures in order to slow/stop viral transmission, generally widespread business and public space closures combined with stay-at-home orders). Do you mean:

1) Lockdowns do nothing to stop viral spread. The virus will spread through the community at the same rate regardless of any of these measures. These measures simply economic and psycho-social suffering without offering any benefit.

or

2) Lockdowns do slow viral transmission, however they do not do so effectively enough to completely stop transmission. We cannot 'lockdown' forever (or until an vaccination program is available), due to the immense economic and psycho-social of such measures, thus rendering these measures at best a delaying tactic.

#2

 

[deleted480308]

So, honest question for those of you who say "lockdowns don't work". (referring to broad government recommended or enforced measures in order to slow/stop viral transmission, generally widespread business and public space closures combined with stay-at-home orders). Do you mean:

1) Lockdowns do nothing to stop viral spread. The virus will spread through the community at the same rate regardless of any of these measures. These measures simply economic and psycho-social suffering without offering any benefit.

or

2) Lockdowns do slow viral transmission, however they do not do so effectively enough to completely stop transmission. We cannot 'lockdown' forever (or until an vaccination program is available), due to the immense economic and psycho-social of such measures, thus rendering these measures at best a delaying tactic.

#2, and govt shouldn’t have the power to quarantine healthy people

 

[Hamhock]

#2, and govt shouldn’t have the power to quarantine healthy people

Are you proposing that when a plane of American tourists exposed to Ebola in a departure airport terminal lands 12 hours later in your city -- that the government shouldn't have the power to quarantine these people?

Or are you only referring to sars-cov2?

HH

 

[deleted480308]

Are you proposing that when a plane of American tourists exposed to Ebola in a departure airport terminal lands 12 hours later in your city -- that the government shouldn't have the power to quarantine these people?

Or are you only referring to sars-cov2?

HH

Are you proposing a very specific group with a known exposure to a disease not known to be in their arrival area is the same as telling the entire state they cannot go to work for 6months? Because I don’t find that comparable

 

[Apollyon]

Great, useful, and extremely coherent post...I would expect nothing less from the person commenting that this pandemic was actually bioterrorism from China a few months ago. It is also quite telling that you move towards insults when you don't understand something; you fit right in.

If you really cared about these posts and weren't just being a d-bag:

Morally Superior, MD

The "insults" to you aren't because of your post right there. When you don't inject holier-than-thou into your posts, it is clear. I clearly understood your factual part. But, it seems clear - I mean, I think you actually believe the you ARE "the Renaissance Man", and everyone else are just the unwashed masses, a horde of brutish, uneducated barbarians, and not worthy of your privilege being shared with all of these others that are beneath you. I don't think you mean it ironically or sarcastically (like @thegenius or "Professor" Roy Bittan of the E Street Band (they called him "Professor" because he was the only one that had finished high school)).

And, actually, calling me a "d-bag" is the foul here; I'm not going to report you (because I'm a grown up and it just doesn't matter), but, as I've posted in the past, "on SDN, you can be an idiot, but someone else can't call you an idiot for acting like one".

Oh, and, I don't back down from my belief that the COVID-19 was from the Chinese government. That's what I thought now many months ago, and, just a little after that, the US govt did address the same issue, saying it wasn't. Beliefs can change with evolution of events. Well, at least, mine can.

 

[Birdstrike]

Are you proposing that when a plane of American tourists exposed to Ebola in a departure airport terminal lands 12 hours later in your city -- that the government shouldn't have the power to quarantine these people?

Or are you only referring to sars-cov2?

HH

I’m not sure how you compare Ebola, which has a fatality rate of 70+%, to SARS-COV-2 which is <1%.