I was like you, pre-pharm students.

[alprazolamborghini]

my advice is that,,,, work in the retail first b4 you even apply for pharmacy schools. 70-80% of graduates WILL get into retails (no joke). Retail is where the job market is. You think you can make lots of money becoming a pharmacist? you think there is bright future? nice car? nice house? ppl respect you? doctrine degree? Re-think. There is no bathroom break, no time for any meal, ppl talk **** about you, tuition is ridiculous (federal loan interest is 6.8%) and no one will ever care that you have a doctrine degree. YOU NEED TO WORK IN THE RETAIL B4444444444 you decide to become a pharmacist. Oh, now you might say, i will just become a hospital pharmacist. HOHOHO, it is damn competitive. remember 70 - 80 % will be retail pharmacists. Plus hospitals low ball you with like 45 dollars/hr. Just do simple math. If you have 200k loan with 6.8% interest, how much should you pay back each month? Pharmacist will bring home about 6000 dollars/month average (if you work in retail and this is after tax). You will end up paying like 4000 dollars for 5-6 years assuming the principal and interest piling up EVERYDAY. That is right EVERYDAY. Wanna live your life with just 2000 dollars/month for 5-6 yrs AFTER becoming a pharmacist?


The investment is just not worth it nowadays. Think about the future, you worked ur ass off for intense curriculum in school, and you paid sh-it loads of money for your tuition. AND there is no freakin job out there that you gotta relocate? leaving your family and friends? Isnt it so damn depressing?
Grab any pharmacist (not the dinosaur ones), and ask them. YES, everyone kinda complains about their jobs and whatnot. BUT, pharmacy is much worse than other healthcare fields at the present. Heed my word ppl....I EFFIN regret coming to pharmacy school. It is just not worth it with all the tuition we pay and the tight job market.

Once you work for the chains, you will know what I mean.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[PharmtoCS]

There are other fields such as software engineering, physician assistant, accounting, finance, other engineering, etc. that provide far better returns on investments for your education. These fields do not require you to graduate with $200k+ debt and 4 years of your life down the drain, may pay as well if not better than in pharmacy, and provide a similar if not better work-life balance compared to pharmacy. As a software engineer, you can start at $100k even without a college degree and minimal debt with multiple job offers. You also get bathroom breaks.

 

[RxStudentatUB]

The majority of jobs are in retail, yes. However, the majority of students will be lucky to find a retail job!

 

[AK315]

I am getting my masters right now and I still have one more year to go and I am also currently on the waitlist for 2 pharmacy schools and I am debating whether pharmacy school(that is if i get accepted) is the right choice for me considering the tuition and job market for pharmacist?

 

[PharmtoCS]

I am getting my masters right now and I still have one more year to go and I am also currently on the waitlist for 2 pharmacy schools and I am debating whether pharmacy school(that is if i get accepted) is the right choice for me considering the tuition and job market for pharmacist?

According to the posts above, the answer is a definite NO.

 

[mjmjoa]

Just a couple of things:

1. I don't know of a single school that has that high tuition to give you 200k after 4 years. Not saying there aren't, but certainly none that most people would apply to.
2. It's not that hard to find a job depending on your situation. If you know the right people, you can easily find a job. The problem with pharmacy is the jobs are already filled up, and new jobs aren't made (you don't see more CVSs being built, for example), so like ANY job, it'll become over-saturated. Personally I don't think it would be a problem finding a job.
3. As for the "no bathroom break" comment, I don't think that's true at all. With mail order, stores will be a little less busy. The pharmacy I work at isn't busy at all most of the days. And, of course, there are hospital jobs also.

So everything you said is kind of a combination of all the worst-case scenarios.

 

[RxStudentatUB]

Just a couple of things:

1. I don't know of a single school that has that high tuition to give you 200k after 4 years. Not saying there aren't, but certainly none that most people would apply to.
2. It's not that hard to find a job depending on your situation. If you know the right people, you can easily find a job. The problem with pharmacy is the jobs are already filled up, and new jobs aren't made (you don't see more CVSs being built, for example), so like ANY job, it'll become over-saturated. Personally I don't think it would be a problem finding a job.
3. As for the "no bathroom break" comment, I don't think that's true at all. With mail order, stores will be a little less busy. The pharmacy I work at isn't busy at all most of the days. And, of course, there are hospital jobs also.

So everything you said is kind of a combination of all the worst-case scenarios.

Said the 5,000th SDN member with a pre-pharmacy sig! I do commend your ability to put on the blindfolds to the colorful warning signs posted by actual practicing pharmacists and 4th year students, though.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Said the 5,000th SDN member with a pre-pharmacy sig! I do commend your ability to put on the blindfolds to the colorful warning signs posted by actual practicing pharmacists and 4th year students, though.

Just a couple of things:

2. It's not that hard to find a job depending on your situation. If you know the right people, you can easily find a job. The problem with pharmacy is the jobs are already filled up, and new jobs aren't made (you don't see more CVSs being built, for example), so like ANY job, it'll become over-saturated. Personally I don't think it would be a problem finding a job.

From a mathematical standpoint, as many 26% of new grads will be unemployed by 2018 when another wave of pharmacy schools graduate their first class. Finding a job is a problem when supply of pharmacists >>> demand. Also, there are fields such as software engineering that are NOT saturated (in fact in very high demand), do not require $150k+ student loans, and pay six figures straight out of college.

 

[Gombrich12]

http://bhpr.hrsa.gov/healthworkforce/supplydemand/usworkforce/projections/pharmacists.pdf

The government says there will be a surplus of about 50,000 (14%) pharmacists in the next 10 years. Other projections I've seen show about a 26% unemployment rate for new graduates over the next decade. The time and money commitment for pharmacy is simply too great for me to encourage someone to enroll. If you're already in school it may be wise to drop out or graduate depending on your particular circumstances.

 

[UGAZ]

http://bhpr.hrsa.gov/healthworkforce/supplydemand/usworkforce/projections/pharmacists.pdf

The government says there will be a surplus of about 50,000 (14%) pharmacists in the next 10 years. Other projections I've seen show about a 26% unemployment rate for new graduates over the next decade. The time and money commitment for pharmacy is simply too great for me to encourage someone to enroll. If you're already in school it may be wise to drop out or graduate depending on your particular circumstances.

Government lies...and their number can never be correct. Just as they say the unemployment is below <5.5%....Really? Lol...what a joke.
I expect the unemployment in pharmacists will be at least 30% by 2018. (3 years from now).

 

[alprazolamborghini]

bump for naive pre-pharms

 

[GypsyHummus]

But you guys make 100K out of school. So even if you have 100K in student loans, it is worth it

 

[PharmtoCS]

But you guys make 100K out of school. So even if you have 100K in student loans, it is worth it

So can software engineers WITHOUT the $100k (nowadays closer to $200k or more) debt, and much better job prospects.

 

[y0ssarian87]

So can software engineers WITHOUT the $100k (nowadays closer to $200k or more) debt, and much better job prospects.

Where are you getting these numbers from? My software engineering friends who work for large companies in SF don't make that much. They make over $100k, but not a ton more. And the COL is astronomical there.

 

[alprazolamborghini]

But you guys make 100K out of school. So even if you have 100K in student loans, it is worth it

LOL You clearly do not know what you are talking about. Do simple math. 100k isnt 100k when you bring home dear. Plus, average loan for pharmacy school is 150K+. Go do some research with your parents kid

 

[Sugoi Travis]

But you guys make 100K out of school.

Uhh no. More like 60-70k POST-TAX income on average (depending on where you live as well as your salary). You're gonna need to pull OT if you want to take home 100k.

So even if you have 100K in student loans, it is worth it

Again, no. You're not factoring in an individual's desire to pay off the loans, which plays a huge financial role. The amount that you pay over the life of the loan is dependent on how aggressive you are in killing the debt. The more aggressive you are, the less interest you pay.

 

[GypsyHummus]

LOL You clearly do not know what you are talking about. Do simple math. 100k isnt 100k when you bring home dear. Plus, average loan for pharmacy school is 150K+. Go do some research with your parents kid

Very condescending. If u make 130k/yr, u can take home round 98k.

Go to a state school

Uhh no. More like 60-70k POST-TAX income on average (depending on where you live as well as your salary). You're gonna need to pull OT if you want to take home 100k.



Again, no. You're not factoring in an individual's desire to pay off the loans, which plays a huge financial role. The amount that you pay over the life of the loan is dependent on how aggressive you are in killing the debt. The more aggressive you are, the less interest you pay.

Easy, even if u take home 70k a year. Live off of 20k and throw the 50k at student loan for 5 years.

 

[alprazolamborghini]

Very condescending. If u make 130k/yr, u can take home round 98k.

Go to a state school



Easy, even if u take home 70k a year. Live off of 20k and throw the 50k at student loan for 5 years.

LOLLLL I dont know where you are getting these numbers from. Can I laugh at your 98k? I guess you only thought about federal tax lol. THere is state tax, ss tax, etc. it comes around 35~38% depending on the state you live in. That means you are gonna bring home about 80k.

I dont think you get my point. My point is that pharmacy field is not worth it considering current job market. Also, it is damn hard to find jobs. 130k does not come easily.

You know what? since you are so ignorant, just go to pharmacy school. What can I do here right?

Just come back to my post like 10 years from today and regret your stupid decision.

 

[y0ssarian87]

LOLLLL I dont know where you are getting these numbers from. Can I laugh at your 98k? I guess you only thought about federal tax lol. THere is state tax, ss tax, etc. it comes around 35~38% depending on the state you live in. That means you are gonna bring home about 80k.

Several states have no state income tax in which case $98k would be reasonable.

Just come back to my post like 10 years from today and regret your stupid decision.

You just completed your P2 year, right? You already regret your decision? What didn't you know before you started school, and what misconceptions did you have regarding pharmacy? You sound awfully jaded for an incoming P3.

I just finished my P2 year as well. I have seen many students from my school go on to work for local hospitals or retail right out of school. I have seen many more students go into residency or fellowship programs. Some students continue to pursue other education (PhD, MPH, JD, etc). I have not seen many students struggle to find employment. I have seen students struggle to get the type of employment they want, but these are mostly students who didn't work in a hospital during school by choice. Despite having two pharmacy schools in my city, it's still easy to secure a hospital internship here. I'd recommend that pre-pharmacy students consider the internship job market when applying to schools.

 

[RxStudentatUB]

Many state schools still charge upwards of $20K annual tuition that just keeps getting higher. The state school near me is the University of Maryland - Baltimore campus and it is roughly $12K per semester (NOT year). The situation is similar up and down the Eastern coastline. This is not exactly the best bargain when pursuing a profession which is getting worse by the year when its own lobbying group encourages capitalist ventures to expand pharmacy education. It is not exactly the best idea to aim for retail either. Hours and help are decreasing, followed by wages and benefits. There are financially better options out there when pursuing a career in health care.

 

[fewaopi]

Very condescending. If u make 130k/yr, u can take home round 98k.

Go to a state school

Easy, even if u take home 70k a year. Live off of 20k and throw the 50k at student loan for 5 years.

You forgot property taxes, rent, car insurance, health insurance (not all pharmacy employers cover), retirement, expenses, student loans, (mortgage if you even qualify or have enough to make a downpayment) so your take-home discretionary spending is much much lower into the couple tens of thousands.

This is part of the student loan crisis going on in the country. A lot of overconfidence and belief that things will turn out all right as long as they listen to what people selling them stuff (consumables, degrees, w/e) tell them. That and young students being naive (trust me we were all at this point) make them an easy demographic to exploit and target which in the end bites back on all of us. Plus not all pharmacists make 130K, in fact that's that's a minority and it's a growing minority since wages are flat (not just pharmacy but majority of careers). The stability of your career also isn't helped by tens of thousands of desperate debt-ridden prepharmers (now pharmds) every year. Remember there's 50 states, 15000 new grads, so 300 pharmacists for every state every year. Now markets like urban CA, NYC metro, or any metro area are already saturated. Now let's also say average store on the low end serves a population of 5000 people (my area is less than that and yeah there's poly pharmacy but in a geographic area that's outside a metro, 5000 sounds pretty reasonable). So that's 300*5000 = 1500000 people who can be served by an entire class of retail pharmacists every year in one state. Yeah one state. Not all states are needing their meds that much or growing that much. There are a lot of variables of course (polypharmacy, people not filling Rx's, people healthy and not needing Rx's, mail order, mail order, mail order). It's quite easy to imagine the situation when pharmacy is overcrowded so you're seeing more people trying to find alternative careers.

When you now hear more pharmacy students asking on SDN about alternative careers, it isn't just "oh I don't enjoy retail", but a quiet acceptance and acknowledgment that employment in their area of choice is hard to come by so they have to plan a career switch. Not enjoying retail is sort of a nice excuse to provide to others when asked why they don't work in a pharmacy when reality is that jobs are harder to come by and less stable. And the poor job market makes that decision for a different career much much easier because...what's the alternative? Have to find other lines of work by post-grad training/schooling or somewhere left-field. It's becoming a sign of desperation more now.

Why not just be a cop? That has to be the easiest job in the world. I heard somewhere that more pharmacists get killed and shot up than actual cops. Cops only need a high school degree, make crazy amounts of $$, nice pension, easy work, if you kill someone and make a mistake, you have a high chance of getting away with it. And most prepharmers are more qualified than the cops we have now...give it a shot. Firefighting too makes crazy $$$. Those guys and cops are criminal in a big sense. But if you're Asian then yeah the cop/firefighting scene will be impossible to break into.

 

[GypsyHummus]

LOLLLL I dont know where you are getting these numbers from. Can I laugh at your 98k? I guess you only thought about federal tax lol. THere is state tax, ss tax, etc. it comes around 35~38% depending on the state you live in. That means you are gonna bring home about 80k.

I dont think you get my point. My point is that pharmacy field is not worth it considering current job market. Also, it is damn hard to find jobs. 130k does not come easily.

You know what? since you are so ignorant, just go to pharmacy school. What can I do here right?

Just come back to my post like 10 years from today and regret your stupid decision.

80K isn't horrible if the loans were not monstrous.

and no way, I'm not going to pharm school, too little return on investment

Many state schools still charge upwards of $20K annual tuition that just keeps getting higher. The state school near me is the University of Maryland - Baltimore campus and it is roughly $12K per semester (NOT year). The situation is similar up and down the Eastern coastline. This is not exactly the best bargain when pursuing a profession which is getting worse by the year when its own lobbying group encourages capitalist ventures to expand pharmacy education. It is not exactly the best idea to aim for retail either. Hours and help are decreasing, followed by wages and benefits. There are financially better options out there when pursuing a career in health care.

ouch, 12K a semester? I think that the feds should stop giving out easy money, then the prices will start to drop.

You forgot property taxes, rent, car insurance, health insurance (not all pharmacy employers cover), retirement, expenses, student loans, (mortgage if you even qualify or have enough to make a downpayment) so your take-home discretionary spending is much much lower into the couple tens of thousands.

This is part of the student loan crisis going on in the country. A lot of overconfidence and belief that things will turn out all right as long as they listen to what people selling them stuff (consumables, degrees, w/e) tell them. That and young students being naive (trust me we were all at this point) make them an easy demographic to exploit and target which in the end bites back on all of us. Plus not all pharmacists make 130K, in fact that's that's a minority and it's a growing minority since wages are flat (not just pharmacy but majority of careers). The stability of your career also isn't helped by tens of thousands of desperate debt-ridden prepharmers (now pharmds) every year. Remember there's 50 states, 15000 new grads, so 300 pharmacists for every state every year. Now markets like urban CA, NYC metro, or any metro area are already saturated. Now let's also say average store on the low end serves a population of 5000 people (my area is less than that and yeah there's poly pharmacy but in a geographic area that's outside a metro, 5000 sounds pretty reasonable). So that's 300*5000 = 1500000 people who can be served by an entire class of retail pharmacists every year in one state. Yeah one state. Not all states are needing their meds that much or growing that much. There are a lot of variables of course (polypharmacy, people not filling Rx's, people healthy and not needing Rx's, mail order, mail order, mail order). It's quite easy to imagine the situation when pharmacy is overcrowded so you're seeing more people trying to find alternative careers.

When you now hear more pharmacy students asking on SDN about alternative careers, it isn't just "oh I don't enjoy retail", but a quiet acceptance and acknowledgment that employment in their area of choice is hard to come by so they have to plan a career switch. Not enjoying retail is sort of a nice excuse to provide to others when asked why they don't work in a pharmacy when reality is that jobs are harder to come by and less stable. And the poor job market makes that decision for a different career much much easier because...what's the alternative? Have to find other lines of work by post-grad training/schooling or somewhere left-field. It's becoming a sign of desperation more now.

Why not just be a cop? That has to be the easiest job in the world. I heard somewhere that more pharmacists get killed and shot up than actual cops. Cops only need a high school degree, make crazy amounts of $$, nice pension, easy work, if you kill someone and make a mistake, you have a high chance of getting away with it. And most prepharmers are more qualified than the cops we have now...give it a shot. Firefighting too makes crazy $$$. Those guys and cops are criminal in a big sense. But if you're Asian then yeah the cop/firefighting scene will be impossible to break into.

You had me till the last paragraph. Cops don't make lots of $$, they start at like 50K a year. And Asians can't be cops?

 

[fewaopi]

80K isn't horrible if the loans were not monstrous.

and no way, I'm not going to pharm school, too little return on investment



ouch, 12K a semester? I think that the feds should stop giving out easy money, then the prices will start to drop.



You had me till the last paragraph. Cops don't make lots of $$, they start at like 50K a year. And Asians can't be cops?

Cops do start low (50K is seen as a lot to some, not to others) but rapidly go up. I spoke with a tech whose family were cops/firefighters. They start at 50K but rapidly go up (told me 10-25% raises EVERY YEAR) i had a hard time believing that up to 90-100K. And I know people who handle pension payments for them and they do extremely well for the little work/effort and lately incompetence they put into their work. If you put in the time, you come out very very well.

I say Asians can't be cops depending on the neighborhood. NYPD the exception, a lot of police and firefighting departments are white boy clubs only. There was a court case in Connecticut a while back about a black/hispanic that couldn't get in to a firefighting department and filed a lawsuit claiming discrimination. From media images and reports, black cops are underrepresented in their neighborhoods though they seem to be out there in good numbers. And of course Asians are a very small minority but in addition to not being seen as prestigious or in the radar for Asian families to push kids into the police force, they also know it's a white boy's club in majority of cases and it's hard for most Asians to network your way and fit into a group of people that in many ways bully people or are not properly trained. Personally I think cops should at least be college educated and think before shooting. Cops should be paid high for being competent, not plain murdering, dragging people on bikes, DEA agents pimping, etc.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Why not just be a cop? That has to be the easiest job in the world. I heard somewhere that more pharmacists get killed and shot up than actual cops. Cops only need a high school degree, make crazy amounts of $$, nice pension, easy work, if you kill someone and make a mistake, you have a high chance of getting away with it. And most prepharmers are more qualified than the cops we have now...give it a shot. Firefighting too makes crazy $$$. Those guys and cops are criminal in a big sense. But if you're Asian then yeah the cop/firefighting scene will be impossible to break into.

lol...if Asians can't break into the cop/firefighting professions then computer programming is probably the best option, especially if you're South Asian. Computer programmers don't need any degree at all (if self-taught), also make ridiculous amounts of money, receive generous stock options and other benefits, and are showered with excellent perks (i.e. nap pods, 3 gourmet meals a day, recreational facilities, on-site laundry/dry-cleaning facilities, on-site gyms, shuttle buses that drop you off near your house, etc.), don't have to take verbal abuse all day in retail, don't have to worry about getting sued if they write bad code, and are treated with immensely more respect as they are the "future."

 

[Sugoi Travis]

Easy, even if u take home 70k a year. Live off of 20k and throw the 50k at student loan for 5 years.

It is definitely not easy to live off of 20k and in some areas of the U.S., it is an impossible thing to do. Pulling a 20k/year total expenditure will require you to live in a low COL area AND make many sacrifices. If you honestly believe that it's easy then real life is going to hit you like a truck.

 

[GypsyHummus]

It is definitely not easy to live off of 20k and in some areas of the U.S., it is an impossible thing to do. Pulling a 20k/year total expenditure will require you to live in a low COL area AND make many sacrifices. If you honestly believe that it's easy then real life is going to hit you like a truck.

No, its not easy, but that is the life you have to live for 5 years to get out of debt. Otherwise, its going to be 15-20 years before people pay off their debt.