How many years are you in undergrad, premeds?

[raptarious]

Was just curious about this. My uni posted statistics showing that 35% will be graduating in 4 years and 61% are graduating in 5. Pretty astonishing to me.

Is undergrad no longer a 4-year deal? How many years are you spending in undergrad, personally?

And for those who know, does the # of years you spend in undergrad affect your Med school application?

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[northernlights15]

4. I could graduate early but I gotta raise that GPA.

And to answer your question, it probably does affect it a little but if that's what's necessary to get a higher GPA, then by all means, one should take their time. GPA matters more than how many years one spent in undergrad. Nobody will care if you graduated undergrad in 3 years with a 3.2 GPA.

 

[justadream]

4 years still seems pretty standard to me.


1) Is your stat based on the percentage of people who are graduating or the percentage of people who simply start college?

2) Are you sure your stats aren't including the overlap between those graduating in 4 years vs. 5 years?

For example, your school might be saying that 61% of students graduate in 5 years (OR LESS). Thus, the 35% graduating in four years would be included in the 5 years number.

Also, if those percentages are based on the number of people who start at your college, your overall graduation rate would be really high (96%). Very few schools in the country (if any) have a graduation rate that high.

 

[Styrene]

A similar statistic at my school is that X% of graduates this year spent 5 years obtaining their degrees, and Y% of graduates spent four years.

Accordingly, I would interpret OP's stat is implying that 4% of students who graduate from college do so in less than four years or greater than 5 years.

4 years still seems pretty standard to me.


1) Is your stat based on the percentage of people who are graduating or the percentage of people who simply start college?

2) Are you sure your stats aren't including the overlap between those graduating in 4 years vs. 5 years?

For example, your school might be saying that 61% of students graduate in 5 years (OR LESS). Thus, the 35% graduating in four years would be included in the 5 years number.

Also, if those percentages are based on the number of people who start at your college, your overall graduation rate would be really high (96%). Very few schools in the country (if any) have a graduation rate that high.

 

[Holmwood]

90% of peeps at my undergrad do not graduate in 4 years. The average graduation rate for science majors is 6 years.

Keep in mind that SDN is hardly representative.

 

[Styrene]

I think the more competitive the university, the higher the proportion of students graduating in four years or less. For example, one of my friends at [insert competitive institution] graduated in 3.5 years, whereas I will take 4.5. I didn't take AP courses in high school--I don't think I even opened a book. I know some people that earned almost four semesters of college credit in high school.

 

[Hospitalized]

I will be graduating in four years of time. However, I will have 5 years of credits. I've gone during every summer, part time. I would have graduated a semester (or two) early if my school offered the beginning of science sequences at any time other than fall. But, such is life.

I'm going to have a lot more clinical and volunteer experience under my belt by the time I apply next year, and I will definitely be more mature. I look at how much I've grown in the past year and I don't doubt I'll be much more prepared for medical school come next cycle.

Edit: I'll also have a minor.

 

[jqueb29]

Took me 5. Got 2 degrees but came in with about a year's credits, so those balance each other out so the 5 is not biased either direction

 

[justadream]

I think the more competitive the university, the higher the proportion of students graduating in four years or less. For example, one of my friends at [insert competitive institution] graduated in 3.5 years, whereas I will take 4.5. I didn't take AP courses in high school--I don't think I even opened a book. I know some people that earned almost four semesters of college credit in high school.

Somewhat related: In general, top schools tend to have much higher graduation rates (e.g., 90%+). However, top schools also tend to be less friendly toward accepting AP credit. I think the high graduation rate it rooted more in the type of students who attend top schools (e.g., higher proportion of people who are super driven and won't drop out).

 

[Styrene]

Somewhat related: In general, top schools tend to have much higher graduation rates (e.g., 90%+). However, top schools also tend to be less friendly toward accepting AP credit. I think the high graduation rate it rooted more in the type of students who attend top schools (e.g., higher proportion of people who are super driven and won't drop out).

That is a good point. I went to a CC first, and the overall graduation rate was astonishingly low--something like 3% of all those who enroll full-time. Mind that it is the top community college in the Northeast and likely in the top 50 in the US in terms of rate of transfer to university.

 

[Spinach Dip]

5-ish.

Family problems, finances, health problems, etc, meant I had to take a couple of 'easier' terms. Still got my BS with double minor and a decent GPA.



I'm sure if I was at HYPS, I would have been pushed to graduate "on time".

 

[justadream]

5-ish.

Family problems, finances, health problems, etc, meant I had to take a couple of 'easier' terms. Still got my BS with double minor and a decent GPA.



I'm sure if I was at HYPS, I would have been pushed to graduate "on time".

You might feel some social pressure from your peers but I'm not sure if the institution itself would actively "push you". My (albeit limited) anecdotal experiences (from what I've heard people at those schools say) seem to suggest that oftentimes, HYPS are open to people taking extended leaves of absences* and supportive (even in terms of extending need-based financial aid) to those needing to stay a 5th year for the purposes of completing a major (esp if you choose late).

 

[Spinach Dip]

You might feel some social pressure from your peers but I'm not sure if the institution itself would actively "push you". My (albeit limited) anecdotal experiences (from what I've heard people at those schools say) seem to suggest that oftentimes, HYPS are open to people taking extended leaves of absences* and supportive (even in terms of extending need-based financial aid) to those needing to stay a 5th year for the purposes of completing a major (esp if you choose late).

Either way. Going to a no-name state school freed me of that pressure. (For the most part.)

 

[carpediem22]

4.5 years for me, but it's because I transferred halfway through. Could've done 4, but wanted to take my time to smell the roses.

 

[Glandzburg]

4 years here, but I don't think >4 years will really hurt you nor will <4 years help you (as long as you aren't padding your GPA by taking ridiculously light courseloads).

 

[The Real SVB]

You might feel some social pressure from your peers but I'm not sure if the institution itself would actively "push you". My (albeit limited) anecdotal experiences (from what I've heard people at those schools say) seem to suggest that oftentimes, HYPS are open to people taking extended leaves of absences* and supportive (even in terms of extending need-based financial aid) to those needing to stay a 5th year for the purposes of completing a major (esp if you choose late).

Taking time off for up to a full academic year is easy, but typically one cannot be enrolled for more than 8 academic semesters, including the intervening summers. Harvard and Yale enforce this very strictly but obviously provide support to make it happen for students.

 

[carpediem22]

Taking time off for up to a full academic year is easy, but typically one cannot be enrolled for more than 8 academic semesters, including the intervening summers. Harvard and Yale enforce this very strictly but obviously provide support to make it happen for students.

Mmmm I know plenty of Harvard/Yale people who graduate in additional semesters... taking a leave of absence is pretty easy to do if you have good reasons (or if you don't, lol). Students who take additional semesters to graduate usually either had personal reasons for doing so or special circumstances (transferring, medical reasons, etc.). It's pretty hard to not complete requirements on time though if you don't take time off. Double majoring is rare and somewhat discouraged.

 

[The Real SVB]

Mmmm I know plenty of Harvard/Yale people who graduate in additional semesters... taking a leave of absence is pretty easy to do if you have good reasons (or if you don't, lol). Students who take additional semesters to graduate usually either had personal reasons for doing so or special circumstances (transferring, medical reasons, etc.). It's pretty hard to not complete requirements on time though if you don't take time off. Double majoring is rare and somewhat discouraged.

They time take off but they cannot be enrolled students for more than 8 semesters and the corresponding summers. It was the same thing at my school.

 

[carpediem22]

"Cannot" is sometimes very flexible... but you'd never really have a reason to need more than 8 semesters anyway.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Justifying taking more than 4 years is alot easier when you are paying $18K a year at State U not $62K at Princeton.

It's been discussed at length in the past but bottom line is greater than 4 years won't hurt your application. After all, what exactly are post-bac's, particularly informal ones? They are just people doing more time at college level classes when we are talking about informal ones. Some people need to take more time to boost their GPA, whether you need to stay 5 years for your specific major(try telling engineers at some schools they have to graduate in 4 years otherwise it means they took the easy out) or just to boost your GPA it's not a negative.

Now, where taking more time hurts you is a) you need to take 5 years because you can't handle a full workload so do 10 semesters of 10 credits as opposed to 8 of 14-15 credits. And as a result you have really light schedules that don't prove you can handle a med school workload. b) you take 5 years because you have to retake a lot of classes .But if you are taking 15-18 credits a semester and doing a full workload with reasonable difficult classes, it's not going to be detrimental.

 

[The Helpful Aye Aye]

I did 4 then a postbacc immediately after. Then an SMP.

 

[GregP19]

I'll take 5. I go to a small school, and I've known people take 7 years to graduate with a mechanical engineering degree. Some people come in with a lot of merit scholarships and AP credit and leave in 2. But most take ~5. Everyone in this town works and goes to school, so it reduces their semester load. In terms of pre-med, I can see it as being a positive in the sense that you can spread out ECs over a longer time? The hour amount may not be as high, but it shows more commitment. I really don't know though, my two cents.

 

[carpediem22]

Justifying taking more than 4 years is alot easier when you are paying $18K a year at State U not $62K at Princeton.

It's been discussed at length in the past but bottom line is greater than 4 years won't hurt your application. After all, what exactly are post-bac's, particularly informal ones? They are just people doing more time at college level classes when we are talking about informal ones. Some people need to take more time to boost their GPA, whether you need to stay 5 years for your specific major(try telling engineers at some schools they have to graduate in 4 years otherwise it means they took the easy out) or just to boost your GPA it's not a negative.

Now, where taking more time hurts you is a) you need to take 5 years because you can't handle a full workload so do 10 semesters of 10 credits as opposed to 8 of 14-15 credits. And as a result you have really light schedules that don't prove you can handle a med school workload. b) you take 5 years because you have to retake a lot of classes .But if you are taking 15-18 credits a semester and doing a full workload with reasonable difficult classes, it's not going to be detrimental.

Most people at HYP are not paying $62K. Financial aid is extremely generous at these schools and all three have no-loan policies (all financial aid is given in grants).

Totally agree though that greater than 4 years does not hurt unless there is a red-flag reason behind it.

 

[moisne]

I think many people are taking 5 years now - for many reason - change in majors, struggling in academics, family/life crisis.

Given that, I was lucky and finished 2.5 years. But I took a few summer classes to do so.

 

[NeuResurgens]

I'm taking 4 years and then a gap year, due to my inability to take biochem before an April MCAT date. I wanted to take the class so that I could spend some time intensively getting to know the material in an organized setting, but I didn't have a lot of time to prep for it before April, and I also don't want to apply later in the cycle. When I realized a gap year was probable, I quickly came up with some ideas of things I could be doing during that year and it made me pretty excited, so this plan stuck.

 

[Lucca]

I am taking four years for two degrees thanks to AP credit + testing out of some things.

~50% of engineers at my school take 5 years.
Many, many people in one of my majors take a fifth year.

If one comes in with zero AP credit, only takes the courses required for one degree, never changes their mind about what they are studying, experiences zero setbacks and takes at least 15 credit hours or the equivalent every single semester then undergrad is easily a four year deal; perhaps even three or three-and-a-half with a summer course here and there. However, that is not the case for most students!

If I was studying something I found interesting for three years but then suddenly discovered something else that I was in love with or something with very specific requirements (a la medical school, often that is the discovery for many people) then I would need to take some extra time to make sure I could do what I need to do. There are just a lot of hazards with completing undergrad on time and as universities get larger (or more people go to larger schools, whatever you prefer) then curricula and classes need to adapt, often becoming more rigid and strict. I go to a large public school and while our CS program is very strong I have a couple of CS friends who will be sticking around for one more semester because they couldn't register for the classes they need to graduate! It might be easier to graduate on time at a small liberal arts college where the degrees might be more flexible and more universally available.

Another anecdote I have is of a close friend of mine who will be applying to PhD programs next spring. He came into undergrad as a business major, dropped out, took a year off and did something that made him realize he wanted to be a scientist and now he has research awards and scholarships and will probably do very well for himself. Others are lazy and have no real motivation for school and drag it out for lack of having a plan. Life happens!

 

[Ukpremed]

3 years for me.
I am getting two degrees, but I take 20 hours/semester and had 40 that transferred from high school.

 

[moemoekyun]

2.5, with AP, dual enrollment, and summer (working on campus, got financial aid) for degree and minor.
Wished I stayed in school longer, to keep my mind busy and off applying, get that upward gpa trend (been going up and down), take some interesting micro classes I learned about right when I graduated, do research in lab I was invited to but declined, take more time for ecs, have fun with friends, etc. Only plus to gap year is time to work on application, and more time to shadow/volunteer (where I went to school, super hard to get shadowing since everyone premed, where I live now, with no premeds, got into shadowing immediately, but took months with paperwork)
One kid I TA'd actually could have graduated in 1.5 yrs, and actually had interviews at some good state schools (mostly As, ~300 volunteer hospital hours, ~100 non clinical feeding the homeless and stuff, research for over a year in genetics lab with publication, 31 on MCAT, 10, 10, 11, tutor). He actually got accepted, but found research to be his true passion and is gonna be in grad school soon.
So I don't believe it's the time that matters, just what you make of it.

 

[DezziJo]

I completed my first year then took a year off to transfer. After transferring an entire semester worth of credits ended up not transferring since those classes were school specific . Soooooo now I will spend 4 and half years in undergrad, 5 and a half to even complete school. Bleh.

 

[deleted577188]

90% of peeps at my undergrad do not graduate in 4 years. The average graduation rate for science majors is 6 years.

Keep in mind that SDN is hardly representative.

90% of the people you attend school with do not graduate in 4 years? Unbelievable. (the kinda unbelievable as in I think you might be full of ****)

 

[Holmwood]

90% of the people you attend school with do not graduate in 4 years? Unbelievable. (the kinda unbelievable as in I think you might be full of ****)

http://media.collegeboard.com/digit...r-graduation-rates-for-four-year-colleges.pdf
It's more common than you think. Mine's in california. It's even worse for the science majors if you count attrition.

 

[deleted393595]

I'm sure if I was at HYPS, I would have been pushed to graduate "on time".

A major "push" factor being the outrageous tuition

 

[deleted577188]

http://media.collegeboard.com/digit...r-graduation-rates-for-four-year-colleges.pdf
It's more common than you think. Mine's in california. It's even worse for the science majors if you count attrition.

Wow. Well I'm surprised. You've proved me wrong. I should have done my research before I doubted you.

 

[The Real SVB]

90% of the people you attend school with do not graduate in 4 years? Unbelievable. (the kinda unbelievable as in I think you might be full of ****)

Don't underestimate the vast mediocrity of most of this country's students lol

 

[The Real SVB]

A major "push" factor being the outrageous tuition

Yeah, the sticker price that few pay except those who can comfortably afford to do so was a real concern for most people on campus.
We graduated on time because we had our **** together and were lucky enough to not have situations to force time off. Not much else to it

 

[allantois]

I'll graduate in 4, and I did not have a very hard course load at all. My school has ~20% 4 year graduation rate, but it is almost exclusively due to students themselves: not checking in with their adviser regularly, not understanding graduation requirements, or just not planning their classes very well. Another huge reason is that tuition is very cheap and most Floridians live in close proximity to a university, so they take classes just for the sake of learning rather than getting a degree. But this issue has been recently addressed with a cap of 132 credits one can take at a state university.

Transferring half way in also doesn't mix with timely graduation very well due to differences in degree requirements.

 

[justadream]

A major "push" factor being the outrageous tuition

This is a huge myth for HYPS (and M as well). You are underestimating the financial aid that HYPMS gives out each year.

I would go as far as to say that for the majority of people in the country (i.e., those making around 125k or less), HYPMS are probably the MOST affordable schools in the country* (yes, usually cheaper than state schools). *(only exception being full-ride merit scholarships but even still, HYPMS need-based aid often comes close)

If you make 100-125k (with normal assets) you basically pay only room and board (in other words, tuition is essentially free). If you make around 65k or less, you essentially go there for free (except some small work-study amount).

Now if your family makes 200k, then yes, HYPS is kind of expensive. But your family also makes a lot more money than the majority of people in the country so theoretically you should be able to afford a greater portion. However, I do see how families who are in the 180k-300k range might feel most "screwed" since they don't really get need-based FA but 65k/year is still a lot.

And if you are going to HYPMS with a sibling, expect even better FA than what I just listed above.

The tier of schools just below HYPMS (e.g., Penn, Columbia, Dartmouth) have financial aid that is similar to the level of HYPMS (but expect to pay maybe 5-10k more per year). Even still, they are still quite affordable if you really are in financial need.

 

[deleted577188]

Don't underestimate the vast mediocrity of most of this country's students lol

I guess you're right lol.

 

[carpediem22]

This is a huge myth for HYPS (and M as well). You are underestimating the financial aid that HYPMS gives out each year.

I would go as far as to say that for the majority of people in the country (i.e., those making around 125k or less), HYPMS are probably the MOST affordable schools in the country* (yes, usually cheaper than state schools). *(only exception being full-ride merit scholarships but even still, HYPMS need-based aid often comes close)

If you make 100-125k (with normal assets) you basically pay only room and board (in other words, tuition is essentially free). If you make around 65k or less, you essentially go there for free (except some small work-study amount).

Now if your family makes 200k, then yes, HYPS is kind of expensive. But your family also makes a lot more money than the majority of people in the country so theoretically you should be able to afford a greater portion. However, I do see how families who are in the 180k-300k range might feel most "screwed" since they don't really get need-based FA but 65k/year is still a lot.

And if you are going to HYPMS with a sibling, expect even better FA than what I just listed above.

The tier of schools just below HYPMS (e.g., Penn, Columbia, Dartmouth) have financial aid that is similar to the level of HYPMS (but expect to pay maybe 5-10k more per year). Even still, they are still quite affordable if you really are in financial need.

Exactly. The only people paying full tuition are those who come from extreme wealth. Otherwise, expect financial aid packages that are twice as good as any other school, zero percent of which you have to pay back. The only downside is that the student contribution amount rises each year.

 

[Flashfan]

I am doing it in 4 but had to give up a minor and many extra biology classes because they interfered with the class times for my major. I go to a very small school and with the exception of intro labs, classes are only offered once. Most are only offered only during fall or spring. Still, it made me take general ed courses that were outside my comfort zone and I feel I am a more well-rounded person. Still, I really wish I had been able to take physiology without first taking cell and genetics.

 

[philosonista]

Six.

The caveat being I will be graduating with two completely unrelated degrees from two different universities at the same time.

It's been a weird ride.

 

[Holmwood]

Wow. Well I'm surprised. You've proved me wrong. I should have done my research before I doubted you.

No worries. I was equally shocked when my adviser told me the same thing.
It probably has more to do with cuts to faculty, increased waitlisting, and the fact that tuition is getting more and more pricy across the board (which means working alot to fund for it and less classes).

 

[deleted393595]

This is a huge myth for HYPS (and M as well). You are underestimating the financial aid that HYPMS gives out each year.

I would go as far as to say that for the majority of people in the country (i.e., those making around 125k or less), HYPMS are probably the MOST affordable schools in the country* (yes, usually cheaper than state schools). *(only exception being full-ride merit scholarships but even still, HYPMS need-based aid often comes close)

If you make 100-125k (with normal assets) you basically pay only room and board (in other words, tuition is essentially free). If you make around 65k or less, you essentially go there for free (except some small work-study amount).

Now if your family makes 200k, then yes, HYPS is kind of expensive. But your family also makes a lot more money than the majority of people in the country so theoretically you should be able to afford a greater portion. However, I do see how families who are in the 180k-300k range might feel most "screwed" since they don't really get need-based FA but 65k/year is still a lot.

And if you are going to HYPMS with a sibling, expect even better FA than what I just listed above.

The tier of schools just below HYPMS (e.g., Penn, Columbia, Dartmouth) have financial aid that is similar to the level of HYPMS (but expect to pay maybe 5-10k more per year). Even still, they are still quite affordable if you really are in financial need.

Exactly. The only people paying full tuition are those who come from extreme wealth. Otherwise, expect financial aid packages that are twice as good as any other school, zero percent of which you have to pay back. The only downside is that the student contribution amount rises each year.

So financial aid doesn't get cut off after 4 years?

Don't underestimate the vast mediocrity of most of this country's students lol

Some students are lazy and take the scenic route, but there are other students who are: 1) Working their way through college 2) Taking difficult degrees like engineering that require 5 years 3) Have to stop school due to personal/family issues

 

[The Real SVB]

So financial aid doesn't get cut off after 4 years?

If the school lets you stay, aid is guaranteed. As I said though, there's a difference between actually enrolling for more than 8 semesters and taking time off between semesters.

 

[justadream]

So financial aid doesn't get cut off after 4 years?



Some students are lazy and take the scenic route, but there are other students who are: 1) Working their way through college 2) Taking difficult degrees like engineering that require 5 years 3) Have to stop school due to personal/family issues

I don't know about each specific school but I wouldn't be surprised if they worked something out with you if you had special circumstances. I highly doubt Harvard would force someone who is at poverty level to pay 60k after 4 years.

It might take some prior planning to graduate in 4 years but 85%+ of students at these schools graduate in 4 years. So it's not that big of a problem for most people.

Overall, the point is that if you get into HYPMS, money should rarely be a negative determining factor in your decision about whether to matriculate (it will be neutral or positive).

 

[deleted393595]

If the school lets you stay, aid is guaranteed. As I said though, there's a difference between actually enrolling for more than 8 semesters and taking time off between semesters.

I don't know about each specific school but I wouldn't be surprised if they worked something out with you if you had special circumstances. I highly doubt Harvard would force someone who is at poverty level to pay 60k after 4 years.

It might take some prior planning to graduate in 4 years but 85%+ of students at these schools graduate in 4 years. So it's not that big of a problem for most people.

Overall, the point is that if you get into HYPMS, money should rarely be a negative determining factor in your decision about whether to matriculate (it will be neutral or positive).

My experience is purely anecdotal, but a friend of mine at HYPMS got denied by high-level admin within the counseling dept from exploring a certain combination of scholarship areas. On the other hand, that has not been the case for me at my state school with the exact same degree plan. If HYPMS admin is so inflexible over such a minor issue, I wonder if they would let kids stay back a 5th year with financial aid.

 

[The Real SVB]

My experience is purely anecdotal, but a friend of mine at HYPMS got denied by high-level admin within the counseling dept from exploring a certain combination of scholarship areas. On the other hand, that has not been the case for me at my state school with the exact same degree plan. If HYPMS admin is so inflexible over such a minor issue, I wonder if they would let kids stay back a 5th year with financial aid.

Scholarship is not financial aid. Again, if the school even lets the kid stay on for more than 8 semesters, there will be aid. Unsure if the less endowed top tiers can afford this, though, but HYPMS do.

 

[deleted393595]

Scholarship is not financial aid. Again, if the school even lets the kid stay on for more than 8 semesters, there will be aid. Unsure if the less endowed top tiers can afford this, though, but HYPMS do.

I should have made it clearer. Scholarship areas = majors

 

[The Real SVB]

I should have made it clearer. Scholarship areas = majors

Departments are weird at different places. Financial aid is top notch though

 

[Crassostrea virginica]

.