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superchris147 said:
superchris147,
It's a crime to democrats. This is a political thing.
How the hell do you produce 1.5 MILLION a year???
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superchris147,
It's a crime to democrats. This is a political thing.
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Ha! Amen to that! That's the funniest thing I've heard on here in a long time.Happy2th said:
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can anyone tell me what does a hygienist make? (median, not the mean)
if they drive the practices so much, why don't they fight to have "their own" solo practices and set their own fees? (hopefully this will never happen
if they drive the practices so much, why don't they fight to have "their own" solo practices and set their own fees? (hopefully this will never happen
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simpledoc said:can anyone tell me what does a hygienist make? (median, not the mean)
if they drive the practices so much, why don't they fight to have "their own" solo practices and set their own fees? (hopefully this will never happen
Have you not seen this tread that has been on of the hot topics of the past couple of weeks.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=238436
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simpledoc said:
Seriously?
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TucsonDDS said:
Please save room for me. Oh, and make sure there's room for 99% of the dental school students out there. It seems 99% also want nice cars. Thanks in advance.
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I would bet that by the time our illustrious friend finishes his many, many years of hard work, he'll have changed his political views. Until then, I grovel at your feet, a_student. You have everything figured out. We can all only hope to someday be as enlightened as you. However, I think several ounces of weed might speed the process along...Happy2th said:
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this thread is awesome. Now I want to be a dentist. Not so much for the money, but the lifestyle. 4 days a week?! Gravy...
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Medicine has big problems:a_student said:
It isn't all about money, it is about responsibility. When you give something for free, you're saying it isn't worth !@#$. I love the indigent who live unitelligently and expect someone else to front the ENTIRE responsibility of that stupidity. The liberals think they are heros but really they share at least 50% of the blame for the problem.
Case point: Parents getting drunk on New Years eve. 2 month old baby in car seat getting bit by 2 year old sibbling. Parents "got no money". Refuse a payment plan of even 20 dollars a month from the hospital. Liberal pediatrician says "kids can't suffer for the decisions of the parents". Yet he continues to punish the kid by not making the parents responsible for anything! Two months later, kid in ED with hypothermia cause parents left him in the car while they were getting tanked in the bar for 5 hours. Liberals say, "what is wrong with the system that people are like this?" Thus the cycle continues: liberals and idiots carrying this country down, down, down the toilet. Liberals put responsiblity on the "system" or "big business" or someother ridiculous excuse. In the end, where is the responsibility to be held? Until the parents are delt with, this kid will always suffer.
Lawyers trolling around in pursuit of money, not justice. Not interested in justice or responsibility but in wrinkles that would trap the responsible or those with money. They are more than happy to sue a doctor because he didn't run 50 thousand tests costing thousands of dollars that wouldn't have affected outcome, when no one is really paying for it anyways. People don't deserve any better care than they are willing to do their part. Don't smoke for 50 years, not excercise, treat your body like crap and expect me to give it the Beverly Hills treatment. You can't put a Rolls Royce engine in a rusted out jalopy. It just isn't responsible. Don't cry that you want someone to survive in the trauma bay when you didn't care enough to buckle the carseat, not drink, and not neglect your love one.
Money is the easier arguement but it is a small representation of the bigger issue... RESPONSIBILITY/ACCOUNTABILITY!!
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I couldn't have said that better--I'm in 100% agreement.esclavo said:
A couple weeks ago, I got called to the PICU to evaluate profuse bleeding. A little 6 YO girl had been ejected from the car during a 60MPH collision. The four adults in the car didn't have a scratch on them, but somehow, this little girl ended up with several spleen and liver lacs which necessitated an emergency lap in the PICU--she wasn't even stable enough to go to the OR. To top it off, she had a large stellate laceration/maceration from the lateral aspect of her nose to her EAM and up into the temporal fossae. Her ZMC was smashed and she was bleeding heavily from her superficial temporal, posterior auricular, and infraorbital arteries. After about a half hour of a$$-puckering clamping and tying, I was able to get the bleeding stopped. After packing/wrapping the head, and after trauma dressed the open lap incision, they allowed the parents to see her, as no one expected her to survive the night. The father had the gall to ask me if plastic surgery was going to be able to be involved because he was concerned about the future scar on her face. Through some act of God I didn't choke him to death. It sometimes amazes me that these idiots can figure out how to breed...
Afterwards, I was thinking about the lifetime of guilt that they would have to experience, over not putting her in a seatbelt, but then I realized that this won't happen. I have no doubt in my mind that they'll look at it as some unfortunate situation that they had no control over at all. No responsibility...just some freak accident that couldn't be avoided...
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drhobie7 said:
Unless u r one of the super rich (John Kerry) with your army of intelligent tax people who find all the loopholes for you, then you get to keep all ur money.
EyeAmCommi said:
Please tell me how! ......Oh I see what you're saying. If I'm super rich I can find loopholes to let me keep all my $$. Yeah, there's a lot of money in dentistry but not that much. I remember hearing that the top 1% of all people (in terms of income) pay 95% of the total tax revenues. I think they still contribute their share even with the tax shelters.
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drhobie7 said:
But yea you're probably right. I was just doing some good ole democrat bashing for that one post
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OMFSCardsFan said:
No, it wouldn't be a feek accident, it would be the incompetence of the hospital. that is why they would be entitled to sue your ass for a couple of million dollars because you couldn't save their daughter. After all if you could just do your f'ing job their little girl would be ok, RIght??? Who are we to tell them to use seatbelts?????
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TucsonDDS said:
i wasn't going to write anymore on this thread, but this one just made my blood boil,
are you f'king kidding me?
this kid DESERVES to have a huge scar on her face because the parents forgot to put a seatbelt on? oh better yet, the parents should suffer their whole lives thinking what if they hadn't forgotten to put the seatbelt on, the scar would never be there? you gotta be f'king kidding me, damn i sure hope ppl like you would never go into medicine, and hope the admissions officials would be able to cross you off if you try.
wow your post really angers me, for gods sake how the f'ck could they expect a plastic surgeon to fix their babies wound, so she wouldn't have a scar for the rest of her life. GODDAMN!
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Geez. I think he was making an attempt at sarcasm.a_student said:
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a_student said:
You are going to make such a good doctor. You are such a good hearted soul. Just wait until you actually start taking care of some of the peice of sh1t patients that will be coming through the door. People today expect everything in healthcare for nothing. People expect their percocet for free after getting shot in the ass during a gang shooting or at a drug bust. They complain that they can't afford $20 worth of pain medicine as they are playing their playstations and talking on their cell phones while eating taco bell and McD's instead of the free hospital food. People expect their doctors to be at their becken call and that is where you are going to be my friend. I hope that you are able to keep your attitude to save the world but I can pretty much guarentee that you will become just as jaded as the other 99.9 percent of doctors out there treating some of these peices of crap patients.
Would I deny care to kids that have no help but to have crappy parents, of coarse not. Should the parents actually take a part in actually raising their kids and start taking some responsibility, you are damn right. I have taken care of poor little kids actively dieing after their f'ked up family beat the crap out of them, let them fall out of the back of a truck at 60mph, ran them over on purpose or feed them a bottle of nifedipine. All the time the parents that weren't in jail were there at the bedside saying "Isn't there something that you can do." I have also taken care of kids receiving bone marrow transplants after their parents basically dropped them off and planned to pick them up in 2 months. One little boy I took care of on and off for about 4 years during relapse after relapse and finally death. Two days before this amazing little boy died the F'king C*nt of a mom shows up, whaling in the hall and cussing us all out because we killed her baby. This was probably the 4th or 5th time that I had ever seen her and up until then I didn't even know that he had a dad. There were more hospital employees at his funeral than family members or maybe we actually were his family. Two patients of mine (both with amazing families, all non-citizens of the US) were flower girls in my wedding and when one of them died after here 5 year fight with neuroblastoma her family asked my wife and I to sit in the front row of her funeral. So please don't tell me that I am a heartless assh0le.
You my friend have a great deal of growing up to do in the real world. Wait until you get a chance to see some of the people that you will be enableing (um, I mean "helping") if you ever are able to become a physician. And by the way, during my interviews I talked extensively about what I thought was wrong with medicine today and why I would never want to enter it. One of my interviewers told me that her two children were both in med school and said that they are becoming just as cinical as I am. And you know what happened, they accepted me, maybe because I am not just some little idealistic pre-med that has had everything handed to him by his mommy and daddy.
Just remember that kids deserve respect but their families have to earn it.
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You really are a *****. I was commenting on the fact that this little girl was on the verge of dying (she had already received 16 units of blood), split open from pelvis to sternum with her abdomen filled with packing to control her liver and spleen bleeds. Despite all of this, the dad was just concerned about what kind of scar she would have. You two rival each other with your stupidity. Secondly, I guess you assume that an Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery resident is less qualified than a Plastics/Reconstructive resident to cosmetically repair a traumatic injury to the face. I'm not even going to go into this one, because anyone who knows anything about the two specialties knows that either are qualified.a_student said:
You seem to think that I was talking about teaching the family a lesson or something by leaving a huge scar on the girl's face--not the case. That little girl was meticulously put back together five days later when she was stable enough to go to the OR. My point was this: if my parents forgot to buckle me in, and I was injured, they would feel guilty about it for the rest of their lives. If this little girl ends up having full brain function, it will be a miracle. I was speculating, yes speculating, that her parents wouldn't feel guilty about it, as they damn well should. Because of their stupidity, they deserve to feel guilty about it and spend the rest of their lives making it up to her. Unfortunately, the attitude that I got when speaking to them was that they view this as some freak accident that couldn't be avoided. Let me be the first to tell you, dumbf*ck, it could have been--with the click of a seatbelt.
I wish I could be there to see it when you see a patient with uncontrolled diabetes, in the ER for the fourth time this month in DKA, complaining about having to have another triple lumen placed. The less responsibility these patients take in their own care, the more they bitch and moan and blame everyone else but themselves. You still have this vision of medicine as a glorious, shining light that everyone bows down to. Good luck, you will need it.
What year are you in now?
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OMFSCardsFan said:
i'm not going to reply to the insults,
but just to let you know i'm an MS3 and have seen my share of ppl who make mistakes, but what really makes me cringe are the attendings at private hospitals who start acting as though ppl w/o insurance are subhuman as soon as they find out their insurance status, not those who come in w/ DKA
a_student said:
You just don't get it. Enjoy toiling away with your naive views and remember to vote for Hillary or your favorite democratic politician, together you can help keep the least of our society irresponsible, dependent and sick.
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This has GOT to be a female.a_student said:
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Keep the debate coming, but leave the obscenities & personal attacks at home, please.
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But...I am at home.aphistis said:
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There doesn't seem to be any disagreement about the weirdness and irresponsibility of the patients that comes into the ER. I've never met such patients but it sure makes me wonder why they would act that way. In a way, most people from lower socioeconomic class has more struggles to deal with - sociologically, psychologically and all. I think humans are all ignorant, me included, and it is just to what degree we are ignorant to. The kid who flew out of the car and have scars on the face, I put the blame on the parents. The parents are responsible no matter what. The kid is an innocent victim, and it sucks that it happened.
jk5177 said:
The point is about personal responsibility for adults. I'm hardly angry at kids or even at the idiot parents, my dislike is saved for the politicians who demagogue that people have to choose between food and medical care because they can't afford both. All that demagoguery and political spin adds up overtime and wears down personal responsibility on poor, uneducated people. Saving money for HC coverage and taking responsibility is hard when you're poor, imagine compounding that problem with the politicians and media telling you essentially "don't even try it because you can't afford it unless you give up food."
Well, I'm not here to save the world. I'm out of this thread. My lady is coming by, time to get my groove on.
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a_student said:
You are confused. Dentists are not earning 1.5 million per year. They are grossing that. When they subtract expenses which is 60-80% of their practice, their actual net salary is much less. Dentists often speak in terms of what they produce or gross which is why you are misled to think they are netting 1.5 million. Yes, there are dentists who do net those types of salaries too but they are rare of the celebrity type. The ones on this forum who are grossing 1.5 million are earning 525,000 (65% expenses). That's a lot of money but it's not well over a million dollars like you are assuming.
I don't know where you got that you will earn less than 200K as a pediatric cardiologist unless you are going into academic medicine. The averages on salary surversy are misleading. They don't distinguish between private practice/ academic and HMO physicians. I have a friend who just graduated from UT Southwestern in Dallas from their peds cardiology program and he got an offer to start at 300K in Dallas with a large group. When he makes partner, he will net a little over 600K.
It's not uncommon for adult cardiologists to earn over a 1 millon dollars NET per year which in dentist terms is like producing 2-3 million per year. And these aren't even interventionalists. That's a true 1 million net, not 1 million gross.
Most physicians that join large private practice groups in any field are earning between 200-500K net per year. Physicians aren't going hungry. They are well paid as are dentists.
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MS3...I wish I knew how much experience you had before I said anything. Gosh, I wish I could take it back. You definitely have spent enough time in medicine to have all the angles covered. Given your views, you may want to look into emigrating to Sweden or another socialist country. Although, I'm just not sure what our country would do without level-headed "thinkers" like yourself.a_student said:
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a_student said:
another swing and a miss . . . you are completely missing the point of his post
you continue to amaze me with your analytical thinking
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I've been bz last month, Thanks a lot Med student for jacking my thread. I give the he-she-it 6months after treating patients to have complete mental breakdown as reality sinks in, then quit medicine become a meth addict and clean out mom's bank account, Anyone else care to take that wager. (I'm supplying the meth)
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Back to my original question to get ideas to achieve production of 1.5 mil,
I think hygiene (3 full time!) is the key to his sucess. What do you guys think Hygiene generates towards production?
I think hygiene (3 full time!) is the key to his sucess. What do you guys think Hygiene generates towards production?
kerrydds06 said:
Kinda all depends on your specific practice. The other thing is why not just say you want to take home 500k. (that's like grossing 1.5) You can do that buy just lowering your costs and growing a smart practice. The key is patients with money and staying busy. After that, just keep your costs undercontrol. I know a solo practicioner who keeps 400k and does his own cleanings!
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I've heard practice management gurus say that you should be profiting at least 2 - 2.5 times the amount that you pay them. Anyone else?kerrydds06 said:
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I think what is missing in this thread is the lifestyle issue. 500K or 1.5 gross is a whole heck of a lot of money for someone who works 4 days a week and takes no call.
The cardiologists and others who are earning 500K + type of money are working 50-60 hours per week and are on call a lot.
If you are interested in lifestyle and income, nothing beats dentistry.
The cardiologists and others who are earning 500K + type of money are working 50-60 hours per week and are on call a lot.
If you are interested in lifestyle and income, nothing beats dentistry.
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a_student said:
someone had to do it...
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OMFSCardsFan said:
I asked around and was told the same thing, but in a different way, pay hygienist 1/3 of their production. better incentive for them to produce.
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daelroy said:
I decided on dentistry strictly because I'm good at it, enjoy it and cause I saw the lifestyle the docs I worked for in the military were enjoying, while I did the grunt work. As I'm researching my options for next June, I'm trying to get as much practice management to ensure I maximize my returns for all this headache and BS of DS.
We have not had enough PM in DS.
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SMC2UCLA2_ said:
someone had to do it...
Don't encourage him/her/it , ignore the kid, he/she/it might go away.
let the HMO's open their eyes
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General dentists can take home 400K with some sweat and a little luck, and it does take some time to hit your stride. My dad is an OS and all his referring dentists make 350-400K in the seattle area. All they do everyday: crowns, restorations, fillings. If they have a patient who needs a root canal they refer, no matter what, braces...referral. Etc. Before taxes they do 1.5 mill. My dad does a little over 2.3 million before taxes. Takes home abt 800K. He doesn't make the radar cause he likes to fly low. Why share sweet business secrets? Actually its nothing, all he does are 3rds and extractions and implants. Sometimes he'll do a larger case at a surgical center/hospital. Numbers like this are very obtainable!
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bump
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Out of dental school, how much do dentists usually make if they are going to associate for a few years? And I'm talking about after taxes... thanks.
