MD & DO How would EM Residencies View a Research or MPH Gap Year?

[ballerkinglightningrace80]

I'm currently a US MD MS3 interested in EM who is strongly considering either taking a research gap year between MS3 and MS4 years or doing an MPH then (I have a strong interest in Global Health).

I am a subpar candidate in terms of my Step 1 (218) and had to take a few weeks off from school due to my mom being diagnosed with a terminal illness which really affected my Step score and will prevent my from getting my SLOEs in until October of the current application cycle due to the time off that I took.

Taking a gap year would allow for me to spend more time with my family and care for my mom, allow me to catch up in terms of getting SLOEs on time, and allow me a longer time period to study for Step 2 CK. However, I was told by my home institution EM director that a gap year is bad because I will be graduating in 5 instead of 4 years and it would mark me as a red flag applicant

I'd really appreciate any advice or insight into this and what I should do! Thanks

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[Schwifty]

I have no specific information on EM, but I think taking a research year or MPH year between M3 and M4 is fine, taking it after M4 would be a red flag. But as long as you are getting the MPH or actually doing productive research I think it would be fine.

 

[ballerkinglightningrace80]

I have no specific information on EM, but I think taking a research year or MPH year between M3 and M4 is fine, taking it after M4 would be a red flag. But as long as you are getting the MPH or actually doing productive research I think it would be fine.

I thought the same way but apparently graduating in 5 vs 4 years is a huge deal regardless of when it occurs. Hope we're both right!

 

[CyrilFiggis]

You’ll be fine. You have a reason for the time off due to personal/family issues. Explain it in your app and you’ll be ok. Your Step grade is the issue so do well on CK.

 

[odyssey2]

You’ll be fine. You have a reason for the time off due to personal/family issues. Explain it in your app and you’ll be ok. Your Step grade is the issue so do well on CK.

Isn’t doing research or getting an MPH enough of a reason to take time off by itself, putting aside any personal/family issues? Would anyone seriously have a problem with that?

 

[ballerkinglightningrace80]

Isn’t doing research or getting an MPH enough of a reason to take time off by itself, putting aside any personal/family issues? Would anyone seriously have a problem with that?

I agree with you for sure but it appears EM programs dont consider research as beneficial and that the simple fact of graduating at 5 instead of 4 years is a big red flag. Ridiculous in my opinion and glad to see I'm not the only one

 

[CyrilFiggis]

I agree with you for sure but it appears EM programs dont consider research as beneficial and that the simple fact of graduating at 5 instead of 4 years is a big red flag. Ridiculous in my opinion and glad to see I'm not the only one

I don’t know where you’re getting your info, but I’m applying EM and I have classmates who took a year and they are interviewing just fine.

 

[CidHighwind]

It’s only a red flag to graduate in 5 years instead of 4 if you got held back a year. Why would getting a second degree or doing research hurt you?

 

[ballerkinglightningrace80]

It’s only a red flag to graduate in 5 years instead of 4 if you got held back a year. Why would getting a second degree or doing research hurt you?

I was told for other residencies i.e Internal Med, ENT, etc that a research year could be beneficial but that it would hurt for EM since there isn't a heavy focus of research in EM. But I really appreciate all the responses

 

[ThrowawayShmoaway]

@gamerEMdoc

 

[CyrilFiggis]

I was told for other residencies i.e Internal Med, ENT, etc that a research year could be beneficial but that it would hurt for EM since there isn't a heavy focus of research in EM. But I really appreciate all the responses

Who told you?

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Ok this may come off as callous and unpopular, but Im always truthful here so here goes...

Some EM programs value research, but it’s rarely a big focus of many programs. It’s unlikely to open many doors unless its legit big research, and usually the reason for doing the research is just an excuse to explain your gap that you want to take for another reason. My first thought when I see a gap is, they took extra time for step 1 or 2 (depending on when the gap is). Its usually someone who struggled with Step 1, is scared to do poorly on step 2, and wants extra time to study, so they justify a ton of extra time by doing a research year as a guise for extra time.

Ultimately, if needing the extra time for step 2 wasnt actually an issue, and this was solely about the love for research, then you’d take Step 2 when everyone else is rather than try and game an advantage over fellow students that took the exam in the normal timeline.

So in that sense, I am often skeptical of many of the excuses I see for gaps. Life happens, I get that, but I see on apps ALL THE TIME statements like “I needed to take 2 mo off when my relative got ill, and also study for step 1”. People cheapen their personal tragedies by using them as an excuse, and I honestly find that kind of sad. There’s students who have horrible stuff happen that legit need time off bc of it. Id never hold that against them. But it just for some reason always seems on peoples MPSEs that personal tragedies only seem to happen in the two months off they take right before boards.

Now, to circle back. Taking a gap year for the right reason probably wont hurt. If you actually accomplish something significant like getting the MPH and doing multiple studies, etc. But it will come into question if you do a research year to do a retrospective small study that another student could have done in a few weeks. So I guess it all depends on what you accomplish in that year.

Personally, Id rather see students go straight through, but if someone has a big side interest they want to pursue and accomplish something significant, or if they have to take a ton of time off for a legit health reason, Id never hold that against them.

 

[CidHighwind]

Ok this may come off as callous and unpopular, but Im always truthful here so here goes...

Some EM programs value research, but it’s rarely a big focus of many programs. It’s unlikely to open many doors unless its legit big research, and usually the reason for doing the research is just an excuse to explain your gap that you want to take for another reason. My first thought when I see a gap is, they took extra time for step 1 or 2 (depending on when the gap is). Its usually someone who struggled with Step 1, is scared to do poorly on step 2, and wants extra time to study, so they justify a ton of extra time by doing a research year as a guise for extra time.

Ultimately, if needing the extra time for step 2 wasnt actually an issue, and this was solely about the love for research, then you’d take Step 2 when everyone else is rather than try and game an advantage over fellow students that took the exam in the normal timeline.

So in that sense, I am often skeptical of many of the excuses I see for gaps. Life happens, I get that, but I see on apps ALL THE TIME statements like “I needed to take 2 mo off when my relative got ill, and also study for step 1”. People cheapen their personal tragedies by using them as an excuse, and I honestly find that kind of sad. There’s students who have horrible stuff happen that legit need time off bc of it. Id never hold that against them. But it just for some reason always seems on peoples MPSEs that personal tragedies only seem to happen in the two months off they take right before boards.

Now, to circle back. Taking a gap year for the right reason probably wont hurt. If you actually accomplish something significant like getting the MPH and doing multiple studies, etc. But it will come into question if you do a research year to do a retrospective small study that another student could have done in a few weeks. So I guess it all depends on what you accomplish in that year.

Personally, Id rather see students go straight through, but if someone has a big side interest they want to pursue and accomplish something significant, or if they have to take a ton of time off for a legit health reason, Id never hold that against them.

So in short, BS “research” wouldn’t help much at all, but legit accomplishments (publish in high impact journal, MPH/MBA, etc) would help ease your skepticism and boost their app?

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Yes. But Id still be A bit skeptical if I saw they delayed step 2 and would always assume that was part of the reason they took the time off. Again, if they took step 2 at the normal time, then did the gap year, I think it would lead a lot more credence to believing they actually did the gap year bc of their love of research.

 

[CidHighwind]

Yes. But Id still be A bit skeptical if I saw they delayed step 2 and would always assume that was part of the reason they took the time off. Again, if they took step 2 at the normal time, then did the gap year, I think it would lead a lot more credence to believing they actually did the gap year bc of their love of research.

I know there are schools that make students take step 1/2 before they take a gap for this very reason. The ones that don’t might figure that it’s better to take a gap and have a decent score than not and have a poorer score.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I’d rather take a resident with lower scores who isnt trying to game the system. But that’s me.

Maybe Im just jaded about this bc of how often I see this, and its kind of offensive to people who legit have worked through tragedy to have someone use some ridiculous excuse to try to pull the wool over the eyes of the application reviewer. In EM, we are trained to try and detect when people are lying to us. If you need 2 mo off to study, fine, just come out and say that.

I could write a book listing the reasons Ive seen people take time off because of something that happened in the month or two before they took step 1 and 2 that made them take of for their hardship and to “and study for step1”. Many of them are absolutely ridiculous excuses, some are probably legit and unfortunately met with skepticism bc of other applicants. But all in all, I cant think of any instances that come to mind that someone had to take 2 mo off in like the middle of 1st year or 4th year. It ALWAYS falls around the boards.

 

[odyssey2]

Yes. But Id still be A bit skeptical if I saw they delayed step 2 and would always assume that was part of the reason they took the time off. Again, if they took step 2 at the normal time, then did the gap year, I think it would lead a lot more credence to believing they actually did the gap year bc of their love of research.

If a student doesn't delay the boards but takes a research year with underwhelming output, would this hurt the student more than if he hadn't done the year at all?

 

[gamerEMdoc]

If a student doesn't delay the boards but takes a research year with underwhelming output, would this hurt the student more than if he hadn't done the year at all?

Probably some, just bc it shows somewhat of a lack of judgement of taking an entire year off to accomplish little. Why take a full year off and have nothing to show for it? I mean it is an entire year! Think of everything you have done in one year of med school, it is a ton of work. If someone takes a year to do something else in academia, they should have actual accomplishments to show for it. Otherwise they either took the time off for other reasons and are being dishonest, or they wasted their time they took.

 

[ballerkinglightningrace80]

I’d rather take a resident with lower scores who isnt trying to game the system. But that’s me.

Maybe Im just jaded about this bc of how often I see this, and its kind of offensive to people who legit have worked through tragedy to have someone use some ridiculous excuse to try to pull the wool over the eyes of the application reviewer. In EM, we are trained to try and detect when people are lying to us. If you need 2 mo off to study, fine, just come out and say that.

I could write a book listing the reasons Ive seen people take time off because of something that happened in the month or two before they took step 1 and 2 that made them take of for their hardship and to “and study for step1”. Many of them are absolutely ridiculous excuses, some are probably legit and unfortunately met with skepticism bc of other applicants. But all in all, I cant think of any instances that come to mind that someone had to take 2 mo off in like the middle of 1st year or 4th year. It ALWAYS falls around the boards.

I appreciate the response. My mom has stage 4 cancer with a less than 5% 5 year survival rate so this is in no way me trying to "game" the system. She is the only family member I have in America so being far from her and watching her suffer is no fun. I actually already took 1 month off during the middle my 3rd year already to help coordinate her care so this has nothing to do with boards.
I also have multiple projects lined up so I am hoping for some solid research output if I chose that pathway.
Also, I will be taking Step 2 on time as my school requires me to do so before taking a gap year I recently found out.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I appreciate the response. My mom has stage 4 cancer with a less than 5% 5 year survival rate so this is in no way me trying to "game" the system. She is the only family member I have in America so being far from her and watching her suffer is no fun. I actually already took 1 month off during the middle my 3rd year already to help coordinate her care so this has nothing to do with boards.
I also have multiple projects lined up so I am hoping for some solid research output if I chose that pathway.
Also, I will be taking Step 2 on time as my school requires me to do so before taking a gap year I recently found out.

Sorry about your mom. Legit tragedy is tough, and it is hard to work through. Many of us lose parents, grandparents, spouses, siblings, etc in our careers. It sucks, no doubt. Im not making light of the legit tragedy you are going through, nor the time you need to take for that. But your first post specifically said you were going to use the extra time for step 2. Hence, the skepticism.

Taking a gap year would allow for me to spend more time with my family and care for my mom, allow me to catch up in terms of getting SLOEs on time, and allow me a longer time period to study for Step 2 CK.

Take all the time for your mother. The extra time shouldn't be about getting SLOEs or extra study time as you first alluded to in the original post. If you need to be with your mom in her last time on this earth, be with your mom. That’s all I’m getting at. It shouldnt be about anything else.

 

[ballerkinglightningrace80]

Sorry about your mom. Legit tragedy is tough, and it is hard to work through. Many of us lose parents, grandparents, spouses, siblings, etc in our careers. It sucks, no doubt. Im not making light of the legit tragedy you are going through, nor the time you need to take for that. But your first post specifically said you were going to use the extra time for step 2. Hence, the skepticism.



Take all the time for your mother. The extra time shouldn't be about getting SLOEs or extra study time as you first alluded to in the original post. If you need to be with your mom in her last time on this earth, be with your mom. That’s all I’m getting at. It shouldnt be about anything else.

I appreciate that. I had a meeting with my dean on Friday so that kind of cleared up the fact that I have to take step 2 by August (normal time but stretching it). And if I did the MPH I'd have to take it early July it seems.