How to choose SMP program

[the_process_001]

Hi Everyone!

Couldnt find much information about this so I need some help!! Currently have a 2.8 cgpa with a not so good trend. I was able to get a 518 MCAT and have pretty good EC’s. Was looking into DIY post bacc but to be honest, can’t afford it. Was hoping for an SMP somewhere but do you guys think my stats will help? Definitely dont want to think about Caribbean schools. Please help I’m really lost here. Thank you in advance!!

2.7 sGPA

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[MyOdyssey]

Hi Everyone!

Couldnt find much information about this so I need some help!! Currently have a 2.8 cgpa with a not so good trend. I was able to get a 518 MCAT and have pretty good EC’s. Was looking into DIY post bacc but to be honest, can’t afford it. Was hoping for an SMP somewhere but do you guys think my stats will help? Definitely dont want to think about Caribbean schools. Please help I’m really lost here. Thank you in advance!!

What is your sGPA (science GPA)?

How many premed prerequisites have you taken and what were your grades in them? Ds and Fs are in those courses have to be repeated. Perhaps C- as well (not sure).

SMPs are expensive too.

 

[the_process_001]

What is your sGPA?

my science GPA is a 2.7

 

[MyOdyssey]

Any premed prerequisites with a grade below C?

 

[the_process_001]

Any premed prerequisites with a grade below C?

Nope

 

[MyOdyssey]

There’s a good post bacc and SMP subforum on SDN:

Postbaccalaureate Programs

Discuss Postbaccalaureate Premedical Programs.

forums.studentdoctor.net

I know little about SMPs:

1. The good SMPs are linked with medical schools. They last one year and you take classes with that medical school’s first year students and compete with them except you get assigned a letter grade.

2. Good SMPs will admit a certain number of high performers into the linked medical schools.

3. You have to apply to be admitted into the SMP and they typically look at your GPA and MCAT.

Beyond that you might learn a lot about different programs on the subforum.

 

[the_process_001]

There’s a good post bacc and SMP subforum on SDN:

Postbaccalaureate Programs

Discuss Postbaccalaureate Premedical Programs.

forums.studentdoctor.net

I know little about SMPs:

1. The good SMPs are linked with medical schools. They last one year and you take classes with that medical school’s first year students and compete with them except you get assigned a letter grade.

2. Good SMPs will admit a certain number of high performers into the linked medical schools.

3. You have to apply to be admitted into the SMP and they typically look at your GPA and MCAT.

Beyond that you might learn a lot about different programs on the subforum.

My only issue is my GPA, are there cut offs for SMP ??? Do they even admit anyone with a sub 3.0

 

[MyOdyssey]

My only issue is my GPA, are there cut offs for SMP ??? Do they even admit anyone with a sub 3.0

That's an issue you need to research by looking at individual programs' websites for starters.

 

[HannahSparkle]

My only issue is my GPA, are there cut offs for SMP ??? Do they even admit anyone with a sub 3.0

I applied to 11 SMPs with a 2.2 uGPA and was accepted to 10.

A: CWRUSM, GCSOM, Tufts, Tulane, UVM, RWJMS, NJMS, JHBU MS program, ARCOM, PCOM
R: RFU

 

[MyOdyssey]

I applied to 11 SMPs with a 2.2 uGPA and was accepted to 10.

A: CWRUSM, GCSOM, Tufts, Tulane, UVM, RWJMS, NJMS, JHBU MS program, ARCOM, PCOM
R: RFU

Which SMPs have the best linkage programs based on your experience and research?

 

[HannahSparkle]

Which SMPs have the best linkage programs based on your experience and research?

I am not an admissions expert, so YMMV.

None of these programs are outstanding, but from the list, GCSOM linking is best by far (I believe it is 20%).
RWJMS requires a 2.9 uGPA to link and only reserves 3 spots (with the possibility for more, with 9 in 2020) for an SMP program of about 140 students.
NJMS does not require a uGPA, and interviews anyone with a 3.6 in the SMP and 127/127/127/127.
Tulane has several SMPs, with the ACLP having a very strong link, but this is not the one which I applied to.

 

[the_process_001]

I applied to 11 SMPs with a 2.2 uGPA and was accepted to 10.

A: CWRUSM, GCSOM, Tufts, Tulane, UVM, RWJMS, NJMS, JHBU MS program, ARCOM, PCOM
R: RFU

Mind sharing which SMP you ended up attending and why ??

 

[HannahSparkle]

Mind sharing which SMP you ended up attending and why ??

So my answer to this is really stupid. Story ensues.

I applied very late in the cycle and got decisions during the summer. I had just gotten acceptances from NJMS and RWJMS within days of each other, and, working fast, I accidentally got their linking policies mixed up. Yep.

So I went to RWJMS and was ineligible for the link despite 4.0/519. Yes, I am aware this was entirely my fault.

I will say the curriculum was excellent and I definitely feel as though it both expanded on undergrad course content and better prepared me for future health education.
The career development aspect of the program is weaksauce, and it was very hard to get advising. Also, I'm not sure how much completing this program improved my med school prospects since I'm still at 0 ii DO and MD.

 

[MyOdyssey]

So my answer to this is really stupid. Story ensues.

I applied very late in the cycle and got decisions during the summer. I had just gotten acceptances from NJMS and RWJMS within days of each other, and, working fast, I accidentally got their linking policies mixed up. Yep.

So I went to RWJMS and was ineligible for the link despite 4.0/519. Yes, I am aware this was entirely my fault.

I will say the curriculum was excellent and I definitely feel as though it both expanded on undergrad course content and better prepared me for future health education.
The career development aspect of the program is weaksauce, and it was very hard to get advising. Also, I'm not sure how much completing this program improved my med school prospects since I'm still at 0 ii DO and MD.

Sorry to hear about everything you’ve gone through. 4.0 was your SMP GPA and 519 was your post-SMP MCAT? Had you taken the MCAT before matriculating in the SMP?

 

[HannahSparkle]

Sorry to hear about everything you’ve gone through. 4.0 was your SMP GPA and 519 was your post-SMP MCAT? Had you taken the MCAT before matriculating in the SMP?

One take only, prior to SMP.

 

[KnightDoc]

So my answer to this is really stupid. Story ensues.

I applied very late in the cycle and got decisions during the summer. I had just gotten acceptances from NJMS and RWJMS within days of each other, and, working fast, I accidentally got their linking policies mixed up. Yep.

So I went to RWJMS and was ineligible for the link despite 4.0/519. Yes, I am aware this was entirely my fault.

I will say the curriculum was excellent and I definitely feel as though it both expanded on undergrad course content and better prepared me for future health education.
The career development aspect of the program is weaksauce, and it was very hard to get advising. Also, I'm not sure how much completing this program improved my med school prospects since I'm still at 0 ii DO and MD.

I'm also really sorry to hear this. It sounds extremely upsetting. SMPs have a reputation for being high risk, high reward. Not worthless. RWJMS is a reputable school. Not sure about the rep of its SMP, but it can't possibly be THAT bad, and you totally crushed it. Same with the MCAT.

It's definitely still early, but this would concern me. Have you sought guidance from one of the resident reinvention experts, like @Goro, or from whatever poses as advising at the program? They certainly owe you that much for your time and performance, not to mention tuition, even if they don't owe you a guaranteed spot in their med school. And, if your uCGA was so low that it was beyond redemption (I don't think there is any such thing, and @Goro would know better, but anything is possible), then they should have been honest with you and not taken your money and caused you to waste time with them.

GOOD LUCK!!! IIs will continue to go out until the spring. Especially at DOs, which have a longer cycle.

 

[HannahSparkle]

I'm also really sorry to hear this. It sounds extremely upsetting. SMPs have a reputation for being high risk, high reward. Not worthless. RWJMS is a reputable school. Not sure about the rep of its SMP, but it can't possibly be THAT bad, and you totally crushed it. Same with the MCAT.

It's definitely still early, but this would concern me. Have you sought guidance from one of the resident reinvention experts, like @Goro, or from whatever poses as advising at the program? They certainly owe you that much for your time and performance, not to mention tuition, even if they don't owe you a guaranteed spot in their med school. And, if your uCGA was so low that it was beyond redemption (I don't think there is any such thing, and @Goro would know better, but anything is possible), then they should have been honest with you and not taken your money and caused you to waste time with them.

GOOD LUCK!!! IIs will continue to go out until the spring. Especially at DOs, which have a longer cycle.

My goodness, the legendary/infamous KnightDoc has responded to my post. This is truly a monumental day!

Kidding aside, I got excellent help crafting a list from Goro. I was aware that this would be an uphill battle going in. I am still optimistic. I appreciate your encouragement as well.

Now to avoid getting too far off topic, I hard heard that some of the best SMPs for linking include Drexel, Cincinnati, Tulane ACLP, TouroNY, LECOM.
Some of the best SMPs for improving credentials (high acceptance rate at other institutions) include Georgetown, Tufts, Boston, Brown.
Very non-exhaustive list.

 

[KnightDoc]

My goodness, the legendary/infamous KnightDoc has responded to my post. This is truly a monumental day!

Kidding aside, I got excellent help crafting a list from Goro. I was aware that this would be an uphill battle going in. I am still optimistic. I appreciate your encouragement as well.

Now to avoid getting too far off topic, I hard heard that some of the best SMPs for linking include Drexel, Cincinnati, Tulane ACLP, TouroNY, LECOM.
Some of the best SMPs for improving credentials (high acceptance rate at other institutions) include Georgetown, Tufts, Boston, Brown.
Very non-exhaustive list.

Thanks for the shout out!

Also, all kidding aside, we are all here to help each other. That includes me, even if my posts sometimes are a little tone deaf.

I really does upset me to see someone like you do everything right and still get the short end of the stick, if that's what ends up happening here. For all intents and purposes, you can't do better than a 519. And, you absolutely cannot do better than 4.0. So, that begs the question, what else is there for you to do?

I am more than optimistic. Anyone who can overcome your uGPA to get a 4.0 in a SMP AND a 96%-ile on the MCAT WILL become a doctor. The only question is how much longer will it take and what other hoops might you have to jump through to get there.

Beyond your school list, which I just assumed would be fine, I was thinking more along the lines of @Goro or the school hopefully, maybe, helping you identify any other potential weaknesses in your application aside from the uGPA, which was certainly addressed as well as possible by the SMP.

 

[the_process_001]

So my answer to this is really stupid. Story ensues.

I applied very late in the cycle and got decisions during the summer. I had just gotten acceptances from NJMS and RWJMS within days of each other, and, working fast, I accidentally got their linking policies mixed up. Yep.

So I went to RWJMS and was ineligible for the link despite 4.0/519. Yes, I am aware this was entirely my fault.

I will say the curriculum was excellent and I definitely feel as though it both expanded on undergrad course content and better prepared me for future health education.
The career development aspect of the program is weaksauce, and it was very hard to get advising. Also, I'm not sure how much completing this program improved my med school prospects since I'm still at 0 ii DO and MD.

I’m so sorry to hear that man. You are extremely capable of becoming a doctor with those stats! Good luck to you and i hope all goes well!!!! I am just starting my journey and feel extremely behind as well.

 

[the_process_001]

I'm also really sorry to hear this. It sounds extremely upsetting. SMPs have a reputation for being high risk, high reward. Not worthless. RWJMS is a reputable school. Not sure about the rep of its SMP, but it can't possibly be THAT bad, and you totally crushed it. Same with the MCAT.

It's definitely still early, but this would concern me. Have you sought guidance from one of the resident reinvention experts, like @Goro, or from whatever poses as advising at the program? They certainly owe you that much for your time and performance, not to mention tuition, even if they don't owe you a guaranteed spot in their med school. And, if your uCGA was so low that it was beyond redemption (I don't think there is any such thing, and @Goro would know better, but anything is possible), then they should have been honest with you and not taken your money and caused you to waste time with them.

GOOD LUCK!!! IIs will continue to go out until the spring. Especially at DOs, which have a longer cycle.

Do you know any SMP programs with linkages to DO schools??

 

[KnightDoc]

Do you know any SMP programs with linkages to DO schools??

Sorry, not my thing. @Goro is the resident reinvention and DO expert. Hopefully he will see this and chime in.

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

Honestly Id raise your GPA as much as possible via DIY post bacc. If you can get it above 3.0 you should be a safe applicant

 

[PalaceLover]

SMP tab at the bottom, this has >90% of all the programs out there.

 

[candbgirl]

Honestly Id raise your GPA as much as possible via DIY post bacc. If you can get it above 3.0 you should be a safe applicant

I was thinking this too. Despite your outstanding performance in the SMP you might be getting screened out by a computer that is set for 3.0 or 3. 2 for uGPA and nobody sees that wonderful 4.0. We know it’s not your MCAT since you took that one time.

 

[HannahSparkle]

Honestly Id raise your GPA as much as possible via DIY post bacc. If you can get it above 3.0 you should be a safe applicant

This would require about 70 credits, and I'm 32. Nope, if this cycle doesn't pan out, I'm going back to my old job. Its nice to be able to afford food and healthcare. I may decide to apply to midlevel programs in the future once I look into what this would entail.

About SMPs with strong links to DO programs, the nice thing is that linking policies are usually explicitly stated on the program websites.
If one were to take time to review all the programs and linking requirements, one could determine if he or she has a good chance at meeting those requirements (not like me). Often the requirements include an MCAT score and a certain level of performance in the SMP, but may include a certain undergraduate GPA.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Do you know any SMP programs with linkages to DO schools??

There definitely are SMP programs with linkages to DO schools.

This would require about 70 credits, and I'm 32. Nope, if this cycle doesn't pan out, I'm going back to my old job. Its nice to be able to afford food and healthcare. I may decide to apply to midlevel programs in the future once I look into what this would entail.

About SMPs with strong links to DO programs, the nice thing is that linking policies are usually explicitly stated on the program websites.
If one were to take time to review all the programs and linking requirements, one could determine if he or she has a good chance at meeting those requirements (not like me). Often the requirements include an MCAT score and a certain level of performance in the SMP, but may include a certain undergraduate GPA.

What do you mean by midlevel programs?

 

[the_process_001]

Honestly Id raise your GPA as much as possible via DIY post bacc. If you can get it above 3.0 you should be a safe applicant

Cant afford that tbh even at my state university, I debated to go to Caribbean for a while till a friend talked me out of it. At this point I am hoping for one for these SMP programs to give me a chance.

 

[the_process_001]

There definitely are SMP programs with linkages to DO schools.

What do you mean by midlevel programs?

i am looking at some but my GPA is whats killing me im just hoping my ECs and MCAT give me a boost

 

[KnightDoc]

Cant afford that tbh even at my state university, I debated to go to Caribbean for a while till a friend talked me out of it. At this point I am hoping for one for these SMP programs to give me a chance.

Why do you keep asking about SMPs while saying that you can't afford a DIY? I am pretty sure that SMPs are a lot more expensive than DIYs, even after taking federal loans into account.

 

[the_process_001]

Why do you keep asking about SMPs while saying that you can't afford a DIY? I am pretty sure that SMPs are a lot more expensive than DIYs, even after taking federal loans into account.

You cant take out federal loans for a DIY

Also: cant really take out a private loan

 

[KnightDoc]

You cant take out federal loans for a DIY

Also: cant really take out a private loan

Even so, aren't SMP loans capped at $20K, and don't they cost way more than $20K more than DIY?

Also, can't you do a DIY as part of a second bachelors degree that you don't complete, and wouldn't that make it eligible for federal loans?

 

[the_process_001]

Even so, aren't SMP loans capped at $20K, and don't they cost way more than $20K more than DIY?

Also, can't you do a DIY as part of a second bachelors degree that you don't complete, and wouldn't that make it eligible for federal loans?

I didnt know that and applied non degree. But i didnt know that about SMP’s tbh

 

[KnightDoc]

I didnt know that and applied non degree. But i didnt know that about SMP’s tbh

I'm not exactly sure how the degree/non-degree thing works for federal loans with DIY post-baccs, but I do know that SMPs are high risk/high reward hella expensive, and I've NEVER heard anyone claim they are a less expensive option, after loans, as compared to DIY. Do yourself a favor and ask a ton of questions before deciding one way or the other. Remember, loans have to be paid back, and DIY can be done at CC if necessary.

 

[HannahSparkle]

I'm not exactly sure how the degree/non-degree thing works for federal loans with DIY post-baccs, but I do know that SMPs are high risk/high reward hella expensive, and I've NEVER heard anyone claim they are a less expensive option, after loans, as compared to DIY. Do yourself a favor and ask a ton of questions before deciding one way or the other. Remember, loans have to be paid back, and DIY can be done at CC if necessary.

The program at RWJMS was about 20 a semester, including health insurance and all extra charges and fees. I recall most of the programs I looked at being in this ballpark.

 

[the_process_001]

I'm not exactly sure how the degree/non-degree thing works for federal loans with DIY post-baccs, but I do know that SMPs are high risk/high reward hella expensive, and I've NEVER heard anyone claim they are a less expensive option, after loans, as compared to DIY. Do yourself a favor and ask a ton of questions before deciding one way or the other. Remember, loans have to be paid back, and DIY can be done at CC if necessary.

Wouldn’t i be at a disadvantage going back to a CC to take classes?

 

[KnightDoc]

Wouldn’t i be at a disadvantage going back to a CC to take classes?

Maybe. It depends on the school. Some are fine with it. Others, not so much. But, if money is an issue, most schools will understand.

 

[Arsartium]

Even so, aren't SMP loans capped at $20K, and don't they cost way more than $20K more than DIY?

Also, can't you do a DIY as part of a second bachelors degree that you don't complete, and wouldn't that make it eligible for federal loans?

The federal direct loan is capped at $20K per academic year. The federal plus loan can cover the rest up to the cost of attendance. SMP cost of attendance can be covered entirely with federal loans... just like every other graduate program. True that an SMP will cost more.

 

[BuffaloRiver10]

Do you know any SMP programs with linkages to DO schools??

I graduated ARCOM’s SMP in May and currently an OMS-1 here and doing very well. I say you have a good shot at their program if you are interested with your Mcat being very high. You must keep a B average to get the interview invite though. We had good linkage with majority of the graduates being accepted and matriculating into medical school. It is a tough program, but it has helped me significantly first year seeing the same material again. I also agree that they can be high risk if you are not prepared for the workload. There were quite a few of my classmates who dropped out sadly. You can PM me if you would like more information about the program. Good luck!

 

[AnotherPre-med]

Hey everyone! I think you all should check out Brown University's MMS program (Brown MMS - Applications now open!). I believe it is the best SMP program, and it has benefited me a lot! I've done extensive research on other SMPs such as Georgetown, NYMC, Cincinnati, and EVMS - however I ended up choosing Brown University's MMS program. Their MD matriculation rate is far higher than any other school and their advising is amazing. Of course, you will also be getting a degree from an IVY league institution.

 

[j3987]

Hey everyone! I think you all should check out Brown University's MMS program (Brown MMS - Applications now open!). I believe it is the best SMP program, and it has benefited me a lot! I've done extensive research on other SMPs such as Georgetown, NYMC, Cincinnati, and EVMS - however I ended up choosing Brown University's MMS program. Their MD matriculation rate is far higher than any other school and their advising is amazing. Of course, you will also be getting a degree from an IVY league institution.

If you don't mind telling us how much the program ended up being?

 

[AnotherPre-med]

If you don't mind telling us how much the program ended up being?

hey! sorry for the delay in response. It came out to about 80K with tuition, living and expenses