I promise not to debate you…

[chessknt]

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What an odd thing to say.

You know that when that idea was actually floated by Trump, the senior military leaders refused to consider it? Every general, admiral, and new recruit knows the military is completely subordinate to civilian rule and the law.

There wouldn't be a mutiny within the ranks because the military would refuse to intervene in a disputed election. Unless you mean a "mutiny" when the entirety of the military refuses to carry out unlawful orders from a delusional criminal CIC?

The president doesn't need the military to do this. If Trump hollowed out the secret service and cia leadership and installed a bunch of people loyal to his cult of personality and ordered one of these groups to 'arrest' the right's public enemy #1 all they would really need to do is to continue to recognize his authority as president despite the clearly illegal actions to validate it. He obviously wasn't competent enough to do this but future people cast in the same mold definitely could be.

Then amend the document. That's the remedy.


Then amend the document.

Or challenge its interpretation in court with data from historic and current events.


Huh. Seems like the remedy for those failures in the document were ...

... to amend it and go to court.

This isn't the first time in this thread someone's brought up slavery and civil rights as flaws in the Constitution, but somehow they and you haven't connected the dots that if there was a simple (simple, not easy) legal remedy for those things, that the same can be done for the flaw you perceive in the 2nd Amendment.

You know the constitution can't be amended in our current environment. We can't get cloture on the senate on anything remotely controversial which ground the government to so much of a halt that they had to remove the rule for judicial confirmations (that Mitch then of course applied to the only court that matters in one of the most brilliant political maneuvers of all time). The last time we passed an amendment (and no the 27th doesnt count) was 2+ generations ago. Way too much grandstanding and social media zingers to agree to an amendment today. So with that option closed and Congress broken for the foreseeable future that is why the SCOTUS has been so politicized and why the right was so hellbent on controlling it. Our government used to be much more functional before the internet and apparent massive brain drain at the highest levels of leadership. Back then amendments and compromise worked.

 

[Gern Blansten]

This is exactly my point here. Go one level deeper. *Why* are machine guns not a problem? Because NFA and FOPA made automatic weapons extremely regulated, extremely scarce, and extremely expensive .

I agree with you in that I don't like the classism of only rich people being able to afford automatic weapons, but it is a plain-as-day fact that the regulation associated with NFA/FOPA has ensured that automatic weapons are

1. Still available
2. Only possessed by law-abiding gun owners
3. Are essentially never used in crimes

The result of NFA/FOPA speaks for itself, but imo the way it should be modified is to remove the Hughes amendment, make weapons affordable, but keep the regulation, aka background checks and registries, in full force (with any onerous registration costs being picked up by the taxpayer, not the end user who gets penalized for being poor or middle class). And not only in full force for automatic weapons / destructive devices, but eventually extended to most other semi-automatic arms.

I know you fervently oppose the idea of registration or restriction on common small arms because of the notion that it deters [a handful of government thugs breaking into your house - style] tyranny, but I just don't buy it. It doesn't matter whether we're talking about the Branch Davidians or Breonna Taylor. If the state or federal government wants to violently intrude, they're getting in. And in the latter case even if you (or your boyfriend) resists tyranny with your gun, the best you can hope for, assuming you're not killed at the scene by what is going to be clearly superior firepower, is that the inevitable attempted murder charge leveled against you is dropped.

The fact is, in this age of militarized police the thugs are not going to be deterred by your ownership of a semiauto SBAR. Which is why I don't want to ban any of these weapons, but I also don't mind if there is an age limit, waiting period, extensive background checks, or a registry.

The registry part worries me a bit because we have seen what people do when lists are released to the public or nefarious people with political power, such as the IRS.

 

[Gern Blansten]

Dude relax. Gun lovers heavily populate in red states. I’ve lived in one my whole life. Know what doesn’t generally happen in those states? Exercise, especially cross country skiing, the other part of the biathlon outside of shooting targets. Which explains why the US has never won a medal!

^^missed the point

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Hmmm.....is that why Mehmet Oz just won the GOP nomination in PA? I assure you, if Matthew McConaughey ran for Governor he'd have a better chance than Beto. Ronald Reagan was a Hollywood star.

Voting statistics would show that if people are fleeing CA and NY for WY, TX, and UT then guess what? Those states get more blue, not more red. I do agree that opinions of movie stars should be disregarded, but unfortunately, they're not.

CO would be an example of going from Red to Blue from an influx of Blue State refugees. Maybe not totally Blue yet, but well on the way.

 

[Gern Blansten]

CO wou

CO would be an example of going from Red to Blue from an influx of Blue State refugees. Maybe not totally Blue yet, but well on the way.

Agree. Colorado is essentially a dem state.

 

[Southpaw]

^^missed the point

If this is the case then please fill me in.

 

[nimbus]

Agree. Colorado is essentially a dem state.

Yeah apparently that’s where thousands of Texans will go for their abortions.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

The president doesn't need the military to do this. If Trump hollowed out the secret service and cia leadership and installed a bunch of people loyal to his cult of personality and ordered one of these groups to 'arrest' the right's public enemy #1 all they would really need to do is to continue to recognize his authority as president despite the clearly illegal actions to validate it. He obviously wasn't competent enough to do this but future people cast in the same mold definitely could be.


You know the constitution can't be amended in our current environment. We can't get cloture on the senate on anything remotely controversial which ground the government to so much of a halt that they had to remove the rule for judicial confirmations (that Mitch then of course applied to the only court that matters in one of the most brilliant political maneuvers of all time). The last time we passed an amendment (and no the 27th doesnt count) was 2+ generations ago. Way too much grandstanding and social media zingers to agree to an amendment today. So with that option closed and Congress broken for the foreseeable future that is why the SCOTUS has been so politicized and why the right was so hellbent on controlling it. Our government used to be much more functional before the internet and apparent massive brain drain at the highest levels of leadership. Back then amendments and compromise worked.

You make some good points. The Constitution can be amended, as the past has shown. Moderate is a dirty word. Tribalism is Derigur. My way or you must be canceled or declared a socialist. To make govt work for the people requires compromise. I personally would be ok with 50% of something than 100% of nothing. Yet, as @pgg points out, where is my 50% of the compromise?. Corrupt politicians create, and use this tribalism, causing us to snarl at each other while they continue to enrich themselves. Dow is down 850 at 31,430 as I type this. This crew in DC is not offering any solutions other than " this will be a hard summer for gas and groceries" But gun control is the most pressing issue?

 

[chessknt]

You make some good points. The Constitution can be amended, as the past has shown. Moderate is a dirty word. Tribalism is Derigur. My way or you must be canceled or declared a socialist. To make govt work for the people requires compromise. I personally would be ok with 50% of something than 100% of nothing. Yet, as @pgg points out, where is my 50% of the compromise?. Corrupt politicians create, and use this tribalism, causing us to snarl at each other while they continue to enrich themselves. Dow is down 850 at 31,430 as I type this. This crew in DC is not offering any solutions other than " this will be a hard summer for gas and groceries" But gun control is the most pressing issue?

Again I ask--what law or laws do you think Congress should pass to 'fix' inflation? Or the stock market? The idea that the economy can just be legislated to success makes no sense.

 

[nimbus]

Again I ask--what law or laws do you think Congress should pass to 'fix' inflation? Or the stock market? The idea that the economy can just be legislated to success makes no sense.

Stop handouts
Eliminate taxes
Privatize everything
Let the market decide

Except healthcare😉

 

[vector2]

The registry part worries me a bit because we have seen what people do when lists are released to the public or nefarious people with political power, such as the IRS.

Nah, the IRS thing is a right wing talking point red herring when viewed in comparison to the numerous, numerous "registries" we have at both the state and federal government level which work as intended.

 

[Southpaw]

Stop handouts
Eliminate taxes
Privatize everything
Let the market decide

Except healthcare😉

Yeah basically.....also stop funding social security, medicare, and medicaid. End government. Privatize everything. Go private equity! Stop abortions! Yes on guns! More guns! Go to church!

 

[vector2]

You know the constitution can't be amended in our current environment. We can't get cloture on the senate on anything remotely controversial which ground the government to so much of a halt that they had to remove the rule for judicial confirmations (that Mitch then of course applied to the only court that matters in one of the most brilliant political maneuvers of all time). The last time we passed an amendment (and no the 27th doesnt count) was 2+ generations ago. Way too much grandstanding and social media zingers to agree to an amendment today. So with that option closed and Congress broken for the foreseeable future that is why the SCOTUS has been so politicized and why the right was so hellbent on controlling it. Our government used to be much more functional before the internet and apparent massive brain drain at the highest levels of leadership. Back then amendments and compromise worked.

I find the "well, if you don't like it then just amend the Constitution" line to be totally disingenuous. It's one of those throwaway quips that's trivially true but de facto impossible given our current state of worsening non-majority rule.

Just look at the fact that "some degree of abortion rights should be legal" easily polls at 70% and yet Roe is about to be overturned.

 

[Gern Blansten]

^^missed the point

Guns and obesity are separate issues. Obesity is an issue in the entire US. It SEEMS that you are just denigrating people that you disagree with. That was the point that I believe was being made.

 

[Gern Blansten]

Yeah apparently that’s where thousands of Texans will go for their abortions.

Since THC is legal in many states now, Colorado is in need of a NEW cottage industry.

 

[Gern Blansten]

Just look at the fact that "some degree of abortion rights should be legal" easily polls at 70% and yet Roe is about to be overturned.

If overturned, the decision would then be based on states rights, correct. If what you say is true, states will vote to keep it available. That was my understanding of it but I could be incorrect.

 

[Gern Blansten]

Nah, the IRS thing is a right wing talking point red herring when viewed in comparison to the numerous, numerous "registries" we have at both the state and federal government level which work as intended.

I disagree. If the IRS targets people they disagree with politically, that is criminal. In addition, many of these lists are released to others who dox gun owners or worse.
I wish I could believe that these list keepers had everyone’s best interest at heart, but they don’t to say it’s okay because other lists have worked out fine is not acceptable in my opinion. We can agree to disagree on this one.

 

[vector2]

I disagree. If the IRS targets people they disagree with politically, that is criminal. In addition, many of these lists are released to others who dox gun owners or worse.
I wish I could believe that these list keepers had everyone’s best interest at heart, but they don’t to say it’s okay because other lists have worked out fine is not acceptable in my opinion. We can agree to disagree on this one.

Yeah, I guess we'll have to. The IRS thing is a canard compared to the amount of personal information the US or state goverment has which is used as intended. One blown-out-of-proportion incident involving a small number of people doesn't invalidate the idea of properly used registries. People don't get bent out of shape about personal information being abused when they get drivers licenses or medical licenses, because those aren't politically charged.

 

[vector2]

If overturned, the decision would then be based on states rights, correct. If what you say is true, states will vote to keep it available. That was my understanding of it but I could be incorrect.

SCOTUS functions at a national, federal level. With SCOTUS being packed by presidents who can't even win the popular vote. The point being that very unpopular decisions or legislation can be handed down by people chosen by minority, which means that Constitutional amendments requiring supermajorites are impossible when even majority opinion doesn't translate nowadays.

 

[Gern Blansten]

SCOTUS functions at a national, federal level. With SCOTUS being packed by presidents who can't even win the popular vote. The point being that very unpopular decisions or legislation can be handed down by people chosen by minority, which means that Constitutional amenents requiring supermajorites are impossible when even majority opinion doesn't translate nowadays.

The popular vote doesn’t matter. The electoral college vote does and so far only Biden’s election is suspect in that regard.
😉

 

[Southpaw]

Guns and obesity are separate issues. Obesity is an issue in the entire US. It SEEMS that you are just denigrating people that you disagree with. That was the point that I believe was being made.

You either missed the exchange or you’re being purposefully obtuse. Me stating fact doesn’t necessitate insult. Obesity is a nationwide problem - and every year the list of ‘unhealthiest states’ is dominated by red states. That’s a fact. Me pointing that out isn’t an insult, anymore than you writing ‘morbid obesity’ as a medical problem in a patients chart is insulting them.

If you don’t like that, then just like @pgg says with the constitution, ‘go change it’. It’s super easy.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I find the "well, if you don't like it then just amend the Constitution" line to be totally disingenuous. It's one of those throwaway quips that's trivially true but de facto impossible given our current state of worsening non-majority rule.

Just look at the fact that "some degree of abortion rights should be legal" easily polls at 70% and yet Roe is about to be overturned.

You keep saying "non majority" like the Founders didn't understand the concept. Our nation was designed around Federalism with states rights. This means that bigger states with larger populations can't push around the smaller states. This was done on purpose to limit the power and scope of the Federal govt. on states ability to govern themselves. This "minority" you keep talking about reflects the majority of states that make up our union so your understanding of our "democracy" (which is a Republic) has some lapses.

The "majority" of people who live in NY, California and other Blue States will be allowed to have even greater access to abortion on demand. See? Our Republic functions as the Founders designed it.

 

[chessknt]

You keep saying "non majority" like the Founders didn't understand the concept. Our nation was designed around Federalism with states rights. This means that bigger states with larger populations can't push around the smaller states. This was done on purpose to limit the power and scope of the Federal govt. on states ability to govern themselves. This "minority" you keep talking about reflects the majority of states that make up our union so your understanding of our "democracy" (which is a Republic) has some lapses.

The "majority" of people who live in NY, California and other Blue States will be allowed to have even greater access to abortion on demand. See? Our Republic functions as the Founders designed it.

Uh huh. Was it also designed around a 2 party dictatorship where all of the states separate in to 2 parties that vote in lockstep even though the needs of Florida and Alaska are so completely different that it makes absolutely no sense for them to do so? Like why would a rural state with a weak economy and extremely high CoL vote down a bill where the feds want to give them money for infrastructure they can't afford to install themselves? For FL it makes sense but for AK?

 

[vector2]

The popular vote doesn’t matter. The electoral college vote does and so far only Biden’s election is suspect in that regard.
😉

You keep saying "non majority" like the Founders didn't understand the concept. Our nation was designed around Federalism with states rights. This means that bigger states with larger populations can't push around the smaller states. This was done on purpose to limit the power and scope of the Federal govt. on states ability to govern themselves. This "minority" you keep talking about reflects the majority of states that make up our union so your understanding of our "democracy" (which is a Republic) has some lapses.

I've been over the intracacies and weaknesses of the electoral college system a dozen times in prior posts. Gern may not have read those but I know you have blade, which makes your assessment that I have some lapses or don't understand the history of the EC just some dishonest nonsense on your part.

Fact remains, at the time of the founders there was 1 House representative for every 30,000 people. In 1910 it was 1 to 210,000. As of now, there is 1 House rep for every ~760,000 people. Historically, the candidate who won the WH pretty much always won the EC AND the popular vote. Out of the last 4 presidents, 50% have lost the popular vote.

The Congressional apportionment system (and thus the EC) is horribly broken, and the only reason you don't acknowledge that is because it politically benefits you.

How The House Got Stuck At 435 Seats

Apportionment, or the process of determining the number of seats each state has in the U.S. House of Representatives, happens like clockwork at this point. Ever…

www.google.com

 

[nimbus]

You keep saying "non majority" like the Founders didn't understand the concept. Our nation was designed around Federalism with states rights. This means that bigger states with larger populations can't push around the smaller states. This was done on purpose to limit the power and scope of the Federal govt. on states ability to govern themselves. This "minority" you keep talking about reflects the majority of states that make up our union so your understanding of our "democracy" (which is a Republic) has some lapses.

The "majority" of people who live in NY, California and other Blue States will be allowed to have even greater access to abortion on demand. See? Our Republic functions as the Founders designed it.

Most states (including Texas, Georgia, Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, Ohio, Oklahoma) are evenly divided with regard to abortion. Even within these heartland states, the people are not overwhelmingly anti-abortion.

Do state laws on abortion reflect public opinion?

Majorities in four of the seven states that enacted strict new abortion laws in 2019 say abortion should be illegal in all or most cases.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[doctalaughs]

I'm one of the more "extreme" pro-2A people here, and I'll just repost (again) a list of a few of the compromises I've said I'd find acceptable in this thread:
1) expanded background checks
2) a waiting period for first gun purchases
3) mandatory training, provided it was not prohibitively expensive or difficult to get
4) minimum age limit of 21 to purchase

And I'll add to that, after reading some recent posts
5) laws restricting marketing in some fashion

I consider myself pretty centrist politically and find your compromises above and arguments reasonable.

Why do you think 1-5 are a complete no-go for most republicans and have been impossible to pass into law? It’s not like those ideas haven’t been proposed by the other side.

I think other “bans” and restrictions on guns are unlikely to happen and also unlikely to make a difference.

My main problem is that we all know there are a TON of stupid people in this country that can’t bother with the most basic principles of responsibility…. And furthermore there are a TON of mentally unstable people in this country as well. I have no problem with responsible, well-trained, law-abiding citizens owning a vast arsenal of whatever type of guns they want. But why don’t we make it really hard? Like a year of training and firearm safety in a class where instructors vouch for your competency and responsibility? Wouldn’t that weed out some wackos?

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Again I ask--what law or laws do you think Congress should pass to 'fix' inflation? Or the stock market? The idea that the economy can just be legislated to success makes no sense.

Laws and policies influence rhe economy, there is no doubt. Some suggestions? The govt borrow less and spend less money. We know one of the causes of inflation is a loose money supply. You may be too young to remember the inflation cycle of the 1980s, but interest rates were over 14% to tighten it up. We have gone from being an energy exporter to an importer. Why? We should finish pipelines and promote more domestic exploration of energy. Policies and laws to encourage business in these areas would help. If we can get the price of diesel down, consumer prices should drop.Convert more coal and nuclear power plants to gas until we have a more stable bridge to green energy. We are being told of blackouts across the Midwest this summer. So the grid is stressed and we want everyone to buy an electric car? If we do spend govt tax dollars on infrastructure, we need to upgrade the grid soon. We'll have to wait and see how the Infrastructure dollars are spent.

 

[chessknt]

Laws and policies influence rhe economy, there is no doubt. Some suggestions? The govt borrow less and spend less money. We know one of the causes of inflation is a loose money supply. You may be too young to remember the inflation cycle of the 1980s, but interest rates were over 14% to tighten it up. We have gone from being an energy exporter to an importer. Why? We should finish pipelines and promote more domestic exploration of energy. Policies and laws to encourage business in these areas would help. If we can get the price of diesel down, consumer prices should drop.Convert more coal and nuclear power plants to gas until we have a more stable bridge to green energy. We are being told of blackouts across the Midwest this summer. So the grid is stressed and we want everyone to buy an electric car? If we do spend govt tax dollars on infrastructure, we need to upgrade the grid soon. We'll have to wait and see how the Infrastructure dollars are spent.

Let's say your dreams come true and a magical unicorn Congress passes all of these right wing ideas tomorrow. We cut all spending by 30% by defunding social security and Medicare driving the cms conversion unit down to $10/unit (I'm assuming increasing taxes or cutting military spending are of course not allowed). How long until inflation comes under control? Any side effects from this big spending cut or is it only going to help the economy? Will it come in time for midterms? The energy things you are talking about won't come to fruition for many years, how does that help right now? Policies to encourage growth in any sector are going to take many years. Biden is being blamed for inflation and a tanking economy right now and if our logic holds that it takes years to steer the economy in any direction then we should be looking at who was in charge years ago to pin blame. But we aren't doing that are we?

 

[Gern Blansten]

Let's say your dreams come true and a magical unicorn Congress passes all of these right wing ideas tomorrow. We cut all spending by 30% by defunding social security and Medicare driving the cms conversion unit down to $10/unit (I'm assuming increasing taxes or cutting military spending are of course not allowed). How long until inflation comes under control? Any side effects from this big spending cut or is it only going to help the economy? Will it come in time for midterms? The energy things you are talking about won't come to fruition for many years, how does that help right now? Policies to encourage growth in any sector are going to take many years. Biden is being blamed for inflation and a tanking economy right now and if our logic holds that it takes years to steer the economy in any direction then we should be looking at who was in charge years ago to pin blame. But we aren't doing that are we?

I believe the economy can take years to fix, but can be broken in about six months. It will take years to fix what Biden’s policies have brought upon us. Covid is a huge part of the issue, but the response to Covid has made it far worse. In addition, the energy unfriendly policies of this administration are evident.

 

[yappy]

Some people choose to live in an alternate universe:

As America watched Capitol attack testimony, Fox News gave an alternate reality — Guardian US

Tucker Carlson leads January 6 counter-programming, petulantly refusing to show the hearing: ‘We’re not playing along’

apple.news

How many 5.56 rounds were shot by rioters insurrectionists during the siege? @chessknt says that they used their second amendment to protect against "tyranny"? I guess that version of events doesn't map on well to what actually happened. He cannot even straw man the right accurately lol. He's not well.

 

[yappy]

I find the "well, if you don't like it then just amend the Constitution" line to be totally disingenuous. It's one of those throwaway quips that's trivially true but de facto impossible given our current state of worsening non-majority rule.

Just look at the fact that "some degree of abortion rights should be legal" easily polls at 70% and yet Roe is about to be overturned.

It's almost like the ability to defend yourself should transcend law, and not be decided by others.

 

[nimbus]

I consider myself pretty centrist politically and find your compromises above and arguments reasonable.

Why do you think 1-5 are a complete no-go for most republicans and have been impossible to pass into law? It’s not like those ideas haven’t been proposed by the other side.

I think other “bans” and restrictions on guns are unlikely to happen and also unlikely to make a difference.

My main problem is that we all know there are a TON of stupid people in this country that can’t bother with the most basic principles of responsibility…. And furthermore there are a TON of mentally unstable people in this country as well. I have no problem with responsible, well-trained, law-abiding citizens owning a vast arsenal of whatever type of guns they want. But why don’t we make it really hard? Like a year of training and firearm safety in a class where instructors vouch for your competency and responsibility? Wouldn’t that weed out some wackos?

I work with a trauma surgeon who is a gun enthusiast. He’s the most level headed guy I know. He can crack a chest and do internal cardiac massage while chatting about dim sum and KBBQ. He never drinks mostly because he’s usually either on trauma call or vascular call and I totally trust him with a gun. But I have other friends who are also gun enthusiasts and upstanding citizens. When they invite me to go camping with them in the desert to “get drunk and shoot guns” I politely decline. Sadly for some Americans, guns are a way to blow off steam.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

Not just Chicago:

Rural America Reels From Violent Crime. ‘People Lost Their Ever-Lovin’ Minds.’ — The Wall Street Journal

Murder rates didn’t soar only in cities during the pandemic; small-town sheriffs and prosecutors are overwhelmed with homicide cases

apple.news

Coming to a farm near you… need more guns!

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Let's say your dreams come true and a magical unicorn Congress passes all of these right wing ideas tomorrow. We cut all spending by 30% by defunding social security and Medicare driving the cms conversion unit down to $10/unit (I'm assuming increasing taxes or cutting military spending are of course not allowed). How long until inflation comes under control? Any side effects from this big spending cut or is it only going to help the economy? Will it come in time for midterms? The energy things you are talking about won't come to fruition for many years, how does that help right now? Policies to encourage growth in any sector are going to take many years. Biden is being blamed for inflation and a tanking economy right now and if our logic holds that it takes years to steer the economy in any direction then we should be looking at who was in charge years ago to pin blame. But we aren't doing that are we?

You seem to have lots of criticism, maybe you and your unicorn liberal govt, all three branches, might offer a plan of sorts? Blaming the Orange Man and saying nothing can be done is getting pretty stale. Just because it might take some time to take effect certainly doesn't disqualify it from being implemented. Imagine if we had continued with the Keystone XL pipeline, it would be complete.or near completion by early 2023. I look forward to hearing your ideas on what needs to be done.

 

[nimbus]

Let's say your dreams come true and a magical unicorn Congress passes all of these right wing ideas tomorrow. We cut all spending by 30% by defunding social security and Medicare driving the cms conversion unit down to $10/unit (I'm assuming increasing taxes or cutting military spending are of course not allowed). How long until inflation comes under control? Any side effects from this big spending cut or is it only going to help the economy? Will it come in time for midterms? The energy things you are talking about won't come to fruition for many years, how does that help right now? Policies to encourage growth in any sector are going to take many years. Biden is being blamed for inflation and a tanking economy right now and if our logic holds that it takes years to steer the economy in any direction then we should be looking at who was in charge years ago to pin blame. But we aren't doing that are we?

The other thing about Medicare is that even though it reimburses anesthesia poorly, it creates demand for services and allows hospitals to exist. Why do hospital administrators tremble at the site of TJC? Because they depend on Medicare for survival. Without Medicare, half of us would be unemployed. All these hospital systems would not be building new $1B towers without Medicare.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

I work with a trauma surgeon who is a gun enthusiast. He’s the most level headed guy I know. He can crack a chest and do internal cardiac massage while chatting about dim sum and KBBQ. He never drinks mostly because he’s usually either on trauma call or vascular call and I totally trust him with a gun. But I have other friends who are also gun enthusiasts and upstanding citizens. When they invite me to go camping with them in the desert to “get drunk and shoot guns” I politely decline. Sadly for some Americans, guns are a way to blow off steam.

I'm appalled. I personally dont know anyone who does this, but recognize bad behavior exists. Anyone I hunt or shoot with will not touch a drop until after the guns are put away. I would call out anyone who did, and would leave if they didn't comply.

 

[chessknt]

You seem to have lots of criticism, maybe you and your unicorn liberal govt, all three branches, might offer a plan of sorts? Blaming the Orange Man and saying nothing can be done is getting pretty stale. Just because it might take some time to take effect certainly doesn't disqualify it from being implemented. Imagine if we had continued with the Keystone XL pipeline, it would be complete.or near completion by early 2023. I look forward to hearing your ideas on what needs to be done.

I am not the one who thinks that the government can magically cure inflation, that is the right. I think the government has very limited ability to do so beyond limiting massive deficit spending but both parties do that so I have nobody to vote for or against there. Didn't say it was Trumps fault, just that his administration contributed to it as well so it doesn't make any sense to vote the current people out to replace them with the ones that did the EXACT SAME THING.

You think a pipeline would have fixed the oil crunch? How much do you know about oil? Did you know that there are different kinds of oil that have different applications and refinery requirements? Is the oil the keystone pipeline would have transported the kind of oil that the refineries can't keep in stock right now?

 

[Lawpy]

Gun control isn’t going to work simply because of how deeply ingrained guns are in American culture + the inherently violent nature of American society. There’s also the issue of the justice system being based so heavily on revenge and punishment than rehabilitation that the 2nd Amendment protections actually have reasonable justification

 

[GravelRider]

How many 5.56 rounds were shot by rioters insurrectionists during the siege? @chessknt says that they used their second amendment to protect against "tyranny"? I guess that version of events doesn't map on well to what actually happened. He cannot even straw man the right accurately lol. He's not well.

The fact that you and the entire Fox News audience is not concerned and infuriated by the events leading up to the January 6 “event,” makes this discussion of the second amendment completely irrelevant. When a sitting President and his groveling sycophants look for multiple avenues to subvert the Constitution and the will of the American people, it seems a bit disingenuous to say “well the Constitution protects my right…blah blah blah.”

 

[yappy]

The fact that you and the entire Fox News audience is not concerned and infuriated by the events leading up to the January 6 “event,” makes this discussion of the second amendment completely irrelevant. When a sitting President and his groveling sycophants look for multiple avenues to subvert the Constitution and the will of the American people, it seems a bit disingenuous to say “well the Constitution protects my right…blah blah blah.”

It’s apples and oranges.

“Some people stormed the capital unarmed so 2A is irrelevant”

Do you think the population being armed makes government coercion easier or harder?

 

[GravelRider]

It’s apples and oranges.

“Some people stormed the capital unarmed so 2A is irrelevant”

Do you think the population being armed makes government coercion easier or harder?

You missed my point. The Constitution is either relevant or irrelevant. You either respect it in its entirety or it’s irrelevant. The Capitol being stormed was the final touch on a months long attempt to subvert the document that you claim gives you the right to being armed.

 

[AMEHigh]

If overturned, the decision would then be based on states rights, correct. If what you say is true, states will vote to keep it available. That was my understanding of it but I could be incorrect.

You’re incorrect.
Each city and state has different ways that issues can be on ballots. Just because roe were to be overturned does not mean that all 50 states are going to have a question on the ballot in November asking if abortion should be legal in that state. Right now 26 states already have "trigger" laws on the books that make abortion illegal without the federal protection of roe. I don’t think any of those states are planning to reverse those trigger laws.

Also, let’s not forget about purposeful voter suppression.

That’s why it’s also laughable to say "well just amend the constitution" to change gun laws.

 

[Matty44]

You’re incorrect.
Each city and state has different ways that issues can be on ballots. Just because roe were to be overturned does not mean that all 50 states are going to have a question on the ballot in November asking if abortion should be legal in that state. Right now 26 states already have "trigger" laws on the books that make abortion illegal without the federal protection of roe. I don’t think any of those states are planning to reverse those trigger laws.

Also, let’s not forget about purposeful voter suppression.

That’s why it’s also laughable to say "well just amend the constitution" to change gun laws.

Voter suppression is as much as a myth as massive voter fraud is. More people voted in the last election than ever before. Anyone who has a true desire to vote can cast their vote.

 

[yappy]

You missed my point. The Constitution is either relevant or irrelevant. You either respect it in its entirety or it’s irrelevant. The Capitol being stormed was the final touch on a months long attempt to subvert the document that you claim gives you the right to being armed.

We have legal processes, distributed power and procedures that worked and continue to work. I understand but disagree. Your point seems to be that people should have taken up arms for something that didn’t come close to tyranny. I don’t agree.

Edit: To clarify the bold, I respect that the constitution has the second amendment which grants the right to arms, however, by no means do I believe anyone needs a document to defend themselves. The authors were just smart and ethical enough to recognize that it exists and codify it. You might as well add the right to cellular respiration. You don’t get to decide who gets to defend themselves.

 

[chessknt]

Voter suppression is as much as a myth as massive voter fraud is. More people voted in the last election than ever before. Anyone who has a true desire to vote can cast their vote.

More than 12% of mail-in ballots were rejected in Texas under new GOP voting rules, final tally shows

Figures released by the Texas secretary of state show that more than 24,000 Texas voters had their ballots rejected in the March primary. The rejection rate is a significant increase over previous elections.

www.texastribune.org

You have to really want to vote though right? Like take time off work and be mobile enough to stand in line in the heat really?

 

[AMEHigh]

Child survivor of Uvalde shooting hospitalized and in the ICU due to cardiac issues after visiting grave site of friend killed at school (the friend was killed while calling 911). And now the family has to go fund me to help pay for hospital bills. This country is horrific.

Uvalde Survivor, 11, Hospitalized After Visiting Best Friend's Memorial

“Her heart can’t take the stress and trauma of this past week,” the fourth grader's mom wrote.

news.yahoo.com

 

[chocomorsel]

What’s up with all the personal attacks? We can argue and disagree but no reason to be disrespectful. Obviously, I struck a nerve with you (again), but this has gone beyond anything professional even on a public anonymous forum.

I already stated before there will be no compromise, why don’t we just leave things at that? I won’t even offer a counter argument or a response.

Don’t worry.
There is nothing at all sociopathic about limiting other peoples’ right to breathe by offing them like a bunch of targets due to easy access to guns you can literally buy at Walmart. But you know, people gotta have the right to own their Guns. It’s their God Given Constitutional, Great slave owning Forefather’s-thought- about-me RIGHT!!!

Nothing sociopathic at all. I mean if a few kids need to die then let them. 😏

 

[GravelRider]

We have legal processes, distributed power and procedures that worked and continue to work. I understand but disagree. Your point seems to be that people should have taken up arms for something that didn’t come close to tyranny. I don’t agree.

Edit: To clarify the bold, I respect that the constitution has the second amendment which grants the right to arms, however, by no means do I believe anyone needs a document to defend themselves. The authors were just smart and ethical enough to recognize that it exists and codify it. You might as well add the right to cellular respiration. You don’t get to decide who gets to defend themselves.

Sure, you have the biological imperative to do what it takes to survive and pass your DNA onto another generation. It’s not a “right” because that’s a sociological definition and a human creation. That’s not what I’m talking about. I’m simply stating that when the reason given for guns being so easily obtained by anybody, anywhere, and at anytime is the Constitution, but then people hand wave and shrug at an attempt to subvert that very document by a sitting President, it makes the whole “we need to respect the second amendment” thing seem a bit disingenuous to me. You can’t pick when the document applies and when it doesn’t. That’s all.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

Child survivor of Uvalde shooting hospitalized and in the ICU due to cardiac issues after visiting grave site of friend killed at school (the friend was killed while calling 911). And now the family has to go fund me to help pay for hospital bills. This country is horrific.

Uvalde Survivor, 11, Hospitalized After Visiting Best Friend's Memorial

“Her heart can’t take the stress and trauma of this past week,” the fourth grader's mom wrote.

news.yahoo.com

Product of selfish behavior:

Libertarianism is for petulant children: Ayn Rand, Rand Paul and the movement's sad "rebellion" - Salon.com

Libertarians fancy themselves radicals, and yet their rallying cry can be reduced to "You're not the boss of me!"

www.salon.com

“The founding fathers, for all the hagiographic praise and worship they receive as ritual in America, had no significant interest in freedom beyond their own social station, regardless of the poetry they put on paper. Native Americans, women, black Americans, and anyone who did not own property could not vote, but “taxation without representation” was the rallying cry of the revolution. The founders reacted with righteous rage to an injustice to their class, but demonstrated no passion or prioritization of expanding their victory for liberty to anyone who did not look, think, or spend money like them…

The denial of the collective interest and communal bond, as much as libertarians like to pose as trailblazers, is not the road less traveled, but the highway in gridlock. Competitive individualism, and the perversion of personal responsibility to mean social irresponsibility, is what allows for America to limp behind the rest of the developed world in providing for the poor and creating social services for the general population.”

 

[chocomorsel]

I think you’re not well.

Because he’s pointing out that you can’t win against a tyrannical government?