How many withdrawals on a transcript are too many??

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ElizaThornberry

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Since I am getting my B.S. next month I finally sat down and looked at my transcripts. I was aware I had some withdrawals, but when I counted them up....it's more than what I remember. I have a total of 8 withdrawals on my transcripts and I am freaking out for good reason. These W's weren't just in the beginning of my college career.....my most recent one was last semester( spring 2020). I also have only done mostly a part time credit load and have a lower GPA (3.33). I think all of this combined will send out MAJOR red flags and I completely understand why. I don't really have an excuse for most of them and I know that a lot of courses I dropped because I was terrified of failing. I know I can handle difficult courses but my anxiety gets the better of me and sometimes I give up and take the easy way out.
Do any of you have experience with alot withdrawals on transcripts and applying to vet school?
Am I wasting my time considering vet school in the future? have i shot myself in the foot?
if not, What is the best way to prove I have learned from my mistakes and can handle challenges?
I appreciate any advice and criticisms and want 100% honesty because I have a feeling that my transcript issues are insurmountable.

:(:shrug:

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I had a friend who had 6 or more withdrawals was offered two interviews and one acceptance and she only applied to 5 schools. I have about 6 or 7 withdrawals and I just applied this cycle! If I get in anywhere, I will let you know!
 
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I had several Ws and Fs on my transcript and I had multiple acceptances. HOWEVER, they were almost a decade old and I performed really well in my recent coursework/prerequisites. I think it really depends on what the rest of your application looks like. Were you working a lot during those semesters? Volunteering or shadowing? I think if you have a lot of Ws and weren't really doing anything except school (and taking few credits each semester) that's a red flag. With a less than average GPA, the rest of your application needs to be strong and you need to be strategic about where you apply. So work on getting diverse experiences and cultivating relationships that will yield strong letters of recommendation. Be different, find something that makes you stand out. And if you're not accepted your first cycle, ask for file reviews to find our where you can improve.
 
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I'm probably not going to make any friends with this post, but I want to be real with you. Reading your OP, I have a number of concerns here.

Eight withdrawals is a lot. Are these all in science/pre-req courses? If so, then I feel like that's going to impact your application more negatively than if they weren't, especially because you indicated that these withdrawals are all littered throughout your undergraduate career, and not just at the beginning or during one particularly difficult semester/year.

A 3.3 cumulative GPA is definitely not the end of the world, particularly if you apply to schools which either do not look at cumulative GPA or weigh it less heavily than last 45 and science GPAs (ie. Iowa State, Kansas State). That said, you didn't tell us how your other GPAs look, which is going to make a huge difference as to whether or not you'll still be competitive. For instance, I personally had a 3.21 cumulative GPA when I applied and was accepted to 3/4 of the vet schools I applied to... the kicker, though? I had a 3.7 science GPA and nearly a 3.8 last 45 hours GPA. If all of your GPAs (cumulative, science, last 45 hours) are around or below that 3.3 figure, you're going to have a much more difficult time getting into vet school than if you had a very strong upward trend and/or did very well in the vet school pre-reqs. Again, we can't know exactly how badly your chances are going to be impacted without the full picture and all of your stats.

@EngrSC addressed this a little bit already in her post, so I'm won't be too much of a broken record here, but you mentioned that you've been going to school mostly part-time---were you also working full-time while you went to school? If not, this may lose you some points with certain schools, such as Mizzou and UTK, which do consider average courseload.

Full disclaimer, of course, that I'm not an adcomm, but simply based upon what's in this post---without knowing how your entire application, including veterinary/animal/work experience, looks---I don't know that I'd be convinced that you'd make it through a DVM program. As someone who also has had a pretty extensive mental health history, I can somewhat empathize with what you're dealing with... but I'm also not going to lie to you: vet school is difficult and exhausting, to the point that it often unmasks mental illness in those who may not have had those struggles prior. It is especially incredibly hard on those who already have a history of mental illness going into it. This isn't to say that you can't make it through with anxiety or depression or ADHD or another psychological condition---people have done so and you certainly can, too---but it is imperative that you have a solid treatment plan and adaquete support system in place, whether that be in the form of medication, therapy, lifestyle changes, or a combination of some or all of those things. If you do not, you may be signing yourself up for a lot of headache and heartbreak; once vet school gets going, it doesn't really ever let up, so by the time you are drowning and really need the help, if you don't already have something in place, it may be too late to be saved.

I've posted about this many times in the past, albeit not recently, so you may not have seen me talking about it, but I more or less failed (I didn't actually fail any courses, but my GPA fell below the minimum standard to remain in good standing) out of vet school in my second year. Nearly halfway through the program. My mental health state had deteriorated to the point that, although I'd force myself to study nearly every waking hour outside of school, I'd retain little to none of it. And it really, really showed on exams. I wound up on academic probation after first year and basically was told that I needed to get my **** together during the fall of second year or that I would be dismissed. I tried, I really did... but I didn't manage to pull it off, leaving me without an income (couldn't get the rest of my loans for that year, wasn't allowed to keep my student jobs at the school) and having to move back in with my parents for nearly two years. I just managed to snag a job that pays me well enough to actually live independently again.

I don't want this to happen to you. It's a horrible experience, and one that I could have avoided had I asked for help prior to the absolute precipice.

The reason why the number of withdrawals concerns me is that, in tandem with the bit about your struggles with anxiety, it has me worried that you start to consider withdrawing from courses once the going gets tough and you realize that you might do poorly in them. This is problematic for a couple of reasons. First, it tells me that you're not doing well in many of these courses to begin with and, as I mentioned above, if it's happening in science/pre-req courses, it's an especially bad sign because vet school is nothing more than hard science from 8-5 every single day. Second, you cannot withdraw from individual courses in vet school, with the possible exception to that rule being electives. At least with the core curriculum courses in vet school, it's all or nothing. If you withdraw or otherwise take a leave of absence, you effectively put yourself behind at least a year by default. If your only way to tread water academically is to withdraw from courses you're not doing well in, that will no longer be an option in vet school.

I know this sounds really bleak, but I think it might still salvagable if you can get your anxiety under control (if you haven't already done this) and possibly look into doing a masters or post-bacc program, if you are confident that you can do well, and it would certainly provide evidence to schools that you've overcome past struggles and can perform academically. Of course, utilizing the Explanation Statement on VMCAS is also certainly a great idea in this circumstance.

I kind of feel like asking "How many withdrawals on a transcript are too many?" is a fraught endeavor because it's so situational and the answer will depend upon a number of factors, such as the individual school(s) you're wanting to apply to, as well as what the rest of your stats and experience look like. Again, it's really difficult to fully analyze your particular situation without the details of your full application and everything you bring to the table, but, at least jumping off from what's in your post... I would agree that it's not the 3.3 cumulative GPA alone that is killing you. It's the combination of that and the sheer number of withdrawals. I commend you for pinning down your anxiety as a reason for past academic difficulties, but now the question becomes how do you intend/what have you done in the time since to address it so that you can succeed in vet school? What evidence can you provide adcomms to demonstrate that you can make it through the program?
 
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I had several Ws and Fs on my transcript and I had multiple acceptances. HOWEVER, they were almost a decade old and I performed really well in my recent coursework/prerequisites. I think it really depends on what the rest of your application looks like. Were you working a lot during those semesters? Volunteering or shadowing? I think if you have a lot of Ws and weren't really doing anything except school (and taking few credits each semester) that's a red flag. With a less than average GPA, the rest of your application needs to be strong and you need to be strategic about where you apply. So work on getting diverse experiences and cultivating relationships that will yield strong letters of recommendation. Be different, find something that makes you stand out. And if you're not accepted your first cycle, ask for file reviews to find our where you can improve.
I also have inconsistent work history but I have never worked full time....I can't really explain it with that because i would be a lie. I wasn't always doing something on the side and if I was it wasn't more than 20 ish hours a week.
 
I'm probably not going to make any friends with this post, but I want to be real with you. Reading your OP, I have a number of concerns here.

Eight withdrawls is a lot. Are these all in science/pre-req courses? If so, then I feel like that's going to impact your application more negatively than if they weren't, especially because you indicated that these withdrawals are all littered throughout your undergraduate career, and not just at the beginning or during one particularly difficult semester/year.

A 3.3 cumulative GPA is definitely not the end of the world, particularly if you apply to schools which either do not look at cumulative GPA or weigh it less heavily than last 45 and science GPAs (ie. Iowa State, Kansas State). That said, you didn't tell us how your other GPAs look, which is going to make a huge difference as to whether or not you'll still be competitive. For instance, I personally had a 3.21 cumulative GPA when I applied and was accepted to 3/4 of the vet schools I applied to... the kicker, though? I had a 3.7 science GPA and nearly a 3.8 last 45 hours GPA. If all of your GPAs (cumulative, science, last 45 hours) are at or around that 3.3 figure, you're going to have a much more difficult time getting into vet school than if you had a very strong upward trend and/or did very well in the vet school pre-reqs. Again, we can't know exactly how badly your chances are going to be impacted without the full picture and all of your stats.

@EngrSC addressed this a little bit already in her post, so I'm won't be too much of a broken record here, but you mentioned that you've been going to school mostly part-time---were you also working full-time while you went to school? If not, this may lose you some points with certain schools, such as Mizzou and UTK, which award points based upon average courseload.

Full disclaimer, of course, that I'm not an adcomm, but simply based upon what's in this post---without knowing how your entire application, including veterinary/animal/work experience, looks---I don't know that I'd be convinced that you'd make it through a DVM program. As someone who also has had a very severe mental health history, including generalized anxiety and bipolar II disorder, I can somewhat empathize with what you're dealing with... but I'm also not going to lie to you: vet school is difficult and exhausting, to the point that it often unmasks mental illness in those who may not have had those struggles prior. It is especially incredibly hard on those who already have a history of mental illness going into it. This isn't to say that you can't make it through with anxiety or depression or ADHD or another psychological condition---people have done so and you certainly can, too---but it is imperative that you have a solid treatment plan and adaquete support system in place, whether that be in the form of medication, therapy, lifestyle changes, or a combination of some or all of those things. If you do not, you may be signing yourself up for a lot of headache and heartbreak; once vet school gets going, it doesn't really ever let up, so by the time you are drowning and really need the help, if you don't already have something in place, it may be too late to be saved.

I've posted about this many times in the past, albeit not recently, so you may not have seen me talking about it, but I more or less failed (I didn't actually fail any courses, but my GPA fell below the minimum standard to remain in good standing) out of vet school in my second year. Nearly halfway through the program. My mental health state had deteriorated to the point that, although I'd force myself to study nearly every waking hour outside of school, I'd retain little to none of it. And it really, really showed on exams. I wound up on academic probation after first year and basically was told that I needed to get my **** together during the fall of second year or that I would be dismissed. I tried, I really did... but I didn't manage to pull it off, leaving me without an income (couldn't get the rest of my loans for that year, wasn't allowed to keep my student jobs at the school) and having to move back in with my parents for nearly two years. I just managed to snag a job that pays me well enough to actually live independently again.

I don't want this to happen to you. It's a horrible experience, and one that I could have avoided had I asked for help prior to the absolute precipice.

The reason why the number of withdrawals concerns me is that, in tandem with the bit about your struggles with anxiety, it has me worried that you start to consider withdrawing from courses once the going gets tough and you realize that you might do poorly in them. This is problematic for a couple of reasons. First, it tells me that you're not doing well in many of these courses to begin with and, as I mentioned above, if it's happening in science/pre-req courses, it's an especially bad sign because vet school is nothing more than hard science from 8-5 every single day. Second, you cannot withdraw from individual courses in vet school, with the possible exception to that rule being electives. At least with the core curriculum courses in vet school, it's all or nothing. If you withdraw or otherwise take a leave of absence, you effectively put yourself behind at least a year by default. If your only way to tread water academically is to withdraw from courses you're not doing well in, that will no longer be an option in vet school.

I know this sounds really bleak, but I think it might still salvagable if you can get your anxiety under control (if you haven't already done this) and retake any courses you obtained a C or lower in. Yes, a C is technically still considered to be "good enough" by vet schools for a pre-req grade, but it still drags your GPA down. Alternatively, you could look into doing a masters or post-bacc program, if you are confident that you can do well, and it would certainly provide evidence to schools that you've overcome past struggles and can perform academically. Of course, utilizing the Explanation Statement on VMCAS is also certainly a great idea in this circumstance.

I feel like asking "How many withdrawals on a transcript are too many?" is a fraught endeavor because it's so situational and the answer will depend a lot upon so many factors, such as the individual school(s) you're wanting to apply to, as well as what the rest of your stats and experience look like. Again, it's really difficult to fully analyze your particular situation without the details of your full application and everything you bring to the table, but, at least jumping off from what's in your post... I would agree that it's not the 3.3 cumulative GPA alone that is killing you. It's the combination of that and the sheer number of withdrawals. I commend you for pinning down your anxiety as a reason for past academic difficulties, but now the question becomes how do you intend/what have you done in the time since to address it so that you can succeed in vet school? What evidence can you provide adcomms to demonstrate that you can make it through the program?
I have a few science courses I withdrew from (physics, anatomy, and advanced cell bio) but I have also withdrawn from: history, economics, intermediate algebra, and an entry computer class...can't remember what it was called). If I only had a few withdrawals in the beginning of my college career I could definitely explain it by my lack of guidance and being lost as to what I wanted to do. I only entered college on my own accord (first generation) and had no plan (and only became interested in vet med a few years ago).
I wasn't ever working a ton on the side, it's usually been 15-25 hours a week if I had a job. I have roughly 1000 animal hours and barely any veterinary so I feel like work/volunteer history can't really explain all of my withdrawals.
I am not sure of my last 45 or science pre req.....I think my last 45 is similar to my cumulative and my science might be higher. I can handle tough courses, it's not that. I really just sike myself out and drop courses when I could have stayed in them and probably at least gotten a C. I have been dealing with alot of residual effects from my abusive childhood and generalized anxiety disorder is how my neurosis has manifested. My parents sucked and I was constantly blamed for things and berated and I still feel like a nuisance to everyone to this day and that I am simply a piece of trash. I won't get into anymore detail but I cut my "family" out of my life completely 5 years ago and never looked back.
And regarding the suggestion for a grad degree.....I am definitely pursuing that already. My interest is in zoonotic diseases and veterinary microbiology. I want to become a board certified veterinary microbiologist and one way of getting there is with an M.S./PHD background.
 
I was actually in the midst of typing up something similar to what Elkhart posted, but I don't feel there's any need to do that now - I couldn't say it any better.

But my background... I'm currently a first year non-traditional vet student. My first time through college, I actually ended up in treatment for PTSD due to a severe trauma. Combined with the social anxiety disorder and generalized anxiety disorder, I was a wreck, and I had a lot of withdrawals, too. I get it. I honestly do.

When I decided later in life that I wanted to go to vet school, I certainly had the option of just taking prereqs. I decided - for me, for my own peace of mind - to take academic fresh start and do another bachelor's. It wasn't so much to hide the withdrawals. I didn't need to hide grades, either - despite everything, I'd finished with a 3.86. But I wanted to make sure my mental health could withstand vet school rather than discovering the hard way that it couldn't.

So... I did another bachelor's, from scratch, biology this time. I worked a minimum of 30 hours per week (I'm older now, there are bills to pay) and still finished in 3 years, zero withdrawals, 4.0 GPA. I felt a lot more confident that I could handle vet school than I would have if I hadn't done that.

And you know what? It's still freaking HARD. The hardest part isn't even the academics. It's the constant, unrelenting pressure. It's having something or someone shake your confidence - sometimes in ways you wouldn't have expected - at every turn. It's the self-doubt that you're actually where you should be.

So I'm going to go with Elkhart here. Take some time to grow as a person. Get some experience in the field, because sometimes it's hard to remember why you do this. And then definitely go back - the master's is a great idea - and challenge yourself to just. not. quit. any class for any reason, because that's the situation you're going to be in, so you need to know how you respond when the option is gone.

I think a lot of people put a lot of thought and effort into getting IN to vet school. But it's probably even more important to look at what it's going to take to get back out.
 
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I was actually in the midst of typing up something similar to what Elkhart posted, but I don't feel there's any need to do that now - I couldn't say it any better.

But my background... I'm currently a first year non-traditional vet student. My first time through college, I actually ended up in treatment for PTSD due to a severe trauma. Combined with the social anxiety disorder and generalized anxiety disorder, I was a wreck, and I had a lot of withdrawals, too. I get it. I honestly do.

When I decided later in life that I wanted to go to vet school, I certainly had the option of just taking prereqs. I decided - for me, for my own peace of mind - to take academic fresh start and do another bachelor's. It wasn't so much to hide the withdrawals. I didn't need to hide grades, either - despite everything, I'd finished with a 3.86. But I wanted to make sure my mental health could withstand vet school rather than discovering the hard way that it couldn't.

So... I did another bachelor's, from scratch, biology this time. I worked a minimum of 30 hours per week (I'm older now, there are bills to pay) and still finished in 3 years, zero withdrawals, 4.0 GPA. I felt a lot more confident that I could handle vet school than I would have if I hadn't done that.

And you know what? It's still freaking HARD. The hardest part isn't even the academics. It's the constant, unrelenting pressure. It's having something or someone shake your confidence - sometimes in ways you wouldn't have expected - at every turn. It's the self-doubt that you're actually where you should be.

So I'm going to go with Elkhart here. Take some time to grow as a person. Get some experience in the field, because sometimes it's hard to remember why you do this. And then definitely go back - the master's is a great idea - and challenge yourself to just. not. quit. any class for any reason, because that's the situation you're going to be in, so you need to know how you respond when the option is gone.

I think a lot of people put a lot of thought and effort into getting IN to vet school. But it's probably even more important to look at what it's going to take to get back out.
First of all, I really appreciate your thoughtful reply. I have considered another Bachelor's but it is just not practical for me and the cost worries me. The classes I got C's in were courses required by my university for my Bio major and not pre reqs for vet school....funny enough they are lower level classes while I have A's in harder courses. The courses I withdrew from (besides physics) were electives I just wasn't interested in enough to stay in and risk my gpa. So I don't really see a point in retaking the "C" courses because I passed and I think I should focus on doing really well in grad courses. and retaking the "W" courses is pointless because I replaced the electives with other courses.
 
First of all, I really appreciate your thoughtful reply. I have considered another Bachelor's but it is just not practical for me and the cost worries me. The classes I got C's in were courses required by my university for my Bio major and not pre reqs for vet school....funny enough they are lower level classes while I have A's in harder courses. The courses I withdrew from (besides physics) were electives I just wasn't interested in enough to stay in and risk my gpa. So I don't really see a point in retaking the "C" courses because I passed and I think I should focus on doing really well in grad courses. and retaking the "W" courses is pointless because I replaced the electives with other courses.

Because your bachelor's is so recent and in biology (I was a lib arts double major), I wouldn't do it again, either. I think you're much better off doing a post-grad program.

I think the most important thing is to give yourself some opportunities to spend time in the profession, get some good support systems and coping mechanisms in place, and then see how it goes in grad school. You'll be in a much better position for vet school - both to get in and to succeed there.

I do wish you luck. It's certainly doable.
 
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Frankly, it sounds like you have a lot on your plate emotionally right now and that's not the best place to start vet school from if at all avoidable. Vet school is bad enough for those who don't struggle with mental health ailments; for those who have to slog through AND deal with things like depression, anxiety, etc...it can break you.

I like the idea of pursuing an alternative degree at this juncture. Maybe you find that you get your Masters in microbiology and a different career path presents itself and you're totally happy doing that. Maybe you still decide you want to go to vet school. Having more coursework under your belt where you can show adcoms that you aren't going to let tough science courses make you throw in the towel is key right now. Because like @Elkhart said, there is no withdrawing from vet school courses and if you fail, you may end up repeating a year (at your own expense) or being saddled with the vet school debt burden without the degree to go with it. It's not worth rushing your application with so many other factors in play.
 
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