I don’t have a great title for this bs

[DMBandFan86]

Does it really matter, the 2 sides will never agree.

If you’re conservative you want to help by incentivizing people to get out of poverty. Which means a lot of people get left behind. Bad for votes.

If you’re liberal, you want to help bring people out of poverty. Which means a lot of people stay impoverished without incentive to do better. You tell them it’s not their fault and it’s someone else’s. Good for votes.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Pain Applicant1]

actually, my patient population is about 60% medicaid - which means they are at the federal poverty level.

i know where these patients live, and most live a mile or more from the nearest Walmart. the closest "grocery store" for most of them are mom and pop convenience stores or Dollar General. most cannot afford a car because of the insurance.

when i was at a Dollar Tree (in my suburban neighborhood) last week, there were no frozen berries. obviously no fresh vegetables. you could by a forzen empanada for $1.25, or cans of dinty more corned beef. there was frozen meat and the packages had like 3-4 ounces of meat in it. there were 12 ounce packages of spaghetti and 1 pound bags of rice for 1.25 at least. there were eggs and butter at least.

there were frozen raspberry slushies for a dollar. frozen milky way bars. all sorts of chips. cake mix. insta ramen. tons of candy. tons of other temptations that you had to walk past to get to the refrigerated section that was marginally healthier.

so one is expecting these individuals to walk at least a mile or two in urban americana to get to walmart and transport that stuff home, or just go to Dollar General to get something, most of which is junk food. ease and convenience will almost always trump healthy eating.


i question your current real world experience with urban living. the queens NY you grew up living in in 1990s was 58% white, where it is only 26% white now. Queens has the lowest poverty rate amongst the 5 boroughs of NYC.

Funny that you're questioning my life experience when you consistently come across as a disconnected academic snob and you've been accused of this by more people than just me.

I grew up in flushing, Queens and was zoned for Jamaica high school. Feel free to look it up. I had to illegally fake my address with a utility bill to change my school zoning.

Dollar general has those things because of something called demand. If people demanded more canned vegetables than raspberry slushies than that's what would be sold in those stores. Canned vegetables are usually sold for less than one dollar and can typically be found in dollar stores anyway but ultimately demand is what stores are going to respond to.

I don't feel bad for someone that has to walk one or two miles in an urban area to buy groceries. They can also take public transportation. That's what I had to do and is pretty commonplace in cities. I didn't own a car until my third year of college. My wife, who grew up in the Bronx, never owned a car and first drove when she moved here with me. What's the bfd?

Seriously, next time you're working at a food bank do an experiment. Tell people they get one choice only. See if the fresh cauliflower and broccoli sell out first or if the chocolate cupcakes and cinnabuns do.

 

[Pain Applicant1]

you made this about food. you and you alone.

i have been discussing diversity and the fact that patients who come in to an office and have an appointment/ interaction with someone who shows no knowledge or interest at all in their lives, their problems, or how they live is going to adversely affect their experiences, and will turn them off to following through with any of the treatments recommended.


using the term loosely, diverse culture is the reason we should have diversity training. im sorry it took you so long to recognize what DEI is supposed to help with and what has been advocated.

I don't know what you're implying with the dei. I was responding to ragnathor's comment regarding food. These threads always go off in several directions.

 

[Baron Samedi]

Funny that you're questioning my life experience when you consistently come across as a disconnected academic snob and you've been accused of this by more people than just me.

I grew up in flushing, Queens and was zoned for Jamaica high school. Feel free to look it up. I had to illegally fake my address with a utility bill to change my school zoning.

Dollar general has those things because of something called demand. If people demanded more canned vegetables than raspberry slushies than that's what would be sold in those stores. Canned vegetables are usually sold for less than one dollar and can typically be found in dollar stores anyway but ultimately demand is what stores are going to respond to.

I don't feel bad for someone that has to walk one or two miles in an urban area to buy groceries. They can also take public transportation. That's what I had to do and is pretty commonplace in cities. I didn't own a car until my third year of college. My wife, who grew up in the Bronx, never owned a car and first drove when she moved here with me. What's the bfd?

Seriously, next time you're working at a food bank do an experiment. Tell people they get one choice only. See if the fresh cauliflower and broccoli sell out first or if the chocolate cupcakes and cinnabuns do.

Grocery stores are also less accessible in black neighborhoods. Many are considered "food deserts."

 

[Pain Applicant1]

The other main issue is healthy, good quality food is simply more expensive and is likely unaffordable for most people. Furthermore, it has to be prepared, which takes up time and makes it inconvenient to consume.

Why is it more expensive and take more time? I just gave numerous examples of why this isn't true.

 

[Pain Applicant1]

Grocery stores are also less accessible in black neighborhoods. Many are considered "food deserts."

Convenient stores, bodegas, etc are still going to respond to demand. Otherwise, they won't stay in business. No point in having a bag of carrots take up shelf space if there are no buyers for it.

My main point is that systemic issues are not the reason people don't eat healthy. When libs like ducttape and you promote this type of thinking you contribute to animus, and you try to make it a racial issue.

If there is a systemic issue of inaccessibility, it most likely affects poor rural white people far more than anyone else. You know, the same people who Dave Chappelle referred to as dusty.

I'm in no way poor, but I am dusty and I'm dusty because unlike Chappelle (who I like a lot) I work doing hard labor and not just by telling jokes.

 

[Baron Samedi]

Convenient stores, bodegas, etc are still going to respond to demand. Otherwise, they won't stay in business. No point in having a bag of carrots take up shelf space if there are no buyers for it.

My main point is that systemic issues are not the reason people don't eat healthy. When libs like ducttape and you promote this type of thinking you contribute to animus, and you try to make it a racial issue.

If there is a systemic issue of inaccessibility, it most likely affects poor rural white people far more than anyone else. You know, the same people who Dave Chappelle referred to as dusty.

I'm in no way poor, but I am dusty and I'm dusty because unlike Chappelle (who I like a lot) I work doing hard labor and not just by telling jokes.

Alright, have a good one!

 

[anonperson]

Black neighborhoods have higher access to fast food, independent of poverty levels. Why might that be? They were methodically and specifically targeted to make it that way.

The federal government under Nixon/Johnson subsidized fast food restaurants to incentivize them to open up franchises in black neighborhoods. While it did lift the (often black) franchise owners into the bourgeoisie, it has had lasting effects on those areas. Cheap, accessible, and addictive food became the go-to and drove healthier and locally-owned options out.

For those suggesting that the problem lies with black people themselves, consider that there is a higher percentage of black people embracing plant-based diets than in any other ethnic group (more than double).

Nixon was president nearly 50 years ago.

We're going to blame persistent obesity because of this? Then there's no solution because we can keep pointing to the past as an excuse for anything.

Grocery stores are also less accessible in black neighborhoods. Many are considered "food deserts."

Hmm. So the hypothesis is corporations, which have a sole responsibility to maximize earnings, are ignoring black neighborhoods because of racism.

Why don't I buy that.

What is the more realistic answer is that several corporations have tried with little success:

Aldi closes one Memphis location due to crime

MEMPHIS, Tenn.– Aldi has decided to close one of its grocery stores in Memphis, the company announced Thursday. The company said it has decided to close its store located at 2877 Lamar Avenue…

www.google.com

What grocers can learn from Whole Foods’ controversial exit from a Chicago neighborhood

The chain’s tenancy in the Englewood community highlights the opportunities and pitfalls grocers can face in areas with limited access to affordable and healthy foods.

www.grocerydive.com

Chicago Walmart stores closing: Why some big box stores can't turn a profit in urban areas

Walmart announced Tuesday that the company is closing four stores in Chicago.

www.google.com

Target Store Closings Show Limits of Pledge to Black Communities (Published 2021)

The shuttering of a store in Baltimore is a sobering reminder of the realities of capitalism in a moment when corporations are promising to support Black Americans.

www.nytimes.com

There are numerous examples of this. They aren't leaving because of racism. These companies want to maximize profits. Opening up in these food deserts should be a no brainier.

Theft, increased security costs etc makes it unprofitable. If you try to enforce laws, then people yell that you're targeting people of color.

But we can keep making excuses after excuse.

 

[Baron Samedi]

Nixon was president nearly 50 years ago.

We're going to blame persistent obesity because of this? Then there's no solution because we can keep pointing to the past as an excuse for anything.



Hmm. So the hypothesis is corporations, which have a sole responsibility to maximize earnings, are ignoring black neighborhoods because of racism.

Why don't I buy that.

What is the more realistic answer is that several corporations have tried with little success:

Aldi closes one Memphis location due to crime

MEMPHIS, Tenn.– Aldi has decided to close one of its grocery stores in Memphis, the company announced Thursday. The company said it has decided to close its store located at 2877 Lamar Avenue…

www.google.com

What grocers can learn from Whole Foods’ controversial exit from a Chicago neighborhood

The chain’s tenancy in the Englewood community highlights the opportunities and pitfalls grocers can face in areas with limited access to affordable and healthy foods.

www.grocerydive.com

Chicago Walmart stores closing: Why some big box stores can't turn a profit in urban areas

Walmart announced Tuesday that the company is closing four stores in Chicago.

www.google.com

Target Store Closings Show Limits of Pledge to Black Communities (Published 2021)

The shuttering of a store in Baltimore is a sobering reminder of the realities of capitalism in a moment when corporations are promising to support Black Americans.

www.nytimes.com

There are numerous examples of this. They aren't leaving because of racism. These companies want to maximize profits. Opening up in these food deserts should be a no brainier.

Theft, increased security costs etc makes it unprofitable. If you try to enforce laws, then people yell that you're targeting people of color.

But we can keep making excuses after excuse.

I never mentioned racism as a factor. I just stated the fact that healthy food options are less accessible in black neighborhoods. You are just arguing my point.

 

[Ducttape]

Funny that you're questioning my life experience when you consistently come across as a disconnected academic snob and you've been accused of this by more people than just me.

I grew up in flushing, Queens and was zoned for Jamaica high school. Feel free to look it up. I had to illegally fake my address with a utility bill to change my school zoning.

Dollar general has those things because of something called demand. If people demanded more canned vegetables than raspberry slushies than that's what would be sold in those stores. Canned vegetables are usually sold for less than one dollar and can typically be found in dollar stores anyway but ultimately demand is what stores are going to respond to.

I don't feel bad for someone that has to walk one or two miles in an urban area to buy groceries. They can also take public transportation. That's what I had to do and is pretty commonplace in cities. I didn't own a car until my third year of college. My wife, who grew up in the Bronx, never owned a car and first drove when she moved here with me. What's the bfd?

Seriously, next time you're working at a food bank do an experiment. Tell people they get one choice only. See if the fresh cauliflower and broccoli sell out first or if the chocolate cupcakes and cinnabuns do.

again posting to imply that your life experiences is anything what a minority's is like.


i agree that almost everyone would take the cupcakes and cinnabons. but what is more immediately satisfying, the cupcakes or the broccoli? which is more exciting to children? which has more calories, albeit empty? which is more likely to be effective in boosting a person's dopamine levels?

remember when you were a medical resident? would you want broccoli, or would you want a bagel? did you want cauliflower, or did you want donuts and coffee?




unhealthy food laden with processed sugars and refined grains are addicting.

what type of food is most prevalent in these areas? what easy action can parents do to make their children feel happier by feeding their cravings for instant - empty - calories?

 

[Ducttape]

Nixon was president nearly 50 years ago.

We're going to blame persistent obesity because of this? Then there's no solution because we can keep pointing to the past as an excuse for anything.

we are still affected by multiple long term decisions made by nixon.

shining example: the war on drugs. specifically initiated to target minorities (and probably liberals of the hippie crowd).

eonomically, here is an article from one of the least biased sources:

The Day That Richard Nixon Changed U.S. Economic Policy Forever

Fifty years ago, in response to rising inflation, he rejected several long-standing practices. His Keynesian turn holds lessons for today’s economy.

newrepublic.com

Hmm. So the hypothesis is corporations, which have a sole responsibility to maximize earnings, are ignoring black neighborhoods because of racism.

Why don't I buy that.

they are all opening branches in which there is already not a lot of money.

should corporations sole responsibility be to maximizing profits? this is an important question. now i am not an economist, but is the Friedman Doctrine really how we should run our economy? because it has contributed to our huge financial inequity and potentially many social ills.


of note, it was put out by Friedman in 1970. when nixon was in power...

 

[Pain Applicant1]

again posting to imply that your life experiences is anything what a minority's is like.


i agree that almost everyone would take the cupcakes and cinnabons. but what is more immediately satisfying, the cupcakes or the broccoli? which is more exciting to children? which has more calories, albeit empty? which is more likely to be effective in boosting a person's dopamine levels?

remember when you were a medical resident? would you want broccoli, or would you want a bagel? did you want cauliflower, or did you want donuts and coffee?




unhealthy food laden with processed sugars and refined grains are addicting.

what type of food is most prevalent in these areas? what easy action can parents do to make their children feel happier by feeding their cravings for instant - empty - calories?

Right, that's where discipline comes into play, for everyone. Everyone knows which foods are healthier. Everyone knows tob use is unhealthy. Ultimately, it's up to each individual to decide what to put into their own bodies and again, those foods are there because that's the demand from the people who patronize that store.

---
No thank you on the coffee and donuts. I don't drink coffee and rarely eat donuts but I know what you're saying.

---

On a slightly different note... as counterintuitive as it may sound, I feel best when I'm hungry and losing weight. I'm not anorexic and I don't have an eating disorder but I feel most robust and energetic when I have a significant caloric deficit going on. Once I'm over the initial cravings for food, hunger becomes very tolerable and manageable. It just becomes another sensation to deal with. I feel my strongest and like I can take on the world when I'm in that state. Anyone else have opinions on this?

----

I like competition because I find it motivating. Anyone want to engage in a weight loss competition with me for fun? It might be exciting and something to look forward to. The more people who do it the better it will be and it might make all of us a lot healthier. We can post pics in 6 months to help us stick to our goals.

 

[SSdoc33]

On a slightly different note... as counterintuitive as it may sound, I feel best when I'm hungry and losing weight. I'm not anorexic and I don't have an eating disorder but I feel most robust and energetic when I have a significant caloric deficit going on. Once I'm over the initial cravings for food, hunger becomes very tolerable and manageable. It just becomes another sensation to deal with. I feel my strongest and like I can take on the world when I'm in that state. Anyone else have opinions on this?

on this point we do agree.

you have to have the underlying glycogen stores and baseline metabolism, however.

i go into my long workouts or races without a full stomach -- just refuel during the activity.

but there is a breaking point when you need the glucose or everything goes anaerobic. that cant last forever

 

[Doctodd]

Grocery stores are also less accessible in black neighborhoods. Many are considered "food deserts."

but they have small package stores with groceries(liquor stores)....yea not buying your reasong for it, whatever it is

 

[Baron Samedi]

but they have small package stores with groceries(liquor stores)....yea not buying your reasong for it, whatever it is

What liquor store do you go to that sells groceries?

On an interesting side note, black people drink alcoholic less on average than white people. The same is true for smoking cigarettes, consuming caffeine, and using marijuana.

 

[Doctodd]

What liquor store do you go to that sells groceries?

On an interesting side note, black people drink alcoholic less on average than white people. The same is true for smoking cigarettes, consuming caffeine, and using marijuana.

The small “package” stores similar to 7-11 but privately owned that I’ve seen in my areas have signs outside that say “beer” and “groceries” or similar on the wall/windows.

 

[Pain Applicant1]

What liquor store do you go to that sells groceries?

On an interesting side note, black people drink alcoholic less on average than white people. The same is true for smoking cigarettes, consuming caffeine, and using marijuana.

I bet opioid abuse too. Without googling it I would have to say it's most rampant with rural white males.

 

[cowboydoc]

but they have small package stores with groceries(liquor stores)....yea not buying your reasong for it, whatever it is

 

[lobelsteve]

What liquor store do you go to that sells groceries?

On an interesting side note, black people drink alcoholic less on average than white people. The same is true for smoking cigarettes, consuming caffeine, and using marijuana.

Nope. For tobacco.

Tobacco Use in Racial and Ethnic Populations

Tobacco use often takes a disproportionate toll on specific communities and populations.Get information on the prevalence of tobacco use in racial and ethnic populations, and key facts about some know

www.lung.org

Nope for heavy drinkers as well.

NIAAA Publications

pubs.niaaa.nih.gov

 

[Baron Samedi]

Nope. For tobacco.

Tobacco Use in Racial and Ethnic Populations

Tobacco use often takes a disproportionate toll on specific communities and populations.Get information on the prevalence of tobacco use in racial and ethnic populations, and key facts about some know

www.lung.org

Nope for heavy drinkers as well.

NIAAA Publications

pubs.niaaa.nih.gov

Ah, I was looking at slightly outdated CDC data for the smoking stats. My bad.

 

[lobelsteve]

Ah, I was looking at slightly outdated CDC data for the smoking stats. My bad.

Most of the data is close enough where there is probably no statistical difference.

 

[SSdoc33]

should be interesting to see how SCOTUS rules on the affirmative action case

im center-left. not super progressive. and i think affirmative action should be gone. not fair to east or south asians or poor white kids.

if you want give an advantage in college admissions based on economics indingency, that would more reasonable.

that being said, private companies may have different priorities in hiring.....

affirmative action is dead

US Supreme Court rejects affirmative action in university admissions

The U.S. Supreme Court on Thursday struck down race-conscious admissions programs at Harvard University and the University of North Carolina, effectively prohibiting affirmative action policies long used to raise the number of Black, Hispanic and other underrepresented minority students on...

www.reuters.com

it feels like this is a step forward, not backwards, in race relations. yet certain minorities are very unhappy with the decision.

this just does seem more fair. in several years, i will not doubt the qualifications of minorities AS MUCH as i had before. this feels like a step towards a more meritocratic system

 

[Agast]

affirmative action is dead

However, Affirmative Action is very much alive for military academies, and apparently actively encouraged

So what’s good for the goose is not good for the gander?

Service academies exempt from Supreme Court affirmative action ruling

"The potentially distinct interests" of service academies was a reason Chief Justice John Roberts cited as to not yet address their admissions practices.

www.militarytimes.com

“
Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in a footnote in the majority opinion, “No military academy is a party to these cases, however, and none of the courts below addressed the propriety of race-based admissions systems in that context.”

“This opinion also does not address the issue, in light of the potentially distinct interests that military academies may present.””


Why is diversity important to defense and security interests of the country but nowhere else?

 

[cowboydoc]

However, Affirmative Action is very much alive for military academies, and apparently actively encouraged

So what’s good for the goose is not good for the gander?

Service academies exempt from Supreme Court affirmative action ruling

"The potentially distinct interests" of service academies was a reason Chief Justice John Roberts cited as to not yet address their admissions practices.

www.militarytimes.com

“
Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in a footnote in the majority opinion, “No military academy is a party to these cases, however, and none of the courts below addressed the propriety of race-based admissions systems in that context.”

“This opinion also does not address the issue, in light of the potentially distinct interests that military academies may present.””


Why is diversity important to defense and security interests of the country but nowhere else?

What is really odd about this to me is the military was a forerunner in racial integration, long before it was “accepted” more broadly in society.

 

[emergentmd]

Food Desert - Lived in Europe and Asia for a decent amount of time. As many know, there are very little refrigeration, not easy to get around with cars. We walked almost every day to get groceries, meat/fish probably two miles back and forth. Back then we looked at it as a time to get some exercise, talk, and enjoy the surroundings. Americans call this a food desert.

Food insecurity - I am relatively fit, exercise 3+ times a week, and eat generally one big meal a day. My BMI is likely better than 80% of the population. I choose to intermittent fast and I feel better when I do this. I call skipping meals/lowering caloric intake as healthy yet most who are labeled food insecure are obese.

Truthfully, we need more fast food deserts. More Grocery deserts, and more food insecurity with one of most obese places on earth.

 

[anonperson]

Food Desert - Lived in Europe and Asia for a decent amount of time. As many know, there are very little refrigeration, not easy to get around with cars. We walked almost every day to get groceries, meat/fish probably two miles back and forth. Back then we looked at it as a time to get some exercise, talk, and enjoy the surroundings. Americans call this a food desert.

Food insecurity - I am relatively fit, exercise 3+ times a week, and eat generally one big meal a day. My BMI is likely better than 80% of the population. I choose to intermittent fast and I feel better when I do this. I call skipping meals/lowering caloric intake as healthy yet most who are labeled food insecure are obese.

Truthfully, we need more fast food deserts. More Grocery deserts, and more food insecurity with one of most obese places on earth.

Agreed. Being a bit hungry is okay. This concept seems to go over a lot of people's heads. There is this thought that if you aren't stuffed at every moment, you need to shovel food into your mouth.

 

[emergentmd]

Agreed. Being a bit hungry is okay. This concept seems to go over a lot of people's heads. There is this thought that if you aren't stuffed at every moment, you need to shovel food into your mouth.

Just came home from a flight. Family of 5 all morbidly obese. Dad prob in his 40's was in a wheelchair pushing 500lbs using an O2 tank requiring 2 seats. Rest of family going down to a similar path with youngest about 16. 4/5 were stuffing themselves with food essentially the whole time waiting. I have never seen food disappear so quickly.

I bet with certainty that they would declare themselves food insecure and live in a food desert eventhough the prob order fast food on a daily basis.

This food desert and insecurity are just two more words to make people feel better about their poor choices. We have housing insecure now. I am waiting on cash insecure pretty soon.

 

[bedrock]

Regarding affirmative action——Finally !!!!!

To quote the chief justice of the Supreme Court.

“The best way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race”

I’m not a fan of trump, but I can accept all the craziness of his term as president, because it did give us a Supreme Court in a way that actually represents the majority of Americans (not the self described elites).

The majority of Americans know that affirmative action is a ridiculous concept in the 21st century and highest court in the land made that law today.

It’s time america became a meritocracy again, instead of just pandering to whomever whines the most.

 

[Ducttape]

Food Desert - Lived in Europe and Asia for a decent amount of time. As many know, there are very little refrigeration, not easy to get around with cars. We walked almost every day to get groceries, meat/fish probably two miles back and forth. Back then we looked at it as a time to get some exercise, talk, and enjoy the surroundings. Americans call this a food desert.

Food insecurity - I am relatively fit, exercise 3+ times a week, and eat generally one big meal a day. My BMI is likely better than 80% of the population. I choose to intermittent fast and I feel better when I do this. I call skipping meals/lowering caloric intake as healthy yet most who are labeled food insecure are obese.

Truthfully, we need more fast food deserts. More Grocery deserts, and more food insecurity with one of most obese places on earth.

completely missing the point.

why walk 2 miles to get healthy food, take hour to do so, especially if you are using a walker or cane, or are worried about random gunfire or driveby shooting, when you can just literally go next door to the local convenience store, get a bag of highly processed food - made with high fructose corn syrup + hydrogenated oil slop - that gives instant dopamine release and oral gratification that will never come from a healthy meal, but will temporarily bring "joy" a depressing life with no hope for the future?


even those who want to eat healthy are surrounded by enticements that work against maintaining this lifestyle - McDonalds, BK, Wendys, KFC, Taco Hell, all around the corner. with kids who become addicted to the gratification asking constantly for instant satisfaction.....

 

[emergentmd]

completely missing the point.

why walk 2 miles to get healthy food, take hour to do so, especially if you are using a walker or cane, or are worried about random gunfire or driveby shooting, when you can just literally go next door to the local convenience store, get a bag of highly processed food - made with high fructose corn syrup + hydrogenated oil slop - that gives instant dopamine release and oral gratification that will never come from a healthy meal, but will temporarily bring "joy" a depressing life with no hope for the future?


even those who want to eat healthy are surrounded by enticements that work against maintaining this lifestyle - McDonalds, BK, Wendys, KFC, Taco Hell, all around the corner. with kids who become addicted to the gratification asking constantly for instant satisfaction.....

Trust me I get the point. But from your standpoint, there will always be excuses given before personal responsibility. I just think differently.

 

[clubdeac]

What liquor store do you go to that sells groceries?

On an interesting side note, black people drink alcoholic less on average than white people. The same is true for smoking cigarettes, consuming caffeine, and using marijuana.

Have you ever thought that there are actual physiologic and anatomical differences bw blacks and whites that may account for these health disparities? Like muscle mass? % of Fast Twitch vs slow Twitch muscle fibers is an obvious example. Certain Bp meds are better for blacks than whites and vice versa. The differences are endless and likely contribute significantly to these disparities, far more than systemic medical racism

 

[Ducttape]

you have the bandwidth and financial resources to do so.

Have you ever thought that there are actual physiologic and anatomical differences bw blacks and whites that may amount for these health disparities? Like muscle mass? % of Fast Twitch vs slow Twitch muscle fibers is an obvious example. Certain Bp meds are better for blacks than whites and vice versa. The differences are endless and likely contribute significantly to these disparities, far more than systemic medical racism

sigh...

 

[SSdoc33]

Regarding affirmative action——Finally !!!!!

To quote the chief justice of the Supreme Court.

“The best way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race”

I’m not a fan of trump, but I can accept all the craziness of his term as president, because it did give us a Supreme Court in a way that actually represents the majority of Americans (not the self described elites).

The majority of Americans know that affirmative action is a ridiculous concept in the 21st century and highest court in the land made that law today.

It’s time america became a meritocracy again, instead of just pandering to whomever whines the most.

i am very disappointed in myself that i am in agreement with justices alito and thomas. i just dont know who i am anymore.....

but, the supreme court doesnt represent the "majority of americans". there are plent of their recent decisions which directly counter that argument. but i digress.

 

[emergentmd]

you have the bandwidth and financial resources to do so.

I agree that some are in better positions. But like everything in life, some have it much harder than others but many times hard work is the equalizer.

If many 1st Gen Asian Americans had the same mentality as other URMs, they would be grouped as one of the URMs.

American Indians had their land and life taken away from them. No doubt. But that was 200 years ago. Eventually you have to stop using an excuses and fix the problem. The past has happened.

Look at the Middle east.

Israel was in just as bad of shape as most of their surrounding neighboring countries. They took the path of innovation, fiscal responsibility now being a leader in tech/biotech/defense. Others around them just continue to be corrupt with constant tribal fighting.

I know its hard sometimes to take personal responsibility. Our country has a good way of taking this away.

I mean, everyone in my elementary kids race gets a ribbon. NO, there was only one winner and everyone was ranked but you would have no idea where each kid placed. Now even High schools have stopped ranking students. The top few will get it and then they get grouped in percentile for college applications. But you could not tell who #3 vs #50 but there is a distinct difference between those students.

 

[emergentmd]

i am very disappointed in myself that i am in agreement with justices alito and thomas. i just dont know who i am anymore.....

but, the supreme court doesnt represent the "majority of americans". there are plent of their recent decisions which directly counter that argument. but i digress.

Like everything in life, some will like and others will hate SCOTUS opinions. This is their job, to decide difficult/controversial cases. The easy ones never reach their level.

I have disliked many of the current and past Scotus opinions but I respect it. If I, you, or anyone else was Justice there would be the same amount of people hating our opinions.

They settled it, move on people.

 

[bedrock]

i am very disappointed in myself that i am in agreement with justices alito and thomas. i just dont know who i am anymore.....

Hopefully it means you are a reasonable, sensible, center left democrat, and not a far left socialist fanatic.

Reasonable center left democrats, reasonable center right republicans, and Independents (Independents are 50% of the country BTW in the latest polls) can have civil disagreements, and find reasonable compromises for the common good of this country.

Far left socialist democrats and far right nutty republicans, belong in the loonie bin, as both groups have no grasp of actual reality.

 

[bedrock]

I agree that some are in better positions. But like everything in life, some have it much harder than others but many times hard work is the equalizer.

If many 1st Gen Asian Americans had the same mentality as other URMs, they would be grouped as one of the URMs.

American Indians had their land and life taken away from them. No doubt. But that was 200 years ago. Eventually you have to stop using an excuses and fix the problem. The past has happened.

Look at the Middle east.

Israel was in just as bad of shape as most of their surrounding neighboring countries. They took the path of innovation, fiscal responsibility now being a leader in tech/biotech/defense. Others around them just continue to be corrupt with constant tribal fighting.

I know its hard sometimes to take personal responsibility. Our country has a good way of taking this away.

I mean, everyone in my elementary kids race gets a ribbon. NO, there was only one winner and everyone was ranked but you would have no idea where each kid placed. Now even High schools have stopped ranking students. The top few will get it and then they get grouped in percentile for college applications. But you could not tell who #3 vs #50 but there is a distinct difference between those students.

Agree. In America there is tremendous opportunity for anyone willing to work for it.

All the whiners need to shut the hell up, and look in the mirror.
The strengths and weakness of that individual in the mirror is the reason for their success or failure, not things that happened hundreds of years ago.

 

[Ferrismonk]

Have you ever thought that there are actual physiologic and anatomical differences bw blacks and whites that may amount for these health disparities? Like muscle mass? % of Fast Twitch vs slow Twitch muscle fibers is an obvious example. Certain Bp meds are better for blacks than whites and vice versa. The differences are endless and likely contribute significantly to these disparities, far more than systemic medical racism

I once read something that mentioned how when African slaves were brought to America they endured horrific conditions. Piled up like logs in their own filth and only given small meals and little water for the transatlantic voyage. Many died. Those who survived were the once that could hold onto salt and water the longest. This indirectly made African-Americans predisposed to high blood pressure and kidney failure. Combine that with good ol' southern cooking and it's a recipe for major health problems. This also may explain some of the health differences between native Africans and African-Americans.

So yes, if this is true, a selective pressure altered African-American genetics and unfortunately made them more prone to a whole host of diseases.

 

[Ducttape]

I agree that some are in better positions. But like everything in life, some have it much harder than others but many times hard work is the equalizer.

If many 1st Gen Asian Americans had the same mentality as other URMs, they would be grouped as one of the URMs.

American Indians had their land and life taken away from them. No doubt. But that was 200 years ago. Eventually you have to stop using an excuses and fix the problem. The past has happened.

Look at the Middle east.

Israel was in just as bad of shape as most of their surrounding neighboring countries. They took the path of innovation, fiscal responsibility now being a leader in tech/biotech/defense. Others around them just continue to be corrupt with constant tribal fighting.

I know its hard sometimes to take personal responsibility. Our country has a good way of taking this away.

I mean, everyone in my elementary kids race gets a ribbon. NO, there was only one winner and everyone was ranked but you would have no idea where each kid placed. Now even High schools have stopped ranking students. The top few will get it and then they get grouped in percentile for college applications. But you could not tell who #3 vs #50 but there is a distinct difference between those students.

now there is a huge misnomer about asian americans.

the common thought is "they are hard working", "they are smart", along with the racial slurs.

however.... the group of asian americans is far more diverse than the public impression. an equal amount of asian americans grow up in poverty and do not get out of the ghetto in which they live in.

Diversity of Asian Americans shatters the "model minority myth"

Their experiences in America are starkly different depending on their origins.

www.axios.com

in addition, when most people think of asian americans, they think of the doctor or engineer whos parents came over from India, Japan or China. that is kind of racially profiling, as those make up a small (but brilliant, if i may say so) group of asian americans.

you bring up American Indians. without equal access to education, to financial vectors that improve generational wealth, you get the current situation with american indians. the same goes true with black americans.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1475-6773.13224

===
im not sure comparing a new found country that the financial and social backing to becoming a 1st world country to 3rd world countries is a great example.

for example...

the US has given roughly $349 billion to the middle east since WWII. of that amount, $150 billion went to 1 country alone - israel.

on average, the US gives $3.3 billion to israel per year. the next highest amount is Egypt at $1.3 billion, and then Jordan, at most at $1.3 billion.

other nations have also provided financial aid to israel, including Germany.

as with everything in this capitalistic world, things are a lot easier when one has $$$

 

[buddababa]

I agree that some are in better positions. But like everything in life, some have it much harder than others but many times hard work is the equalizer.

If many 1st Gen Asian Americans had the same mentality as other URMs, they would be grouped as one of the URMs.

American Indians had their land and life taken away from them. No doubt. But that was 200 years ago. Eventually you have to stop using an excuses and fix the problem. The past has happened.

Look at the Middle east.

Israel was in just as bad of shape as most of their surrounding neighboring countries. They took the path of innovation, fiscal responsibility now being a leader in tech/biotech/defense. Others around them just continue to be corrupt with constant tribal fighting.

I know its hard sometimes to take personal responsibility. Our country has a good way of taking this away.

I mean, everyone in my elementary kids race gets a ribbon. NO, there was only one winner and everyone was ranked but you would have no idea where each kid placed. Now even High schools have stopped ranking students. The top few will get it and then they get grouped in percentile for college applications. But you could not tell who #3 vs #50 but there is a distinct difference between those students.

well israel got ahead thanks to our tax dollars and stealing resources of occupied land

 

[MitchLevi]

Peaceful and serene.

Yall need this bc some of yall are politically-obsessed IMO.

 

[SSdoc33]

well israel got ahead thanks to our tax dollars and stealing resources of occupied land

yeah. we have given zero resources, $$$, and chances to the palestinians. and if you have been to israel, you would know that the land was essentially a desert of dust before irrigation and development.

it is precisely because of the system of government, lack of corruption, and jewish diversity that israel has thrived. when i first went in the early 80's israel was a third world country. had to throw the toilet paper into a bin next to the toilet. now it is first world, and the standard of living is quite high.

isreal is not perfect, and i do not like the expansion and settlements...... but don't start with that sh$t

 

[SSdoc33]

I once read something that mentioned how when African slaves were brought to America they endured horrific conditions. Piled up like logs in their own filth and only given small meals and little water for the transatlantic voyage. Many died. Those who survived were the once that could hold onto salt and water the longest. This indirectly made African-Americans predisposed to high blood pressure and kidney failure. Combine that with good ol' southern cooking and it's a recipe for major health problems. This also may explain some of the health differences between native Africans and African-Americans.

So yes, if this is true, a selective pressure altered African-American genetics and unfortunately made them more prone to a whole host of diseases.

sounds like a bunch of BS TBH

 

[buddababa]

yeah. we have given zero resources, $$$, and chances to the palestinians. and if you have been to israel, you would know that the land was essentially a desert of dust before irrigation and development.

it is precisely because of the system of government, lack of corruption, and jewish diversity that israel has thrived. when i first went in the early 80's israel was a third world country. had to throw the toilet paper into a bin next to the toilet. now it is first world, and the standard of living is quite high.

isreal is not perfect, and i do not like the expansion and settlements...... but don't start with that sh$t

im not starting with anything, just stating facts

 

[SSdoc33]

im not starting with anything, just stating facts

then your facts are wrong

 

[buddababa]

then your facts are wrong

ill end this conversation here as clearly you and i will never agree.
But hopefully we can have a civil conversation if we ever meet in person

 

[SSdoc33]

ill end this conversation here as clearly you and i will never agree.
But hopefully we can have a civil conversation if we ever meet in person

fair enough.

you clearly have taken the high-road, and i commend you for it.

i still believe there is a middle ground and im really not a super pro-israel.

 

[emergentmd]

Typically political debates ends up going back and forth with reasons why certain groups are in their current position. Truthfully, I can care less what was given or how some group got a perceived advantage over others. Every group is given more/less compared to another which is just how life works. It is what you do when given that opportunity matters.

But the left seems to always make excuses but they start to sound hollow when nothing changes.

African Americans have been given much more than Asains and I don't think this is debatable. Do we just forget how Asian Americans were jailed with rampant discrimination during WWII? That was atleast in our lifetime. Yet African Americans still cling to slavery that was abolished 10+ generations ago.

What people fail to learn is when you give a group more hand outs and excuses, they become addicted to it. Hispanics/African Americans would be much better off if we cut welfare down to the bare bones and stop giving excuses like food desert, food insecurity, DEI, housing insecurity, wealth disparity, income disparity.

 

[Baron Samedi]

African Americans have been given much more than Asains and I don't think this is debatable. Do we just forget how Asian Americans were jailed with rampant discrimination during WWII? That was atleast in our lifetime. Yet African Americans still cling to slavery that was abolished 10+ generations ago.

Civil rights movement - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

You might be surprised to learn that some other things happened in recent history as well!

 

[cowboydoc]

You might be surprised to learn that some other things happened in recent history as well!