I exaggerated my EC's on AMCAS and I got called on it.

[Oh_Gee]

You do but you can list your maternal grandmother and no one may be the wiser unless someone reviewing the application thinks it looks sketchy or decides to reach out for verification of the activity and Granny blows your cover.

i'd love to hear that phone call

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[narvik2016]

Honestly, the funniest (saddest) thing about all of this is that there is a good chance you would have gotten away with it if you had just provided contact information (unless it was mentioned in an LOR). I am surprised only one school has said anything... any empty contact info box seems like a huge red flag to me for any type of application.

 

[Poit]

Serves you right OP. Med school spot should go to someone else.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Geez if "everyone" is hiking up their ECs like OP is saying I am screwed apparently. Can't compete with 5000 shadowing, 5000 service, 5000 surgeries performed... Come on OP.. When people try to justify stuff like this I am always like

 

[ivorypearls]

What I'm more surprised about is how surprised you are that you've been caught. 250 counter hrs is a huge difference from 100 service hours racked up in 6 months. To put things in perspective, I was also a student volunteer at the ER working either 4hr/week, 8hr/week, sometimes 12hr/week shifts depending on how busy I was that week. Only over the course of one and a half years did I rack up 250 hrs. 100 --> 250 hrs is not just adding hours here and there. It is a serious over exaggeration and I'm surprised no other schools you applied to called bull****. Sorry for being frank, but like others above have already mentioned your best shot of getting into medical school would be to withdraw all apps and try again next cycle. It might raise a few eyebrows but right now this is your best option

 

[nolookpass]

I still don't understand/believe this or the OP isn't giving the full story.

I really don't think the website lets you submit your application without filling all the required fields. One of the required fields is putting a contact name and number down. It's like when you sign up for a site or a new email account and you forget to put your birth date and the site requires it. It won't let you go through until you put it down.

If somehow the app was submitted without the contact info, that's probably why the OP got called out on it.

 

[candbgirl]

He did put the name of the place and maybe the main number. Maybe that was enough to allow him to continue. The thing I find so interesting is at how incensed he is and that he still doesn't think he was falsifying information.

 

[tea guzzling traveler]

And this is exactly why I either had an exact count or even underestimated... I did not want to be in this situation. I think/ hope that the majority of premeds don't drastically inflate hours like that. 2.5x is actually pretty serious. Could I see 10 hours as a misestimation, yes. 150 hours is more willful however.

 

[malamia]

I over estimated 3 volunteer hours in one of my EC's this cycle. As soon as I realized it I went back and did 4.

 

[bee17]

OP, on the current version of AMCAS, you are supposed to combine past and projected future hours. If you still hold this position, could you keep it throughout this year and make up the difference? Or did you write in the activity description that you had already completed 250 hours? If you did not specify, then the school might just be checking because of the vague contact info rather than the hours, and you could be fine. If you straight up lied, then you might be screwed.

 

[Affiche]

Something had to be on your AMCAS that raised eyebrows that you aren't telling us.
I had a few EC's that I worked on during the school year and over the summer. I worked way more hours for these ECs over the summer than during the school year, so my total hours looks a little iffy if you don't take summer holidays into account. Not a single school has asked me to verify anything on my activities (though I've been prepared to) nor has it come up at interviews. My contact info hasn't been the most top-notch thing either, since I'm nontrad and basically used whomever I could get a hold of.

 

[makennacompton]

If we have reason to believe that an applicant has falsified information we are obligated to report it to AMCAS.
Naomi Mackie's office decides if the discrepancy requires an investigation. The applicant will be notified and given the opportunity to respond.

What "reason" will you present? You just can't speculate that the reason a candidate withdrew his/her application was because you asked for documentation of hours and then, subsequently, a withdrawal occurred. If I'm AMCAS, I don't accept your "evidence" unless you yourself have gone deeper behind that application and, independent of the applicant, made inquiries with the entity associated with the EC in question and gotten documented responses back from that entity that differs MATERIALLY from what is on the application. Even in this circumstance, AMCAS probably has a formal procedure for you to present your evidence and give the applicant the opportunity to respond in some formal manner. Although this would be the rational way in which to approach this situation, I wonder how many adcoms -- with all of their other duties and pressures -- will initiate this kind of inquiry and take the time necessary to pursue this to the end. I admire you if you and your institution would do so, but question whether others would.

 

[Promethean]

For people concerned about how the application could have gone through without contact data....

As I recall, it doesn't check to determine that the data entered in that field meets certain parameters, just that information is entered. So if OP had put in a space or an N/A, that might have allowed the application to go through. At least, that seemed to be the way of it when I filled out that app last year, since I was able to submit without a phone number for one of my contacts.

 

[lalex]

Is it really that bad to estimate somewhat? If I did 244, can I not put 250?

I over estimated 3 volunteer hours in one of my EC's this cycle. As soon as I realized it I went back and did 4.

 

[Affiche]

For people concerned about how the application could have gone through without contact data....

As I recall, it doesn't check to determine that the data entered in that field meets certain parameters, just that information is entered. So if OP had put in a space or an N/A, that might have allowed the application to go through. At least, that seemed to be the way of it when I filled out that app last year, since I was able to submit without a phone number for one of my contacts.

LOL you're fine, dude. All of my hours were rounded and about 1/2 of them were guestimated.

 

[cantankerous]

Is it really that bad to estimate somewhat? If I did 244, can I not put 250?

idk if you use a more specific number, it looks more legit

 

[Planes2Doc]

To the OP, I think what everyone above said is true in regards to salvaging your application. You need to withdraw, and withdraw soon!

As for "fudging" hours, just a little bit of it is accepted. For example, if you have 292 legitimate hours and round up to 300 on your application (two shifts worth), then you'll probably be fine. At a certain point though, it will be considered dishonesty. Either adding an extra "0" to your hours or inflating them by more than double will be considered dishonest.

Unlike a lot of people, I'm pretty sympathetic to these applicants. I don't necessarily think that someone who is fudging their volunteering is going to be the equivalent of someone who will claim to have done a physical exam, but never did it. Volunteering in particular, has become completely destroyed by pre-meds. Like I've said in other threads, it was something that was special and should have been done because of someone's free will, but now has become a dog and pony show where people are simply trying to rack up as many hours as possible. And on top of that, a lot of hospitals treat pre-meds like absolute crap! Now I'm not justifying people exaggerating such hours, but I'm just saying when you have people in a pressure cooker environment, they will begin to "fudge" certain things to make themselves look better.

Over the years, I've seen people game the ECs in other ways where they still end up looking legitimate. The most common which a lot of pre-meds probably do is doing a half-ass job (or worse) at the sites. Since there is no oversight and the school will not hear about the pre-med's actual performance, the pre-med can just slack off and play on their phone or study for every shift, and then tell ADCOMs they were a vital part of the team. I can also see pre-meds who would have liked to work become passive-aggressive after being treated like crap, and then just do a poor job purposely (it's a vicious cycle). Like I've said many times, volunteering is like Vegas minus 99% of the fun. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, and same with volunteering. Then I've heard of people using even less Kosher methods which will still keep them LEGITIMATELY verified. This includes the classic signing in at the beginning of the shift, leaving the site for the next four hours, and then coming back to sign in. There are people who also had their friends sign them in and out. Until more oversight is provided, the pre-meds we deem to be completely HONEST are actually gaming the system. I know plenty of fellow classmates who did not enjoy their ECs, and while they fudged and embellished stuff, they haven't done bad things on clinicals, like lying about exam findings and what not.

Yes, the OP is at fault for what they did. But there's a reason why pre-meds are being driven to embellish and fudge stuff. It's not 100% their fault.

 

[ChrisMack390]

OP is a liar and more than doubled his volunteering hours (which btw was completely stupid because 100 hours would have still been pretty good...).

For other SDNers though - this is exactly why you should reach out to your EC contacts and let them know what you are going to write on the application and make sure they would back it up if needed.

 

[Affiche]

I am also sympathetic because I had to guestimate so many of my EC hours, but I disagree that it's not 100% his fault. 100 hrs vs 250 hrs is an intentional fabrication.

 

[Planes2Doc]

I am also sympathetic because I had to guestimate so many of my EC hours, but I disagree that it's not 100% his fault. 100 hrs vs 250 hrs is an intentional fabrication.

Ahh... Well I meant to say that yes it is his fault, but we really need to figure out why exactly applicants are being pushed to do these things. This isn't an isolated incident. This is especially considering that volunteering is supposedly an activity that people do because they want to, and are supposed to enjoy. The volunteer coordinator always told me to "have fun" before I started each shift.

 

[Affiche]

Ahh... Well I meant to say that yes it is his fault, but we really need to figure out why exactly applicants are being pushed to do these things. This isn't an isolated incident. This is especially considering that volunteering is supposedly an activity that people do because they want to, and are supposed to enjoy. The volunteer coordinator always told me to "have fun" before I started each shift.

This isn't exactly analogous to "society creates criminals". Applying to medical school is a choice and a privilege. Punishing someone for lying about their accomplishments on an application they choose to complete is not the same as punishing a starving homeless man for stealing some bread. Admission to medical school is competitive. People need to learn the value of being honest even in a competitive environment. It doesn't make sense to make it less competitive so that people won't be inclined to fabricate their activities lol.

 

[Planes2Doc]

This isn't exactly analogous to "society creates criminals". Applying to medical school is a choice and a privilege. Punishing someone for lying about their accomplishments on an application they choose to complete is not the same as punishing a starving homeless man for stealing some bread. Admission to medical school is competitive. People need to learn the value of being honest even in a competitive environment. It doesn't make sense to make it less competitive so that people won't be inclined to fabricate their activities lol.

That's a good point. Very true. Just out of curiosity though... What would you do if you were an ADCOM and found out that a stellar applicant (high GPA and MCAT) with 100% verified volunteer hours spent a majority of their shift either messing around on their phone or studying for school?

 

[Affiche]

That's a good point. Very true. Just out of curiosity though... What would you do if you were an ADCOM and found out that a stellar applicant (high GPA and MCAT) with 100% verified volunteer hours spent a majority of their shift either messing around on their phone or studying for school?

I already assume that's what they do

 

[NonTrad16]

Ahh... Well I meant to say that yes it is his fault, but we really need to figure out why exactly applicants are being pushed to do these things. This isn't an isolated incident. This is especially considering that volunteering is supposedly an activity that people do because they want to, and are supposed to enjoy. The volunteer coordinator always told me to "have fun" before I started each shift.

Half of the pre-meds I witnessed at my hospital gig were there purely to get hours. I don't think this is a fault of the 'system', it's the fault of students going in with that expectation. If they walk in and neglect to speak to the years-long volunteers/staff, sit on their phones, do homework, etc rather than find value in the experience, that's their own fault. If the place is crappy -- leave. If you don't like it -- leave. Go find something you do like. The adcoms on here have mentioned there are lots of ways to get service (clinical and nonclinical), but I'm convinced half of the pre-meds I met at my site were there because it was easy, they could get hours, and they could do their homework.

I agree that med schools are asking a lot of applicants -- a crazy amount, really, and the increasingly common gap-year is an iffy trend if it's to keep performing the pre-med checklist -- but half-assing an effort or lying isn't the solution to a hard situation.

I'm definitely glad the adcoms caught the OP. While I don't think it's one step away from lying about a chest exam as a resident, I do wonder where the line is drawn in the OPs mind between an excusable exaggeration and a lie. If a simple and unnecessary lie is interpreted as "added just a few hours here and there", how would an adcom evaluate what the OP did in their other experiences? 90% of the application is self-reported with minimal verification.

 

[Goro]

"If we have reason to believe that an applicant has falsified information "

What part of the bold don't you understand? This isn't about withdrawing, it's about lying.

Concerning the bold/red, that sure sounds like wishful thinking.

What "reason" will you present? You just can't speculate that the reason a candidate withdrew his/her application was because you asked for documentation of hours and then, subsequently, a withdrawal occurred. If I'm AMCAS, I don't accept your "evidence" unless you yourself have gone deeper behind that application and, independent of the applicant, made inquiries with the entity associated with the EC in question and gotten documented responses back from that entity that differs MATERIALLY from what is on the application. Even in this circumstance, AMCAS probably has a formal procedure for you to present your evidence and give the applicant the opportunity to respond in some formal manner. Although this would be the rational way in which to approach this situation, I wonder how many adcoms -- with all of their other duties and pressures -- will initiate this kind of inquiry and take the time necessary to pursue this to the end. I admire you if you and your institution would do so, but question whether others would.

 

[Banco]

So you exaggerated hours and didn't even provide a contact? Obviously that looks shady.

If it was like a hobby and you didn't provide a contact, then it wouldn't really matter, but this is a major clinical experience.

People definitely do guesstimate to their own favor but doubling hours is pretty dishonest.

 

[gyngyn]

What "reason" will you present? You just can't speculate that the reason a candidate withdrew his/her application was because you asked for documentation of hours and then, subsequently, a withdrawal occurred. If I'm AMCAS, I don't accept your "evidence" unless you yourself have gone deeper behind that application and, independent of the applicant, made inquiries with the entity associated with the EC in question and gotten documented responses back from that entity that differs MATERIALLY from what is on the application. Even in this circumstance, AMCAS probably has a formal procedure for you to present your evidence and give the applicant the opportunity to respond in some formal manner. Although this would be the rational way in which to approach this situation, I wonder how many adcoms -- with all of their other duties and pressures -- will initiate this kind of inquiry and take the time necessary to pursue this to the end. I admire you if you and your institution would do so, but question whether others would.

For example we recently had an applicant whose LOE described (at length) her struggles in a degree program that did not appear on her academic record as submitted to AMCAS. This was sufficient to merit a call. This is not a court of law. Our obligation to report is triggered by a reasonable suspicion. It is up to AMCAS to investigate.

 

[WingedOx]

LMAO. I like how your name is "Metta World Peace" yet your avatar pic is Malice in the Palace.

Off topic, despite being a big fan of the '04 Pistons, I can never hate on Artest. He's probably the only professional athlete to ever publicly thank his psychiatrist during a victory celebration.

/Can't have Dr. James Andrews getting all the credit.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Off topic, despite being a big fan of the '04 Pistons, I can never hate on Artest. He's probably the only professional athlete to ever publicly thank his psychiatrist during a victory celebration.

/Can't have Dr. James Andrews getting all the credit.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=5902468

This will always be one of my favorite articles of all time.

Off topic as well but there's a legitimate shot the Pacers are in the NBA finals that year and perhaps take out the Spurs if that whole episode in Detroit never happens.

 

[deleted393595]

You'd have to be doing 10 hours a week to get 250 hours in 6 months.

In other words, do we want doctors like the OP who cannot do simple math?

 

[WingedOx]

Honestly, the funniest (saddest) thing about all of this is that there is a good chance you would have gotten away with it if you had just provided contact information (unless it was mentioned in an LOR). I am surprised only one school has said anything... any empty contact info box seems like a huge red flag to me for any type of application.

On topic: yeah, my assumption is that they're only asking because OP left the space blank. Might not be anything more than that.

 

[jl lin]

Seriously!?!? It's not like I lied or falsified anything...just added some hours here and there. Now, one school I applied to is asking for written documentation regarding a particular EC I listed. How did they find out? or is this standard? I didn't even provide contact info; just the name of the place. Obviously I can't provide the documentation so I'm planning on withdrawing my application? This won't affect the other schools I applied to right? Anyone in a similar situation?

Oh for God's sake. Have you never interviewed for a job before.? It's a similar scenario. Any decent job will check references, dates, hours, etc.

 

[TheZaLord]

I'm wondering about my situation.

I'm tutoring after school for kids in our district that are struggling. It started on a strictly volunteer basis and was something/is something I really enjoy.

Our school board just voted to allow paid tutoring, for 20hrs- unclear if this is per semester or per year.
Anyways, the program I'm doing it through was part of this approval, so we will get paid $25 hr.
So, that's an extra $50 a week and $200/month...which is huge for me.

My only concern is, my intention was to list this tutoring as part of my volunteer experience. It's not medical, but I legitimately did this because I care for my kids and want them to succeed.
Now that it's paid- at least some of it, I suppose I can't list it as volunteering?

If so, should I just not take the extra pay?

 

[Cotterpin]

Over the years, I've seen people game the ECs in other ways where they still end up looking legitimate. The most common which a lot of pre-meds probably do is doing a half-ass job (or worse) at the sites. Since there is no oversight and the school will not hear about the pre-med's actual performance, the pre-med can just slack off and play on their phone or study for every shift, and then tell ADCOMs they were a vital part of the team. I can also see pre-meds who would have liked to work become passive-aggressive after being treated like crap, and then just do a poor job purposely (it's a vicious cycle). Like I've said many times, volunteering is like Vegas minus 99% of the fun. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, and same with volunteering. Then I've heard of people using even less Kosher methods which will still keep them LEGITIMATELY verified. This includes the classic signing in at the beginning of the shift, leaving the site for the next four hours, and then coming back to sign in. There are people who also had their friends sign them in and out. Until more oversight is provided, the pre-meds we deem to be completely HONEST are actually gaming the system. I know plenty of fellow classmates who did not enjoy their ECs, and while they fudged and embellished stuff, they haven't done bad things on clinicals, like lying about exam findings and what not.

I had a leadership role in a ED volunteering program and oh my god, I saw so much of this kind of thing. We had it set up so there was an online time clock, which got abused like crazy. We caught someone who was clocking in and out on their cell phone without even coming within 20 blocks of the hospital. Also, people just straight up didn't care and would sit in the office screwing around on the computer. I would come in to do paperwork and catch them and there would always be some sort of excuse. Ridiculous. I found that the best way to do it was to set a good example and show the incoming volunteers what was expected of them. If they saw how seriously I took things, they took it more seriously. Things got a lot better. But I still think it's absolutely ridiculous and depressing that these adults who want to become physicians and be trusted with people's lives have so little integrity and they have to be babysat like children.

 

[jl lin]

If we have reason to believe that an applicant has falsified information we are obligated to report it to AMCAS.
Naomi Mackie's office decides if the discrepancy requires an investigation. The applicant will be notified and given the opportunity to respond.

That sounds quite fair to me. I could see where a person that feels their ECs are honest and beyond reproach, at least at first may feel a bit offended; but in actuality, it makes me glad that people are being thorough. So, even if it was some misunderstanding, unlike what the OP has described, one should be fully prepared to be vetted and have a solid response. Sort of like vetting all the candidates for the presidential election. LOL

 

[Affiche]

I'm wondering about my situation.

I'm tutoring after school for kids in our district that are struggling. It started on a strictly volunteer basis and was something/is something I really enjoy.

Our school board just voted to allow paid tutoring, for 20hrs- unclear if this is per semester or per year.
Anyways, the program I'm doing it through was part of this approval, so we will get paid $25 hr.
So, that's an extra $50 a week and $200/month...which is huge for me.

My only concern is, my intention was to list this tutoring as part of my volunteer experience. It's not medical, but I legitimately did this because I care for my kids and want them to succeed.
Now that it's paid- at least some of it, I suppose I can't list it as volunteering?

If so, should I just not take the extra pay?

Just update if you're asked about it, like in an interview. It's not a big deal.

that these adults who want to become physicians and be trusted with people's lives have so little integrity and they have to be babysat like children.

Most pre-meds have never had jobs before and as far as I'm concerned, are still children.

 

[Affiche]

For example we recently had an applicant whose LOE described (at length) her struggles in a degree program that did not appear on her academic record as submitted to AMCAS. This was sufficient to merit a call. This is not a court of law. Our obligation to report is triggered by a reasonable suspicion. It is up to AMCAS to investigate.

My dad used to tell me "if you're going to be sneaky, at least be a good sneak". Not the best parenting advice but Jesus Christ, did she think it would go unnoticed that she submitted a LoR from a program she's trying to pretend doesn't exist?

 

[Cotterpin]

Most pre-meds have never had jobs before and as far as I'm concerned, are still children.

I was working primarily with nontrad/postbacs who had lots of interesting life experiences and jobs in their past. Still couldn't follow simple instructions, though!

 

[jl lin]

I had a leadership role in a ED volunteering program and oh my god, I saw so much of this kind of thing. We had it set up so there was an online time clock, which got abused like crazy. We caught someone who was clocking in and out on their cell phone without even coming within 20 blocks of the hospital. Also, people just straight up didn't care and would sit in the office screwing around on the computer. I would come in to do paperwork and catch them and there would always be some sort of excuse. Ridiculous. I found that the best way to do it was to set a good example and show the incoming volunteers what was expected of them. If they saw how seriously I took things, they took it more seriously. Things got a lot better. But I still think it's absolutely ridiculous and depressing that these adults who want to become physicians and be trusted with people's lives have so little integrity and they have to be babysat like children.

Wow. So, I am thinking these volunteers never had a job or were responsible in other activities through school. I would think most volunteers would get bored to tears with such arrangements. Geez, even when I was a sophomore in HS and volunteered in the ER or as a candy striper, I actually worked. Of course, my mother was the nursing supervisor, and I wanted to be helpful. I was raised differently than the others, and I knew I would be sent home if I was just there to screw off and have something to write down as an EC activity. I know it sounds bizarre to some folks, but I actually enjoyed being useful or just comforting people and listening--or running errands efficiently and knowing people could count on me. The ED was the most fun, b/c the nurses and docs let me help them, and it was quite an eye-opening experience--very exciting and interesting.

But yes, there were girls that just wanted to prance around in their little uniforms and would never get their hands dirty or even talked to patients that were alone and scared.

This bogus working and volunteering is nothing new, and that is why you need someone in a position of authority to write a reference. If you go into an EC and show that you really care and are serious, more than likely, you will get a good reference. For me, back in that time for nursing school, I had to go through other people/supervisors, b/c someone could say conflict of interest. I did this, but they surely didn't know my mom. LOL. Different time. Different work ethic. Different level of expectation. Growing up meant, well, taking on responsibility and work and getting good and tired, and well, growing up.

I say, when you are working in a volunteer position or a paid position, be fully present or go home. You're just a waste of space, and you will not have benefitted from the experience, for you haven't put anything of value into it. It's bogus. Integrity means no BS.

 

[TheRhymenocerous]

I had a leadership role in a ED volunteering program and oh my god, I saw so much of this kind of thing. We had it set up so there was an online time clock, which got abused like crazy. We caught someone who was clocking in and out on their cell phone without even coming within 20 blocks of the hospital. Also, people just straight up didn't care and would sit in the office screwing around on the computer. I would come in to do paperwork and catch them and there would always be some sort of excuse. Ridiculous. I found that the best way to do it was to set a good example and show the incoming volunteers what was expected of them. If they saw how seriously I took things, they took it more seriously. Things got a lot better. But I still think it's absolutely ridiculous and depressing that these adults who want to become physicians and be trusted with people's lives have so little integrity and they have to be babysat like children.

It's actually quite a lot of work to get into the ED at the hospital where I volunteer, so it's truly confusing to me that people will go through all that just to sit around and play with their phone the whole time. You get out what you put in, so guess what, no one is going to ask you to do anything interesting when you make zero effort to be helpful.

 

[WingedOx]

I'm going to disagree with some of the comments made above regarding volunteering.

If the volunteering you're doing is going to be a dog and pony show, that's kind of on you. Very little of what the "purple coats" do at my hospital is particularly clinical. I'm sure it's helpful, but there are SOOO many other things you could be doing if you're a traditional applicant.

Every student fair every fall on a campus has HUNDREDS of clubs and organizations that have volunteer opportunities in just about every manner you can think of. You don't have to schlep away in a hospital without access to daylight to prove how altruistic you are. Pick an organization, something you enjoy doing, stick with it, and learn what you love about it, how you made a difference, and be able to speak about it during an interview or essay. The applicant who was working in an after school mentoring program for 1.5 hours every Friday afternoon and can eloquently convey how they made a difference and what they learned from the experience will just about every time beat the applicant with hundreds of hours describing general bitchwork.

This is preachy, but you'll never have as much free time in life as you will in college. Use it for something enjoyable for all parties involved.

 

[Cotterpin]

Wow. So, I am thinking these volunteers never had a job or responsible in other activities through school. I would think most volunteers would get bored to tears with such arrangements. Geez, even when I was a sophomore in HS and volunteered to the ER or as a candy striper, I actually worked. Of course, my mother was the nursing supervisor, and I wanted to be helpful. I was raised differently than the others, and I knew I would be sent home if I was just there to screw off and have something to write down as an EC activity. The ED was the most fun, b/c the nurses and docs let me help them, and it was quite an eyeopening experience--very exciting and interesting. But yes, there were girls that just wanted to prance around in their little uniforms and would never get their hands dirty or even talked to patients that were alone and scared. This is nothing new, and that is why you need someone in a position of authority to write a reference. If you go into an EC and show that you really care and are serious, more than likely, you will get a good reference. I say, when you are working in a volunteer position or a paid position, be fully present or go home.

Nope. Not at all. Some of these people had been in the military before, finance, law, nurses... I don't think it has anything to do with age or previous experience. There are tons of people out there who will only do the bare minimum they need to get by. If they think they can get away with bs, they will try. It's messed up, but will always be there no matter how experiences or grown up people are supposed to be.

 

[wasteofspace323]

I can't think of a witty way to describe how severely self righteous this thread has gotten over being a competent candy striper.

 

[Affiche]

I can't think of a witty way to describe how severely self righteous this thread has gotten over being a competent candy striper.

I know I'll get bashed for this but I've said it before and I'll say it again: pre-med volunteering at the hospital is a joke. I have no idea how or why it was ever perceived as anything more than a box to check.

Edit: this post should not be misinterpreted as condoning the act of exaggerating hours. If you're going to do a joke of a volunteer activity, at least be honest about it lol.

 

[Ismet]

On topic: yeah, my assumption is that they're only asking because OP left the space blank. Might not be anything more than that.

He didn't leave it blank. You can't leave that space blank and submit the app, and OP said he put some contact info but not of the volunteer director (who would be the one to verify hours).

 

[DokterMom]

What "reason" will you present? You just can't speculate that the reason a candidate withdrew his/her application was because you asked for documentation of hours and then, subsequently, a withdrawal occurred. If I'm AMCAS, I don't accept your "evidence" unless you yourself have gone deeper behind that application and, independent of the applicant, made inquiries with the entity associated with the EC in question and gotten documented responses back from that entity that differs MATERIALLY from what is on the application. Even in this circumstance, AMCAS probably has a formal procedure for you to present your evidence and give the applicant the opportunity to respond in some formal manner. Although this would be the rational way in which to approach this situation, I wonder how many adcoms -- with all of their other duties and pressures -- will initiate this kind of inquiry and take the time necessary to pursue this to the end. I admire you if you and your institution would do so, but question whether others would.

They are required to report 'suspicion' and an applicant's sudden withdrawal after being asked to provide verifiable contact information for an implausible activity could certainly trigger a reasonable suspicion in anyone who noted that the two events occurred in a reasonably close time frame.

If I were suspicious, I would make the time to report and let AMCAS do the appropriate investigations. AdComs have a duty to screen out dishonest applicants and it's one that should be taken seriously. The OP's conduct exceeds 'exaggeration' and is well into the 'just plain lied about it' territory.

 

[cryhavoc]

I put down the exact number of hours I volunteered. I kept a spreadsheet and logged the exact number of hours.

I got two letters proving my hours, but several of the places I volunteered at don't keep detailed records. One place threw out all the log-sheets and insisted I never volunteered there until I got in touch with the lady in charge who recognized me, said I had done the hours I said and that it was because they dumped their old files.

I really hope that I wouldn't just be auto-rejected and be given a chance to defend myself. I actually did the hours but I'm afraid the poor record keeping of some of the places I volunteered at won't reflect it...

 

[TheRhymenocerous]

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[Chir0nex]

Yes, the OP is at fault for what they did. But there's a reason why pre-meds are being driven to embellish and fudge stuff. It's not 100% their fault.

So because there is increased pressure and expectation the appropriate response is to lie and cheat your way through? I agree that the system is becoming increasingly ridiculous, but that does not serve as a justification for falsifying your application. Simply because others engage in unethical behavior does not provide justification, and I would argue that an honest applicant is demonstrating greater maturity.

Honestly the best answer to the increasing emphasis on hours is to do something meaningful with your time. If everyone is going to have generic hours as a hospital volunteer, what stands out more is having long term-engagement or some kind of project/proposal to show for your efforts. I would be far more impressed by someone with fewer hours but an actual tangible accomplishment, or someone who has been working at the same place for 2-3 years than someone who does a 6 month stint someplace just to brag about hours. You mentioned the situation of a stellar candidate who spent their volunteer hours playing on their phone. If they are reporting a huge number of hours, I would expect some reflection on what that time taught them, or how it benefited them. If the only place a huge chunk of time is mentioned is on the hours box I would be suspicious and definitely look to push them on it in the interview.

I hope the adcoms will start addressing this issue by really looking for meaningful experience rather than filler activities in applicants. Maybe more verification is needed to scare people into being honest, though that is an imperfect solution.

 

[Affiche]

It must vary a lot by hospital then. My hospital volunteering has been an absolutely amazing experience. We work closely with nurses and are responsible for things like running EKGs and can sit with the trauma recorders during traumas. And now that I know the doctors and nurses well I get asked to so all sorts of weird stuff, like helping an orthopedic surgeon make casts.

Perhaps, but that sounds more like shadowing than volunteering. In my mind, volunteering isn't necessarily for you to gain anything, but for you to give your time to help others. It's great that you're learning a lot and have some responsibility, but I personally (which doesn't mean much) value the volunteer activities that involve giving up time for no personal gain. Examples would be reading to seniors, changing bed sheets (and not for 10 minutes during a 4 hour shift), wheeling patients where they need to be, helping them in and out of beds/chairs, etc.