How to fight sleep?

[fpr85]

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Although I'm only in undergrad, I still have to study a lot (not to the extent of you guys though, obviously) and can't do so because of *drum roll* the evil sleep!

Over a year ago I had mono and all I would do is sleep, sleep, sleep... all I seem to do today is sleep, sleep, sleep. I try and fight the urge but the sleepiness is just so overwhelming that it eventually takes over and I go to bed with a lot of studying left to do.

Could I still be this way because of the mono I had a while back?

I exercise regularly (not as much as I should though) and don't drink soda (no caffeine for me) because it gives me an upset stomach (my mother has ulcerative colitis and inflammatory bowel disease, is this hereditary?).

I need some advice on how to stay awake, it's just awful! On average I sleep about 10-12 hours a day and am still tired when I wake up!

What type of physician would I consult for this matter?
Thanks.

 

[stoic]

Some people just need a lot of sleep to function.

Try to keep a regular schedule (IE go to bed and get up at the same times everyday), exercise reguarly, and eat as balances a diet as you can (i know it's tough while you're in school).

As for staying awake to study? fpr85, coffee. Coffee, fpr85. Now that you two have been introduced, you should get to know each other very well in the next few years.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Although I'm only in undergrad, I still have to study a lot (not to the extent of you guys though, obviously) and can't do so because of *drum roll* the evil sleep!

Over a year ago I had mono and all I would do is sleep, sleep, sleep... all I seem to do today is sleep, sleep, sleep. I try and fight the urge but the sleepiness is just so overwhelming that it eventually takes over and I go to bed with a lot of studying left to do.

Could I still be this way because of the mono I had a while back?

I exercise regularly (not as much as I should though) and don't drink soda (no caffeine for me) because it gives me an upset stomach (my mother has ulcerative colitis and inflammatory bowel disease, is this hereditary?).

I need some advice on how to stay awake, it's just awful! On average I sleep about 10-12 hours a day and am still tired when I wake up!

What type of physician would I consult for this matter?
Thanks.

Try an alarm, and don't sit in any comfortable furniture 👍

 

[Chronotropic]

What time are you going to sleep? This summer I went to sleep at 1 or 2 in the morning every day and slept as much as I wanted to. But I always seemed to be tired even when I just woke up. Contrast that to when I went to sleep at 11 during the school year and woke up from 7 to 8 and always did fine.

 

[Robz]

I have learned in medical school I have much less time than I thought...yet there is still some free time around...and I usually use it for sleep.

I met a good friend of mine this semester...it is called caffiene. I now have to have a coke/diet coke to stay awake during my 8am lectures when they turn off the lights.

I feel good but I'm averaging 5-6 hours a night and it seems to keep me going.

 

[fpr85]

I have learned in medical school I have much less time than I thought...yet there is still some free time around...and I usually use it for sleep.

I met a good friend of mine this semester...it is called caffiene. I now have to have a coke/diet coke to stay awake during my 8am lectures when they turn off the lights.

I feel good but I'm averaging 5-6 hours a night and it seems to keep me going.

Have you tried caffeine tablets? How are those, and more importantly DO THEY WORK!?

 

[Blake]

I don't understand the fascination with coffee. Call me crazy, but I plan on not using a single drop of coffee through med school. I've been fine so far, so no use for that 😀

 

[docbill]

I can take coffee and fall asleep... no prob
btw caffeen tablets... I don't know you undergrads and the need to use something... did you try smaking yourself in the face a couple of time.. or banging your baby toe against the wall. That would wake you up.

If you keep a healthy lifestyle.. exercise.. eat properly you should be able to stay up for 14 hours straight. Otherwise you can always take a small nap in the afternoon.. or better yet in the library (okay maybe not). I don't understand how or why some girls need so much sleep. My GF can sleep 12 hours straight and usually has to have 10 hours to be non-grumpy. I work on 7 hours PERFECTLY FINE... can do 6 and be okay for 4 days of the week. I like to rotate.. 6 hours, next day 7 and then 6 ... depending on how much I have the next day.

SWEET DREAMS

 

[closertofine]

I'm dropping in from the allopathic forums since this sleep issue is definitely an important one to me! I have needed varying amounts of sleep to feel all right, but most often (and lately) I seem to need at least 10 hours a day to feel OK...I think I function best on about 12...although I have been known to sleep for 16 hours a day on occasion! Needless to say, I'm not getting that much sleep in med school...I do usually get 7 or 8 at night and then often take a nap for an hour or two during the day.

And I think I've gotten tolerant to caffeine...I used to be bouncing off the walls with only half a can of Coke (seriously!), but now I'll down a whole 20 ounces of Diet Mountain Dew and still be able to climb into bed and fall right to sleep. I hate the taste of coffee...how does Red Bull taste?!

For a while, I thought the best thing to do was to force myself to stay awake to do the studying I needed to do. But then I realized I wasn't retaining any of the material because I was so exhausted. So recently I've started taking a nap when I feel like I really can't function...and afterwards I have at least a little while to study with a functioning brain!

I wish I knew how to fix this...I wonder if it's true that mostly girls seem to need this much sleep?! I know I'm in for trouble once second year hits (and probably more so in third year!) since when I'm tired, I quickly get to the point where I don't care about much else except getting some sleep!

Ideas?! 😕

Edit: Oops, I forgot to mention...I do exercise regularly (when I'm awake, that is!) 😉 , almost every day...and I try to eat healthily but do tend to eat mostly pre-packaged foods (gotta love those protein bars for breakfast, mmm!)

 

[chicamedica]

Hmm, the girl trend might be true. I also can't function if I don't get at least 7-8 hours (more towards the 8) of sleep per night (more if I've been sleep deprived for a while). I can do ok for a few days, maybe a week, but after that, the old noodle's cognition starts declining very quickly and I also get to the point where I don't care about anything else but getting some sleep. Then I start showing signs of dementia (short term memory loss, inability to think of words, losing things, and of course the mental ******ation). Then I get insomnia, which doesn't help either. This was actually going on for me during the past few months, esp starting towards the end of MS3, and I'm just starting to recuperate from the dementia now (taking lots of vitamin B complex, go figure!).
I'm serious about the dementia.

I used to do the nap thing--it worked really well for me in undergrad and during the first 2 years of med school. When I wasn't retaining anything or starting to daydream, I'd just lay my head down on the pile of books I was studying and take a 20 min snooze, then wake up and study with a fresh mind for anywhere between 30 min-2 hours, depending on how late it was. This obviously doesn't work for 3rd and 4th year of med school.

Caffeine is great, but I hate getting addicted to it. (Partly because I depend on it to work effectively when I do need it!). So I try to use it only when I absolutely need it. (which has been more often than not lately!)

I always cringe when some people say sleep is overrated. Sleep is definitely NOT overrated to me!!! If I don't sleep I'm basically useless.

 

[omarsaleh66]

u could try studying standing up, or walking back and forth. That will wake u up.

also, break the studying up into little blocks, and get some work done, take a break, and walk around, then do another block of work.

I guess coffee cant help, cuz that might give u ulcers cuz of ur condition. Or turn up ur AC, so its so cold, u dont fall asleep. Just dont give up. Carmelo Anthony would never give up. Lance Armstrong got tired but he never went to sleep when he played with his bike. Usher gets tired but he still sings and freaks hoes.

Always have hope and never give up!!!

 

[LukeWhite]

Modafinil/Provigil!

No major side effects, no addictive potential, and it's alertness-promoting rather than alertness-inducing. With a pretty high maintenance dose, you can stay awake without any tiredness for around 72 hours in a pinch.

It was previously used mainly to treat narcolepsy, and oddly enough, MS. But it's becoming more of a lifestyle drug; I believe the FDA just expanded its recommendations for it. The FDA chairman's on record as saying that if he were driving at night, he'd rather that the semi-truck driver beside him be on Provigil.

A drug's a drug, but this one's got every indication of being superior to caffeine in every way but price ($3-6 a pill, and even if you can get a doc to prescribe it, insurance will likely laugh at any reimbursement request.)

 

[chicamedica]

Modafinil/Provigil!

No major side effects, no addictive potential, and it's alertness-promoting rather than alertness-inducing. With a pretty high maintenance dose, you can stay awake without any tiredness for around 72 hours in a pinch.

It was previously used mainly to treat narcolepsy, and oddly enough, MS. But it's becoming more of a lifestyle drug; I believe the FDA just expanded its recommendations for it. The FDA chairman's on record as saying that if he were driving at night, he'd rather that the semi-truck driver beside him be on Provigil.

A drug's a drug, but this one's got every indication of being superior to caffeine in every way but price ($3-6 a pill, and even if you can get a doc to prescribe it, insurance will likely laugh at any reimbursement request.)

if you take one, can you still fall asleep sometime during the 72 hours if you want to?

 

[LukeWhite]

if you take one, can you still fall asleep sometime during the 72 hours if you want to?

Yes. You just won't be tired.

And according to the literature, it takes a lot to get that kind of wakefulness...for a 72-hour alertness binge, you'd need to be popping $6 pills every four hours or so. It's a popular drug with special ops divisions in the military, for obvious reasons.

 

[cooldreams]

geez guys... why would you lower yourselves to take drugs to allow you to study or whatever better?? do you plan on continuing that habbit on into residency?? i hear that is even more hecktic... what about after res?? you performed so well then, why not in practice, so you can get a better rep and earn more money??

bottom line... when does it end?? when you die??? dont fall into this dead end track... if you need more time to study than what you currently have, then stop doing some activities until you are able to do it naturally.... 🙄

 

[cooldreams]

Yes. You just won't be tired.

And according to the literature, it takes a lot to get that kind of wakefulness...for a 72-hour alertness binge, you'd need to be popping $6 pills every four hours or so. It's a popular drug with special ops divisions in the military, for obvious reasons.

"according to the literature blah blah blah"... dood ... why fix it if it aint broke?? are you an engineer?? i am and i wouldnt want to fix my body with a new cocktail of drugs when i am fine just like i am... this is crazy....
👎

 

[LukeWhite]

"according to the literature blah blah blah"... dood

Er, yes. If I heard that coming out of my doctor's mouth, I'd be finding a new one.

Actually, I don't take modafinil, though not for any high-minded reasons--it's expensive. As for "not fixing what ain't broke," well, I think that argument speaks for itself. When you begin your prescription writing career, what standard will you apply to determine whether something's "broke"?

I'm all for doctors being able to practice as they see fit, provided they don't hurt anyone. Seems to me, though, as if you're taking a rather narrow view of medicine. Medicine is not the art of saving lives; it's the art of improving them, which sometimes involves saving. This dichotomy you seem to be setting up between drugs and good clean natural livin' is false; there's absolutely no qualitative difference.

I will concede, though, that it's a little tough to get a prescription for modafinil filled when it takes three hours by horse-drawn buggy to get to the pharmacy. And today wash day and all. If only we had some sort of....washing-and-horseless-buggy contraption to improve our life! 'Course, that would probably require one of those fancy engineers.

 

[closertofine]

Modafinil/Provigil!

No major side effects, no addictive potential, and it's alertness-promoting rather than alertness-inducing. With a pretty high maintenance dose, you can stay awake without any tiredness for around 72 hours in a pinch.

It was previously used mainly to treat narcolepsy, and oddly enough, MS. But it's becoming more of a lifestyle drug; I believe the FDA just expanded its recommendations for it. The FDA chairman's on record as saying that if he were driving at night, he'd rather that the semi-truck driver beside him be on Provigil.

A drug's a drug, but this one's got every indication of being superior to caffeine in every way but price ($3-6 a pill, and even if you can get a doc to prescribe it, insurance will likely laugh at any reimbursement request.)

I wish it worked that way for everyone...I tried it for a while several years ago (as a prescription...long story...doc thought I might have narcolepsy or some other sleep-inducing problem...maybe I still do!)...but it did nothing for me. Caffeine worked better than that did! But maybe I wasn't taking enough...or maybe I'm just one of the unlucky few who is still searching for a way to stay awake for a reasonable number of hours each day! 😳

 

[trypmo]

Modafinil/Provigil!

No major side effects, no addictive potential, and it's alertness-promoting rather than alertness-inducing. With a pretty high maintenance dose, you can stay awake without any tiredness for around 72 hours in a pinch.

It was previously used mainly to treat narcolepsy, and oddly enough, MS. But it's becoming more of a lifestyle drug; I believe the FDA just expanded its recommendations for it. The FDA chairman's on record as saying that if he were driving at night, he'd rather that the semi-truck driver beside him be on Provigil.

A drug's a drug, but this one's got every indication of being superior to caffeine in every way but price ($3-6 a pill, and even if you can get a doc to prescribe it, insurance will likely laugh at any reimbursement request.)

Hmm... have there been any studies on information retention (or lack thereof) associated with the drug? Staying awake for driving is one thing, but for incorporating new material it's another type of brain activity altogether, isn't it?

 

[LukeWhite]

closer,

It definitely doesn't work for everyone. In fact, if it doesn't, it's quite possible you have narcolepsy. It's an underdiagnosed condition, and doesn't necessarily have to involve cataplexy...excessive daytime sleepiness is often a tip-off. Like most diseases, I expect that over time we'll see a continuum of narcolepsy as the biochem is worked out.

 

[LukeWhite]

Hmm... have there been any studies on information retention (or lack thereof) associated with the drug? Staying awake for driving is one thing, but for incorporating new material it's another type of brain activity altogether, isn't it?

There's a lot of information (though perhaps a little biased in the selection) at www.modafinil.org. A pubmed search of modafinil will also turn up quite a lot; it's hard to find anything negative about it.

Given its ultra-low abuse potential, few-to-none side effects, and amazingly quick acceptance, I'd be surprised if this wasn't OTC in twenty or thirty years.

 

[Megalofyia]

I don't like sodas or coffee... what I find helps me is to get outside.. Sometimes I study outside.. make notecards and walk around to study. If I'm moving I'm less likey to be sleepy. I find that I feel narcoleptic almost when I have to sit and do something for any length of time.

 

[InductionAgent]

There's a lot of information (though perhaps a little biased in the selection) at www.modafinil.org. A pubmed search of modafinil will also turn up quite a lot; it's hard to find anything negative about it.

Given its ultra-low abuse potential, few-to-none side effects, and amazingly quick acceptance, I'd be surprised if this wasn't OTC in twenty or thirty years.

Modafinil is currently a Schedule IV drug. While there is a lot of precedent for prescription drugs going OTC, I'm unaware of any controlled substances that have made that leap.

As long as we're talking about stay-awake drugs, ephedrine really is great for that. When I worked graveyard shift at a convenience store back in the day, I felt that it gave me a clarity I didn't get from coffee. Oh, the good ol' days when it was OTC. Now in some states, it's Schedule IV.

 

[DoctorInSpace]

I've had many sleep problems in my life. I was on Provigil for almost a year, mostly because i was falling asleep EVERYWHERE!! In the car, in class, in the cafeteria, and I felt like I would fall asleep even while I was walking. I had all the classic signs and symptoms of narcolepsy, except that it only lasted for a year. The medication worked for me, to help keep me awake during the day, without jitters, and I felt it did help me to focus on my studying. However, I am not one for taking pills if not totally necessary. So, i don't take them anymore.

A few years later, we associated daytime sleepiness to low iron. I got a few IV iron pushes (which i became allergic to--long story) and all my symptoms went away. When i feel overly tired in the day, i beef up on the iron pills for a while, and i'm usually ok.

So, for the person who feels tired all the time.....go and see your doctor, and get checked out. It could be that something is a little off, and it can be easily fixed.

Good luck.

 

[Fed Meat]

If you really want to be alert and not sleep if you don't want to, I can say that a stack of

25 mg ephedrine hcl
200 mg caffeine pill

x3 times per day will do the trick. You'll lose some fat, too.

Seriously, this stuff keeps you awake. And as long as you don't overdose on the ephedrine, it's perfectly safe.

I'd really only go on this when you have a lot of work, though. A four to six week cycle.

And no, ephedrine wasn't banned b/c of the three or four deaths that resulted from massive overdoses. It was banned b/c it can be easily transformed into meth.

 

[InductionAgent]

If you really want to be alert and not sleep if you don't want to, I can say that a stack of

25 mg ephedrine hcl
200 mg caffeine pill

x3 times per day will do the trick. You'll lose some fat, too.

Seriously, this stuff keeps you awake. And as long as you don't overdose on the ephedrine, it's perfectly safe.

I'd really only go on this when you have a lot of work, though. A four to six week cycle.

And no, ephedrine wasn't banned b/c of the three or four deaths that resulted from massive overdoses. It was banned b/c it can be easily transformed into meth.

Glad to hear another proponent of ephedrine. Personally, I prefer a bit less caffeine in the mix, though. Depending on what state you live in, you can purchase pure 25mg ephedrine tablets online - or self-prescribe if you're already a licensed physician.

 

[closertofine]

Glad to hear another proponent of ephedrine. Personally, I prefer a bit less caffeine in the mix, though. Depending on what state you live in, you can purchase pure 25mg ephedrine tablets online - or self-prescribe if you're already a licensed physician.

What? Wasn't ephedrine banned, or did I miss something...maybe it's as an Rx only? Not that I want to try it...I don't even want to think about the possible side effects, much less experience them...but just curious...

 

[Gerg]

12-13 hours of sleep per night

I used to do this over a summer, and I was always sleepy.
3 months ago, I started going from 11:30 at night till 5:30 am (6 hours) and was fine.

I read somewhere (I think it may have been in Human Physiology, by Rhoades and Pflanzer), but I'm not sure, but Humans have cycles.

One of those has to do with sleep.

Evidently we're sleepier in the early night, and in the early afternoon.

This means if you wake up at noon o'clock, you'll be waking up at one of the times of day when you're supposed to feel sleepy.

Perhaps adjust the hours that you're sleeping. Or just force yourself down to 6 hours per night for a week, and see if you'll be able to reset your internal clock.

Also, avoid at all costs foods that have large ammounts of tryptophan (milk, chicken, turkey, ect).

 

[InductionAgent]

What? Wasn't ephedrine banned, or did I miss something...maybe it's as an Rx only? Not that I want to try it...I don't even want to think about the possible side effects, much less experience them...but just curious...

How did you/ are you going to get through pharm. without thinking about the possible side effects of ephedrine? Ephedrine's actions are mediated by stimulating norepinephrine release from presynaptic neurons, as well as a degree of direct stimulation of postsynaptic adrenergic receptors, so any side effects are direct consequences of these actions.

Ephedrine was taken off as OTC, and is now Rx. It is not a federally scheduled drug, but in some states it is Schedule IV.

As Fed pointed out, the OTC sale of ephedrine was banned because it was being converted into methamphetamine, not because of its properties in its natural state. The side effects of a reasonable dose of 25mg PO are comparable to those of its close relative pseudoephedrine - most typically a mild increase in blood pressure. Effects on heart rate are variable, depending on the relative stimulation of the cardiac B-receptors or reflex bradycardia in the individual taking it. The toxic effects from ephedrine are connected to higher doses taken for weight loss by people who weren't healthy to begin with.

 

[double elle]

I walked into a gas station the other day and there was my good friend, Ephedrine! I asked the lady behind the counter how they could sell it since the ban. She said (Now, this is a lady that works behind the convenience store counter, mind you) that Ephedrine was NOT banned - but Ephedra, the 'natural' form was. Ephedrine is the synthetic form of Ephedra, she said?

Anyway, it was not the pseudo stuff - it was the real thing. It also had guafenisin (sp) in it - so it was actually marketed as a decongestant/expectorant. So, I bought two boxes.

For me, there's nothing better during allergy season, when my asthma acts up, than popping that ephedrine. Not only do I have a much better work-out running, I can actually breath.

Now, for Provigil----I have some of that, too. When I was doing my psych rotation last year, the doc gave me a bunch of samples. I RATION them!! I usually only take them when I'm on call, and I only take 1 200 mg pill. I take it about 10-11pm when I start to get tired. It doesn't make me jumpy or anything - just makes me not tired. I do start to get loopy (as I would anyway) around 4-5 in the morning from being tired - but the 200 mg doesn't go far. I've never taken more than that. I have also taken it when I've been on medicine rotations and I don't feel that I can take another step! In my opinion, if you need a little help now and then, the cost is very worth it. The new indication for it is shift-work. It also said in the website that they are researching it with college and medical students. (I read this almost a year ago - I don't know if the website still says this.)

The good side to provigil is that I can actually lie down and sleep at any time after I've taken it - if I want to. However, if I need to stay up, it certainly helps. It is not a central nervous stimulant, like ephedrine.

Bottom line - there are times you simply need to get things done. I love my sleep - but there just aren't enough hours in the day to get all I need. With a 2 year old and a husband/home to care for.....sometimes I have to use this stuff to get thru the day. Actaually, I don't even remember the last time I took Provigil. As I said, I only take it when I absolutely have to. I haven't even taken it the last couple of call nights.

I've been drinking Red Bull - I don't know if I'm getting much out of it. I've been on an 'out-rotation' and doing a lot of driving - so I've needed something to get me by on the highway. I need to do a search for Taurine - or whatever is in it that is supposedly so good. I read in people magazine that there are a bunch of new energy drinks about to come out. A lot of people here mix Red Bull with alcohol when they go out. I've never done that.

Anyway - you have to do what you have to do. As for ephedrine - the people who have died from ephedra (Xenadrine, Release, etc..) have been the individuals who should NOT have been taking it in the first place. I'd been on Xenadrine off/on for many years. I'm not overweight, I just liked how it improved my performance running. There were times it made me too jumpy and I had to go off of it for a while. However, I have never had high blood pressure or any cardiac issues.

Best of luck to you all! Sleep when you can!

By the way - does anyone have any experience with power naps? My naps are usually at least 2-3 hours (and I can STILL go to bed!!).

 

[dcratamt]

Before resorting to drug cocktails maybe you should think about having some sleep studies done. If you require 16hrs of sleep and still can't stay awake then maybe you have sleep apnea. I am sure your gen. physician could hook you up and do some blood work for thyroid etc. I am only an OMS I but you should probably talk to your doc.

 

[DrOctagon]

did you try smaking yourself in the face a couple of time.. or banging your baby toe against the wall. That would wake you up.

SWEET DREAMS

have a cup of tea

cheers mate.

 

[docbill]

Okay.. my post was not meant to be rude.. it was suppose to be funny.. somewhat. I never said I was a comedian. Just incase someone is offended. DrOCT I am glad you did not misunderstand it!!!

 

[Popoy]

Why fight sleep when you can embrace it 🙂

 

[fpr85]

I saw ephedrine in CVS but didn't buy it because it said it was used for headaches. Bought No-Doz instead, seems to be working except now I have a slight headache and my eyes hurt even though I'm mentally awake.

 

[roqlizard]

Is it possible you might have some sort of sleep apnea? I had a friend once that could and would fall asleep pretty much anytime of the day. He had trouble with his sinuses and would never fall into REM during the night...He was sleeping all the time and he was still a wreck. If you snore, have asthma or breathing difficulties you might want to start there first...To stay awake, study where its a bit on the cool side...and taking a 15 min power nap does wonders for me...the trick is you HAVE to keep it at 15 min....Good luck 😴

 

[fpr85]

I just had some blood tests done a few days ago, awaiting on the results...

 

[Fin-Nor]

how to fight sleep is to sleep

 

[LukeWhite]

The REM point is an excellent one. Conversely, slipping into REM immediately after or even before falling asleep is a telltale sign of narcolepsy, which can manifest as daytime sleepiness. I always thought it was normal for dreams to start before actually falling asleep until a family member was diagnosed with mild narcolepsy. You might investigate your dream patterns to narrow down the possibilities.

 

[gioia]

The REM point is an excellent one. Conversely, slipping into REM immediately after or even before falling asleep is a telltale sign of narcolepsy, which can manifest as daytime sleepiness. I always thought it was normal for dreams to start before actually falling asleep until a family member was diagnosed with mild narcolepsy. You might investigate your dream patterns to narrow down the possibilities.

How do you know if you are dreaming before you fall asleep?

What was your family member's diagnosis?

I set my metronome for 10 minute naps when I am tired during the day, and I definitely dream...

 

[fpr85]

got back my blood tests: normal! Liver levels slightly high though (all that food I eat!).
I think it's just that I got into a habbit of sleeping and now it's just hard to break so I need to start staying up late -- by watching TV or being on the computer (I would try and study but that definitely makes you want to fall asleep 😀 )

 

[LukeWhite]

How do you know if you are dreaming before you fall asleep?

What was your family member's diagnosis?

I set my metronome for 10 minute naps when I am tired during the day, and I definitely dream...

Gioia,

My sister was diagnosed with mild narcolepsy (awfully general, I know) manifested by extreme and debilitating daytime sleepiness.

Apparently narcolepsy is mainly characterized by bad REM patterns. Here's a pretty good description of hypnagogic hallucinations:

http://med.stanford.edu/school/Psychiatry/narcolepsy/symptoms.html

In my case, the dreams often start around 5-10 minutes before falling asleep; there's a narrative, but I can respond to and interact with the environment at the same time. Exhausting in its own right, as there's often a sort of nether-region of REM and beginning-stage sleep that seems to prevent a normal transition to deeper stages.

A few interesting narcolepsy points: A lot of the sx are due to orexin/hypocretin deficiency, which is the same pathway that the infamous Modafinil/Provigil targets. Also, folks with a certain HLA marker are orders of magnitude more likely to suffer from narcolepsy, suggesting autoimmune dysfunction. There are a few points on the Stanford website on that.

I suspect that though the science is new, it won't be long before daytime sleepiness is diagnosed with a lot more specificity than it is now. The HLA stuff has a lot of potential, not just for daytime sleepiness, but all sorts of diseases like diabetes. We've mainly been dealing with this vague symptomatic stuff on just that, a symptomatic basis, for decades, but I think within a decade we'll routinely be running HLA assays to get the underlying etiologies and at-risks.

 

[gioia]

Gioia,

My sister was diagnosed with mild narcolepsy (awfully general, I know) manifested by extreme and debilitating daytime sleepiness.

Apparently narcolepsy is mainly characterized by bad REM patterns. Here's a pretty good description of hypnagogic hallucinations:

http://med.stanford.edu/school/Psychiatry/narcolepsy/symptoms.html

In my case, the dreams often start around 5-10 minutes before falling asleep; there's a narrative, but I can respond to and interact with the environment at the same time. Exhausting in its own right, as there's often a sort of nether-region of REM and beginning-stage sleep that seems to prevent a normal transition to deeper stages.

A few interesting narcolepsy points: A lot of the sx are due to orexin/hypocretin deficiency, which is the same pathway that the infamous Modafinil/Provigil targets. Also, folks with a certain HLA marker are orders of magnitude more likely to suffer from narcolepsy, suggesting autoimmune dysfunction. There are a few points on the Stanford website on that.

I suspect that though the science is new, it won't be long before daytime sleepiness is diagnosed with a lot more specificity than it is now. The HLA stuff has a lot of potential, not just for daytime sleepiness, but all sorts of diseases like diabetes. We've mainly been dealing with this vague symptomatic stuff on just that, a symptomatic basis, for decades, but I think within a decade we'll routinely be running HLA assays to get the underlying etiologies and at-risks.

So Luke,

Do you 'hear' (I'm not talking DSMIV material here) dream like things? Oh, like talking or as if you were having conversation in a dream and then it fades as your eyes recognize the pile of texts in front of them as yours??

What exactly does your sister do now? What kind of treatment does she get?

 

[LukeWhite]

So Luke,

Do you 'hear' (I'm not talking DSMIV material here) dream like things? Oh, like talking or as if you were having conversation in a dream and then it fades as your eyes recognize the pile of texts in front of them as yours??

What exactly does your sister do now? What kind of treatment does she get?

Re. sister, I'm not sure--I haven't followed as closely as I should. Modafinil had little to no effect, which at least suggests to me some non-physiological factors.

Most of my hypnagogic stuff doesn't happen when I'm interacting with anything, so it's all pretty standard dream-stuff, I'd say. I'd love to hear what others' experiences are, but from what I gather mine differ mainly in onset rather than nature (though I do tend to remember dreams very well, maybe suggesting that this abnormal REM frequency means that some of the dreams are happening when hippocampal activity is higher than it would be during normal REM periods.)

Though there was this awesome hypnagogic hallucination in histology last year, in which for five minutes I was convinced that the professor was talking about, and had pictures illustrating, how to diagnose werewolves. Good thing I'm not the type to ask questions in class.

 

[gioia]

Re. sister, I'm not sure--I haven't followed as closely as I should. Modafinil had little to no effect, which at least suggests to me some non-physiological factors.

Most of my hypnagogic stuff doesn't happen when I'm interacting with anything, so it's all pretty standard dream-stuff, I'd say. I'd love to hear what others' experiences are, but from what I gather mine differ mainly in onset rather than nature (though I do tend to remember dreams very well, maybe suggesting that this abnormal REM frequency means that some of the dreams are happening when hippocampal activity is higher than it would be during normal REM periods.)

Though there was this awesome hypnagogic hallucination in histology last year, in which for five minutes I was convinced that the professor was talking about, and had pictures illustrating, how to diagnose werewolves. Good thing I'm not the type to ask questions in class.

This is so interesting. I think I must have those Hypnagogic Hallucinations at times. Do people with a REM/narcoleptic probs. have a history of sleep walking/talking or other things?

Someone mentioned a CD you can buy called Omega or something. I don't remember - but they say you listen to it as you sleep and it helps 'reset' your brain sleep patterns.

 

[LukeWhite]

This is so interesting. I think I must have those Hypnagogic Hallucinations at times. Do people with a REM/narcoleptic probs. have a history of sleep walking/talking or other things?

Someone mentioned a CD you can buy called Omega or something. I don't remember - but they say you listen to it as you sleep and it helps 'reset' your brain sleep patterns.

Hm, interesting point about the sleepwalking; I'd never thought about it much in relation to narcolepsy. More anecdotal stuff, but until my mid-teens, I'd sleepwalk pretty prodigiously, once unlocking the deadbolt on a hotel door, making my way down three floors, and walking a quarter of a mile outside before waking up. I wouldn't be surprised if the REM patterns had a lot to do with that.

Conversely, the classic cataplectic narcolepsy where you just keel over is associated with the muscular paralysis that one usually gets with REM. It's amazing to watch the videos of the folks who *don't* get the paralysis...very violent thrashing as they play out their dreams.

 

[gioia]

Hm, interesting point about the sleepwalking; I'd never thought about it much in relation to narcolepsy. More anecdotal stuff, but until my mid-teens, I'd sleepwalk pretty prodigiously, once unlocking the deadbolt on a hotel door, making my way down three floors, and walking a quarter of a mile outside before waking up. I wouldn't be surprised if the REM patterns had a lot to do with that.

Conversely, the classic cataplectic narcolepsy where you just keel over is associated with the muscular paralysis that one usually gets with REM. It's amazing to watch the videos of the folks who *don't* get the paralysis...very violent thrashing as they play out their dreams.

Very interesting... (brain cries: anything but Head & Neck!)...
I used to walk in my sleep too. I would usually go into my mom's room and carry on conversations with her and wake up toward the end. She didn't know I was sleeping at first. Sometimes now, I will wake up having started a stupid conversation with my husband like, " Why are the radishes piled up in the corner like that"? Well, in a non-specific way, this is related to Head & Neck. More appropriately: neuro. And I won't get that until next year so I better get some sleep in order to fall asleep tomorrow while I am studying Head and neck!!
🙂

Do people really use Ritalin to counter the daytime drowsiness?

 

[CMuRpHy]

i got this tea from trader joes (its a chain located on the west coast and the philly area) its called Royal Vitality, its non caffeinated and keeps you mad alert even after the longest streaks of staying up. I actually feel like my mind has been enhanced when i drink it. See if you can find any, its really great stuff. its made by Yogi Tea company so they may have a website or something.

 

[gioia]

i got this tea from trader joes (its a chain located on the west coast and the philly area) its called Royal Vitality, its non caffeinated and keeps you mad alert even after the longest streaks of staying up. I actually feel like my mind has been enhanced when i drink it. See if you can find any, its really great stuff. its made by Yogi Tea company so they may have a website or something.

Trader Joes Isn't too far from me (and I love their tea!), what does it taste like?? Some Yogi teas have licorice root (or something like that with a sweet after-taste) that I find hard to drink for long periods of time.... What are the 'active' ingredients????


🙂

 

[DOitright]

In undergrad I bought one of this big white dry erase boards and hung it on my wall...yeah it was a little nerdy...but it helped! and it made for something fun during parties (you have no idea the crap that would be written on there when i'd wake up in a drunked stuper!). I think standing up and using that as my writing surface helped me stay awake. It's easier to erase and repeat what you just did (helped a lot of o-chem)...and you get to save a couple trees. Try OfficeMax or Staples or someplace comparable.

I also find it helpful to be drinking something...for me it didn't matter if it was caffinated or not...just sipping on something helped!

And I'm a true believer that exercising really makes you less tired...gives you more energy! So try to as much as possible!

Good Luck! 😛