I don’t have a great title for this bs

[nvrsumr]

“Dear Care Provider,

Per …… all health care professionals who are in-network for ….. Health Plans ….. Option Standardized Plan must provide us with the following anti-bias, cultural competency or similar training information by June 20, 2023:

• Description of training
• Date and duration of training
• Number of staff who have completed training

Submitting training information to us is required.

What you need to do to submit your information is follow this link to the Survey:
…..

Or copy and paste the URL below into your internet browser:
…..

We also ask that you provide us with the following demographic information by June 20, 2023:

• Race and ethnicity
• Sexual orientation and gender identity
• Ability status”

I will be removed from the network if I don’t comply and info will be used to direct patients to approved practices based on patient and practice ethic make up.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[bedrock]

“Dear Care Provider,

Per …… all health care professionals who are in-network for ….. Health Plans ….. Option Standardized Plan must provide us with the following anti-bias, cultural competency or similar training information by June 20, 2023:

• Description of training
• Date and duration of training
• Number of staff who have completed training

Submitting training information to us is required.

What you need to do to submit your information is follow this link to the Survey:
…..

Or copy and paste the URL below into your internet browser:
…..

We also ask that you provide us with the following demographic information by June 20, 2023:

• Race and ethnicity
• Sexual orientation and gender identity
• Ability status”

I will be removed from the network if I don’t comply and info will be used to direct patients to approved practices

OMG!!
This is what happens when liberals are in power.

DEI is fast becoming communism. Your personal beliefs do not matter. These people are all about denying free will and freedom of speech.

“Comply and be assimilated, resistance is futile”

I would definitely drop whatever BS insurance plan this is!

 

[nvrsumr]

I will do it

 

[Doctodd]

You have to do it….iirc you are on the left, so why are you complaining?

 

[Ducttape]

at least MVP and UHC both use NCQA for quality assurance and improvement in heatlh care.

fwiw, 9 CME hours

https://cccm.thinkculturalhealth.hhs.gov/

released in 2004.

(last update was in 2018... when trump was in power...)


its a healthcare metric meant to help with some of the very well known and glaringly obvious disparities in the US healthcare system. its incorporated as part of my system's mandatory health learning, right along with hand hygiene, blood precautions, security, fraud...

 

[SSdoc33]

all hospitals, and it seems most states licensures, have some form of this BS to maintain privileges. you can probably just forward your previous completed training

 

[drusso]

“Dear Care Provider,

Per …… all health care professionals who are in-network for ….. Health Plans ….. Option Standardized Plan must provide us with the following anti-bias, cultural competency or similar training information by June 20, 2023:

• Description of training
• Date and duration of training
• Number of staff who have completed training

Submitting training information to us is required.

What you need to do to submit your information is follow this link to the Survey:
…..

Or copy and paste the URL below into your internet browser:
…..

We also ask that you provide us with the following demographic information by June 20, 2023:

• Race and ethnicity
• Sexual orientation and gender identity
• Ability status”

I will be removed from the network if I don’t comply and info will be used to direct patients to approved practices based on patient and practice ethic make up.

"They will never love you back." Tell them that what they are requesting you to do is not evidence-based and they should go pound sand.

 

[Ferrismonk]

Since when is anything the government does evidence based?

 

[SSdoc33]

"They will never love you back." Tell them that what they are requesting you to do is not evidence-based and they should go pound sand.

"BC/BS regrets to inform you that you will no longer be a participating provider in our plan"

"BC/BS also believes that your objectivism stance and ayn rand shrine is incompatible with our DEI values, and thus drusso and all of his offspring will never be allowed on our panel again"

 

[Ducttape]

diversity training apparently helps in the work environment.

Does Diversity Training Work? Time for an Evidence-Based Answer • ScienceForWork

There’s one place where cooperation between people is necessary: the workplace. With so many instances of division, leaders must take responsibility for giving people opportunities to collaborate and, thus, foster inclusion in the workplace. Can diversity training help leaders build a more...

scienceforwork.com

there is insufficient evidence thus far, and more studies need to be done to determine if cultural training alone is sufficient to address the problem of racial inequity in healthcare.

probably a better solution is to incorporate more minorities as physicians/healthcare providers...

 

[Ferrismonk]

Or ignore race altogether since being a good doctor has nothing at all to do with race.

 

[buddababa]

Or ignore race altogether since being a good doctor has nothing at all to do with race.

i agree with what you're trying to say, but we have to take race into account for diseases, such as kidney, sarcoidosis, etc

 

[drusso]

"BC/BS regrets to inform you that you will no longer be a participating provider in our plan"

"BC/BS also believes that your objectivism stance and ayn rand shrine is incompatible with our DEI values, and thus drusso and all of his offspring will never be allowed on our panel again"

If your state has an "any willing provider" law, then you can just ignore this woke, faux-anti-racist Buk(k)ake and carry on. It's smoke and mirrors.

 

[bedrock]

diversity training apparently helps in the work environment.

Does Diversity Training Work? Time for an Evidence-Based Answer • ScienceForWork

There’s one place where cooperation between people is necessary: the workplace. With so many instances of division, leaders must take responsibility for giving people opportunities to collaborate and, thus, foster inclusion in the workplace. Can diversity training help leaders build a more...

scienceforwork.com

there is insufficient evidence thus far, and more studies need to be done to determine if cultural training alone is sufficient to address the problem of racial inequity in healthcare.

probably a better solution is to incorporate more minorities as physicians/healthcare providers...

Diversity training is a total waste of time. That study is as unbiased as your other worthless NPR “study”.

People in america are far more divided by race and sex and suspicious of others in america compared to 20 years ago.

This is because instead of the colorblind society envisioned by MLK, now the democrats want Americans to see race and sex in absolutely everything. And that terrible policy is destroying the fabric of this country.

If you don’t see this then you are blind, or completely brainwashed by mainstream socialist news.

 

[Ducttape]

just ignore what is happening in the US.

Disparities in Health and Health Care Among Black People | KFF

This infographic looks at the persistent disparities in health and health care for Black people, which reflect structural and systematic inequities rooted in racism and discrimination. Although disparities in health coverage for Black people narrowed after passage of the Affordable Care Act...

www.kff.org

African Americans/Blacks | Health Disparities | CDC

In 2018, African Americans/Blacks accounted for 42% of the 37,968 new HIV diagnoses in the United States and dependent areas. Of the 37,968 new HIV diagnoses in the US and dependent areas in 2018.

www.cdc.gov

maternal health:

Racial Disparities in Maternal Health

Pregnant women in the United States are more than twice as likely to die from complications related to pregnancy or childbirth than those in most other high-income countries in the world. This study examines variations in many of these SMM rates, as well as the most common risk factors for those...

www.bcbs.com

.

cardiovascular health:

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.121.023650

Feature | Racial, Ethnic Disparities in CV Care: Focused JACC Series - American College of Cardiology

www.acc.org

cancer care and treatment:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanonc/article/PIIS1470-2045%2821%2900669-0/fulltext

Cancer Disparities

Basic information about cancer disparities in the U.S., factors that contribute to the disproportionate burden of cancer in some groups, and examples of disparities in incidence and mortality among certain populations.

www.cancer.gov

and you think that ignoring the racial disparities will make things better?

oh wait, im sure for you it will. out of mind, out of sight. noone would be revealing the truth so you can continue to live in your perfect little bubble.

even SIS recognizes that diversity is important:

https://www.spineintervention.org/news/511075/A-Message-From-SIS-Diversity-Task-Force-With-Full-Support-of-the-Board-of-Directors.htm

A Message From SIS Diversity Task Force With Full Support of the Board of Directors​

Thursday, June 4, 2020

In light of the recent acts of gross injustice and racism, we would like SIS members to know that we strongly support and remain committed to diversity, equity, and inclusion. Specifically, we stand with members of our Black/African American community during this time of duress.

SIS condemns racism in all forms and its effects on the healthcare system. Amidst the COVID crisis and given longstanding institutionalized racism, it is time for leaders in the healthcare system to promote structural changes that will foster equity and inclusion.

 

[drusso]

just ignore what is happening in the US.

Disparities in Health and Health Care Among Black People | KFF

This infographic looks at the persistent disparities in health and health care for Black people, which reflect structural and systematic inequities rooted in racism and discrimination. Although disparities in health coverage for Black people narrowed after passage of the Affordable Care Act...

www.kff.org

African Americans/Blacks | Health Disparities | CDC

In 2018, African Americans/Blacks accounted for 42% of the 37,968 new HIV diagnoses in the United States and dependent areas. Of the 37,968 new HIV diagnoses in the US and dependent areas in 2018.

www.cdc.gov

maternal health:

Racial Disparities in Maternal Health

Pregnant women in the United States are more than twice as likely to die from complications related to pregnancy or childbirth than those in most other high-income countries in the world. This study examines variations in many of these SMM rates, as well as the most common risk factors for those...

www.bcbs.com

.

cardiovascular health:

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.121.023650

Feature | Racial, Ethnic Disparities in CV Care: Focused JACC Series - American College of Cardiology

www.acc.org

cancer care and treatment:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanonc/article/PIIS1470-2045%2821%2900669-0/fulltext

Cancer Disparities

Basic information about cancer disparities in the U.S., factors that contribute to the disproportionate burden of cancer in some groups, and examples of disparities in incidence and mortality among certain populations.

www.cancer.gov

and you think that ignoring the racial disparities will make things better?

oh wait, im sure for you it will. out of mind, out of sight. noone would be revealing the truth so you can continue to live in your perfect little bubble.

even SIS recognizes that diversity is important:

https://www.spineintervention.org/news/511075/A-Message-From-SIS-Diversity-Task-Force-With-Full-Support-of-the-Board-of-Directors.htm

A Message From SIS Diversity Task Force With Full Support of the Board of Directors​

Thursday, June 4, 2020

In light of the recent acts of gross injustice and racism, we would like SIS members to know that we strongly support and remain committed to diversity, equity, and inclusion. Specifically, we stand with members of our Black/African American community during this time of duress.

SIS condemns racism in all forms and its effects on the healthcare system. Amidst the COVID crisis and given longstanding institutionalized racism, it is time for leaders in the healthcare system to promote structural changes that will foster equity and inclusion.

You forgot this:

A ‘Rare Case Where Racial Biases’ Protected African-Americans (Published 2019)

Fewer opioid prescriptions meant fewer deaths (possibly 14,000), but the episode also reveals how prevalent and harmful stereotypes can be, even if implicit.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Ferrismonk]

just ignore what is happening in the US.

Disparities in Health and Health Care Among Black People | KFF

This infographic looks at the persistent disparities in health and health care for Black people, which reflect structural and systematic inequities rooted in racism and discrimination. Although disparities in health coverage for Black people narrowed after passage of the Affordable Care Act...

www.kff.org

African Americans/Blacks | Health Disparities | CDC

In 2018, African Americans/Blacks accounted for 42% of the 37,968 new HIV diagnoses in the United States and dependent areas. Of the 37,968 new HIV diagnoses in the US and dependent areas in 2018.

www.cdc.gov

maternal health:

Racial Disparities in Maternal Health

Pregnant women in the United States are more than twice as likely to die from complications related to pregnancy or childbirth than those in most other high-income countries in the world. This study examines variations in many of these SMM rates, as well as the most common risk factors for those...

www.bcbs.com

.

cardiovascular health:

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.121.023650

Feature | Racial, Ethnic Disparities in CV Care: Focused JACC Series - American College of Cardiology

www.acc.org

cancer care and treatment:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanonc/article/PIIS1470-2045%2821%2900669-0/fulltext

Cancer Disparities

Basic information about cancer disparities in the U.S., factors that contribute to the disproportionate burden of cancer in some groups, and examples of disparities in incidence and mortality among certain populations.

www.cancer.gov

and you think that ignoring the racial disparities will make things better?

oh wait, im sure for you it will. out of mind, out of sight. noone would be revealing the truth so you can continue to live in your perfect little bubble.

even SIS recognizes that diversity is important:

https://www.spineintervention.org/news/511075/A-Message-From-SIS-Diversity-Task-Force-With-Full-Support-of-the-Board-of-Directors.htm

A Message From SIS Diversity Task Force With Full Support of the Board of Directors​

Thursday, June 4, 2020

In light of the recent acts of gross injustice and racism, we would like SIS members to know that we strongly support and remain committed to diversity, equity, and inclusion. Specifically, we stand with members of our Black/African American community during this time of duress.

SIS condemns racism in all forms and its effects on the healthcare system. Amidst the COVID crisis and given longstanding institutionalized racism, it is time for leaders in the healthcare system to promote structural changes that will foster equity and inclusion.

Every study you listed talks about the disparities, but none of them show that racism is the cause. There obviously are disparities, buy they exist because many minorities have poorer health and make poorer health choices, not because of the color of their skin.

The only one that said racism is the cause is the ridiculous NPR article which stated, without evidence, that the "stress of systemic racism" led to a black mother dying. Nevermind the mother lost a brother to a car accident, had another brother with MS (who apparently received "subpar treatment" because he had (free btw) medicaid"), her relationship the kid's father "fell apart", a history of surgery for uterine fibroids, she was overweight, and was on anticoagulation for a blood clotting disease. She had a non-healing surgical wound and post-partum hyptertension (preecclampsia?) which was treated btw. Definitely stress from racism was the cause.

And fwiw, SIS' DEI focus is a reason I would NOT join them. If a company or organization focuses on DEI, they obviously think their money is better spent talking about race than the topic they supposedly exist for. I'm not supporting that with my money.

 

[Pain Applicant1]

I think it's ridiculous too but I would just do it. My business survival takes priority and sometimes you just have to play the game.

Then again, maybe you're a stronger person than I am and you should stand up and dig your heels in for what you believe in.

Things like this is what helps people like trump get elected.

And yes, systemic racism in America is responsible for racial health disparities, including hiv as the article from @Ducttape noted. It's also the reason that sub Saharan Africa holds the crown for a disproportionate amount of the world's hiv cases. Damn Americans.... but not all Americans, only the white ones.

 

[DrSpine]

Can't wait to drink liberal tears again soon.

 

[Agast]

• Race and ethnicity
• Sexual orientation and gender identity
• Ability status”

Google searching “Pansexual non-binary Jewish pain physician near me”

 

[lobelsteve]

Google searching “Pansexual non-binary Jewish pain physician near me”

Have you seen the video?

 

[lobelsteve]

 

[Ducttape]

Every study you listed talks about the disparities, but none of them show that racism is the cause. There obviously are disparities, buy they exist because many minorities have poorer health and make poorer health choices, not because of the color of their skin.

The only one that said racism is the cause is the ridiculous NPR article which stated, without evidence, that the "stress of systemic racism" led to a black mother dying. Nevermind the mother lost a brother to a car accident, had another brother with MS (who apparently received "subpar treatment" because he had (free btw) medicaid"), her relationship the kid's father "fell apart", a history of surgery for uterine fibroids, she was overweight, and was on anticoagulation for a blood clotting disease. She had a non-healing surgical wound and post-partum hyptertension (preecclampsia?) which was treated btw. Definitely stress from racism was the cause.

And fwiw, SIS' DEI focus is a reason I would NOT join them. If a company or organization focuses on DEI, they obviously think their money is better spent talking about race than the topic they supposedly exist for. I'm not supporting that with my money.

first, it is easy to conflate racism with racial disparity.

they are clearly different entities - one of them implies purposeful discrimination, the other implies that there are differences in population that occur between different groups irrespective of the underlying causes.

Racial Disparities

The United States is a multiracial, multiethnic society. The major racial/ethnic categories in American society are white, African‐American, Hispanic, Asian, an

www.cliffsnotes.com

Racism, an insidious social problem in the United States since the founding of the country, is the belief that members of one or more races are inferior to members of other races.

The term racial disparity refers to a difference that may or may not be related to discrimination.

now, racial disparity may be due to racism itself. but that is a separate situation. i dont think that any of these articles - well, besides the NPR one maybe - is saying that doctors in healthcare are racist.


but while it should be obvious to everyone that there are racial disparities, and these few were posted for those who refuse to view healthcare outside rose colored glasses. there are hundreds more, all documenting sginificant differences in healthcare outcomes between different racial (and ethnic) groups.



diversity training is supposed to help reduce racial disparities leading to poorer healthcare, primarily amongst african americans but also native americans and some asian americans.



it is not calling any snowflakes as racists

 

[Pain Applicant1]

first, it is easy to conflate racism with racial disparity.

they are clearly different entities - one of them implies purposeful discrimination, the other implies that there are differences in population that occur between different groups irrespective of the underlying causes.

Racial Disparities

The United States is a multiracial, multiethnic society. The major racial/ethnic categories in American society are white, African‐American, Hispanic, Asian, an

www.cliffsnotes.com

now, racial disparity may be due to racism itself. but that is a separate situation. i dont think that any of these articles - well, besides the NPR one maybe - is saying that doctors in healthcare are racist.


but while it should be obvious to everyone that there are racial disparities, and these few were posted for those who refuse to view healthcare outside rose colored glasses. there are hundreds more, all documenting sginificant differences in healthcare outcomes between different racial (and ethnic) groups.



diversity training is supposed to help reduce racial disparities leading to poorer healthcare, primarily amongst african americans but also native americans and some asian americans.



it is not calling any snowflakes as racists

Sounds like a bunch of academic mumbo-jumbo horsesheet to me.

 

[Pain Applicant1]

No system in the world has bent over so backward to cater to people who have such a lack of appreciation for it. The system will never win because some people will never be happy. If you move in you are condemned for doing too much and if you move out you are condemned for not doing enough. It's a lose-lose situation.

You will never have equality where you have freedom because people are not equal. Everyone is different and has different capabilities. You can try to suppress freedom to produce equality but that will make for a very unstable system.

I will never make the NBA because I'm not talented enough. This is no one's fault but is my reality. I accept it and don't blame anyone for this.

----

You're not doing anyone any good but constantly blaming a system other than someone's own personal responsibility for the decisions they decide to make. All you're doing is creating anger and fostering hatred and people who grow up in certain areas have to deal with the aftermath of what you're shoveling them....

(edit)... while you stay safe and sound in the ivory towers.

 

[Ferrismonk]

Yes, but DEI education is not about racial disparities and educating the patients how they can improve, it's about the benefits of "diversity, equity, and inclusion" in the workplace. aka, we are the problem, which is false.

 

[Ducttape]

this is not about treating a person as different than another person.

this is about trying to achieve the goal that all groups of people can achieve the best health for each of them, and that certain groups have limitations that others do not.

and it is not about blame.

Sounds like a bunch of academic mumbo-jumbo horsesheet to me.

if you are a member of the majority, you probably have never felt or seen racial disparity. thats understandable.

being exposed to the possibility that different groups of people in the US have different experiences may be good for all of us.

but wait. thats diversity teaching.

You're not doing anyone any good but constantly blaming a system other than someone's own personal responsibility for the decisions they decide to make. All you're doing is creating anger and fostering hatred and people who grow up in certain areas have to deal with the aftermath of what you're shoveling them.

Yes, but DEI education is not about racial disparities and educating the patients how they can improve, it's about the benefits of "diversity, equity, and inclusion" in the workplace. aka, we are the problem, which is false.

both these suggests that diversity education might be helpful. in both of these statements, the poster is blaming the patient for racial inequities.

DEI education is about understanding patients, make them feel more heard, make them establish a better doctor-patient relationship and encourage their willingness to engage in their own treatment.

How Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Can Influence Healthcare

Healthcare organizations have a responsibility to improve diversity, equity, and inclusion both for their employees and the patients they serve. This article offers six strategies to help.

www.relias.com

In terms of healthcare, DEI efforts help organizations address:

• Diversity: Understanding the background of employees and patients being served, including culture, gender, sexual orientation, religious beliefs, and socioeconomic status. Also, hiring and retaining a workforce that is representative of the patient population served.
• Equity: Ensuring healthcare workers have what they need to do their jobs and patients have what they need in and out of treatment settings to effectively benefit from best practices in treatment (not to be confused with equality).
• Inclusion: Giving employees and patients a voice to help provide and receive high-quality care and encouraging the presence of a diverse healthcare staff in the treatment experience of patients.

 

[geauxg8rs]

i agree with what you're trying to say, but we have to take race into account for diseases, such as kidney, sarcoidosis, etc

Next you are going to tell us that we should
Treat men and women differently

 

[buddababa]

Next you are going to tell us that we should
Treat men and women differently

yup

 

[Pain Applicant1]

this is not about treating a person as different than another person.

this is about trying to achieve the goal that all groups of people can achieve the best health for each of them, and that certain groups have limitations that others do not.

and it is not about blame.


if you are a member of the majority, you probably have never felt or seen racial disparity. thats understandable.

being exposed to the possibility that different groups of people in the US have different experiences may be good for all of us.

but wait. thats diversity teaching.




both these suggests that diversity education might be helpful. in both of these statements, the poster is blaming the patient for racial inequities.

DEI education is about understanding patients, make them feel more heard, make them establish a better doctor-patient relationship and encourage their willingness to engage in their own treatment.

How Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Can Influence Healthcare

Healthcare organizations have a responsibility to improve diversity, equity, and inclusion both for their employees and the patients they serve. This article offers six strategies to help.

www.relias.com

Damn straight I'm putting health care discrepancies on the individual and not on any systemic racist origins. Not only that but I'll go a step further again and say that you're causing far more harm than good by doing what you're doing. You're alleviating personal responsibility and this is unhealthy for people and for society. I guarantee that a major goal for you in raising your kids was to teach them personal responsibility and there's a reason you did that.

If anything, I would say rural people have it the worst with systemic healthcare accessibility but they're mostly white so we don't care about them. Plus, they don't tend to complain.

Stop with you're not a minority so you don't know blah blah blah. Whites are a minority in NYC, especially with the bridge and tunnel crowd. I had to fight because of the color of my skin and dealt with plenty of racist nonsense. So what?

How about this? Eat healthy, exercise, don't smoke, drink, or use drugs. Control your emotions in positive ways, try to have positive relationships with people and your community. Spend time in and appreciate nature. Stay hydrated with water. Be mentally and physically disciplined. Stay away from processed, etc. Do these things and you're much more likely to be healthy and happy and not depend on the healthcare system. Money may help but it doesn't dictate anyone's life.

 

[Ferrismonk]

I understand what you're saying, and I understand some people think DEI is a good idea, but I have issue with the following:

"Also, hiring and retaining a workforce that is representative of the patient population served."
"encouraging the presence of a diverse healthcare staff in the treatment experience of patients."

 

[deleted131481]

Damn straight I'm putting health care discrepancies on the individual and not on any systemic racist origins. Not only that but I'll go a step further again and say that you're causing far more harm than good by doing what you're doing. You're alleviating personal responsibility and this is unhealthy for people and for society. I guarantee that a major goal for you in raising your kids was to teach them personal responsibility and there's a reason you did that.

If anything, I would say rural people have it the worst with systemic healthcare accessibility but they're mostly white so we don't care about them. Plus, they don't tend to complain.

Stop with you're not a minority so you don't know blah blah blah. Whites are a minority in NYC, especially with the bridge and tunnel crowd. I had to fight because of the color of my skin and dealt with plenty of racist nonsense. So what?

How about this? Eat healthy, exercise, don't smoke, drink, or use drugs. Control your emotions in positive ways, try to have positive relationships with people and your community. Spend time in and appreciate nature. Stay hydrated with water. Be mentally and physically disciplined. Stay away from processed, etc. Do these things and you're much more likely to be healthy and happy and not depend on the healthcare system. Money may help but it doesn't dictate anyone's life.

It costs twice as much and takes double the time to eat healthy food as compared to cheap processed junk food. Self-discipline is taught and learned through many years. Many people simply don't have the skills and self-discipline to execute the above.

Farmers already get heavy subsidies. I'd like to see taxes on processed foods, soda, etc and subsidies for unprocessed food.

Japan used to have an 'obesity tax.' Something similar but with a modest tax incentive would be great. If you are below a certain BMI, or can accomplish some level of fitness you are eligible.

 

[Pain Applicant1]

It costs twice as much and takes double the time to eat healthy food as compared to cheap processed junk food. Self-discipline is taught and learned through many years. Many people simply don't have the skills and self-discipline to execute the above.

Farmers already get heavy subsidies. I'd like to see taxes on processed foods, soda, etc and subsidies for unprocessed food.

Japan used to have an 'obesity tax.' Something similar but with a modest tax incentive would be great. If you are below a certain BMI, or can accomplish some level of fitness you are eligible.

This again? Eating healthy is not expensive and is a lot less expensive than fast food. Should I give examples one more time? Certainly cost less than the ETOH and tob which many of the same people spend money on. Besides, this would make it a class-based issue, and not a race-based one. I would be more supportive of programs helping ALL people based on economic disadvantages - and not based on race.

An obesity tax may be a good idea but would never fly in this country for many reasons. People would say it's fat shaming, discriminatory, etc.

 

[deleted131481]

20 frozen taquitos are going to cost about $8 and take 2 minutes to heat up. When we eat salmon, quinoa, and asparagus I'm guessing it costs around $20 and 40 min of prep, cooking, etc. We could replace the salmon with mass produce chicken but still probably sit at $10-$12. If we want to snack after, some apples and berries are going to cost a few dollars vs a couple bags of chips or cereal at $1.

Sure I could eat oatmeal and beans all day and save $$. May as well eat Soylent green.

And nothing against oatmeal or beans, I certainly eat plenty of both!

Edit to add: agree with the tobacco/etoh expenses that could be used for healthy eating. This goes back to self-control. And yes it's an economic issue at its root, not race.

 

[Pain Applicant1]

Some people would argue that eating vegetarian is a healthier way to live and it's not definitely not limited to oatmeal and beans. Any bag of grains, for the most part, ends up costing pennies per meal. To use your example of quinoa: Great Value Organic Tri-Color Quinoa, 16 oz is $3.36 for 10 servings so 33 cents each. Make a batch at the beginning of the week so you have it stored if you're hard-pressed for time. There's also millet, barley, buckwheat, brown rice, whole wheat, etc or other legumes like lentils- pennies on the dollar. 2 lbs of frozen salmon is $13.98 for 8 servings so $1.75 per serving. Frozen spinach, broccoli, cauliflower, etc runs about $1 for 4 servings. Frozen chicken drumsticks are a bit over $1 per pound. These prices are from Walmart and 90% of the population lives within 15 minutes of one and 70% live within 5 miles.

If people don't want to put a little more time into eating healthily that's fine but that's on them and it's not a systemic thing. If they're too lazy to put the effort in and can't control their food intake they have no one to blame but themselves. I shouldn't be responsible for their choices and I don't expect them to be responsible for mine.

You can't cherry-pick certain foods to make your comparison. It's not fair to do that. Obviously, caviar, lobster, and filet mignon every night is not affordable for most people but this has nothing to do with eating healthily.

----

What's the time issue have to do with anything anyway? I know plenty of poor people receiving welfare benefits. Most of these people have far more free time than richer people who spend most of their time working.

 

[deleted131481]

There needs to be some variety. I didn't cherry pick. I stated a typical meal for me, with prices at my local Kroger. I don't think it's an extravagant meal. Sure a savvy shopper can eat frozen cauliflower and drumsticks every night relatively cheap.

Nothing wrong with more time - I think it makes dinner more enjoyable. Plenty have the time, but many others with jobs and young children may be limited. It's something those with more money or a spouse at home can more easily accommodate.

 

[emergentmd]

Some people would argue that eating vegetarian is a healthier way to live and it's not definitely not limited to oatmeal and beans. Any bag of grains, for the most part, ends up costing pennies per meal. To use your example of quinoa: Great Value Organic Tri-Color Quinoa, 16 oz is $3.36 for 10 servings so 33 cents each. Make a batch at the beginning of the week so you have it stored if you're hard-pressed for time. There's also millet, barley, buckwheat, brown rice, whole wheat, etc or other legumes like lentils- pennies on the dollar. 2 lbs of frozen salmon is $13.98 for 8 servings so $1.75 per serving. Frozen spinach, broccoli, cauliflower, etc runs about $1 for 4 servings. Frozen chicken drumsticks are a bit over $1 per pound. These prices are from Walmart and 90% of the population lives within 15 minutes of one and 70% live within 5 miles.

If people don't want to put a little more time into eating healthily that's fine but that's on them and it's not a systemic thing. If they're too lazy to put the effort in and can't control their food intake they have no one to blame but themselves. I shouldn't be responsible for their choices and I don't expect them to be responsible for mine.

You can't cherry-pick certain foods to make your comparison. It's not fair to do that. Obviously, caviar, lobster, and filet mignon every night is not affordable for most people but this has nothing to do with eating healthily.

----

What's the time issue have to do with anything anyway? I know plenty of poor people receiving welfare benefits. Most of these people have far more free time than richer people who spend most of their time working.

If people can't use racism, inequality, environment, bias, sexual orientation, food scarcity as reasons then people will have to face reality of their failures. No, no, no.... we can't have that. How will people like Ben Crump have a job?

I mean, how dare a family sacrifice a 2nd income to stay home to teach their kids how to be adults. No no no, it is just not fair that other families have to have 2 working parents to enjoy the vacations, new cars, new phones, big homes.

 

[Pain Applicant1]

There needs to be some variety. I didn't cherry pick. I stated a typical meal for me, with prices at my local Kroger. I don't think it's an extravagant meal. Sure a savvy shopper can eat frozen cauliflower and drumsticks every night relatively cheap.

Nothing wrong with more time - I think it makes dinner more enjoyable. Plenty have the time, but many others with jobs and young children may be limited. It's something those with more money or a spouse at home can more easily accommodate.

Sorry for the long response but...

you did it again. You're trying to make eating healthy, inexpensive food look difficult or inaccessible for lower-income people when it's far from both. You're trying to make it look dull and repetitive because you're attempting to show that it's not practical to eat healthy for these folks and therefore any effects of their diet choices are not their responsibility but a societal one. You're repeating a fallacy to make your point despite that I've already listed about a dozen foods to show you this isn't the case.

Here are a few more: Tomato sauce ~30 cents per serving. Whole wheat pasta ~.30 a serving. Whole wheat bread ~.08 a serving. Eggs go for about 12 cents each. Shrimp is about $1.66 a serving. Frozen Talapia filets a little over a $1 per pound. Frozen catfish nuggets ~.70 cents per pound. Dry garbanzo and other legumes ~3 cents per serving. Whole grain oatmeal about 13 cents per serving. Sweet potatoes are maybe 40 cents each. True Potatoes are even less. Cheese is pennies per slice. We can keep going....

We haven't even talked about healthy oils and spices but from what I listed you can make hundreds if not thousands of different meals that are healthy, low calorie, and dirt cheap. Plenty of variety, healthy protein, fiber, and fats all the way around.

The bottom line is that people don't eat healthily because they don't want to. Processed food tastes better to them. That's why people eat it. It's one hundred percent their choice and there is no other reason. Anything else is just disingenuous or even demagoguery.

I don't understand why it's so hard for left-leaning people to hold certain groups of people responsible for their decisions. It's strange. Instead of admitting that you were wrong and trying to come up with practical solutions, you will probably invent another reason like @Ducttape did last time by linking a ridiculous article about food being the only indulgence poorer people have. This isn't true either, they indulge a lot more than you and I do btw.

---

If, after all of this, you still don't believe me, set up a food bank and give people food for free. Put down a variety of food and see what people choose first.

 

[emergentmd]

My family grew up super poor. Think poor now, and then go down a few more levels. Poor where I never saw a vacation outside of going to the local park. Poor where off brand clothes were cherished. Poor where going to Mcdonalds on a field trip was like going to a 5 star steak house.

BUT my parents always had us well fed. I never felt hungry. NEVER. I never felt "food insecure" But I guess by today's definition, I was food insecure b/c I can't have food 24 hrs a day.

Looking back now, my parents always had a garden. We always had a protein/meat at every meal. Fridge always had left overs to heat up.

It takes time/effort like everything in life, you have to compete and have cheat codes.

 

[Doctodd]

 

[Pain Applicant1]

Did someone mention a garden and food? I don't want to come across as bragging but check out the organic garlic I just harvested from my garden. I put the cloves in last November and harvested them a few days ago. Probably the easiest crop to grow if anyone has any interest. I'm drying them out so I can braid them together. They should store and we should have enough to eat until next year's harvest. I'm going to keep the biggest bulbs for planting next season so I can breed them into cultivars of big plump bulbs.

 

[deleted131481]

Sorry for the long response but...

you did it again. You're trying to make eating healthy, inexpensive food look difficult or inaccessible for lower-income people when it's far from both. You're trying to make it look dull and repetitive because you're attempting to show that it's not practical to eat healthy for these folks and therefore any effects of their diet choices are not their responsibility but a societal one. You're repeating a fallacy to make your point despite that I've already listed about a dozen foods to show you this isn't the case.

Here are a few more: Tomato sauce ~30 cents per serving. Whole wheat pasta ~.30 a serving. Whole wheat bread ~.08 a serving. Eggs go for about 12 cents each. Shrimp is about $1.66 a serving. Frozen Talapia filets a little over a $1 per pound. Frozen catfish nuggets ~.70 cents per pound. Dry garbanzo and other legumes ~3 cents per serving. Whole grain oatmeal about 13 cents per serving. Sweet potatoes are maybe 40 cents each. True Potatoes are even less. Cheese is pennies per slice. We can keep going....

We haven't even talked about healthy oils and spices but from what I listed you can make hundreds if not thousands of different meals that are healthy, low calorie, and dirt cheap. Plenty of variety, healthy protein, fiber, and fats all the way around.

The bottom line is that people don't eat healthily because they don't want to. Processed food tastes better to them. That's why people eat it. It's one hundred percent their choice and there is no other reason. Anything else is just disingenuous or even demagoguery.

I don't understand why it's so hard for left-leaning people to hold certain groups of people responsible for their decisions. It's strange. Instead of admitting that you were wrong and trying to come up with practical solutions, you will probably invent another reason like @Ducttape did last time by linking a ridiculous article about food being the only indulgence poorer people have. This isn't true either, they indulge a lot more than you and I do btw.

---

If, after all of this, you still don't believe me, set up a food bank and give people food for free. Put down a variety of food and see what people choose first.

You are projecting. Read my posts again.

I am simply stating it is harder on multiple fronts for the poor to eat healthy. Sure it can be done. But it takes significant time, money, and often both. I don't have time to look at all your prices but bread where I am is $4 per loaf unless you are getting ultra processed stuff. Likewise eggs, tomato sauce, etc higher than you listed. I am in a LCOL area. Sure sticking to potatoes and cabbage is healthier - citrus, berries, other produce are substantially more.

I am not making excuses for anyone or absolving them of personal responsibility. I am simply making the point it is much easier for people with means to eat healthy than those without. There is some arrogance to calling the poor who eat unhealthy lazy and undisciplined when we don't have to think twice about buying strawberries and they do.

 

[buddababa]

Did someone mention a garden and food? I don't want to come across as bragging but check out the organic garlic I just harvested from my garden. I put the cloves in last November and harvested them a few days ago. Probably the easiest crop to grow if anyone has any interest. I'm drying them out so I can braid them together. They should store and we should have enough to eat until next year's harvest. I'm going to keep the biggest bulbs for planting next season so I can breed them into cultivars of big plump bulbs.

View attachment 372709

this is awesome. wish i could do this. Darn HOA doesn't allow growing your own food...

 

[deleted131481]

As far as practical solutions, I'm not sure how you hold people personally responsible to effect any meaningful change. Telling my patients to eat healthier and exercise doesn't get very far.

I'd like to see tax on added sugar as you would smoking. Stop corn subsidies and subsidize healthier types of foods instead.

 

[Ducttape]

I understand what you're saying, and I understand some people think DEI is a good idea, but I have issue with the following:

"Also, hiring and retaining a workforce that is representative of the patient population served."
"encouraging the presence of a diverse healthcare staff in the treatment experience of patients."

it is not unreasonable for an office that sees women and/or minorities to have some staff that are women and minorities. would a woman feel comfortable being seen in an office that had an all male staff - gynecologist, APP, nurse, male secretary, without at least one representative female?

yes yes i know you are going to say "well we hire the most qualified people" but that begs the question - as there are many qualified minorities just begging to be hired. and obviously an office can have no minority staff, but they can use DEI to make up for the lack of actual diversity, to better understand other cultures and make patients feel like they are represented.

Damn straight I'm putting health care discrepancies on the individual and not on any systemic racist origins. Not only that but I'll go a step further again and say that you're causing far more harm than good by doing what you're doing. You're alleviating personal responsibility and this is unhealthy for people and for society. I guarantee that a major goal for you in raising your kids was to teach them personal responsibility and there's a reason you did that.

If anything, I would say rural people have it the worst with systemic healthcare accessibility but they're mostly white so we don't care about them. Plus, they don't tend to complain.

Stop with you're not a minority so you don't know blah blah blah. Whites are a minority in NYC, especially with the bridge and tunnel crowd. I had to fight because of the color of my skin and dealt with plenty of racist nonsense. So what?

How about this? Eat healthy, exercise, don't smoke, drink, or use drugs. Control your emotions in positive ways, try to have positive relationships with people and your community. Spend time in and appreciate nature. Stay hydrated with water. Be mentally and physically disciplined. Stay away from processed, etc. Do these things and you're much more likely to be healthy and happy and not depend on the healthcare system. Money may help but it doesn't dictate anyone's life.

i hate to say this, but you are making the situation racist.


DEI includes being sensitive to the specific needs of rural people. do you think it is appropriate for a NYC guy to come down to rural Appalachia who refuses to relate to rural problems such as access to healthcare? "get a friggin' Ubah to get to youse doctahs, ya loser" is sure going to go over well.

your last paragraph is classic. Maybe you think it extreme, but what if you grew up in an environment where everyone smoked, everyone drank, everyone used drugs, where the only exercise was one hardcourt basketball court that you had to earn your way on to play. where if you showed signs of empathy, you get bullied and beaten up. where the expectations were that to make it, you were expected by your peers to join one of the street gangs after dropping out of school at age 14 and sell drugs until you OD'd or were gunned down. where the average girl got pregnant at age 16 and end up raising that kid by herself with no male parental figure around.

In addition, in terms of poor eating habits - I think we are all aware that poor quality food has addictive properties - ie high fructose corn syrup and the like. There have been some interesting studies that suggest the reason why lower SES families allow use of these poor quality foods stems from the psychological "benefits"/highs that kids get from eating food as a replacement for not being able to provide other forms of enjoyment.... whether true or not...



In the end, your blithe statements will come across to a minority as a rich white mans solution with no thought of D,E, or I in to their lives.

 

[SSdoc33]

should be interesting to see how SCOTUS rules on the affirmative action case

im center-left. not super progressive. and i think affirmative action should be gone. not fair to east or south asians or poor white kids.

if you want give an advantage in college admissions based on economics indingency, that would more reasonable.

that being said, private companies may have different priorities in hiring.....

 

[Pain Applicant1]

You are projecting. Read my posts again.

I am simply stating it is harder on multiple fronts for the poor to eat healthy. Sure it can be done. But it takes significant time, money, and often both. I don't have time to look at all your prices but bread where I am is $4 per loaf unless you are getting ultra processed stuff. Likewise eggs, tomato sauce, etc higher than you listed. I am in a LCOL area. Sure sticking to potatoes and cabbage is healthier - citrus, berries, other produce are substantially more.

I am not making excuses for anyone or absolving them of personal responsibility. I am simply making the point it is much easier for people with means to eat healthy than those without. There is some arrogance to calling the poor who eat unhealthy lazy and undisciplined when we don't have to think twice about buying strawberries and they do.

You feel that way because that's what you want to believe but I just showed you that it's not the case. More effort, fine - but definitely not significantly more effort or time. We're talking about the same effort that these people don't want to put in. That's fine if they don't but that's their issue and not mine.

I'm also going to have to bust you on the berries, sorry. Frozen blueberries are about $1 per serving. Frozen raspberries just a bit more.

Try the food bank experiment and let me know what you think. See if the cinnamon rolls or the whole wheat pasta goes first.

FWIW, I have several section 8 tenants. I also have a church with a food bank as a tenant. These are where my opinions are coming from.

Do you socialize or even know anyone who receives welfare benefits? How about even anyone without a college degree? If not, your impression of this class may be a bit skewed.

You really don't have the few seconds to check out the walmart site? Here, I'll do it for you.

 

[Pain Applicant1]

it is not unreasonable for an office that sees women and/or minorities to have some staff that are women and minorities. would a woman feel comfortable being seen in an office that had an all male staff - gynecologist, APP, nurse, male secretary, without at least one representative female?

yes yes i know you are going to say "well we hire the most qualified people" but that begs the question - as there are many qualified minorities just begging to be hired. and obviously an office can have no minority staff, but they can use DEI to make up for the lack of actual diversity, to better understand other cultures and make patients feel like they are represented.


i hate to say this, but you are making the situation racist.


DEI includes being sensitive to the specific needs of rural people. do you think it is appropriate for a NYC guy to come down to rural Appalachia who refuses to relate to rural problems such as access to healthcare? "get a friggin' Ubah to get to youse doctahs, ya loser" is sure going to go over well.

your last paragraph is classic. Maybe you think it extreme, but what if you grew up in an environment where everyone smoked, everyone drank, everyone used drugs, where the only exercise was one hardcourt basketball court that you had to earn your way on to play. where if you showed signs of empathy, you get bullied and beaten up. where the expectations were that to make it, you were expected by your peers to join one of the street gangs after dropping out of school at age 14 and sell drugs until you OD'd or were gunned down. where the average girl got pregnant at age 16 and end up raising that kid by herself with no male parental figure around.

In addition, in terms of poor eating habits - I think we are all aware that poor quality food has addictive properties - ie high fructose corn syrup and the like. There have been some interesting studies that suggest the reason why lower SES families allow use of these poor quality foods stems from the psychological "benefits"/highs that kids get from eating food as a replacement for not being able to provide other forms of enjoyment.... whether true or not...



In the end, your blithe statements will come across to a minority as a rich white mans solution with no thought of D,E, or I in to their lives.

I'm not talking specifically about race. I'm talking about the choices that any individual makes about their own personal food choices. Everyone can exercise and eat healthy if they want to. The reason they don't is because they don't want to and/or they don't want to put the effort in. In typical lib fashion, you're trying to cram race into it so you can paint me as a racist to support your argument because you know that I checkmated both you and ragnathor on the diet issue.

---

You're also injecting a group's culture into the equation. You're at least now getting closer to identifying the correct problem for certain communities and because of a variety of reasons, this is very complicated to address. Refer to my statement above about the lose/lose situation.

I've already told you that I was the minority growing up and I literally grew up in the most diverse place in the world, at least it was at that time. Google Queens NY if you want to. That means that many of my friends growing up were black and hispanic kids so I'm very familiar with both cultures. That's how I learned enough spanish to work with some of the people I currently work with. Yo se bastante.

 

[Pain Applicant1]

this is awesome. wish i could do this. Darn HOA doesn't allow growing your own food...

You can if you want. Fortunately, most people don't know anything about plants. Line up the garlic in your garden. The HOA will think the leaves are decorative and won't know any better. PS. I hate HOAs!!!!

 

[deleted131481]

You feel that way because that's what you want to believe but I just showed you that it's not the case. More effort, fine - but definitely not significantly more effort or time. We're talking about the same effort that these people don't want to put in. That's fine if they don't but that's their issue and not mine.

I'm also going to have to bust you on the berries, sorry. Frozen blueberries are about $1 per serving. Frozen raspberries just a bit more.

Try the food bank experiment and let me know what you think. See if the cinnamon rolls or the whole wheat pasta goes first.

FWIW, I have several section 8 tenants. I also have a church with a food bank as a tenant. These are where my opinions are coming from.

Do you socialize or even know anyone who receives welfare benefits? How about even anyone without a college degree? If not, your impression of this class may be a bit skewed.

You really don't have the few seconds to check out the walmart site? Here, I'll do it for you.


View attachment 372711View attachment 372712

So .08 cents of that bread is a serving? Is that even one slice? Check the added sugar. It's better than white bread but certainly not unprocessed. Sorry frozen blueberries as an after dinner snack is different than fresh. I personally am too lazy to make it into a smoothie vs reaching in the fridge and eating immediately. Amount of effort needed for the average person is irrelevant if the change isn't happening.

You think your personal experience and anecdote is applicable across the country. I have plenty of weekly interaction with working class people on Medicaid or living paycheck to paycheck without college degrees outside of clinic. We occasionally volunteer at a hot meal food truck. That doesn't make me any more qualified on eating habits of the poor as you seem to think.

People are already paying for their food choices with poor personal health, and we are paying with healthcare taxes and welfare. Your credo of personal responsibility, mental toughness, and telling people not to be lazy doesn't work and accomplishes nothing. Change must be either be legislated or start from the POV of those being targeted.