How Much Do You Make?

[O Gaúcho]

I know all military salaries are public information available on the internet. But I thought it would be informative/fun to see how much you dentists that are working right now make. Everyone might be different based on location and time of service/rank.
I was talking with some friends about the value of the HPSP and new grads in private practice would be lucky to make 120k-14ok. Most at that 120k or lower. Whereas with the HPSP I think we start at around 85k-95k based on location. So it really isn't too different right?

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[annieb985]

Don't know how accurate this video is but it can't be too far off since it's legit from Army Medicine. Military dentist might make less on paper then their civilian counterparts, but there are a lot of hidden benefits. Biggest would be not having to pay back school loans- which could be astronomical depending on which school. I think people also tend to overlook that as a military dentist you're not paying for malpractice insurance, health insurance (for all your immediate family), get housing allowance (additional cost of living allowance depending on location), and substinance allowance. Also, in the Army if you specialize you still get paid at your normal active duty rate for going to school. I'm not saying you're going to be rich as a military dentist, but life will be comfortable. Being prior service and knowing that I'm going back on active duty simply excites me because I get to be a part of something bigger than myself and serving my country is an honor.

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[LFA20]

I know all military salaries are public information available on the internet. But I thought it would be informative/fun to see how much you dentists that are working right now make. Everyone might be different based on location and time of service/rank.
I was talking with some friends about the value of the HPSP and new grads in private practice would be lucky to make 120k-14ok. Most at that 120k or lower. Whereas with the HPSP I think we start at around 85k-95k based on location. So it really isn't too different right?

Remember that in the military only your base pay and bonus pay are taxable.

 

[ysrebob]

$85-95k starting out sounds right. As best I could tell, it was about equivalent to making $120k civilian, neglecting the retirement benefits.
- free liability insurance is not a big deal
- partially tax-free income is a fairly big deal
- free health coverage is a very very big deal
If you add in HPSP tuition payments, you really can't help but come out ahead.

As a former AF dentist, now civilian, I would add that it was not till I got out of the service that I realized how huge the military retirement benefits are. Despite pulling down multiples of my military salary in private practice, I have actually have less spending money now than I did as an O-3. Self-funding retirement (and health insurance, and self employment taxes, and etc) takes a shockingly large bite out of your take-home. Would likely have been better off in dollar terms staying mil. Hindsight.

 

[distressstudent]

I made calculations for myself to compare to civilian salary, and I projected that I would needed to earn a first year salary of 115k to match the first year salary of a military dentist. That's only included things I can put a cash value to like health insurance, tax saving on BAH/BAS, and being exempt from state-income tax if you station out of your SLR (this one is huge for me since I would likely practice in california and their state income is really high up there).

115k is taxed to be $79,500

66k taxed by california is 50k. 53k left over if you take out state tax. Then 23k from BAH (20k avg)+ BAS (3k). So that's 76k + other insurance you won't have to pay.

The pension I calculate to be worth about annual 45k post-tax income if you can make it to 20 years on the old retirement plan. Maybe a little more since you cant safely withdraw at an early age without taking a big tax hit

 

[schmoob]

I made calculations for myself to compare to civilian salary, and I projected that I would needed to earn a first year salary of 115k to match the first year salary of a military dentist. That's only included things I can put a cash value to like health insurance, tax saving on BAH/BAS, and being exempt from state-income tax if you station out of your SLR (this one is huge for me since I would likely practice in california and their state income is really high up there).

115k is taxed to be $79,500

66k taxed by california is 50k. 53k left over if you take out state tax. Then 23k from BAH (20k avg)+ BAS (3k). So that's 76k + other insurance you won't have to pay.

The pension I calculate to be worth about annual 45k post-tax income if you can make it to 20 years on the old retirement plan. Maybe a little more since you cant safely withdraw at an early age without taking a big tax hit

There are a lot more factors to consider. BAH in places like San Diego are much higher than Lejuenne. And health insurance for a family costs more than a $3500 annual premium. Also take into consideration the financial benefits of the GI Bill. Even if you decide to get out after your 4 years and go into, let's say, a civilian OMS program, you would be able to collect BAH (MHA) on top of your hospital stipend.
Also, can you clarify what you mean by withdrawing your 20 year pension early and taking a hit? I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

 

[distressstudent]

There are a lot more factors to consider. BAH in places like San Diego are much higher than Lejuenne. And health insurance for a family costs more than a $3500 annual premium. Also take into consideration the financial benefits of the GI Bill. Even if you decide to get out after your 4 years and go into, let's say, a civilian OMS program, you would be able to collect BAH (MHA) on top of your hospital stipend.
Also, can you clarify what you mean by withdrawing your 20 year pension early and taking a hit? I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

Right, health insurance is crazy. I was just using those numbers for my own personal situation. After all, with a family you get even more BAH (woohoo) and in that case the military salary might even exceed most first year grads.

About that last comment was more about how if I wanted to retire after 20 years of dentistry, I would need to take eat the early withdrawal penalty from my IRA. Where as if I retired after 20 years in the military, I can mainly rely more on the pension and not on my IRA. Of course that's not a concern for most dentist since they won't end their career in 20 years.

 

[schmoob]

Right, health insurance is crazy. I was just using those numbers for my own personal situation. After all, with a family you get even more BAH (woohoo) and in that case the military salary might even exceed most first year grads.

About that last comment was more about how if I wanted to retire after 20 years of dentistry, I would need to take eat the early withdrawal penalty from my IRA. Where as if I retired after 20 years in the military, I can mainly rely more on the pension and not on my IRA. Of course that's not a concern for most dentist since they won't end their career in 20 years.

Gotcha. 20 years of AD provides 50% of base pay, so it's really not much. It's definitely an awesome supplement, but likely not nearly enough to live off of.
Oh and keep in mind that although you do make more in BAH with dependents, those earning single BAH who have no families will always have more money than you

 

[vellnueve]

It would be like 4500/month as an O5 at 20 before taxes which isn’t a ton but isn’t bad either. Especially since most will go on to a second career.

The healthcare benefits are something to consider as well.

 

[Incis0r]

Gotcha. 20 years of AD provides 50% of base pay, so it's really not much.

40% now due to the changes to the retirement plan. However, it now incorporates TSP matching + a mid-career bonus I believe. Can also take the retirement as a lump sum + reduced annuity.

 

[vellnueve]

40% now due to the changes to the retirement plan. However, it now incorporates TSP matching + a mid-career bonus I believe. Can also take the retirement as a lump sum + reduced annuity.

There’s no mid-career bonus offered that isn’t offered to those of us on the old plan. Those are simply retention bonuses for re-upping once you don’t owe any more time.

 

[ysrebob]

As a civilian self-employed, my health insurance for a healthy family of three runs about $12000/yr. That’s with starting a group health plan for our office this year — on the individual market the premium for our family would have been over $20k for 2018. This is for a plan with a $12K deductible... so basically no coverage at all except in case of catastrophe. If you have a family, even a healthy family, Tricare is a BIG hidden part of a military officer’s compensation.

Also, re the $45k/yr value of a traditional mil retirement contribution — keep in mind that to save $45k/yr as a civilian will take a lot more than that in pretax income... you won’t be able to shield all 45k from taxes.

I now make 3 or 4x what I did as an O3, and it may be exaggerating to say I don’t have ANY more spending money now then then, but I sure don’t have much more. Not and save enough to retire in that same 20yr total frame. The military retirement, health care, and tax benefits are pretty huge.

In the same way that predents blithely underestimate the true weight of $500k student loans (not accounting for compounding interest and payback in after-tax dollars) until they start loan payback, it’s easy to underestimate the value of mil benefits vs nominally much higher civilian earnings. I have certainly been very surprised.

 

[ysrebob]

(...PS in fairness, should add a hidden cost of mil service tho: PCSes make it darn near impossible for your civ spouse to grow their own career to full potential.)

 

[deleted696582]

I'm a bit confused on special pays according to some military websites since I'm not sure how they view the HPSP obligation.

Which special pays are tacked on to the standard O3 pay for a dentist fresh out of school? Is it VSP and ASP only?

 

[vellnueve]

Those pays are obselete. You get $20K per year in incentive pay. If you remain a general dentist, after your commitment is up you are eligible for $25K/yr in retention bonus if you sign a new 4 year commitment (on top of the 20K).

 

[LFA20]

Those pays are obselete. You get $20K per year in incentive pay. If you remain a general dentist, after your commitment is up you are eligible for $25K/yr in retention bonus if you sign a new 4 year commitment (on top of the 20K).

When do we start collecting the IP?

 

[vellnueve]

90 days after graduation if you’re licensed