How to proceed in the event of not matching for residency?

[deleted562805]

Yep, they have their own separate match. And yeah, I figured that the fact I haven't heard back by now is a bad sign.

BTW, on the topic of residencies, I received rejection emails from 3 more programs I applied to the other day. The scary thing is, I only applied to community hospitals (besides the IHS programs) and a few VA hospitals. The only two programs out of the ~15 I applied to that have offered me an interview are the hospital network I worked as an intern at -- it's their policy to interview all current/former employees who apply anyways -- and some no-name community hospital that has a bad reputation for using residents as cheap labor and offers the bare-minimum amount of PTO (10 days, which includes sick days and holidays).

My stats aren't amazing, but you would think I would've at least gotten a few more interviews than that (3.8+ GPA, president of a campus organization, intern work experience in both inpatient and outpatient settings). It will be interesting to see what the match stats look like when they're published in March, as the competition is undoubtedly fierce.

Edited to add: one program I applied to stated in their rejection email that this was their most competitive application cycle ever: they received over 130 applications for 2 spots.

Hello Hedgehog32. Do you mind if I PM you in regards to residency programs.

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[Hedgehog32]

@pharmacy_sucks, what do you think of this program offered by Florida Tech?:

Computer Information Systems, M.S. | Florida Tech

The M.S. in Computer Information Systems emphasizes problem-solving, with attention to software and services, in emerging technologies on a variety of platforms

www.fit.edu

More detailed info:

Program: Computer Information Systems, M.S. - Florida Tech - Acalog ACMS™

View the Florida Tech University Catalog, which includes complete course descriptions for all classes from the five colleges.

catalog.fit.edu

I know it's technically not called a "computer science" degree, but would it qualify me for programming and software engineering positions just as well as a traditional MSCS? Could it actually be even more marketable than a traditional MSCS since the school's website for the program states that it also prepares students to work as computer and information systems managers? They're pretty flexible about pre-requisite courses, so I could probably get accepted to the program if my GPA is competitive enough.

 

[pharmacy_sucks]

@pharmacy_sucks, what do you think of this program offered by Florida Tech?:

Computer Information Systems, M.S. | Florida Tech

The M.S. in Computer Information Systems emphasizes problem-solving, with attention to software and services, in emerging technologies on a variety of platforms

www.fit.edu

More detailed info:

Program: Computer Information Systems, M.S. - Florida Tech - Acalog ACMS™

View the Florida Tech University Catalog, which includes complete course descriptions for all classes from the five colleges.

catalog.fit.edu

I know it's technically not called a "computer science" degree, but would it qualify me for programming and software engineering positions just as well as a traditional MSCS? Could it actually be even more marketable than a traditional MSCS since the school's website for the program states that it also prepares students to work as computer and information systems managers? They're pretty flexible about pre-requisite courses, so I could probably get accepted to the program if my GPA is competitive enough.

Looks like it is a fine program. It will probably help you land jobs, that should be no problem.

My only reservation is that school. Florida Tech lags behind in terms of reputation, and its CS program is ranked 100+ nationally. Degrees you completed will probably stay on resume throughout the entire professional life. So if you can, definitely think beyond the first job. What if you change your mind and want to work for FAANG eventually? What if you want to relocate to the west coast tech hubs, SF bay, LA or Seattle, 5-10 years later? Right? I hope you get what I am trying to say. Think beyond and don't settle for less. We have both kinda made the same mistake of letting complacency and the mentality of "job security" lead us to pharmacy in the first place, so don't make the same mistake twice.

The second URL you attached directed me to their curriculum, and it seems their curriculum is actually the prereqs other schools (Gatech, UIUC, UT Austin and ASU) ask for. That's not a deal-breaker though. But if their tuition is like more than 15k, I would probably suggest you look elsewhere. MCIT with a price tag of 26k is probably the most expensive CS program so far in this discussion. UIUC, ranked top 5 or maybe even top 3 nationally, costs 21k. ASU ~15k; UT Austin ~10k; Gatech ~6-7k. You see what I am trying to say here: if higher ranked programs cost less, so why not go for them when you can?

 

[Hedgehog32]

Looks like it is a fine program. It will probably help you land jobs, that should be no problem.

My only reservation is that school. Florida Tech lags behind in terms of reputation, and its CS program is ranked 100+ nationally. Degrees you completed will probably stay on resume throughout the entire professional life. So if you can, definitely think beyond the first job. What if you change your mind and want to work for FAANG eventually? What if you want to relocate to the west coast tech hubs, SF bay, LA or Seattle, 5-10 years later? Right? I hope you get what I am trying to say. Think beyond and don't settle for less. We have both kinda made the same mistake of letting complacency and the mentality of "job security" lead us to pharmacy in the first place, so don't make the same mistake twice.

The second URL you attached directed me to their curriculum, and it seems their curriculum is actually the prereqs other schools (Gatech, UIUC, UT Austin and ASU) ask for. That's not a deal-breaker though. But if their tuition is like more than 15k, I would probably suggest you look elsewhere. MCIT with a price tag of 26k is probably the most expensive CS program so far in this discussion. UIUC, ranked top 5 or maybe even top 3 nationally, costs 21k. ASU ~15k; UT Austin ~10k; Gatech ~6-7k. You see what I am trying to say here: if higher ranked programs cost less, so why not go for them when you can?

Yeah, I see what you mean. The only contingency with my situation is that I don't have a CS or hardcore math background, so I'm limited in regards to the number of masters programs I qualify to apply to (for example, UT Austin requires applicants to have a CS background as an eligibility criteria). That's why I was looking into the programs offered by U Penn, FIT, and Boston U -- they will consider applications from anyone with a bachelor's degree in any subject. I know that GA Tech doesn't require applicants to have a CS background, but I also read somewhere that the program is extremely challenging for students who don't have one. I haven't looked into ASU's or UIUC's programs yet.

I actually think that Boston U's program looks like a good option because it seems like its intention is to qualify students to work in a diverse variety of tech positions (not just coding/SE), but it's the most expensive program I've come across thus far ($50k+). I've posted the link to it before but I'll post it again, just in case you'd like to check it out:

Online Learning at Boston University

Boston University Online offers an online Master of Science in Computer Information Systems. Learn more.

www.bu.edu

 

[pharmacy_sucks]

One piece of advice: don't rush into any academic programs or bootcamps when you don't have to. I think you said you are not keen on getting a job immediately after graduation. So there is time to maneuver, which is nice. Even if you spend an entire year to finish all prereqs to get into a reputable program. It might still be worth it financially in the short term and definitely will be worth it in the long run. Remember, all of these programs we talked about are delivered online, so they don't restrict you physically to a specific geographic location. Once you start the program and list that on your resume or linkedin, you can find internships and work full-time. CS interns in SF bay are paid handsomely right now. Some are offering 8k to 12k a month. After a few internships, you can probably land a full-time job even before you officially graduate from that program. Overall, it is still a fairly quick career pivot and relatively smooth transition.

 

[pharmacy_sucks]

Master of Computer Science

courses.cpe.asu.edu

ASU CS masters allows anyone who don't have cs undergrad to take these prereq refresher courses and exams to count as prereqs when they apply. Check it out. ASU ranks slightly higher than BU, and it is also cheaper.

 

[gwarm01]

Yep. Apparently ASHP views informatics pharmacists as pharmacists that check emails not really software developers or programmers. ASHP actually looks down on Informatic pharmacists

I get a hell of a lot of email and I've never actually developed software or coded so they might be right. My job involves configuring software more than coding it, gigantic spreadsheets, and attending meeting after pointless meeting. Then occasionally a printer breaks.

 

[pharmacy_sucks]

I get a hell of a lot of email and I've never actually developed software or coded so they might be right. My job involves configuring software more than coding it, gigantic spreadsheets, and attending meeting after pointless meeting. Then occasionally a printer breaks.

I had an informatics rotation, and you are exactly right. I played with config tools and wrote a bunch of specifications for the IT group downstairs to implement whatever changes physicians or pharmacy want. The job feels like it should not be called "informatics" at all. It's more akin to UI/UX optimization lol.

The job was very chill though. I picked up arden syntax quickly and was fully prepared to write some MLMs when opportunities come. But damn, it never did, so I got bored and went downstairs to help one of the IT analysts write SQL queries.

 

[Hedgehog32]

Master of Computer Science

courses.cpe.asu.edu

ASU CS masters allows anyone who don't have cs undergrad to take these prereq refresher courses and exams to count as prereqs when they apply. Check it out. ASU ranks slightly higher than BU, and it is also cheaper.

Thanks, I'll check it out. Of course, ASU may be cheaper than BU or U Penn, but another perspective to look at it from is - would it be worth it to spend the extra money to graduate a 1 - 1.5 years sooner and not miss out on an extra year of income? At my age (30+) I really don't want to take anymore time than I absolutely have to in order to finally get settled in to a viable career. And to be honest, going on IBR/PAYE/REPAYE might be the most manageable repayment option at this point anyways, so attending a program that costs $15k-$25k wouldn't make much of a difference in a long-term sense (that is, until it comes time to pay the tax bomb in a couple decades).

I've wasted so much time that at this point, I really just want to get on track with something that offers long-term stability and viability as a career. IMO, the best-case scenario would be for me to get accepted to UPenn's program. I'm not particularly optimistic about my chances (especially if they're accepting MDs into the program), but it doesn't hurt to apply anyways.

 

[pharmacy_sucks]

Thanks, I'll check it out. Of course, ASU may be cheaper than BU or U Penn, but another perspective to look at it from is - would it be worth it to spend the extra money to graduate a 1 - 1.5 years sooner and not miss out on an extra year of income? At my age (30+) I really don't want to take anymore time than I absolutely have to in order to finally get settled in to a viable career. And to be honest, going on IBR/PAYE/REPAYE might be the most manageable repayment option at this point anyways, so attending a program that costs $15k-$25k wouldn't make much of a difference in a long-term sense (that is, until it comes time to pay the tax bomb in a couple decades).

I've wasted so much time that at this point, I really just want to get on track with something that offers long-term stability and viability as a career. IMO, the best-case scenario would be for me to get accepted to UPenn's program. I'm not particularly optimistic about my chances (especially if they're accepting MDs into the program), but it doesn't hurt to apply anyways.

How much student loan do you have?

 

[Hedgehog32]

How much student loan do you have?

I would rather not say, but I'm at a private school so it's a ****-ton.

 

[pharmacy_sucks]

Thanks, I'll check it out. Of course, ASU may be cheaper than BU or U Penn, but another perspective to look at it from is - would it be worth it to spend the extra money to graduate a 1 - 1.5 years sooner and not miss out on an extra year of income? At my age (30+) I really don't want to take anymore time than I absolutely have to in order to finally get settled in to a viable career. And to be honest, going on IBR/PAYE/REPAYE might be the most manageable repayment option at this point anyways, so attending a program that costs $15k-$25k wouldn't make much of a difference in a long-term sense (that is, until it comes time to pay the tax bomb in a couple decades).

I've wasted so much time that at this point, I really just want to get on track with something that offers long-term stability and viability as a career. IMO, the best-case scenario would be for me to get accepted to UPenn's program. I'm not particularly optimistic about my chances (especially if they're accepting MDs into the program), but it doesn't hurt to apply anyways.

I don't know if you have taken an accounting/finance or microeconomics course in the past or not. But if you know or heard of the concept of time value of money, it's fairly quick to figure out that even 20k-30k extra debt can cost you much more than that if you choose to amortize over a long time. That being said, it is often wise to not take on additional debt at the very beginning.

 

[Hedgehog32]

I don't know if you have taken an accounting/finance or microeconomics course in the past or not. But if you know or heard of the concept of time value of money, it's fairly quick to figure out that even 20k-30k extra debt can cost you much more than that if you choose to amortize over a long time. That being said, it is often wise to not take on additional debt at the very beginning.

I honestly don't think I have much of a choice at this point and would rather just take on a relatively small amount of additional debt to secure a much more promising future for myself as opposed to spending another year or two working some dead-end job for a pittance of an income and not making any progress. The debt sucks but I'm just going to have to deal with it. Aside from teaching myself coding, I don't think there's any way for me to transition into coding/SE/cybersecurity without taking on at least a small amount of additional debt. I'll just consider it to be an extra semester or two of pharmacy school tuition.

 

[pharmacy_sucks]

I would rather not say, but I'm at a private school so it's a ****-ton.

Ouch! But why did you want to go for residency if you have a lot of debt? Delaying income to chop down student loan debt early and quickly sounds like a terrible financial decision.

In that sense, BU program should be out of the question then, otherwise it will be like a financial suicide for years to come.

 

[pharmacy_sucks]

I honestly don't think I have much of a choice at this point and would rather just take on a relatively small amount of additional debt to secure a much more promising future for myself as opposed to spending another year or two working some dead-end job for a pittance of an income and not making any progress. The debt sucks but I'm just going to have to deal with it. Aside from teaching myself coding, I don't think there's any way for me to transition into coding/SE/cybersecurity without taking on at least a small amount of additional debt. I'll just consider it to be an extra semester or two of pharmacy school tuition.

At this point, I recommend you to take any pharmacy-related job you can find across the nation and start chopping down student loans immediately after graduation. Then in your spare time, you can work on cs prereqs, either online or thru community college. You can't afford to keep taking on any significant debt before keeping the current debt level down to a manageable degree.

 

[Hedgehog32]

Ouch! But why did you want to go for residency if you have a lot of debt? Delaying income to chop down student loan debt early and quickly sounds like a terrible financial decision.

In that sense, BU program should be out of the question then, otherwise it will be like a financial suicide for years to come.

Howso? If I go on IBR/PAYE/REPAYE, my payments will be 10% of my monthly income. In 20 years I'll have to pay taxes on the forgiven amount, though. Ironically enough, half the residents at the hospital I used to work at are all on one of those plans.

 

[Hedgehog32]

At this point, I recommend you to take any pharmacy-related job you can find across the nation and start chopping down student loans immediately after graduation. Then in your spare time, you can work on cs prereqs, either online or thru community college. You can't afford to keep taking on any significant debt before keeping the current debt level down to a manageable degree.

I get it, but I would rather start a CS program as soon as possible, start making tangible progress towards graduating, and work PRN as a pharmacist whenever it's feasible to do so. Now I wish I hadn't mentioned student loan debt, as I should've known that it would completely derail the thread away from its original purpose of discussing post-pharmacy backup plans to a completely different topic. It's unfortunate, but I appreciate the information you were able to give me on the various pathways to obtaining a SE career.

 

[pharmacy_sucks]

Howso? If I go on IBR/PAYE/REPAYE, my payments will be 10% of my monthly income. In 20 years I'll have to pay taxes on the forgiven amount, though. Ironically enough, half the residents at the hospital I used to work at are all on one of those plans.

That would be like 20 years of additional 10% income tax. It will have prolonged impact on your credit score, debt to income ratio, ability to save for down-payment and mortgage rate, if you ever want to settle down and start home ownership.

 

[Hedgehog32]

That would be like 20 years of additional 10% income tax. It will have prolonged impact on your credit score, debt to income ratio, ability to save for down-payment and mortgage rate, if you ever want to settle down and start home ownership.

Like I said, I'm just going to have to deal with the consequences of it all. Anyways, good luck with the program at GA Tech next fall.

 

[pharmacy_sucks]

Like I said, I'm just going to have to deal with the consequences of it all. Anyways, good luck with the program at GA Tech next fall.

Thanks. Actually starting this fall.

 

[deleted562805]

Yeah, I was told by the CVS DM I mentioned in my first post that they are officially not considering hiring ANY new graduates who didn't work as retail techs/interns during pharmacy school. I have been told that it's the same with other pharmacy chains.

That's part of my problem -- I only worked as an intern in the hospital setting and never for any chains, so if I don't get a residency position or find a hospital job somewhere in the country, I won't really be marketable for any traditional pharmacy jobs (unless I can get one of the other jobs I mentioned in my OP, like the temp agency assignments).

Also, look into Home Infusion Pharmacy and LTC Full time or PRN. They might give you a shot due to having hospital experience as a intern. If not, do your pre-reqs in CS and apply for CS internships as part of your work experience and jump from pharmacy all together. Heck, CS internships/Co-Ops probably pay better than pharmacy residency programs. Hopefully that is possible before you start Masters.

 

[Hedgehog32]

Also, look into Home Infusion Pharmacy and LTC Full time or PRN. They might give you a shot due to having hospital experience as a intern. If not, do your pre-reqs in CS and apply for CS internships as part of your work experience and jump from pharmacy all together. Heck, CS internships/Co-Ops probably pay better than pharmacy residency programs. Hopefully that is possible before you start Masters.

I guess it will depend on which programs I apply to; some of them (such as UPenn's and Boston U's programs) are direct-entry programs and don't require applicants to have any sort of CS background (including prerequisites) to be eligible to apply.

 

[deleted562805]

I guess it will depend on which programs I apply to; some of them (such as UPenn's and Boston U's programs) are direct-entry programs and don't require applicants to have any sort of CS background (including prerequisites) to be eligible to apply.

If that is the case, give it a shot, but once you are in. I would apply to internships at small Biotech companies or anywhere while you are in the program. It does not have to be Facebook or Apple etc. You can be a intern at Bloomberg media as a CS intern. In that way, you can apply school knowledge to work, and vice versa. In a addition to a good GPA, work experience is important for getting CS jobs or if you choose to do Masters in CS, even though the jobs are in demand.

However, in pharmacy, you are 100% dependent on your network to find a job.

 

[Hedgehog32]

If that is the case, give it a shot, but once you are in. I would apply to internships at small Biotech companies or anywhere while you are in the program. It does not have to be Facebook or Apple etc. You can be a intern at Bloomberg media as a CS intern. In that way, you can apply school knowledge to work, and vice versa. In a addition to a good GPA, work experience is important for getting CS jobs, even though the jobs are in demand.
However, in pharmacy, you are 100% dependent on your network to find a job.

That's a good point. I was planning to continue to live at home while I earn the CS degree (or do the bootcamp, whichever one I can get accepted to) to save money, but if I would actually be a serious contender for an internship position, it would be worth moving for that. There's only one tech company headquartered in my city (you probably know which one I'm talking about - starts with a "T") and I'm not sure if they hire interns. Even though it would save money to be able to just live at home, I definitely do want to move somewhere nicer sooner than later. My city sucks (I'm sure you know that since you live close by).

BTW, I agree with your suggestion to try and get an LTC or home infusion position. I actually think that something chill and predictable like an LTC job would be the perfect position for me, but I'm guessing every LTC job posting that isn't in absolute BFE (or maybe even those too) gets 40+ applicants within the first week or two of posting.

 

[deleted562805]

That's a good point. I was planning to continue to live at home while I earn the CS degree (or do the bootcamp, whichever one I can get accepted to) to save money, but if I would actually be a serious contender for an internship position, it would be worth moving for that. There's only one tech company headquartered in my city (you probably know which one I'm talking about - starts with a "T") and I'm not sure if they hire interns. Even though it would save money to be able to just live at home, I definitely do want to move somewhere nicer sooner than later. My city sucks (I'm sure you know that since you live close by).

BTW, I agree with your suggestion to try and get an LTC or home infusion position. I actually think that something chill and predictable like an LTC job would be the perfect position for me, but I'm guessing every LTC job posting that isn't in absolute BFE (or maybe even those too) gets 40+ applicants within the first week or two of posting.

Yeah, I just think CS engineer and software developer involves a lot of practical application, more so than pharmacy, which involves mostly memorization. The more you apply your knowledge in CS to real life work experience, the better you will be as a software developer/programmer. Plus, even though CS is in demand, having that CS internship will help you become competitive for jobs. Plus, what if you could hypothetically end up like new pharmacy grads with no pharmacy work experience. Everyone, I know who did CS had some kind of internship job in the summer.

For example, a cousin of mine completed his Masters in CS in SUNNY Buffalo NY. A decent program for CS, but not a top school like GA Tech. He worked as a CS intern during the summer in Bloomberg media, and he said he learned way more as a software/programmer in his intern job than at school. Also, his intern job at Bloomberg and plus completion of his Masters got him a job at Intel. He said the intern job helped him get a job at Intel more so than his decent grades in school. Now, with his two years of work experience at Intel, he is working for Amazon.

 

[Hedgehog32]

Yeah, I just think CS engineer and software developer involves a lot of practical application, more so than pharmacy, which involves mostly memorization. The more you apply your knowledge in CS to real life work experience, the better you will be as a software developer/programmer. Plus, even though CS is in demand, having that CS internship will help you become competitive for jobs. Plus, what if you could hypothetically end up like new pharmacy grads with no pharmacy work experience. Everyone, I know who did CS had some kind of internship job in the summer.

For example, a cousin of mine completed his Masters in CS in SUNNY Buffalo NY. A decent program for CS, but not a top school like GA Tech. He worked as a CS intern during the summer in Bloomberg media, and he said he learned way more as a software/programmer in his intern job than at school. Also, his intern job at Bloomberg and plus completion of his Masters got him a job at Intel. He said the intern job helped him get a job at Intel more so than his decent grades in school. Now, with his two years of work experience at Intel, he is working for Amazon.

Ok, I will definitely look into applying to internships (no idea how competitive they are to get) if I do end up pursuing CS as a plan B career. One of my cousins also works for Cisco as a network systems engineer (or something like that), so I might be able to get an "in" through him.

 

[deleted562805]

Ok, I will definitely look into applying to internships (no idea how competitive they are to get) if I do end up pursuing CS as a plan B career. One of my cousins also works for Cisco as a network systems engineer (or something like that), so I might be able to get an "in" through him.

Sounds good. Once you have an internship in any tech company or company that hires CS interns, and have good grades in a good/decent CS program. Any tech company will hire you that you want to work for. You won’t face the same situation like pharmacy jumping through more hoops ( i.e residency) to get your first job like you are experiencing in pharmacy despite having intern hospital experience and a good GPA.

 

[Hedgehog32]

Sounds good. Once you have an internship in any tech company or company that hires CS interns, and have good grades in a good/decent CS program. Any tech company will hire you that you want to work for. You won’t face the same situation like pharmacy jumping through more hoops ( i.e residency) to get your first job like you are experiencing in pharmacy despite having intern hospital experience and a good GPA.

I think the biggest thing that's discouraging about pharmacy is that it's gotten to the point where doing a residency has become a requirement to get a job in a rural/semi-rural area (even if it's not outright BFE). So it's like, even with the additional effort and training, most people are still going to have to face the reality of having to move somewhere they really don't want to live for at least a few years. Maybe I'll end up being too much of a dunce to handle CS/SWE, but it just sounds so appealing to spend another 1-2 years in school at the most and be presented with the exact opposite scenario that pharmacy is currently facing.

 

[PharmtoCS]

I think the biggest thing that's discouraging about pharmacy is that it's gotten to the point where doing a residency has become a requirement to get a job in a rural/semi-rural area (even if it's not outright BFE). So it's like, even with the additional effort and training, most people are still going to have to face the reality of having to move somewhere they really don't want to live for at least a few years. Maybe I'll end up being too much of a dunce to handle CS/SWE, but it just sounds so appealing to spend another 1-2 years in school at the most and be presented with the exact opposite scenario that pharmacy is currently facing.

Taking out another $10-30k in loans at this point is probably a drop in the bucket since you will likely make more than you ever will as a pharmacist, and is certainly a far better option than having to settle for reduced pay in retail hell where the vast majority end up.

 

[Hedgehog32]

Taking out another $10-30k in loans at this point is probably a drop in the bucket since you will likely make more than you ever will as a pharmacist, and is certainly a far better option than having to settle for reduced pay in retail hell where the vast majority end up.

That's pretty much how I was looking at it (although I would be happy to match what I would've made as a pharmacist). It's really not any different than attending an extra one or two semesters of pharmacy school. A handful of my classmates took the bait to sign up for one of the school's dual degree programs (MBA/MPH), and even the more expensive CS master's programs aren't cost as much as what those "add-on" programs cost.

 

[deleted562805]

That's pretty much how I was looking at it (although I would be happy to match what I would've made as a pharmacist). It's really not any different than attending an extra one or two semesters of pharmacy school. A handful of my classmates took the bait to sign up for one of the school's dual degree programs (MBA/MPH), and even the more expensive CS master's programs aren't cost as much as what those "add-on" programs cost.

MBA is useless unless you apply to Ivy League, as they have the best connections and will help potential students land a job in a banking firm or with respect to pharmacy, Big Pharma.

MPH to me is not useful unless you have a MPH at a top university, but even then, the pay is not great. The pay is 50k/yr. Most people use MPH as a stepping stone to go to medical school. I know one colleague who did MPH online along with Pharmacy. It did not do anything for her. She is a staff pharmacist at Walmart

CS is best ROI compared to MBA/MPH or even JD. JD degree has to be from Ivy League to get the best network to land you a job and Law in any other university will get you no job. Law is just as bad as pharmacy

 

[Gombrich12]

I think the biggest thing that's discouraging about pharmacy is that it's gotten to the point where doing a residency has become a requirement to get a job in a rural/semi-rural area (even if it's not outright BFE). So it's like, even with the additional effort and training, most people are still going to have to face the reality of having to move somewhere they really don't want to live for at least a few years. Maybe I'll end up being too much of a dunce to handle CS/SWE, but it just sounds so appealing to spend another 1-2 years in school at the most and be presented with the exact opposite scenario that pharmacy is currently facing.

I would say the most disappointing thing that most people are overlooking about pharmacy is this new era of no raises and declining salaries. With no raises the majority of pharmacists can reasonably expect to be making at a minimum %25 less in real dollars ten years from now. With CS/IT you can probably expect salaries in the field to at least follow inflation. Think about a new grad who comes out making $47/hr and never gets a raise. Fast forward 10 years to 2030, they are now 35 years old with 2 kids and a mortgage while effectively making $35/hr. It's insanity to go into a field where your real pay is going down every year while your needs for money are only going to go up as your family grows.

 

[Emmet2301]

OP-I know it's hard to find a Pharm position in a hospital but maybe you can try for a while before jumping ship to CS. Only jump if you know for sure that you don't want to do Pharmacy at all and would like CS.

I was similar when I graduated college and couldn't find a job for months. Freaked out a little and was looking for grad school programs to apply to. Luckily, I landed a position just a few months later.

Keep at it and best of luck.

 

[deleted562805]

I would say the most disappointing thing that most people are overlooking about pharmacy is this new era of no raises and declining salaries. With no raises the majority of pharmacists can reasonably expect to be making at a minimum %25 less in real dollars ten years from now. With CS/IT you can probably expect salaries in the field to at least follow inflation. Think about a new grad who comes out making $47/hr and never gets a raise. Fast forward 10 years to 2030, they are now 35 years old with 2 kids and a mortgage while effectively making $35/hr. It's insanity to go into a field where your real pay is going down every year while your needs for money are only going to go up as your family grows.

I would definitely delay dating, relationship ,and marriage if I am a pharmacist. Pharmacy is not a viable profession to help support a family

 

[pharmacy_sucks]

MBA is useless unless you apply to Ivy League, as they have the best connections and will help potential students land a job in a banking firm or with respect to pharmacy, Big Pharma.

MPH to me is not useful unless you have a MPH at a top university, but even then, the pay is not great. The pay is 50k/yr. Most people use MPH as a stepping stone to go to medical school. I know one colleague who did MPH online along with Pharmacy. It did not do anything for her. She is a staff pharmacist at Walmart

CS is best ROI compared to MBA/MPH or even JD. JD degree has to be from Ivy League to get the best network to land you a job and Law in any other university will get you no job. Law is just as bad as pharmacy

CS has the best ROI in the white collar world right now, maybe even beating MDs, unless it's orthopaedic surgery or other high paying specialty.

As we are heading into AI and automation age, CS will only become more and more in-demand as jobs are getting replaced by algorithms.

 

[pharmacy_sucks]

I would definitely delay dating, relationship ,and marriage if I am a pharmacist. Pharmacy is not a viable profession to help support a family

Working with a pharmacist today in outpatient. She has graduated for 7 years and still living with her parents lol.

 

[Hedgehog32]

I would say the most disappointing thing that most people are overlooking about pharmacy is this new era of no raises and declining salaries. With no raises the majority of pharmacists can reasonably expect to be making at a minimum %25 less in real dollars ten years from now. With CS/IT you can probably expect salaries in the field to at least follow inflation. Think about a new grad who comes out making $47/hr and never gets a raise. Fast forward 10 years to 2030, they are now 35 years old with 2 kids and a mortgage while effectively making $35/hr. It's insanity to go into a field where your real pay is going down every year while your needs for money are only going to go up as your family grows.

That's just the thing; if I do, in fact, decide to make the switch to CS, it won't be because I'm hoping or expecting to make some huge salary working a unicorn job at Google, Apple, Amazon, etc. I'm approaching it with the mindset of comparing it to what I'd otherwise be looking forward to earning (in terms of base compensation, raises, benefits, future opportunities to move to nicer cities, etc.) if I stick with pharmacy. That's why I said above that I won't need to get a job with Amazon or Google or Apple to feel like it was worth making the switch, because even a standard-issue CS job working at some unheard-of small company will still probably offer a better all-around deal than most pharmacist jobs seem to be offering.

 

[Hedgehog32]

OP-I know it's hard to find a Pharm position in a hospital but maybe you can try for a while before jumping ship to CS. Only jump if you know for sure that you don't want to do Pharmacy at all and would like CS.

I was similar when I graduated college and couldn't find a job for months. Freaked out a little and was looking for grad school programs to apply to. Luckily, I landed a position just a few months later.

Keep at it and best of luck.

Thanks. I will definitely keep an eye out for pharmacist jobs and apply to ones I think I'd qualify for, although I'm very close to deciding to transition my efforts into getting accepted into either a CS master's program or one of the more well-reputed bootcamps (even if I do apply to pharmacist jobs throughout the process).

 

[Hedgehog32]

CS has the best ROI in the white collar world right now, maybe even beating MDs, unless it's orthopaedic surgery or other high paying specialty.

As we are heading into AI and automation age, CS will only become more and more in-demand as jobs are getting replaced by algorithms.

If I'm looking at their website correctly, BU's online CIMS program will be starting a cohort on March 17th (and then another cohort on May 12th). The application deadline to matriculate with the March 17th cohort is February 15th. I will be done with my pharmacy school rotations by the end of the first week of March. Technically, this means that I could get my application materials together for BU's program, apply by February 15th, and potentially start a CS master's program about a week after I have finished pharmacy school rotations. I could show up to graduation having completed almost a full semester of CS school. The whole prospect of not wasting any time at all with making the transition to CS is very tempting.

 

[deleted562805]

If I'm looking at their website correctly, BU's online CIMS program will be starting a cohort on March 17th (and then another cohort on May 12th). The application deadline to matriculate with the March 17th cohort is February 15th. I will be done with my pharmacy school rotations by the end of the first week of March. Technically, this means that I could get my application materials together for BU's program, apply by February 15th, and potentially start a CS master's program about a week after I have finished pharmacy school rotations. I could show up to graduation having completed almost a full semester of CS school. The whole prospect of not wasting any time at all with making the transition to CS is very tempting.

Hedgehog32, I think if you are serious about CS. I would go all in and try to get into any CS program: Boston, UPenn, MIT, GAtech, Caltech etc.
You have tried every possible route in pharmacy to try to get a job. Applied for residencies and did not get matched in Phase1.
Contacted DMs in retail pharmacies, and hospital pharmacies about opportunities as a new grad.
No one is giving you a shot.
I would cut your losses after graduating pharmacy school and go get that CS degree.
In the words of Warren Buffet, put your eggs in one basket, but watch it like a hawk.

 

[Thestrugglez]

If I'm looking at their website correctly, BU's online CIMS program will be starting a cohort on March 17th (and then another cohort on May 12th). The application deadline to matriculate with the March 17th cohort is February 15th. I will be done with my pharmacy school rotations by the end of the first week of March. Technically, this means that I could get my application materials together for BU's program, apply by February 15th, and potentially start a CS master's program about a week after I have finished pharmacy school rotations. I could show up to graduation having completed almost a full semester of CS school. The whole prospect of not wasting any time at all with making the transition to CS is very tempting.

As a 2019 grad, I will say don't be discouraged that no DM is responding to you at the moment. The market is saturated and they're looking to fill current vacancies. However, the turnover in pharmacy is high and companies are always losing employees and hiring new ones. I had 0 offers before I graduated and employers only started looking at my resume after I got licensed in my state. Neither did (almost all) of my friends who did not do fellowship/residency. Now, all my friends have FT jobs (except two, but one is about to get a FT offer) in major cities. I even know 3 people in my class who got FT hospital staffing positions at top 10 major metropolitan hospitals and others who got positions at smaller hospitals with no residency. It really is about knowing the right person, being there at the right time, and showing a passion/drive. Training employees is expensive so the person with the most experience/best resume isn't what companies will necessary want. Companies also consider things such as willingness to put in the effort and the right attitude.

OP, as someone who considered doing a CS masters after recently graduating pharmacy school in 2019, I would strongly recommend working as a pharmacist first (even if PRN/per diem) and trying out CS to see if you like it. I really wanted to like CS due to the high salaries, benefits, and work life balance. My spouse makes more than me working as a DS with a masters degree than I do as a PIC. However, I tried CS and honestly did not enjoy it. I was not interested in coding all day, but thoroughly enjoy the business aspect of pharmacy. Will I do pharmacy forever? Maybe, maybe not. However, throwing yourself into CS just because pharmacy doesn't seem to be working out before you even work as a pharmacist isn't the best choice.

 

[pharmacy_sucks]

If I'm looking at their website correctly, BU's online CIMS program will be starting a cohort on March 17th (and then another cohort on May 12th). The application deadline to matriculate with the March 17th cohort is February 15th. I will be done with my pharmacy school rotations by the end of the first week of March. Technically, this means that I could get my application materials together for BU's program, apply by February 15th, and potentially start a CS master's program about a week after I have finished pharmacy school rotations. I could show up to graduation having completed almost a full semester of CS school. The whole prospect of not wasting any time at all with making the transition to CS is very tempting.

If you can start early, why not? Deadline is Feb 15, so that's like 2 weeks away. You got to scramble for transcript, references and other supporting documents tho.

 

[pharmacy_sucks]

That's just the thing; if I do, in fact, decide to make the switch to CS, it won't be because I'm hoping or expecting to make some huge salary working a unicorn job at Google, Apple, Amazon, etc. I'm approaching it with the mindset of comparing it to what I'd otherwise be looking forward to earning (in terms of base compensation, raises, benefits, future opportunities to move to nicer cities, etc.) if I stick with pharmacy. That's why I said above that I won't need to get a job with Amazon or Google or Apple to feel like it was worth making the switch, because even a standard-issue CS job working at some unheard-of small company will still probably offer a better all-around deal than most pharmacist jobs seem to be offering.

graduating from a decent cs program + several years of working exp under your belt, getting a job with Amazon, Google, Apple, Microsoft, and Tesla is not a distant dream, but a reality many software engineers nowadays can relate to.

btw, Microsoft, Apple and Tesla stocks have almost doubled over last 2 years, and look at Walgreens and CVS, nice 30-50% haircut and steady downward trend in a gold-rush economy

 

[mentos]

Working with a pharmacist today in outpatient. She has graduated for 7 years and still living with her parents lol.

So she's made like $1 million in 7 years with free rent and can't afford her own place yet?

 

[Sine Cura]

Living at home is a smart play to save money especially if not paying rent or helping out with mortgage payments. Living with one's parents would carry far greater social stigma for men vs women however.

 

[pharmacy_sucks]

So she's made like $1 million in 7 years with free rent and can't afford her own place yet?

tax + high COL + student loan, and she wants to save for down payment.

 

[Gombrich12]

That's just the thing; if I do, in fact, decide to make the switch to CS, it won't be because I'm hoping or expecting to make some huge salary working a unicorn job at Google, Apple, Amazon, etc. I'm approaching it with the mindset of comparing it to what I'd otherwise be looking forward to earning (in terms of base compensation, raises, benefits, future opportunities to move to nicer cities, etc.) if I stick with pharmacy. That's why I said above that I won't need to get a job with Amazon or Google or Apple to feel like it was worth making the switch, because even a standard-issue CS job working at some unheard-of small company will still probably offer a better all-around deal than most pharmacist jobs seem to be offering.

This is the right attitude, look at where you want to be in 5-10 years, not which field has a higher salary now. CS is much more likely to be able to carry you 30-40 years to retirement than pharmacy. Say you choose pharmacy and end up having to leave the field after 10 years because it is no longer viable. Those 10 years spent in pharmacy probably will mean nothing to whatever field you go into next. The same can't be said for CS where the skills are transferable if you can communicate well and get along with others.

 

[mentos]

tax + high COL + student loan, and she wants to save for down payment.

How big of a down payment does she need? She must have taken home close to $100,000 a year.

 

[pharmacy_sucks]

How big of a down payment does she need? She must have taken home close to $100,000 a year.

She went to a private college + private pharm school. think of the expensive ones, like usc. 8 years of that >= mortgage.

 

[mentos]

She went to a private college + private pharm school. think of the expensive ones, like usc. 8 years of that >= mortgage.

Hope it was worth it.