How often do you think about dropping out?

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For me it's thinking about how many years I'm spending in a desk chair memorizing things that I truly don't need to know, instead of spending that time enjoying however many revolutions around the sun the universe gives me. I don't expect to drop out, the thoughts aren't oppressive or overly serious, but they happen a lot. It's good to know others feel the same which is why I made the thread.
 
A lot of complaints in this thread here seem to be about work politics and/or something that is applicable to almost any high functioning career there is. I hope everyone finds the strength to do what's best for them.
 
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curious- Do the ones who complain about MS and truly hate it go into MS for the wrong reasons?
Or are they just not used to time management and didn't work before?

Are those the only two possibilities you could come up with?


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I think more about a tropical vacation to a warm island in the middle of nowhere surrounded by dozens of bikini clad models. This image has gotten me through the past 3 years when I am stressed out of my mind.
 
Everyday I was in the gross anatomy lab 1st year.
 
A lot of complaints in this thread here seem to be about work politics and/or applicable to almost any high functioning career there is. I hope everyone finds the strength to do what's best for them.

Wouldn't disagree with you - much of the complaints of medicine are just as applicable to any other "high powered" career. There are nuances that make it somewhat different, and while I do think it's important to keep a broader perspective on things and realize that things really aren't that bad, it doesn't necessarily make the struggle any less severe or lessen the impact.
 
Did you actually enjoy those previous careers though? If you could see yourself doing that for 40-50 years, why quit? Somehow you had to think that medicine was a better deal overall. Doesn't make sense otherwise.

Some of them yes, others no. I hated most of the research I did (all non-clinical), and there's no way I would consider doing that as a career. I actually enjoyed the landscaping job a lot, but physical labor like that isn't something I could feasibly see myself doing as I aged or being able to maintain a comfortable retirement. I also enjoyed being an EMT a lot, but given the pay, the work hours/inconsistency, and the long-term physical demand, it's another career that I don't think I could do for 40-50 years. None of the other jobs I had were ones that I felt I could reasonably make a career out of unless I dumped a ton of time into it and was willing to make just okay money doing. I wasn't passionate enough about any of them to really consider them to be anything other than a job.

Medicine just kind of hits all the sweet spots for me in terms of what I want out of a career (being able to help people in a significant way, job and financial security, passion about the foundational knowledge, autonomy, and flexibility in career path) and the big negatives are things I can tolerate. So sure, there were other options that I could have chosen, but I did believe that medicine would be a better overall deal for me. I'll also add that I had more experience with several aspects of medicine (clinical, research, and administrative) than most applicants have, so also had some idea about what I was getting myself into when I applied.

The more I progress in med school, the more I've learned that the goal of the system is to churn out mindless drones who do nothing but medicine, and suck up hard to The Man (administrators, nurses, etc). Independent thought is quashed.

I'd say that's pretty accurate for first 2 years, but I've found the complete opposite to be true with my rotations. Every rotation I've been on I've had in depth discussions with my attendings about what the different opportunities in their field are as well as how they deal with the administrative BS. None of them seemed like cogs or like they were sucking up to "The Man". I even had the pleasure of seeing one of them tell off and administrator in front of Joint Commission when they came, which was an interesting experience in itself. I'll admit, I haven't rotated through a large academic center yet, so I can't say anything about what the culture there would be like. From personal experience though, none of the attendings and physicians I have worked with are close to mindless drones.
 
Same here. Med school is so much easier when your body is taken care of first and foremost.

Yup, I made it a mission to go to the gym 3 to 4 times and week and run about 2-3 miles min for each session along with 30-60 mins of weight lifting, core strengthening, and yoga. Oh, yeah. Get a massage every 2-3 weeks to relieve those neck tensions too. It has made a huge difference in life. I'm starting to regain my mofo. Things are starting to come easy again.
 
I'd say that's pretty accurate for first 2 years, but I've found the complete opposite to be true with my rotations. Every rotation I've been on I've had in depth discussions with my attendings about what the different opportunities in their field are as well as how they deal with the administrative BS. None of them seemed like cogs or like they were sucking up to "The Man". I even had the pleasure of seeing one of them tell off and administrator in front of Joint Commission when they came, which was an interesting experience in itself. I'll admit, I haven't rotated through a large academic center yet, so I can't say anything about what the culture there would be like. From personal experience though, none of the attendings and physicians I have worked with are close to mindless drones.
Never seen anything like this except for one attending. Most of my attendings are downtrodden, overworked, and actively avoid talking to students. They just seem uncomfortable all the time.
 
Never seen anything like this except for one attending. Most of my attendings are downtrodden, overworked, and actively avoid talking to students. They just seem uncomfortable all the time.

No offense, but glad I'm not doing rotations where you're at. All of my attendings have been mostly enthusiastic about what they do and have gone out of their way to have teaching moments and ensure we're learning about the field, both clinically and the various ways to practice in the field. I'm sure I'll encounter some less than stellar attendings eventually, but so far I've had a pretty great experience with them.
 
Gotta say, when you get an email informing you that you failed an exam, the thought does cross my mind. I jump to stupid conclusions and then decide I'm not smart enough so I should drop out. Viscious circle
 
Never from an honest standpoint. There may be days I do kick myself and think "why did I get myself into this?" but then it's not like I'd seriously ever would drop it.
 
Think of med school like a cylindrical shaped pile of ****. More time you spend in med school, the deeper you get into pile of **** and hence less likely you would want to go back up to the surface. At that point, you would just want to push through!

Of course, you do fantasize daily if you could go back in time
 
Yup, I made it a mission to go to the gym 3 to 4 times and week and run about 2-3 miles min for each session along with 30-60 mins of weight lifting, core strengthening, and yoga. Oh, yeah. Get a massage every 2-3 weeks to relieve those neck tensions too. It has made a huge difference in life. I'm starting to regain my mofo. Things are starting to come easy again.

Massages sound like a great idea. I'll definitely start doing that around exam time. We have 8 exams per exam week. We have 6 exam weeks total this year.

I feel well-balanced. I'm struggling right now because we are a heavy block, but I go to the gym every day, have a 1hr lunch with friends each day, and study for 8-9hrs. I go out about 3 times/wk. Sex life is fine, but dating is meh because of the time commitment.

Most of my non-med school friends work 8hrs. Go home and sit around/watch tv. Then gao out once, maybe twice, per week. I'm pretty on par with them

That sounds super balanced. I wouldn't be able to go out 3x a week though. 2 max!
 
Every so often it crosses my mind briefly. Sometimes I wonder how life would be if I hadn't attended med school. Never considered it seriously.
 
Never crossed my mind. I'm currently MS-3. I worked in another career before going into medicine. I busted my ass the past three years and have enjoyed most of it. Sure, there are some days where I wish could have a little more sleep or spend less time worrying about the future, but I think part of the worrying comes from the excitement of what the future holds. I genuinely enjoy medicine and I'm glad I found this career. I would still feel the same way (mostly) if compensation was cut by 50% tomorrow. As for the "sucking up", it happens no matter what field you're in, because even if you own a business, your customers are still your bosses.

Many of the med students who feel like the RNs, PAs & other hospital staff are out trying to get them are probably projecting. Just be a normal, decent human being and show that you're there to help the entire team succeed. If you're in the OR, help the staff prepare for surgery instead of standing around and being awkward. Once the nurses/techs love you, even if you screw up here and there, they will help you learn from those mistakes instead of just calling you out. Be proactive when you're learning and show some interest. Hold your head up when you're walking and say hi to nurses/techs in the halls. Introduce yourself to everyone, including attendings, that you will be working with. Voluntarily read up on patient management algorithms after rounds and informally present to resident(s) on the articles you've read. They will appreciate the gesture if you don't come off as a pompous jerk, because you just helped them look good in front of the attending. These gestures are not used to "suck up" but instead used to display elements of professionalism and team-oriented attitude. The old adage of treating others like how you'd be treated goes a long way into making each rotation, even the ones you have no interest in, pleasant.
 
Never crossed my mind. I'm currently MS-3. I worked in another career before going into medicine. I busted my ass the past three years and have enjoyed most of it. Sure, there are some days where I wish could have a little more sleep or spend less time worrying about the future, but I think part of the worrying comes from the excitement of what the future holds. I genuinely enjoy medicine and I'm glad I found this career. I would still feel the same way (mostly) if compensation was cut by 50% tomorrow. As for the "sucking up", it happens no matter what field you're in, because even if you own a business, your customers are still your bosses.

Many of the med students who feel like the RNs, PAs & other hospital staff are out trying to get them are probably projecting. Just be a normal, decent human being and show that you're there to help the entire team succeed. If you're in the OR, help the staff prepare for surgery instead of standing around and being awkward. Once the nurses/techs love you, even if you screw up here and there, they will help you learn from those mistakes instead of just calling you out. Be proactive when you're learning and show some interest. Hold your head up when you're walking and say hi to nurses/techs in the halls. Introduce yourself to everyone, including attendings, that you will be working with. Voluntarily read up on patient management algorithms after rounds and informally present to resident(s) on the articles you've read. They will appreciate the gesture if you don't come off as a pompous jerk, because you just helped them look good in front of the attending. These gestures are not used to "suck up" but instead used to display elements of professionalism and team-oriented attitude. The old adage of treating others like how you'd be treated goes a long way into making each rotation, even the ones you have no interest in, pleasant.

No, you wouldn't feel the same way. Come on now...

I do agree with you that being a team player is a critical factor into wowing your attendings and acing that audition.
 
curious- Do the ones who complain about MS and truly hate it go into MS for the wrong reasons?
Or are they just not used to time management and didn't work before?

There's a lot of reasons to hate medical school, even for those of us that love it.

Ex: Any human being that enjoyed anatomy lab should be on a terrorist watch list.
 
Uncle Sam will pay for it if you promise to pay him back.

Nah, the taxpayers will pay for me with all the debt forgiveness programs out there. I'm just only taking my fair cut bc I will be contributing a good portion of my future paycheck to that payment pie.

It's time to max out all debts. Any action resembling financial prudence is a deal for suckers.
 
Nah, the taxpayers will pay for me with all the debt forgiveness programs out there. I'm just only taking my fair cut bc I will be contributing a good portion of my future paycheck to that payment pie.

It's time to max out all debts. Any action resembling financial prudence is a deal for suckers.

Actually if you do income based repayment, the amount forgiven is taxable unless you are insolvent. Any debt forgiven past solvency is not taxable. So maxing out all your debt and minimizing assets right before your debt is forgiven is not a bad idea!
 
Actually if you do income based repayment, the amount forgiven is taxable unless you are insolvent. Any debt forgiven past solvency is not taxable. So maxing out all your debt and minimizing assets right before your debt is forgiven is not a bad idea!

LOL. On a serious note, if you are insolvent as a practicing physician, you need some financial counseling.

Assuming the PAYE plan w/ loan forgiveness in 20 years, I calculate that even with the tax bomb the interest rate rate for my total loan would be around 2.2% annually, which is an awesome deal. I haven't taken debt degradation due to inflation and income inflation into my calculation.

If I account those factors into my calculation, the real interest rate is probably less than 1%.
 
Love this. Ive been a nurse for 6 years working full-time while finishing bachelor's/taking pre-reqs/raising kids. Absolutely cannot wait now to be able to focus on school (and my family).

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I don't mean to sound too pessimistic, but your focus is going to be in the order you presented them. Your focus will be entirely on school, even when you're with your family. The kids will want to play and you will constantly have to tell them no because you have to study. Your spouse will want to go on dates and you'll have to say no because you have to study.

They will develop a resentment towards you to one degree or another. The kids may not if they are young enough, but your spouse will; even if they claim to support you fully. You'll resent them for resenting you. "Why can't they see you're doing what's best for everyone?" You'll feel guilty every day for not spending enough time with them. Furthermore, your stress at work and your stress in school are going to be totally different. A rough day on the job ends after the shift. There is not a giant anvil hanging over your head every single day. In medical school, you have pressure every day of your life to succeed during the next test. If you fail, your dreams are shattered. You've gone into 20k/40k/120k/250k in debt and you simply cannot quit or fail. Getting into medical school gave you just enough rope to hang yourself with. It's already around your neck and you're already walking the plank.

I went into this thing with the rose colored glasses too. I enjoy school and I'm very excited by my future, but the life is different and so is the stress.
 
The more I progress in med school, the more I've learned that the goal of the system is to churn out mindless drones who do nothing but medicine, and suck up hard to The Man (administrators, nurses, etc). Independent thought is quashed.

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CC: @NickNaylor

This has become increasingly apparent to me this semester as everyone sucks up everything that is presented to them without ever questioning any of it.
 
Actually if you do income based repayment, the amount forgiven is taxable unless you are insolvent. Any debt forgiven past solvency is not taxable. So maxing out all your debt and minimizing assets right before your debt is forgiven is not a bad idea!
Except for the fact that that would require you to have no assets just over a decade before retirement. They can go after your house, 401k, and other assets- it isn't like regular bankruptcy insolvency when you owe money to the IRS.
 
I don't mean to sound too pessimistic, but your focus is going to be in the order you presented them. Your focus will be entirely on school, even when you're with your family. The kids will want to play and you will constantly have to tell them no because you have to study. Your spouse will want to go on dates and you'll have to say no because you have to study.

They will develop a resentment towards you to one degree or another. The kids may not if they are young enough, but your spouse will; even if they claim to support you fully. You'll resent them for resenting you. "Why can't they see you're doing what's best for everyone?" You'll feel guilty every day for not spending enough time with them. Furthermore, your stress at work and your stress in school are going to be totally different. A rough day on the job ends after the shift. There is not a giant anvil hanging over your head every single day. In medical school, you have pressure every day of your life to succeed during the next test. If you fail, your dreams are shattered. You've gone into 20k/40k/120k/250k in debt and you simply cannot quit or fail. Getting into medical school gave you just enough rope to hang yourself with. It's already around your neck and you're already walking the plank.

I went into this thing with the rose colored glasses too. I enjoy school and I'm very excited by my future, but the life is different and so is the stress.
I never had to give up my family, friends, or relationship in medical school. Sure, it dinged my board scores a bit, but I did alright overall and would hardly say anyone has developed any resentment toward me because of school. You have to prioritize your life- I put those I care about at the top of my list and medical school second. I'd rather be a happy psychiatrist with a good relationship with my loved ones than a miserable dermatologist that has destroyed their personal life in the quest for their career.
 
Uncle Sam will pay for it if you promise to pay him back.

Lol I already take out full loans and barely have enough to cover my cost of living without massages.
 
I never had to give up my family, friends, or relationship in medical school. Sure, it dinged my board scores a bit, but I did alright overall and would hardly say anyone has developed any resentment toward me because of school. You have to prioritize your life- I put those I care about at the top of my list and medical school second. I'd rather be a happy psychiatrist with a good relationship with my loved ones than a miserable dermatologist that has destroyed their personal life in the quest for their career.

Perhaps I shouldn't have described the situation as a certainty. There are exceptions to every rule and I'm glad it worked out for you.

Did you enter medical school with the expectations of only "doing okay," having "dinged board scores" and becoming a psychiatrist? If so, that may have a lot to do with your current outlook. Having appropriate expectations is going to be key for married medical students and I just wanted to make sure FCMike doesn't go in with too rosy of an outlook. It was probably a little venting on my part as well.
 
Perhaps I shouldn't have described the situation as a certainty. There are exceptions to every rule and I'm glad it worked out for you.

Did you enter medical school with the expectations of only "doing okay," having "dinged board scores" and becoming a psychiatrist? If so, that may have a lot to do with your current outlook. Having appropriate expectations is going to be key for married medical students and I just wanted to make sure FCMike doesn't go in with too rosy of an outlook. It was probably a little venting on my part as well.
I was always pretty set on psych, IM, FM, or anesthesia. I've got the scores for any of them (my scores aren't bad, they're just very average- I could've gotten well above the average if I put in more work), but narrowed it down to psych vs IM in third year. Never had any interest in any of the other fields in medicine. I mean, if you're willing to sacrifice your family on the altar of your career I guess that's your choice, but sometimes people need to accept that they can't have it all and priorities must be established. Family is forever and a job is a job is how I see it I guess.
 
I was always pretty set on psych, IM, FM, or anesthesia. I've got the scores for any of them (my scores aren't bad, they're just very average- I could've gotten well above the average if I put in more work), but narrowed it down to psych vs IM in third year. Never had any interest in any of the other fields in medicine. I mean, if you're willing to sacrifice your family on the altar of your career I guess that's your choice, but sometimes people need to accept that they can't have it all and priorities must be established. Family is forever and a job is a job is how I see it I guess.

Why the drinking in med school? You seem to have a good head on your shoulder.
 
Why the drinking in med school? You seem to have a good head on your shoulder.
I like to go out or spend time with friends a couple times a week, because I view a social life as an important part of being emotionally healthy. Unfortunately, I suffer from some degree of social anxiety so alcohol helps me chill out and be more sociable. I've got the classic introvert problem of "I love people but whenever I am around them I feel anxious as all hell" where I need social interaction but it's also distressing at the same time. Alcohol helps me enjoy social situations without feeling that need to just gtfo and be on my own. But going out and drinking with people a couple nights a week has it's price, both in time (it's a good 12-16 hours you can't get back) and energy (you cut your sleep short, and hangovers aren't exactly conducive to a productive study weekend).
 
I was always pretty set on psych, IM, FM, or anesthesia. I've got the scores for any of them (my scores aren't bad, they're just very average- I could've gotten well above the average if I put in more work), but narrowed it down to psych vs IM in third year. Never had any interest in any of the other fields in medicine. I mean, if you're willing to sacrifice your family on the altar of your career I guess that's your choice, but sometimes people need to accept that they can't have it all and priorities must be established. Family is forever and a job is a job is how I see it I guess.

I'm actually leaning towards psych and FM as well, maybe even one of the combined programs. I'm still fairly hard on myself and worry a great deal about each test. I want to get honors on all of them and kick myself a bit when I don't. I also feel behind the curve. Daily. As a non-trad I feel like I should be much further along than I am and I'm reminded of it every time one of these super successful "kids" introduce themselves as "I'm so-and-so. Studied undergrad at MIT. One interesting thing about me? Well, on my 37th trip to Haiti I saved 12 children from an earthquake, but that's not as interesting as my research curing cancer."

Of course I'm exaggerating and I certainly understand rationally and consciously that everyone's path is different and not to compare myself to others, but it still requires a pause and reflection sometimes to re-convince myself. I think that this probably occurs with most non-trads to some degree or another. Unless, they are incredibly gifted to the point where they hardly need to study AND they have average expectations AND will be okay with being average.
 
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I'm actually leaning towards psych and FM as well, maybe even one of the combined programs. I'm still fairly hard on myself and worry a great deal about each test.
1st test = oh damn, I studied the hardest that I have ever studied in my entire life. I think I had failed that exam. 82% on the exam
2nd test = that was a much hardest test ever. 85% on the exam
3rd test = that wasn't a bad test. There were a bunch of things that I have guessed on the exam. I think I have at least a 80% on the exam. 97% on the exam
... Trust the method. You got this.

I still have the test anxiety before every test. However, I know for a fact that I belong at this level now.

"I'm so-and-so. Studied undergrad at MIT. One interesting thing about me? Well, on my 37th trip to Haiti I saved 12 children from an earthquake, but that's not as interesting as my research curing cancer."
Sound like a blowhard who is trying too hard to impress people. It is usually the people that my name is so... so... and I am just normal in every aspects of life who are usually just amazing people behind closed doors. These people tend to commit a lot of details from their lives unless you get to know them better and hear their stories.

Of course I'm exaggerating and I certainly understand rationally and consciously that everyone's path is different and not to compare myself to others, but it still requires a pause and reflection sometimes to reconvene myself. I think that this probably occurs with most non-trads to some degree or another. Unless, they are incredibly gifted to the point where they hardly need to study AND they have average expectations AND will be okay with being average.

Average is good. If you are better than 50% of your classmates, chances are that you have a chance to do any specialty out there with the exception of the top 3-5 specialties out there.
 
The nihilistic approach of " Nothing really matters anyway. " was never stronger than since I entered the Medical field. It's the only anchor that keeps me on my path often times, because there are way too many issues to be bothered by otherwise.

Some people don't have many interests besides Medicine - they say they do, but they don't.
It's good for them, because they are the ones who can truly focus on Medicine day and night, whether it's morning or evening, Monday or weekend - they simply don't mind.
But for all the persons out there like me, who have a lot of interests besides Medicine ( not because we would like to choose a different career, but simply because we are passionate about many other things, and the time is not enough in a lifetime to pursue all of them, I don't care what you think ) , it is essential for us to adopt a mindset that makes us let go and be more Zen about life, so having a bit of a nihilistic approach toward things doesn't hurt, because it allows you to not take yourself so seriously, not take your thoughts so seriously, completely eliminate every distraction that comes in your way and simply focus on learning that Histology, because those hours you could spend doing something else don't matter at all, time and space are illusions, so even thought you think you'd be happier surfing in Hawaii, that simply doesn't matter, you're just as well studying Histology here, because nothing's such a big drama in life anyway.

If you think the above text is strange, just lighten up - Get your head in the game : life is strange.
You'll discover great ways to handle difficulties if you dare to be strange, to think outside of the box.

You know when kids are saying all those weird things and everyone finds them adorable and clever ?
It's kinda ironic that people criticize you for the same thing when you're an adult.
This is why you don't have to seek for approval - just cultivate the thoughts that work best for you.
As long as it's effective, it doesn't matter if it's insane.

Thank you for posting, I actually have the same sediment as I am truly a OCD type that likes to dissect every detail. Sometimes it's hard for me to accept this but when I do my stress levels go way down.
 
1st test = oh damn, I studied the hardest that I have ever studied in my entire life. I think I had failed that exam. 82% on the exam
2nd test = that was a much hardest test ever. 85% on the exam
3rd test = that wasn't a bad test. There were a bunch of things that I have guessed on the exam. I think I have at least a 80% on the exam. 97% on the exam
... Trust the method. You got this.

Do you have one exam at the end of each "block" or smaller exams spread out throughout the semester?

You're right. I've done well despite the difficulties, but it's tougher than I imagined it would be and I'd caution anyone entering this beast with rose colored glasses on.
 
Do you have one exam at the end of each "block" or smaller exams spread out throughout the semester?

You're right. I've done well despite the difficulties, but it's tougher than I imagined it would be and I'd caution anyone entering this beast with rose colored glasses on.

I have about a 100-110 quest exam every two weeks. Sometimes, before a big break, I have another 3-4 exams on top of that.
 
I have about a 100-110 quest exam every two weeks. Sometimes, before a big break, I have another 3-4 exams on top of that.

Test schedule makes a big difference, in my opinion. We have block exams. They're 200 to 300 questions long every 5-6 weeks. Coming in I thought I might like it better than weekly or biweekly tests, but I'm not sure that's the case. By test time it's been 5 weeks or more since covering some topics, which makes it hard to retain that info.
 
Honestly never thought about dropping out once. Its hard as hell sometimes, thats for sure, but overall its been nice, and I'm grateful to be in this position.
 
I'm hating school right now. It's boring and the lectures can be horrible. But I feel like most jobs/tasks can be boring and slightly horrible. Hopefully one day it will be more interesting with less mandatory garbage that doesn't teach us anything. Also one day we'll get money.
#optimism
 
Test schedule makes a big difference, in my opinion. We have block exams. They're 200 to 300 questions long every 5-6 weeks. Coming in I thought I might like it better than weekly or biweekly tests, but I'm not sure that's the case. By test time it's been 5 weeks or more since covering some topics, which makes it hard to retain that info.

There's issues either way. I'm at a school that had at least 1 test every 2-3 weeks. Second semester of second year we had 19 tests in 4 months. While not having as much material on one test was nice, I also think it made burnout a lot more real. At least with a 5 week block you can take 2-3 days 'off' at the beginning and still catch up. With a test every week or so, if you take a day or 2 off you're either pulling 12-14 hour study days until the next exam or you're screwed. Just try and keep trucking and know that it does (eventually) get better.
 
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