If doctors are so miserable & burnt out, why do so many of their kids still want to go to medical school?

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DJay4534533

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I'm currently in medical school right now, and I would guesstimate that literally about half of my class has a parent whose a doctor. Of that percentage, I would say about 10% of them have two parents that are doctors.

So, just curious...and I'd love to hear from people who have parents that are doctors..but what REALLY made you go into medicine despite knowing the long, hard road that lies ahead of you? You were never scared away from being a doctor, after seeing all the hours mom/dad puts in and how rarely they are home? Also, I imagine most doctor parents would steer their children away from medicine (at least thats what I've always heard)? What made you do it anyway?
 
Current M1 with a doctor dad. I think the 50% stat sounds about right. A lot of us either come from medical families or are the complete opposite (ex. first one to go to college).

My dad's in private practice pain management. Mostly does injections and other small procedures these days. Definitely wasn't home a ton growing up, but always told me he loved his work and wouldn't change a thing. He did try to steer me away from it for a while. When I committed to applying and he realized he wouldn't be able to change my mind, we had a long talk about how tough this journey would be. But at the end of the day, i chose this anyway because I can't imagine doing anything else
 
Because I’ve decided that despite seeing them burnt out and frustrated with all of the bureaucratic bs, id rather go into medicine than be one of the millions of people who are forced to spend the better part of their adult lives staring at the blank walls of a cubicle.
Plus, when you grow up surrounded by drs you don’t just get to see them when they’re burnt out, you also get to see how rewarding the profession can be and how passionate they are about the field
 
My dad's an orthopedic surgeon. I'm in the middle of my ortho residency. He loves everything about his job, except continuing government encroachment and EMR's. Orthopedic surgery is cool and everyone knows it. Intramedullary nails, joint replacements, locking plates, hip hop BBQ pandora station, ex fix's, lag screws, arthroscopy, suture anchors, and so much more. Why would I not want to do what he does? Yes, he worked a lot when I was young, and he still does, but he enjoys his job more than anyone else I know of and patients benefit greatly from the work he does. Most kids I talked to growing up didn't know what their parents actually did for work. I knew exactly what my dad did. He explained to me what cephallomedullary nail was when I was 11. I assisted him with closed reductions of wrists, shoulders, and hips in the ED starting when I was 12. Orthopedics is fun and there is nothing else I'd rather do. Not everything in medicine is doom and gloom
 
Because despite the constant complaining, whining, and people making themselves victims online; it’s still one of the best jobs in the world, and still a job associated with high income and lay respect, just that it’s a really, really tough path to get there.
 
If I wasnt in medical school Id be slaving away at some desk job I hate working for "the man" and working my tail off to (maybe and I mean a hard maybe) make the same amount of money as I would in medicine. My friends in finance work like absolute dogs and are miserable like completely miserable. They work 10-12 hours per day like we do studying as MS2s and on rotations and in residency. Sure they do well, but at the end of the day down the road wont be any better off than any med student or doctor out there and they don't get to save lives. There is a reason why every year thousands upon thousands of people apply to medical school. Its a hard road but when you compare it to other professions it really is a pretty awesome job. Sure you have your very rare occasion where you know people that made it big as an entrepreneur and they basically chill on a yacht all day in monaco and work from their ipad but that isn't real life. When you sit down a really look at pros vs cons being a physician is one of the best jobs in the world hands down. People just like to complain. Example-Allergist I shadow works in an Allergy group from 8am-3pm makes about 325K a year low stress having fun doing what he loves. guy does his notes between patients and is literally out of there by 3pm. that is like a school day getting paid over a quarter of a mill/yr
 
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Its all relative. I disagree with the other posters, medicine sucks a lot. Many of the decisions that are made are completely in the name of CYA. EMR eats up a significant amount of time of your day. Debt is insane. Training length is significant. Pay is poor while in residency.

The main attractions of being a physician relate to job security. The field is recession proof, there are always job openings, and you have strong bargaining power against your employer/insurance/government.

Look around you at what the rest of the population is going through. Poor wage growth. Inability to afford housing. Anemic retirement funds. Medicine is a way out from that.

Dont believe when people say you cannot do medicine for money. The truth is, that is a big big determinant for any field you go into.
 
I’ve met a couple students who told me point-blank that they didn’t know what other careers were out there, so they just followed their parents’ footsteps. One of the many reasons the “straight from high school to college” pathway needs to be de-glamorized as the “right” path.
 
I honestly think you don’t really know what it’s like to actually be a doctor until you’re a doctor. So seeing someone else’s career is different than experiencing it.
Also I feel like physician parents probably have high expectations.
 
MerYangBey said:
I honestly think you don’t really know what it’s like to actually be a doctor until you’re a doctor. So seeing someone else’s career is different than experiencing it.
Also I feel like physician parents probably have high expectations.
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I agree with the first half of your post, but I’ve always heard that most physician parents discourage their own children from going into medicine.
 
I want my kids to make their own decisions about what they want to do with their lives, but if they asked me about it I would say that, frustrations about the work aside and the challenging training process, it's a very fulfilling, interesting, and unique career. I love my work, and I don't know what else you can ask for from a job.
 
After almost having to drop out of college cuz my family got hit hard by the recession, and working factory jobs and manual labor, there really isn’t a job that can compare. Sure it sucks to get through it all. I definitely see there’s a different level of appreciation from the people from not as well off families, lot less complaining about trivial things, etc.

there is no perfect job. Or at least it’s extremely rare. A job is a job and this is by far the best one. There is no other job that gives you the security and financial gain
 
DJay4534533 said:
I agree with the first half of your post, but I’ve always heard that most physician parents discourage their own children from going into medicine.
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I meant that physicians have high expectations so their kids desire to be successful. And being a doctor seems like a good way to do it. I didn’t mean that the parents encourage it. But obviously that’s all speculation because I have no doctors in my family.
 
pefro123 said:
My dad's an orthopedic surgeon. I'm in the middle of my ortho residency. He loves everything about his job, except continuing government encroachment and EMR's. Orthopedic surgery is cool and everyone knows it. Intramedullary nails, joint replacements, locking plates, hip hop BBQ pandora station, ex fix's, lag screws, arthroscopy, suture anchors, and so much more. Why would I not want to do what he does? Yes, he worked a lot when I was young, and he still does, but he enjoys his job more than anyone else I know of and patients benefit greatly from the work he does. Most kids I talked to growing up didn't know what their parents actually did for work. I knew exactly what my dad did. He explained to me what cephallomedullary nail was when I was 11. I assisted him with closed reductions of wrists, shoulders, and hips in the ED starting when I was 12. Orthopedics is fun and there is nothing else I'd rather do. Not everything in medicine is doom and gloom
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bro hip-hop bbq radio SLAPS
 
Just for the record, and just because ...

I am NOT miserable and I am NOT burned-out.

Very contented and invested in my career and I work many hours, but still find real life (including its inevitable ups-and-downs) the very BEST life of all. 🙂
 
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pefro123 said:
I assisted him with closed reductions of wrists, shoulders, and hips in the ED starting when I was 12.
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lol what
there is no hospital in the US that would allow a college-age volunteer to perform a procedure on a patient, let alone a 12 year old child. it’s illegal.
 
From a practical perspective, what other career has a floor of 200K a year? Medicine is the most secure field out there. Not to mention being one of the most rewarding.

Some doctors might persuade their kids not to pursue medicine, but once their kids look at the other options out there they realize what a great career it is.
 
It is the safe pick for majority of folks.
You help people.
You have a clear role
You have an essentially guaranteed 6-figure income.

Many likely reflect on burnt out docs and imagine themselves doing XYZ differently than those people.
 
Frazier said:
It is the safe pick for majority of folks.
You help people.
You have a clear role
You have an essentially guaranteed 6-figure income.

Many likely reflect on burnt out docs and imagine themselves doing XYZ differently than those people.
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Exactly. Most of the burnout I see is people who have had to deal with explosion of charting and all the other BS (warranted), and also the ones who came in expecting to make 300k for 9-5 with no student loans and are in it for the wrong reasons (money). You make great money sure, but its nowhere near what it used to be and I think people are finally getting that
 
My parents were modestly successful in business, and didn't dissuade me from medicine though in retrospect I wish they would have.

I will steer my kids away from medicine. Instead will encourage them to either work very hard at something that pays off in time for them to enjoy the fruits of their labor when they are young, such as business or engineering, and/or find something that they can do to pay the bills but gives them ample free time.

If I have learned anything from this process it's that time is way more valuable than money. However if you are going to sacrifice your time then you'd better get compensated lucratively. Unfortunately in medicine you have neither time nor money until mid-30s assuming you make it a priority to pay off loans quickly.

Physicians of the old guard may recommend medicine because they had it so well from multiple angles: pay, low debt, prestige, less regulations, no EMR, more time with patients etc. Many can easily pay for the next generation's tuition if they budgeted appropriately. Easy for them to feel like it will be a similar situation for their kids and so they recommend it. And honestly with no loans I could see generations perpetuating the cycle. However for first generation docs the golden handcuffs of debt combined with relatively lower pay does not easily afford the same life and satisfaction. I think in 20-30 years you'll still see some "legacy doctor families" but far fewer 2nd generation docs. Just my opinion.
 
DJay4534533 said:
I mean...people always like to cite engineers & people who pursue MBAs whenever they tell pre-Med students that there are other ways to get rich
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average salary for an mba holder is ~100k per usnews whereas for physicians it is 313k per medscape. Even though medicine isn’t nearly as lucrative as it was back when our parents went into it, that doesn’t change the fact that obtaining an md/do essentially guarantees you’ll be in the top 5%. Same can’t be said for getting an advanced business or engineering degree.

sure you delay your earning potential by a considerable while but long term it should pay off + you have a far better employment outlook in the event of an economic downturn than most of those in business fields
 
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DJay4534533 said:
I mean...people always like to cite engineers & people who pursue MBAs whenever they tell pre-Med students that there are other ways to get rich
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Delusional people who have 0 insight into how other careers work. Most engineers have a tough time crossing 100k. To make even a pediatrician income you need to look into management.
MBAs? Lol. Sure maybe the top 2-3%. But then again, what about the top 2-3% of docs? They're making 7 figures with ease.

At least as a doctor you somewhat control your income. No one is stopping you as a family doctor for example from working fast-paced efficient hours in a busy community setting and making >400k/yr. But you can't just go and do that as an engineer or MBA or banker or anyone.
 
I think at the end of the day there just isn't as many good options out there as people say here. If you don't like to code, or your not strong in math, you eliminate finace, engineering and programming in one fell swoop. Theres still business, but that requires a lot of soft skills to get way ahead that many people just don't have. Those are the fields where I see people who are really doing better than me at my age. Otherwise, besides other healthcare advanced practice, there isn't a lot of comparable careers.

You can literally be a robot and still be a physician and make 200k as a pathologist or 400k reading imaging. Sure we don't have it as good as we used too, but we started off a lot better off than most other careers.
 
BorntobeDO? said:
I think at the end of the day there just isn't as many good options out there as people say here. If you don't like to code, or your not strong in math, you eliminate finace, engineering and programming in one fell swoop. Theres still business, but that requires a lot of soft skills to get way ahead that many people just don't have. Those are the fields where I see people who are really doing better than me at my age. Otherwise, besides other healthcare advanced practice, there isn't a lot of comparable careers.

You can literally be a robot and still be a physician and make 200k as a pathologist or 400k reading imaging. Sure we don't have it as good as we used too, but we started off a lot better off than most other careers.
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Exactly this. People with little to no experience of how most people live are some of the ones most up in arms. At minimum I'll be making more than double my parents combined
 
MedicineZ0Z said:
Delusional people who have 0 insight into how other careers work. Most engineers have a tough time crossing 100k. To make even a pediatrician income you need to look into management.
MBAs? Lol. Sure maybe the top 2-3%. But then again, what about the top 2-3% of docs? They're making 7 figures with ease.

At least as a doctor you somewhat control your income. No one is stopping you as a family doctor for example from working fast-paced efficient hours in a busy community setting and making >400k/yr. But you can't just go and do that as an engineer or MBA or banker or anyone.
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I’m not sure if this is a deliberate joke to highlight the innumeracy of physicians, but there are something like 200k MBAs produced a year, and only 20K MDs.

So, it would not be hard to imagine that all MDs could be in the top 10% of MBAs with their IQs, work ethic, etc.

Sources: Total Number of Medical School Graduates ; Why the MBA has become the most popular master's degree in the U.S.
 
CheGuevaraMD said:
I’m not sure if this is a deliberate joke to highlight the innumeracy of physicians, but there are something like 200k MBAs produced a year, and only 20K MDs.

So, it would not be hard to imagine that all MDs could be in the top 10% of MBAs with their IQs, work ethic, etc.

Sources: Total Number of Medical School Graduates ; Why the MBA has become the most popular master's degree in the U.S.
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The world of business doesn't reward hard work like medicine does.
 
MedicineZ0Z said:
The world of business doesn't reward hard work like medicine does.
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Plus, different traits are selected for. Being a science nerd doesn't get you nearly as far in business as it does in medicine.
 
Because most of them watch shows like scrubs and they think life is like that and they are gonna meet a cute Doctor who they will marry, have kids make millions of dollars. People are gonna give them money just to wear white coats.
They see the romantic side of life.
 
MedicineZ0Z said:
Keep it real, no other career has an easy path to 300k/year.
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You just devalued the work of all the physicians. Literally no other profession in this world comes with the same arduous path. The cumulative hours spent + all personal sacrifices that comes with the path to a physician exceeds with a massive margin the cumulative hours of the CEOs of the top 500 companies, the 20 year old celebrities on Youtube who rake in millions a month through ad revenue or the 19 year old Soccer player who just signed a 50 million USD 3 year contract with Barcelona. Yet, physicians only earn six figures. It's pissing me off to no end.

Either way, I just wanted to point out that what you probably mean is that there is no other guaranteed way to a 300k a year in this life. Don't ever call it easy.
 
DrRealistic said:
You just devalued the work of all the physicians. Literally no other profession in this world comes with the same arduous path. The cumulative hours spent + all personal sacrifices that comes with the path to a physician exceeds with a massive margin the cumulative hours of the CEOs of the top 500 companies, the 20 year old celebrities on Youtube who rake in millions a month through ad revenue or the 19 year old Soccer player who just signed a 50 million USD 3 year contract with Barcelona. Yet, physicians only earn six figures. It's pissing me off to no end.

Either way, I just wanted to point out that what you probably mean is that there is no other guaranteed way to a 300k a year in this life. Don't ever call it easy.
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Jesus Christ, its medical school, not becoming a Navy SEAL. Sure, med school is hard, just like plenty of jobs and plenty of other training pathways. Doctors don't have a monopoly on academic rigor, working crappy hours, or dealing with death and suffering. My 4 years in school haven't been much more stressful than my last job, and I haven't had to deal with getting shot or assaulted, which is a decent tradeoff.

The more you try to compare your work:income ratio to other people, the less happy you're going to be.
 
DrRealistic said:
You just devalued the work of all the physicians. Literally no other profession in this world comes with the same arduous path. The cumulative hours spent + all personal sacrifices that comes with the path to a physician exceeds with a massive margin the cumulative hours of the CEOs of the top 500 companies, the 20 year old celebrities on Youtube who rake in millions a month through ad revenue or the 19 year old Soccer player who just signed a 50 million USD 3 year contract with Barcelona. Yet, physicians only earn six figures. It's pissing me off to no end.

Either way, I just wanted to point out that what you probably mean is that there is no other guaranteed way to a 300k a year in this life. Don't ever call it easy.
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If those jobs are so readily available, why not go for it. FFS, why not quit everything right now and become a professional bowler (successful ones can make over a million a year plus prize money) or a professional golfer (again many millions of dollars) after all, if you can do 80 hrs/week as a resident, then 80 hours a week training as a bowler/golfer ought to pay off within a few years.

Guarantee you won't take this because in your heart of hearts, you know it's a bad deal. Being a physician is on rails, do the work, get paid. Not much luck involved and your income is directly proportional to your hard work.
 
My Dad’s a doctor and loves it. It was one of the things that drew me to medicine. His eyes will light up when he talks about difficult cases and there’s nothing else he’d rather be doing with his life, even during brutal weeks. He has the type of personality that likes working pretty long hours (I do too) which helps, though he definitely does not work as much as a surgeon except on the worst weeks. If he was burnt out and miserable I probably would not have done this career. As it is I had a good picture about the costs and benefits of a medical career when I decided to go to med school and am happy to be in this field.
 
Chibucks15 said:
300k for 9-5
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Even this is an option as a physician if you set yourself up and can tolerate optho or derm. My dad's an ophthalmologist and he works 36 hours a week. I don't think he has worked more than 40 since his residency 25 years ago.
 
Cornfed101 said:
Even this is an option as a physician if you set yourself up and can tolerate optho or derm. My dad's an ophthalmologist and he works 36 hours a week. I don't think he has worked more than 40 since his residency 25 years ago.
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Plenty of FPs managing that as well
 
I came From Poooooorrrrr like many 1st gen immigrant.

If I could turn back time, I would do medicine again in a heart beat. Med school and residency is tough, but after residency the vast majority of docs don't work that much harder than many other fields. I graduated from Engineering at the top of my class in a well known program and I DOUBT I would be making as much $$$ as I do in medicine. Sure maybe I could be an executive right now but I doubt I would make 400K/yr and if I did, I am sure my hours would have been just as long as Med school. But again, I am more likely to be a widget slug likely making 100-200/yr right now.

Now would I recommend medicine to my kids? I would say a Soft yes.

I would be very proud if they become doctors but I would also be relieved that they chose an easier path. Its the selfishness in me. Proud that they have great work ethics to become a doctor and relieved that they did something where they would enjoy their 20's which I did not. Plus, they will be financially set regardless of what they do given that they will have no school debt and when I croak, all of them will be millionaires.

Win win situation in my eyes.

Now if my parents were well off and I knew that money would not be an issue, I doubt I would turn back time and go through medicine again. I would take my engineering degree, make my 100K/yr and enjoy life.
 
Cornfed101 said:
Even this is an option as a physician if you set yourself up and can tolerate optho or derm. My dad's an ophthalmologist and he works 36 hours a week. I don't think he has worked more than 40 since his residency 25 years ago.
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More common than many think. FM, Psych and IM subspecialties can also pull it off.
 
What is the alternative? Sitting behind a desk for 9-10 hrs/day so you can make 70-100k/year.


Here is the answer:

archive.nytimes.com

The Top 1 Percent: What Jobs Do They Have?

Explore the occupations and industries of the nation's wealthiest households.
archive.nytimes.com
 
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Chibucks15 said:
Exactly. Most of the burnout I see is people who have had to deal with explosion of charting and all the other BS (warranted), and also the ones who came in expecting to make 300k for 9-5 with no student loans and are in it for the wrong reasons (money). You make great money sure, but its nowhere near what it used to be and I think people are finally getting that
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Thing is, even that can be done. My W2 says that I’ve made $280,350 so far this year, I have loans but they’re being paid for me by my employer, and I’ve not had to fork over a cent for them yet. I work 26clinical hours per week, and have 3 day weekends nearly every week (I sometimes take a very light weekend of inpatient medicine call). I’m less than 2 years out of residency, don’t even have a full sized patient panel established yet.

And I’m a primary care doc, in a field that usually trades places with peds for being the lowest paid in the country.

I love my job, independent of the pay. But they pay and benefits certainly help.
 
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Not gonna speak about the medicine part; I'm not in medical school yet. However, being in my 4th gap year has given me a lot of perspective on the other side of medicine: business, finance, engineering, etc.

Engineering is brutal in college. Can't compare it to medical school, but you have to also work your ass off to get into the 6-figure salary range with just a BA/BS/BSE/etc. People may have that n=1 where their friend/spouse/parents/so on made mediocre grades from a top 25 and makes $150K, but from the vast majority of people I know from UG and in the work force, they're still pulling 60-70 hour weeks. ESPECIALLY in leadership or supervisor roles. Pharma and aerospace giants pay pretty well with very nice perks. But it's pretty damn competitive to get there.

Finance seems to be a big comparison here and in the premed forums. Accounting seems to be as well. Getting your CPA is hard as hell and getting into a Big 4 Company is pretty much about who you know. Then they start off with $80-100K a year. Growth is there but otherwise you're gonna be working your ass off. Finance is the same. Wanna make partner/secure nice benefits (company stock, bonuses, competitive vacation time?) You're gonna be pulling 70-80 hour weeks being a slave.

The only MBA that's really worth it, outside of medicine or healthcare, is if your employer pays for it. Otherwise, it's just gonna be a decent addition to your CV.

Making a lot of money each year (>$100K/year) takes a lot of time and dedication. If you're trying to work a 9-5, Monday through Friday, not many jobs are out there as lucrative as medicine (from what I've seen/heard.)

Just my $0.02. I know there are exceptions out there. These are just my observations from living in a city with a wide variety of professionals.
 
FutureSurgical said:
Not gonna speak about the medicine part; I'm not in medical school yet. However, being in my 4th gap year has given me a lot of perspective on the other side of medicine: business, finance, engineering, etc.

Engineering is brutal in college. Can't compare it to medical school, but you have to also work your ass off to get into the 6-figure salary range with just a BA/BS/BSE/etc. People may have that n=1 where their friend/spouse/parents/so on made mediocre grades from a top 25 and makes $150K, but from the vast majority of people I know from UG and in the work force, they're still pulling 60-70 hour weeks. ESPECIALLY in leadership or supervisor roles. Pharma and aerospace giants pay pretty well with very nice perks. But it's pretty damn competitive to get there.

Finance seems to be a big comparison here and in the premed forums. Accounting seems to be as well. Getting your CPA is hard as hell and getting into a Big 4 Company is pretty much about who you know. Then they start off with $80-100K a year. Growth is there but otherwise you're gonna be working your ass off. Finance is the same. Wanna make partner/secure nice benefits (company stock, bonuses, competitive vacation time?) You're gonna be pulling 70-80 hour weeks being a slave.

The only MBA that's really worth it, outside of medicine or healthcare, is if your employer pays for it. Otherwise, it's just gonna be a decent addition to your CV.

Making a lot of money each year (>$100K/year) takes a lot of time and dedication. If you're trying to work a 9-5, Monday through Friday, not many jobs are out there as lucrative as medicine (from what I've seen/heard.)

Just my $0.02. I know there are exceptions out there. These are just my observations from living in a city with a wide variety of professionals.
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Monday- Friday 9-5???? Yes there are a few specialties that do that... but most do not. Not everyone going to med school will be a dermatologist.
 
Sleepingdoc said:
Monday- Friday 9-5???? Yes there are a few specialties that do that... but most do not. Not everyone going to med school will be a dermatologist.
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Peds, FM, IM right off the bat. Nonprocedural IM subspecialty
 
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