How to proceed in the event of not matching for residency?

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As a 2019 grad, I will say don't be discouraged that no DM is responding to you at the moment. The market is saturated and they're looking to fill current vacancies. However, the turnover in pharmacy is high and companies are always losing employees and hiring new ones. I had 0 offers before I graduated and employers only started looking at my resume after I got licensed in my state. Neither did (almost all) of my friends who did not do fellowship/residency. Now, all my friends have FT jobs (except two, but one is about to get a FT offer) in major cities. I even know 3 people in my class who got FT hospital staffing positions at top 10 major metropolitan hospitals and others who got positions at smaller hospitals with no residency. It really is about knowing the right person, being there at the right time, and showing a passion/drive. Training employees is expensive so the person with the most experience/best resume isn't what companies will necessary want. Companies also consider things such as willingness to put in the effort and the right attitude.

OP, as someone who considered doing a CS masters after recently graduating pharmacy school in 2019, I would strongly recommend working as a pharmacist first (even if PRN/per diem) and trying out CS to see if you like it. I really wanted to like CS due to the high salaries, benefits, and work life balance. My spouse makes more than me working as a DS with a masters degree than I do as a PIC. However, I tried CS and honestly did not enjoy it. I was not interested in coding all day, but thoroughly enjoy the business aspect of pharmacy. Will I do pharmacy forever? Maybe, maybe not. However, throwing yourself into CS just because pharmacy doesn't seem to be working out before you even work as a pharmacist isn't the best choice.

Thanks for the advice. For the record (not that it really matters), but I was actually primarily contacting pharmacy directors at hospital networks as well as individual hospitals all over the country, in addition to recruiters. I was never interested in retail, so I didn't contact any retail DMs. I actually did receive a number of responses from the people I contacted, and that's what made me start worrying; pretty much all of them said that even if they did have openings, they were no longer considering hiring non-residency-trained pharmacists due to receiving so many applications in recent years from residency-trained pharmacists. This was even the case for hospitals in places like Bethel, AK.

I will definitely do a free course in coding to make sure it's something I can see myself doing professional for the rest of my life. I will also try to get a PRN job as a hospital pharmacist, but sadly enough, I'm not exaggerating when I say that even PRN jobs are insanely hard to get these days in my area (Rx1992 can back me up on this). The good news is that most of the software engineering MS programs I've been looking at will allow students to enroll on a part-time basis, so I could take one class per semester for the first one or two semesters while I try to at least get a PRN job in pharmacy. Then if things still don't work out with pharmacy, I can just go all-in on the software engineering program and transition to full-time status. I'm assuming (?) I would also qualify for a software engineering student intern job at that point.

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graduating from a decent cs program + several years of working exp under your belt, getting a job with Amazon, Google, Apple, Microsoft, and Tesla is not a distant dream, but a reality many software engineers nowadays can relate to.

btw, Microsoft, Apple and Tesla stocks have almost doubled over last 2 years, and look at Walgreens and CVS, nice 30-50% haircut and steady downward trend in a gold-rush economy :rolleyes:

Eventually getting a job at one of those companies sounds awesome, although I was just trying to be realistic LOL. Just curious, if I apply and get accepted to the MCIT programs at UPenn or BU or FIT (least appealing choice due to low school ranking), when would I be considered qualified to get a job as an intern?
 
Eventually getting a job at one of those companies sounds awesome, although I was just trying to be realistic LOL. Just curious, if I apply and get accepted to the MCIT programs at UPenn or BU or FIT (least appealing choice due to low school ranking), when would I be considered qualified to get a job as an intern?
maybe not immediately, but after 5-6 courses sounds like a good point to start internship.
 
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CS has the best ROI in the white collar world right now, maybe even beating MDs, unless it's orthopaedic surgery or other high paying specialty.

As we are heading into AI and automation age, CS will only become more and more in-demand as jobs are getting replaced by algorithms.
CS probably beats Family Medicine.
 
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maybe not immediately, but after 5-6 courses sounds like a good point to start internship.

I checked on job posting websites like Indeed.com, and there aren't any CS intern positions posted by any local companies. Ironically, I think this is actually a good thing, because over the last few years I have started to realize how much I'd like to eventually (sooner rather than later) move to a nicer, larger city. Of course, we all know that has become a very difficult thing to do these days as a pharmacist (then again, when I started pharmacy school in 2016, I thought I would be happy living in my hometown for the rest of my life). Maybe it's a case of the "grass is greener" mentality, but on the surface at least, it seems like CS might be a better fit long-term with respect to how my mindset has changed in terms of where I want to be able to live in the future and the type of lifestyle I'd like to be able to have.
 
I checked on job posting websites like Indeed.com, and there aren't any CS intern positions posted by any local companies. Ironically, I think this is actually a good thing, because over the last few years I have started to realize how much I'd like to eventually (sooner rather than later) move to a nicer, larger city. Of course, we all know that has become a very difficult thing to do these days as a pharmacist (then again, when I started pharmacy school in 2016, I thought I would be happy living in my hometown for the rest of my life). Maybe it's a case of the "grass is greener" mentality, but on the surface at least, it seems like CS might be a better fit long-term with respect to how my mindset has changed in terms of where I want to be able to live in the future and the type of lifestyle I'd like to be able to have.
CS jobs are geographically distributed very unevenly, believe it or not. You may find some local companies hiring interns here and there, but unlike pharmacy, a lot more CS internships are in the tech hubs, the exact metropolitan areas pharmacists are struggling so hard to get a job at. I did a quick indeed search for "CS intern", with area set to "California". and 122 postings popped up, with vast majority from SF bay area companies.

Normally, IT firms recruit interns and post openings directly thru their target schools career services, or maybe on linkedin, but not so much on Indeed. That's why it is important to attend a target school. I chose Gatech mostly because of its alumni network, career services, and career fairs. The career fairs and tech recruiting are like year-round, all major ones and computer science specific ones. As far as I know, Facebook had like 3 campus information sessions and recruiting events in the last 5-6 months or so, and a whole bunch of companies hosted theirs every month. Epic systems showed up twice and had to defer their application deadline. I guess they didn't get enough applicants lol.
 
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CS jobs are geographically distributed very unevenly, believe it or not. You may find some local companies hiring interns here and there, but unlike pharmacy, a lot more CS internships are in the tech hubs, the exact metropolitan areas pharmacists are struggling so hard to get a job at. I did a quick indeed search for "CS intern", with area set to "California". and 122 postings popped up, with vast majority from SF bay area companies.

Normally, IT firms recruit interns and post openings directly thru their target schools career services, or maybe on linkedin, but not so much on Indeed. That's why it is important to attend a target school. I chose Gatech mostly because of its alumni network, career services, and career fairs. The career fairs and tech recruiting are like year-round, all major ones and computer science specific ones. As far as I know, Facebook had like 3 campus information sessions and recruiting events in the last 5-6 months or so, and a whole bunch of companies hosted theirs every month. Epic systems showed up twice and had to defer their application deadline. I guess they didn't get enough applicants lol.

Sounds like CS students have it made right now. Hopefully Boston U has a good internship/hiring network, in case I end up attending their program. I know that U Penn would be a better choice but with only ~10% of applicants being accepted, I don't have high hopes for it.
 
I checked on job posting websites like Indeed.com, and there aren't any CS intern positions posted by any local companies. Ironically, I think this is actually a good thing, because over the last few years I have started to realize how much I'd like to eventually (sooner rather than later) move to a nicer, larger city. Of course, we all know that has become a very difficult thing to do these days as a pharmacist (then again, when I started pharmacy school in 2016, I thought I would be happy living in my hometown for the rest of my life). Maybe it's a case of the "grass is greener" mentality, but on the surface at least, it seems like CS might be a better fit long-term with respect to how my mindset has changed in terms of where I want to be able to live in the future and the type of lifestyle I'd like to be able to have.
Grass isn't always greener on the other side, and every career has its ups and downs. We are now living in the digital and tech boom age, so we just need to adapt. Doing nothing and praying for the best just isn't my thing, whether the pharmacist job market rebounds or not. I want to be in control of how my life goes.

I hope I can still use this PharmD degree someday. Maybe I will work for pharma companies on personalized health data stuff, or insurance companies to help them squeeze more $$$ out of CVS & Walgreens bastards, or maybe the supply chain, like McKesson, or Amazon, Alphabet, Microsoft to help them invade the healthcare business. Heck, maybe I will team up with some of my friends to get this "pharmacy in cloud" idea going and sell it to Amazon for $1 billion like Pillpack did. The endless possibilities excite me, and I am looking forward to it, thanks more to CS than pharmacy.
 
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Grass isn't always greener on the other side, and every career has its ups and downs. We are now living in the digital and tech boom age, so we just need to adapt. Doing nothing and praying for the best just isn't my thing, whether the pharmacist job market rebounds or not. I want to be in control of how my life goes.

I hope I can still use this PharmD degree someday. Maybe I will work for pharma companies on personalized health data stuff, or insurance companies to help them squeeze more $$$ out of CVS & Walgreens bastards, or maybe the supply chain, like McKesson, or Amazon, Alphabet, Microsoft to help them invade the healthcare business. Heck, maybe I will team up with some of my friends to get this "pharmacy in cloud" idea going and sell it to Amazon for $1 billion like Pillpack did. The endless possibilities excite me, and I am looking forward to it, thanks more to CS than pharmacy.

I was also thinking over the last few days of ways I could potentially leverage both my Pharm.D. and (eventual) comp sci/SWE master's degree to make myself even more competitive in the job market. Someone suggested that I look into specializing in data science with a healthcare niche. I would also be interested in working with a startup; the risks of involving myself with such a venture don't bother me, because it would at least be an opportunity to make more progress in life than I'm making now. Sure, there's a risk that the startup will fail and I'll lose my job and be left with shares of a stock that are suddenly worthless, but that can happen with any position (such as my pharmacy intern job I got fired from a couple months ago).

BTW, I know you said before that school rankings matter when it comes to getting an intern job as a CS student. If I attend a low-ranked program such as FIT, would that totally destroy my chances of getting hired as a student intern?

I'm not worried about working in SF, NYC, or some other huge metropolis; considering that I've been faced with the likely reality of having to start my pharmacy career in a middle-of-nowhere town (even if I complete a residency), I'd be happy to get an intern job in pretty much anywhere that isn't BFE.
 
I was also thinking over the last few days of ways I could potentially leverage both my Pharm.D. and (eventual) comp sci/SWE master's degree to make myself even more competitive in the job market. Someone suggested that I look into specializing in data science with a healthcare niche. I would also be interested in working with a startup; the risks of involving myself with such a venture don't bother me, because it would at least be an opportunity to make more progress in life than I'm making now. Sure, there's a risk that the startup will fail and I'll lose my job and be left with shares of a stock that are suddenly worthless, but that can happen with any position (such as my pharmacy intern job I got fired from a couple months ago).

BTW, I know you said before that school rankings matter when it comes to getting an intern job as a CS student. If I attend a low-ranked program such as FIT, would that totally destroy my chances of getting hired as a student intern?

I'm not worried about working in SF, NYC, or some other huge metropolis; considering that I've been faced with the likely reality of having to start my pharmacy career in a middle-of-nowhere town (even if I complete a residency), I'd be happy to get an intern job in pretty much anywhere that isn't BFE.
Data science and pharm can actually mix pretty nicely, as far as I can tell. I also got into the Gatech OMS Analytics program, which shares a ton of common CS and stats courses in machine learning, artificial intelligence, bayesian statistics etc. But I felt HRs are probably more familiar with computer science , so I went with that. But without a doubt, data science itself has a lot of positions available, especially in niche fields that require some domain knowledge. Even Walgreens and CVS are hiring a bunch of data science interns :rolleyes:

Data science is maturing from a generalist approach to a more domain-specific one. Having appropriate industry-specific knowledge will definitely make someone stand out from both data science and pharm candidate pools. But the issue is, computer science people are gunning for top IT firms like FAANG, and pharmacy people are too busy fighting for their hours and jobs etc. Very few actually crossed over so far, and data science requires both math and computer science proficiency. But if you do manage to cross over, I can't see why you can't get a data-centric healthcare niche job anywhere from pharma/biotech, pharmaceutical supply chain & distribution, insurance, PBMs, hospitals, and lastly CVS and Walgreens that are probably working on an "optimized" way of prioritizing their resources and capital to get better returns on investment.
 
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I was also thinking over the last few days of ways I could potentially leverage both my Pharm.D. and (eventual) comp sci/SWE master's degree to make myself even more competitive in the job market. Someone suggested that I look into specializing in data science with a healthcare niche. I would also be interested in working with a startup; the risks of involving myself with such a venture don't bother me, because it would at least be an opportunity to make more progress in life than I'm making now. Sure, there's a risk that the startup will fail and I'll lose my job and be left with shares of a stock that are suddenly worthless, but that can happen with any position (such as my pharmacy intern job I got fired from a couple months ago).

BTW, I know you said before that school rankings matter when it comes to getting an intern job as a CS student. If I attend a low-ranked program such as FIT, would that totally destroy my chances of getting hired as a student intern?

I'm not worried about working in SF, NYC, or some other huge metropolis; considering that I've been faced with the likely reality of having to start my pharmacy career in a middle-of-nowhere town (even if I complete a residency), I'd be happy to get an intern job in pretty much anywhere that isn't BFE.
Regarding startups, many CS guys working for them are mostly using them as a springboard to polish their coding skills, pad resume and building projects, before landing their dream jobs at FAANG. Unless someone slacks off and refuses to learn, there is very little risk career-wise. It's usually an upward career trajectory from there, not downward. Unicorn startups like Airbnb, Uber and Lyft before IPO were attracting cream of the crop cs grads from top schools, cuz they had sufficient funding to compete with FAANG and pay top dollars. Some of them may be more competitive to get in than FAANG.
 
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I was also thinking over the last few days of ways I could potentially leverage both my Pharm.D. and (eventual) comp sci/SWE master's degree to make myself even more competitive in the job market. Someone suggested that I look into specializing in data science with a healthcare niche. I would also be interested in working with a startup; the risks of involving myself with such a venture don't bother me, because it would at least be an opportunity to make more progress in life than I'm making now. Sure, there's a risk that the startup will fail and I'll lose my job and be left with shares of a stock that are suddenly worthless, but that can happen with any position (such as my pharmacy intern job I got fired from a couple months ago).

BTW, I know you said before that school rankings matter when it comes to getting an intern job as a CS student. If I attend a low-ranked program such as FIT, would that totally destroy my chances of getting hired as a student intern?

I'm not worried about working in SF, NYC, or some other huge metropolis; considering that I've been faced with the likely reality of having to start my pharmacy career in a middle-of-nowhere town (even if I complete a residency), I'd be happy to get an intern job in pretty much anywhere that isn't BFE.
Attending a lower-ranked school might hurt your chances landing lucrative offers from top companies straight out of school. It can set you back for maybe 3-5 years. After that, work experiences will matter more than where you went to school. Attending a good school will attract more recruiter calls and more opportunities for sure. But there is hope for grads from lower-ranked schools. They want to work for FAANG, which will validate their skills on resume so that HRs can focus more on who they worked for rather than where they went to school.
 
I was also thinking over the last few days of ways I could potentially leverage both my Pharm.D. and (eventual) comp sci/SWE master's degree to make myself even more competitive in the job market. Someone suggested that I look into specializing in data science with a healthcare niche. I would also be interested in working with a startup; the risks of involving myself with such a venture don't bother me, because it would at least be an opportunity to make more progress in life than I'm making now. Sure, there's a risk that the startup will fail and I'll lose my job and be left with shares of a stock that are suddenly worthless, but that can happen with any position (such as my pharmacy intern job I got fired from a couple months ago).

BTW, I know you said before that school rankings matter when it comes to getting an intern job as a CS student. If I attend a low-ranked program such as FIT, would that totally destroy my chances of getting hired as a student intern?

I'm not worried about working in SF, NYC, or some other huge metropolis; considering that I've been faced with the likely reality of having to start my pharmacy career in a middle-of-nowhere town (even if I complete a residency), I'd be happy to get an intern job in pretty much anywhere that isn't BFE.
If you do make the career switch, trust me, you probably have to relocate to huge metro cities for gainful employment, unless you purposely want to stay at BFE, whether for pharmacy or not.
 
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Attending a lower-ranked school might hurt your chances landing lucrative offers from top companies straight out of school. It can set you back for maybe 3-5 years. After that, work experiences will matter more than where you went to school. Attending a good school will attract more recruiter calls and more opportunities for sure. But there is hope for grads from lower-ranked schools. They want to work for FAANG, which will validate their skills on resume so that HRs can focus more on who they worked for rather than where they went to school.

What's your opinion on this program?:


On their website, it states they're an "Apple Distinguished School," but I don't know if that actually holds any significance. I like that their program can be finished in 12 months, and it also doesn't require applicants to have a CS background.

BTW, I looked into data science programs as well, but it looks like applicants have to have very strong math backgrounds in order to be considered for admission. I'm thinking CS is probably the safer (as well as more marketable/well-rounded) choice overall.

Just to keep track of them, so far these are the programs I've found that offer CS degrees that are geared towards applicants with no CS background: UPenn, Boston U, FIT, and Maryville U. Going to continue researching to see if there any others out there.
 
What's your opinion on this program?:


On their website, it states they're an "Apple Distinguished School," but I don't know if that actually holds any significance. I like that their program can be finished in 12 months, and it also doesn't require applicants to have a CS background.

BTW, I looked into data science programs as well, but it looks like applicants have to have very strong math backgrounds in order to be considered for admission. I'm thinking CS is probably the safer (as well as more marketable/well-rounded) choice overall.

Just to keep track of them, so far these are the programs I've found that offer CS degrees that are geared towards applicants with no CS background: UPenn, Boston U, FIT, and Maryville U. Going to continue researching to see if there any others out there.
Rice University also recently made its MCS program online. I took a CS course under Scott Rixner, the faculty director. He is so good. The program is quite expensive, but I think it is a very nice program, in terms of challenging yourself academically.
 
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If you do make the career switch, trust me, you probably have to relocate to huge metro cities for gainful employment, unless you purposely want to stay at BFE, whether for pharmacy or not.

The dichotomy that becomes apparent when comparing the job markets for CS professionals and pharmacists is really just astounding to me. It's crazy to think that I could be 1-2 years away from getting a CS job in a desirable large metro, whereas even residency-trained grads are experiencing difficulty landing pharmacist jobs even just in undesirable small cities like mine.

Of course, that brings up another good point, which is that I need to make sure I'm going to be making the switch for the right reasons and not just because the CS job market is in a different plane of existence than pharmacy's. Right now I kind of feel like I'm in the "honeymoon" phase where I'm excited to possibly be on the cusp of pursuing a career that seems to offer a better deal than pharmacy in virtually every capacity, but I think it would be a mistake to actually enroll in a CS master's program or bootcamp without at least starting a free online coding course to make sure I enjoy it and am smart enough to actually learn how to do the work.
 
The dichotomy that becomes apparent when comparing the job markets for CS professionals and pharmacists is really just astounding to me. It's crazy to think that I could be 1-2 years away from getting a CS job in a desirable large metro, whereas even residency-trained grads are experiencing difficulty landing pharmacist jobs even just in undesirable small cities like mine.

Of course, that brings up another good point, which is that I need to make sure I'm going to be making the switch for the right reasons and not just because the CS job market is in a different plane of existence than pharmacy's. Right now I kind of feel like I'm in the "honeymoon" phase where I'm excited to possibly be on the cusp of pursuing a career that seems to offer a better deal than pharmacy in virtually every capacity, but I think it would be a mistake to actually enroll in a CS master's program or bootcamp without at least starting a free online coding course to make sure I enjoy it and am smart enough to actually learn how to do the work.
For the startlingly contrast between job environment and prospects between CS and pharmacy, I would have to blame the American STEM education, especially for the "TEM" part. My undergrad major actually required us, as part of graduation requirement, to take all math from calculus I all the way to linear algebra and differential equation. For that, I would be forever grateful to my alma mater, even though I didn't like differential equation at all, and I was literally forced to take it. My biology & biochem major friends got their easy way out of math, and calculus I and II was enough.
 
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The dichotomy that becomes apparent when comparing the job markets for CS professionals and pharmacists is really just astounding to me. It's crazy to think that I could be 1-2 years away from getting a CS job in a desirable large metro, whereas even residency-trained grads are experiencing difficulty landing pharmacist jobs even just in undesirable small cities like mine.

Of course, that brings up another good point, which is that I need to make sure I'm going to be making the switch for the right reasons and not just because the CS job market is in a different plane of existence than pharmacy's. Right now I kind of feel like I'm in the "honeymoon" phase where I'm excited to possibly be on the cusp of pursuing a career that seems to offer a better deal than pharmacy in virtually every capacity, but I think it would be a mistake to actually enroll in a CS master's program or bootcamp without at least starting a free online coding course to make sure I enjoy it and am smart enough to actually learn how to do the work.
yup, you are right. Better to try out a few cs courses to see actually you enjoy it before signing up for the real deal. The worst career dilemma is actually the golden-handcuff scenario: you are paid handsomely to do a job you don't like, but can't leave cuz you want the pay.
 
For the startlingly contrast between job environment and prospects between CS and pharmacy, I would have to blame the American STEM education, especially for the "TEM" part. My undergrad major actually required us, as part of graduation requirement, to take all math from calculus I all the way to linear algebra and differential equation. For that, I would be forever grateful for my alma mater, even though I didn't like differential equation at all, and I was literally forced to take it. My biology & biochem major friends got their easy way out of math, and calculus I and II was enough.

The most advanced math class I have taken is Applied Calculus, so I hope that doesn't hurt my chances of getting accepted to one of these CS programs. Guess I'll find out the hard way.
yup, you are right. Better to try out a few cs courses to see actually you enjoy it before signing up for the real deal. The worst career dilemma is actually the golden-handcuff scenario: you are paid handsomely to do a job you don't like, but can't leave cuz you want the pay.

Hey, it can't be worse than working as a pharmacist for CVS, right?

BTW, did you get a chance to check out Maryville University's program that I posted the link to? Do you think it sounds like a good backup program to apply to if I don't get accepted to UPenn's or Boston U's programs?
 
The most advanced math class I have taken is Applied Calculus, so I hope that doesn't hurt my chances of getting accepted to one of these CS programs. Guess I'll find out the hard way.


Hey, it can't be worse than working as a pharmacist for CVS, right?

BTW, did you get a chance to check out Maryville University's program that I posted the link to? Do you think it sounds like a good backup program to apply to if I don't get accepted to UPenn's or Boston U's programs?
Believe it or not, I have met some of my so passionate classmates who seemingly love pharmacy to death. They were the ones who dissed me the HARDEST back then.

Regarding Maryville, I would say don't do it. I have never heard of that school, and I think even FIT will probably beat it hands-down.
 
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Hey, it can't be worse than working as a pharmacist for CVS, right?

Even some of the worst IT / software engineering jobs would be considered unicorn jobs to most pharmacists, especially those stuck working at big box retailers.
 
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Well.....this thread turned out to be quite the CS circle jerk.....

That wasn't my intention. I think it just sort of inadvertently happened after the prospect of abandoning pharmacy to pursue CS provoked me to research the job market, cost of schooling, cities where new grads are able to find jobs, etc. for CS, which then inevitably led me to making side-by-side comparisons of the same stats to the pharmacy profession. It's just striking to me how much of a stark dichotomy exists between the state of both profession's. They truly are at polar opposites to one another (for the time being, at least), assuming all the pro-CS banter is objective and factual.

That's another thing; before I commit to making a life decision as significant as switching career paths, I do want to make sure that grass really is, in fact, greener on the other side. As it stands now and based on everything I've read and been told thus far, there's undoubtedly a too-good-to-be-true feeling settled in the back of my mind, which is why I'm wondering what the catch has to be (e.g., is the work itself insanely difficult?, is the field experiencing a short-term burst of rapid growth a la pharmacy circa 2004?, and so on). Then again, maybe it's not too good to be true and they just have it made.
 
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Well.....this thread turned out to be quite the CS circle jerk.....
At least, that's some productive commitment towards a promising direction, which will help him/her land a job to pay bills and hopefully better life style. What else do you suggest him/her to do at this point instead? Keep beating the dead pharmacy residency horse next year or applying blindly to every single BFE hospital across the nation, praying to get an interview?
 
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@pharmacy_sucks I actually just realized something; in addition to the MCIS program, BU also offers a specific MS in Software Development. Do you think that would be a better degree to pursue from a marketability standpoint? Here's a link to the program website:


For comparison, here's the link to their MCIS program:


I could be wrong, but it kind of looks like the MCIS is more of an IT generalist degree, while the MS in Software Development is basically a software engineering degree. Would you say that assessment is correct?
 
What else do you suggest him/her to do at this point instead? Keep beating the dead pharmacy residency horse next year or applying blindly to every single BFE hospital across the nation, praying to get an interview?
Essentially, yes!! That was my original advise and I'm sticking to it. If OP doesn't want to work retail (which I don't blame them), that's their only shot at working hospital. (but they should also look into other areas of pharmacy such as PBM, LTC, etc.).
Not to be a jerk, but OP has essentially shot themselves in the foot here. If I remember right, they went to a private school which means they took out 200K+ in loans and now they're considering taking out more loans to do a CS degree? At yet another private school? Yes federal loans can be forgiven after 20 years of on time payments, but I doubt they took out only federal loans and probably have a pretty penny in private loans. It just doesn't make any sense to me.
is the field experiencing a short-term burst of rapid growth a la pharmacy circa 2004?, and so on
My guess is yes. Honestly CS seems like a field that can very easily be outsourced to other countries for a much cheaper rate. I mean it is all done online. When looking for a career, you should make sure that it's not a career that can be outsourced or automated. Everyone keeps thinking that pharmacy will be automated eventually, but there's laws in place to prevent that. Every single medication order (minus a few exceptions such as ER orders) require a pharmacist (licensed in that specific state) to approve them. Legally that cannot be done by a computer, and pharmacists have too much money to allow that to change. It also can't be outsourced (well it technically could, but the person it is being outsourced to has to be licensed in whatever state they are approving orders in).
 
Essentially, yes!! That was my original advise and I'm sticking to it. If OP doesn't want to work retail (which I don't blame them), that's their only shot at working hospital. (but they should also look into other areas of pharmacy such as PBM, LTC, etc.).
Not to be a jerk, but OP has essentially shot themselves in the foot here. If I remember right, they went to a private school which means they took out 200K+ in loans and now they're considering taking out more loans to do a CS degree? At yet another private school? Yes federal loans can be forgiven after 20 years of on time payments, but I doubt they took out only federal loans and probably have a pretty penny in private loans. It just doesn't make any sense to me.
I don't want to get into more financial detail discussion here. OP didn't intend to, nor did I.

My guess is yes. Honestly CS seems like a field that can very easily be outsourced to other countries for a much cheaper rate. I mean it is all done online. When looking for a career, you should make sure that it's not a career that can be outsourced or automated. Everyone keeps thinking that pharmacy will be automated eventually, but there's laws in place to prevent that. Every single medication order (minus a few exceptions such as ER orders) require a pharmacist (licensed in that specific state) to approve them. Legally that cannot be done by a computer, and pharmacists have too much money to allow that to change. It also can't be outsourced (well it technically could, but the person it is being outsourced to has to be licensed in whatever state they are approving orders in).
In fact, CS already undergone a massive wave of outsourcing back in late 2000s when great recession hit the hardest. IT firms thought they could save a ton of money by sending projects overseas to India or China. Guess what happened? It backfired them badly, and they turned out having to spend even more money to test and rewrite those crappy codes submitted by Indian IT contractors. That's so much worse than hiring someone here and get it done once and for all. The technical skills of US CS grads are just so much superior than oversea IT contractors. I remember last year a consulting firm did a skill assessment and found that even an average CS grad from an average state school is skill-wise vastly superior than most of foreign IT contractors, especially those in China or India.

So programming jobs came back since 2012, and they stayed here ever since. If you follow the tech scene, you will know there was huge progress done in the domain of artificial intelligence. A lot of things previously envisioned only in scifi movies have become the reality. As the trade dispute with China, India, and probably Europe intensifies, we probably won't see another wave of IT outsourcing anytime soon, maybe never again.

If you are thinking using law as the last defense for pharmacy job security, I think you are still living and thinking in the past. Take NYC Taxi medallion as an example, taxi drivers in NYC used medallion to exclusively drive out competition and secure their jobs for decades. In fact, medallions used to be called "the best investment in America". Guess what happened after Uber and Lyft came online? Medallion devalued so much, and taxi drivers were terribly out-competed by Uber and Lyft drivers in terms of price and service.

Pharmaceuticals are already on the very top of the target list for the 1st tier IT giants. As far as I know, Apple is teaming up with Epic systems to get into the mobile EHR business. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Apple acquires Epic eventually and dominates the personal medical records business. Alphabet, the parent company of Google, is now also a pharmaceutical company, with Verily Life Sciences (with the very intention of eventually automating clinical decisions) and Calico under their banner. Google is also currently beta-testing its cloud healthcare analytics API. Amazon now literally owns whole foods, and they acquired PillPack back in mid-2018 and directly competes with CVS and Walgreen's, in the retail sector.

Remember, laws can be overturned by politicians at any time, and 1st tier IT giants now have multi-trillion dollar valuation, and if they want, I don't think some stupid dumb laws requiring pharmacist to oversee medication dispensing will prevent them getting into the business. In reality, pharmacists never really guaranteed much patient medication safety any way, as the recent New York Times article has put it under the spotlight. If you only rely on some administrative laws to protect your job, I would say your job is probably already on the chopping block.
 
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Amazon now literally owns whole foods pharmacy, and they acquired PillPack back in mid-2018 and directly competes with CVS and Walgreen's, in the retail sector.

Donde
 
These kinds of discussions are like missing the planet for the undergrowth underneath the trees that are destined for a clear-cut. Disrupting healthcare when the healthcare system is largely a pile of ****.

We'll see in 10 years. LOL
 
I don't want to get into more financial detail discussion here. OP didn't intend to, nor did I.
Why not? Any time you're talking about any life altering decision, you should definitely be considering the financial aspect to it so that you don't end up in the same situation that OP has (and I'm guessing you have as well).
If you are thinking using law as the last defense for pharmacy job security, I think you are still living and thinking in the past. Take NYC Taxi medallion as an example, taxi drivers in NYC used medallion to exclusively drive out competition and secure their jobs for decades. In fact, medallions used to be called "the best investment in America". Guess what happened after Uber and Lyft came online? Medallion devalued so much, and taxi drivers were terribly out-competed by Uber and Lyft drivers in terms of price and service.
There's actually quite a bit more to it then a new company coming in and being innovative in their thinking. There's a good documentary on Hulu about a lot of the behind the scenes corruption that was going on that was a bigger player in the crash of the New York taxi medallion than uber or lyft played.
 
Why not? Any time you're talking about any life altering decision, you should definitely be considering the financial aspect to it so that you don't end up in the same situation that OP has (and I'm guessing you have as well).
OP didn't want to talk about it. Maybe OP isn't short on cash, or whatever reason. I honestly don't know. I will give my input on topics where OP actually wants external opinion, not to derail the conversation and get off-track to financials, which will probably lead to nowhere.

Don't worry about me. I am graduating with very little debt. Something I can easily pay off in less than a year if I save aggressively. I invested 3x of what I owe in the stock market. I could graduate debt free, but I prefer not, as my portfolio has been generating far more income so far than interest accrued.

There's actually quite a bit more to it then a new company coming in and being innovative in their thinking. There's a good documentary on Hulu about a lot of the behind the scenes corruption that was going on that was a bigger player in the crash of the New York taxi medallion than uber or lyft played.
Corruption or no corruption, I was just using medallion as an example. It was something a lot of people were planning to bank their retirement lives on, but its value dropped to nearly worthless from its peak valuation in less than 5 years. Yet Uber and Lyft, no matter how small part they have played in the downfall of medallion, literally made rebound of medallion almost impossible in foreseeable future.
 
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Why not? Any time you're talking about any life altering decision, you should definitely be considering the financial aspect to it so that you don't end up in the same situation that OP has (and I'm guessing you have as well).

There's actually quite a bit more to it then a new company coming in and being innovative in their thinking. There's a good documentary on Hulu about a lot of the behind the scenes corruption that was going on that was a bigger player in the crash of the New York taxi medallion than uber or lyft played.
As a side note, since I day trade a lot, I am actually looking forward to applying ML to financial markets, after I take the machine learning for trading course. Georgia Tech actually has a lot of fintech firms recruiting there, a career pivot to fintech or just generating extra revenue for my investment is also an option.
 
These kinds of discussions are like missing the planet for the undergrowth underneath the trees that are destined for a clear-cut. Disrupting healthcare when the healthcare system is largely a pile of ****.

We'll see in 10 years. LOL
10 years or not, it doesn't really matter. Nobody could foresee Tesla stock soared 300% in last 3 months, yet it still happened, and it probably bankrupted or at least burned a lot of shorts. This type of black swan events doesn't have to happen often, but It only needs to occur once to completely derail the entire industry, just like my nyc medallion example.
 
Essentially, yes!! That was my original advise and I'm sticking to it. If OP doesn't want to work retail (which I don't blame them), that's their only shot at working hospital. (but they should also look into other areas of pharmacy such as PBM, LTC, etc.).
Not to be a jerk, but OP has essentially shot themselves in the foot here. If I remember right, they went to a private school which means they took out 200K+ in loans and now they're considering taking out more loans to do a CS degree? At yet another private school? Yes federal loans can be forgiven after 20 years of on time payments, but I doubt they took out only federal loans and probably have a pretty penny in private loans. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

My guess is yes. Honestly CS seems like a field that can very easily be outsourced to other countries for a much cheaper rate. I mean it is all done online. When looking for a career, you should make sure that it's not a career that can be outsourced or automated. Everyone keeps thinking that pharmacy will be automated eventually, but there's laws in place to prevent that. Every single medication order (minus a few exceptions such as ER orders) require a pharmacist (licensed in that specific state) to approve them. Legally that cannot be done by a computer, and pharmacists have too much money to allow that to change. It also can't be outsourced (well it technically could, but the person it is being outsourced to has to be licensed in whatever state they are approving orders in).

To provide some clarification regarding my student loan situation, my loans are all federal loans, fortunately for me. I don't have any private loans.

I know it sounds like a bad idea to go further into debt, but the CS programs are relatively cheap when compared to what pharmacy school cost. Even UPenn's program is only $26k, and as a part-time student, BU's program only costs around $22-$23k (I miscalculated the total cost earlier). Like i said in a previous post, I'm basically looking at it as the equivalent of taking an extra semester or two of pharmacy classes. Also, it's still going to be less additional debt than my classmates took on to do my school's dual MBA program (around $60k in additional loans).

Regarding the outsourcing issue, I guess I'm just going to have to proceed with the knowledge that it could but hopefully won't happen. On a related note, I actually had an interesting conversation with someone who suggested that I look into doing the cybersecurity track offered by the MS programs I'm considering applying to, simply because of the fact that US companies who hire candidates into cybersecurity-related positions are legally prohibited from hiring H1B1 applicants into those positions due to the nature of the work. So I guess that's an option as well.
 
@pharmacy_sucks did you get a chance to check out the MS in Software Development that is offered by BU? Do you think that would be a better option than their MCIS program?
 
I was never interested in doing a residency but I did work at a hospital as a tech and then as an intern and then a pharmacist. Over 2500 intern hours while in school and they hired me as a staff pharmacist right out...and this is in a saturated city. Don't be too proud to staff...its better than retail.
 
Didn't the ancient samurai have a tradition of simply falling on their own swords if they didn't match?
 
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Didn't the ancient samurai have a tradition of simply falling on their own swords if they didn't match?
Actually they ride out in a blaze of glory and get mowed down by gatling guns. At least, that's what I remember from the Last Samurai.
 
Either one would work. Would also cut down on the over saturation problem.... The sword technique at least doesn't waste all that ammo....
 
Do they give the new grads a trophy for not matching? After all, at least they tried....
 
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Didn't the ancient samurai have a tradition of simply falling on their own swords if they didn't match?
Ancient samurai had a tradition of beheading any peasants who seemed to insult them in public, including those who stood in their way but didn't bow down to pay respect.
 
If pharmacists beheaded all those who didn't respect them, there wouldn't be enough steel in the world to forge all those swords....
 
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Do they give the new grads a trophy for not matching? After all, at least they tried....
They also give older grads a trophy by laying them off and asking them to reapply. After all, at least $$$ matters more, not some seniority bullsh*t.
 
I was never interested in doing a residency but I did work at a hospital as a tech and then as an intern and then a pharmacist. Over 2500 intern hours while in school and they hired me as a staff pharmacist right out...and this is in a saturated city. Don't be too proud to staff...its better than retail.

I was hoping to be able to get a job by following a similar trajectory, but the hospital I worked at as an intern during school (currently a P4) implemented a policy of hiring only residency-trained pharmacists about a year ago. One of the other interns had worked there for 10+ years as a technician before going to pharmacy school, and they even told him they wouldn't consider hiring him as a pharmacist unless he completed a residency.
 
I was hoping to be able to get a job by following a similar trajectory, but the hospital I worked at as an intern during school (currently a P4) implemented a policy of hiring only residency-trained pharmacists about a year ago. One of the other interns had worked there for 10+ years as a technician before going to pharmacy school, and they even told him they wouldn't consider hiring him as a pharmacist unless he completed a residency.
must be feeling like a slap to the face. what kind of **** employer is that?
 
must be feeling like a slap to the face. what kind of **** employer is that?

It's a large hospital network in the southeast. From what I was told, they implemented the policy simply because the job market justifies it. They graduated their most recent residency class back in June, and 6 or 7 of the residents are still looking for jobs.
 
it doesn't matter too much. it won't disqualify you from anything. At least BU is ranked and reputable.

I wasn't sure if one of the degrees might be more relevant in terms of the actual classes that are taken. For example, isn't software development basically the same thing as coding and software engineering? On the other hand, the CMIS program seems to be more of an IT generalist degree.
 
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