If there's an expected doctor shortage, why is it so hard to get into med school

[mrh125]

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I'm really confused. There's an expected doctor shortage of 91,250 doctors by 2020 (http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/daily-reports/2010/october/11/doctors-issues.aspx), and based off my experiences in E.Rs there really arent enough doctors to go around (bleeding out in the hallway in stanford's emergency care for starters). Yet even with this med schools are really difficult to get into (low amount of seats high number of applicants), they're making the mcat even more lengthy under the excuse that'll enable more well-rounded students to get into med schools (that really doesn't make sense. How does being well-rounded correlate with test taking skills on a a 8 hour exam? (How about organizing more in-depth interview processes, better essay questions on the applications?), and there are so many things in med school that just seem designed to weed out students from what they want to do [board part 1 exam scores].

It really doesn't seem to make much sense at all. I understand that not everyone can become a doctor and that's necessary but putting so many obstacles in the way (many of which are totally artificial and unnecessary) just seems counter-productive and unfair. What happens to the people who want to be doctors and have all the skills necessary, but don't test well? What happens to the people that are too busy studying to have 9392349294 E.C.s when they apply to med school? Aren't we just selecting for people who can take tests better than anyone else anyway? It feels like we are just filtering people out "just because" and encouraging unnecessary competition (Unnecessary competition is probably the main reason why I didn't go to UC Berkeley as undergrad. It just ruins the atmosphere, friends, and everyone who tries really hard and does their best should be able to succeed in a positive atmosphere.)

I tried not to get too straw-mannish about this, but I'm not really getting the reasoning. It just bugs me and no I'm not trolling. This just seemed like the best place to ask. Also, there are so many "random" factors evolved in having the right scores that it's really hard to judge things like Undergraduate gpa as if it's a very valid indicator. Like in organic chemistry i had a really good instructor and thus got all A+s, yet some of my friends had the foreign professor with a thick accent, no office hours, who tested them on graduate level o-chem and did not-so-well.

 

[circulus vitios]

The doctor shortage is a lie. It's maldistribution of doctors. They can't find enough people who want to practice primary care, or practice any type of medicine in the middle no where.

 

[mrh125]

The doctor shortage is a lie. It's maldistribution of doctors. They can't find enough people who want to practice primary care, or practice any type of medicine in the middle no where.

That does make sense to a degree, but with an ever expanding population and increase in scientific advances, doesn't it make sense that there is a need for more doctors than the number of seats in med schools currently? With my experiences at E.R.s (not just one) it seems like a few more doctors could really be used. I'm not sure if the error is in understaffing or it's intended to be that way for a reason though (i might be missing something, but this is one of the common complaints you hear from people).

 

[chillaxbro]

Obviously it's to keep the salary of doctors artificially high

 

[Gut Shot]

The doctor shortage is a lie. It's maldistribution of doctors. They can't find enough people who want to practice primary care, or practice any type of medicine in the middle no where.

A maldistribution and shortage are not mutually exclusive. The production of practicing physicians has been essentially level for the last 15 years due to the budget cap on residency positions. Depending on where you look the average age of a doctor is currently about 54, with many planning to retire within the next 10 years. Overlay with population growth, the aging of the baby boomers, and expansion of health coverage under the ACA, and there is a recipe for a genuine shortage.

 

[gyngyn]

A maldistribution and shortage are not mutually exclusive. The production of practicing physicians has been essentially level for the last 15 years due to the budget cap on residency positions. Depending on where you look the average age of a doctor is currently about 54, with many planning to retire within the next 10 years. Overlay with population growth, the aging of the baby boomers, and expansion of health coverage under the ACA, and there is a recipe for a genuine shortage.

This is the bottleneck.

 

[darkjedi]

What happens to the people that are too busy studying to have 9392349294 E.C.s when they apply to med school? Aren't we just selecting for people who can take tests better than anyone else anyway?

So which is it? The admissions process is shifting towards more well-rounded people because those are the types of people who can bring something to both the school and the profession in general. Med schools are not looking for test taking automatons who have no interest in the people aspect of medicine.

The selection process is by no means perfect, but there are reasons for why schools look for certain things, i.e. people who have the time management skills to balance EC's, schoolwork, and also life. Standardized tests are not ideal, but they are the best way to compare across students that can have wildly different sets of GPAs depending on how their schools curve. The new MCAT is designed so that they aren't just selecting for people who are amazing at only the sciences, and try to capture those with more 'non-traditional' backgrounds.

The shortage is also not due to the difficulty of getting into med school currently, but rather the limited number of residency slots/graduates each year.

 

[mrh125]

Obviously it's to keep the salary of doctors artificially high

I had this idea in the back of my mind too though can't salaries still be pretty high from working hard and meeting the needs of people who normally couldn't have their needs met?

 

[freakingoutabit]

I had this idea in the back of my mind too though can't salaries still be pretty high just by working hard and meeting the needs of people who normally couldn't have their needs met?

No. Look at the legal profession's nightmare. If you have a glut of any type of professional, you'll end up with unemployment and a drop in salaries in that field. Working hard doesn't make a difference if there just isn't enough demand for what you do. By maintaining a shortage of doctors, the medical profession protects job stability, job availability, and salaries.

 

[Gut Shot]

I'm really confused. There's an expected doctor shortage of 91,250 doctors by 2020 (http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/daily-reports/2010/october/11/doctors-issues.aspx), and based off my experiences in E.Rs there really arent enough doctors to go around (bleeding out in the hallway in stanford's emergency care for starters). Yet even with this med schools are really difficult to get into (low amount of seats high number of applicants), they're making the mcat even more lengthy under the excuse that'll enable more well-rounded students to get into med schools (that really doesn't make sense. How does being well-rounded correlate with test taking skills on a a 8 hour exam? (How about organizing more in-depth interview processes, better essay questions on the applications?), and there are so many things in med school that just seem designed to weed out students from what they want to do [board part 1 exam scores].

It really doesn't seem to make much sense at all. I understand that not everyone can become a doctor and that's necessary but putting so many obstacles in the way (many of which are totally artificial and unnecessary) just seems counter-productive and unfair. What happens to the people who want to be doctors and have all the skills necessary, but don't test well? What happens to the people that are too busy studying to have 9392349294 E.C.s when they apply to med school? Aren't we just selecting for people who can take tests better than anyone else anyway? It feels like we are just filtering people out "just because" and encouraging unnecessary competition (Unnecessary competition is probably the main reason why I didn't go to UC Berkeley as undergrad. It just ruins the atmosphere, friends, and everyone who tries really hard and does their best should be able to succeed in a positive atmosphere.)

I tried not to get too straw-mannish about this, but I'm not really getting the reasoning. It just bugs me and no I'm not trolling. This just seemed like the best place to ask. Also, there are so many "random" factors evolved in having the right scores that it's really hard to judge things like Undergraduate gpa as if it's a very valid indicator. Like in organic chemistry i had a really good instructor and thus got all A+s, yet some of my friends had the foreign professor with a thick accent, no office hours, who tested them on graduate level o-chem and did not-so-well.

You're from California. You have a 3.6 GPA and your major shadowing experience is with a cosmetic dentist. You have not taken the MCAT yet but your practice scores have been disappointing. We get it, you want the bar lowered just enough to let you slip over.

It is understandable that you would like to face fewer obstacles to fulfilling your dream (who wouldn't?), but your feeling on the matter might change if you were about to be intubated by a recent graduate of the University of Phoenix Online Medical School.

 

[mrh125]

So which is it? The admissions process is shifting towards more well-rounded people because those are the types of people who can bring something to both the school and the profession in general. Med schools are not looking for test taking automatons who have no interest in the people aspect of medicine.

The selection process is by no means perfect, but there are reasons for why schools look for certain things, i.e. people who have the time management skills to balance EC's, schoolwork, and also life. Standardized tests are not ideal, but they are the best way to compare across students that can have wildly different sets of GPAs depending on how their schools curve. The new MCAT is designed so that they aren't just selecting for people who are amazing at only the sciences, and try to capture those with more 'non-traditional' backgrounds.

You have a point about the well-rounded stuff though really it's pretty difficult to be well-rounded with the strict standardized test scores and GPA cutoffs set for the avg med school. Yea, I'm sure those people who can do it are great and deserve kudos. The new mcat thing just seems silly though. Making the exam even longer and adding on two sections that are diff from the standard physics, bio, chem stuff doesn't seem like a really good way to bring in non-traditional students. Lowering cutoffs and doing some other things to the admissions process would honestly seem like a much more rational way. The whole "let's make the mcat longer" just puts those who take it after the current mcat is gone at a disadvantage and really studying more for those two more test sections seems way more indicative of test taking skills than anything.

 

[mrh125]

You're from California. You have a 3.6 GPA and your major shadowing experience is with a cosmetic dentist. You have not taken the MCAT yet but your practice scores have been disappointing. We get it, you want the bar lowered just enough to let you slip over.

It is understandable that you would like to face fewer obstacles to fulfilling your dream (who wouldn't?), but your feeling on the matter might change if you were about to be intubated by a recent graduate of the University of Phoenix Online Medical School.

It's not just about me. Thanks for reviewing my posting history though. My undergrad science grades are awesome (what lowered my gpa aside from physics was some other filler courses that I got Bs in) and I'm improving my mcat scores slowly. If you go to any undergrad counselor they'll say a GPA like that is indicative of a good student for example, so why filter out good students based off of things that don't make much of a difference in the short-term or long-term? 91,000+ is a lot of holes to fill and cutting people off for silly reasons just seems counter-productive. Also, the whole idea of engaging non-traditional students with such strict admission requirements makes little sense. It's just more hoops to jump through.

 

[circulus vitios]

So which is it? The admissions process is shifting towards more well-rounded people because those are the types of people who can bring something to both the school and the profession in general. Med schools are not looking for test taking automatons who have no interest in the people aspect of medicine.

The selection process is by no means perfect, but there are reasons for why schools look for certain things, i.e. people who have the time management skills to balance EC's, schoolwork, and also life. Standardized tests are not ideal, but they are the best way to compare across students that can have wildly different sets of GPAs depending on how their schools curve. The new MCAT is designed so that they aren't just selecting for people who are amazing at only the sciences, and try to capture those with more 'non-traditional' backgrounds.

The shortage is also not due to the difficulty of getting into med school currently, but rather the limited number of residency slots/graduates each year.

Have you even looked at the new MCAT? It does nothing of the sort. It's just another flaming hoop to jump through.

 

[mrh125]

Have you even looked at the new MCAT? It does nothing of the sort. It's just another flaming hoop to jump through.

Seriously, this. I've even talked to some of the doctors I know about the new mcat and they said the same.

 

[Gut Shot]

It's not just about me. Thanks for reviewing my posting history though. My undergrad science grades are awesome (what lowered my gpa aside from physics was some other filler courses that I got Bs in) and I'm improving my mcat scores slowly. If you go to any undergrad counselor they'll say a GPA like that is indicative of a good student for example, so why filter out good students based off of things that don't make much of a difference in the short-term or long-term? 91,000+ is a lot of holes to fill and cutting people off for silly reasons just seems counter-productive. Also, the whole idea of engaging non-traditional students with such strict admission requirements makes little sense. It's just more hoops to jump through.

Okay, so who is going to educate and train these additional 91,000?

 

[pkwraith]

How would making it easier to get into medical school create more doctors? That trend will just create a bunch of freshly minted MDs with no residency spots, no income, and a buttload of debt.

 

[darkjedi]

You have a point about the well-rounded stuff though really it's pretty difficult to be well-rounded with the strict standardized test scores and GPA cutoffs set for the avg med school. Yea, I'm sure those people who can do it are great and deserve kudos. The new mcat thing just seems silly though. Making the exam even longer and adding on two sections that are diff from the standard physics, bio, chem stuff doesn't seem like a really good way to bring in non-traditional students. Lowering cutoffs and doing some other things to the admissions process would honestly seem like a much more rational way. The whole "let's make the mcat longer" just puts those who take it after the current mcat is gone at a disadvantage and really studying more for those two more test sections seems way more indicative of test taking skills than anything.

I suppose the point of the matter is that med schools don't have to lower cutoffs. Each med school wants to enroll the best students they can, and because there are so many pre-meds, they can afford to screen the less attractive candidates. There is already a movement underway to increase the number of med student slots, but we are coming close to the limit of residency slots available for students.

Unfortunately, training in medicine is test-taking. The MCAT will not be the last test you take, and is a joke compared to the USMLE's even with the extended sections.

 

[mrh125]

Okay, so who is going to educate and train these additional 91,000?

Each medical school could open a few more additional slots, relax admission standards/the # of hoops students have to jump through to get in to a point where the cutoffs are statistically telling. Some other medical schools could be opened. That's the best set of ideas I got atm.

 

[Spinach Dip]

Have you even looked at the new MCAT? It does nothing of the sort. It's just another flaming hoop to jump through.

Bingo.

Someone gets it.

 

[487806]

Each medical school could open a few more additional slots, relax admission standards/the # of hoops students have to jump through to get in to a point where the cutoffs are statistically telling. Some other medical schools could be opened. That's the best set of ideas I got atm.

... please don't tell me you're being serious...

 

[freakingoutabit]

Once you start increasing the number of doctors by opening more med schools and starting more residency programs, it would be nearly impossible to undo it. When the baby boomers die and there is no longer an enormous aging population, you might end up with a system that produces too many doctors for the population, and that would be disastrous.

If you have to err on one side or the other, it's better to err on the side of shortage.

 

[Spinach Dip]

Each medical school could open a few more additional slots, relax admission standards/the # of hoops students have to jump through to get in to a point where the cutoffs are statistically telling. Some other medical schools could be opened. That's the best set of ideas I got atm.

Where are these thousands going to do their residencies?

 

[mrh125]

... please don't tell me you're being serious...

Got any better ideas?

 

[muddyduck7]

Each medical school could open a few more additional slots, relax admission standards/the # of hoops students have to jump through to get in to a point where the cutoffs are statistically telling. Some other medical schools could be opened. That's the best set of ideas I got atm.

How would that affect the number of residencies? The bottleneck is not at the number of seats in medical school...

 

[Womb Raider]

~25% of female physicians work part time (compared to <10% men) = physician shortage.

Yet another wonderful reason to remove gender & race from medical school application.

.....

Seriously though... The class sizes of medical schools / residencies are not increasing proportionately with the population growth of America = shortage.

 

[mrh125]

How would that affect the number of residencies? The bottleneck is not at the number of seats in medical school...

i didn't talk about the residencies because I don't know that much about them at this moment. What could be done to the seats avail/# of residencies? Isn't it capped by something like medicare?

 

[freakingoutabit]

i didn't talk about the residencies because I don't know that much about them at this moment. What could be done to the seats avail/# of residencies? Isn't it capped by something like medicare?

http://connect.jefferson.edu/s/1399/index.aspx?sid=1399&gid=2&pgid=1077

 

[Gut Shot]

Each medical school could open a few more additional slots, relax admission standards/the # of hoops students have to jump through to get in to a point where the cutoffs are statistically telling. Some other medical schools could be opened. That's the best set of ideas I got atm.

Some of this is has been happening already, with the allopathic schools expanding enrollment, some new ones opening, and a bevy of new osteopathic offerings. And if you don't like those odds there is always Ross, St. George, AUC, or Saba, to name a few.

Of course none of this means a hill of beans until residency positions increase.

You say it isn't just about you, but I have a feeling is pretty much is.

 

[mcloaf]

Isn't it capped by something like medicare?

Yes, which is why increasing the number of seats in medical schools and making admissions easier won't help anybody. Instead of disappointed premeds you'd have a bunch of disappointed med school graduates with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt and worthless degrees.

 

[gyngyn]

Yes, which is why increasing the number of seats in medical schools and making admissions easier won't help anybody. Instead of disappointed premeds you'd have a bunch of disappointed med school graduates with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt and worthless degrees.

Agreed. We are already seeing it.

 

[loltopsy]

i didn't talk about the residencies because I don't know that much about them at this moment. What could be done to the seats avail/# of residencies? Isn't it capped by something like medicare?

So you ignore any counterpoints about residency slot limitations and just repeatedly reaffirm your previous flawed point. Great job. Live in ignorance instead of improving your knowledge base.

Use the search function and find the unending list of threads about residency slot availability, so that maybe you'll have the faintest idea of what you are talking about.

 

[mrh125]

So you ignore any counterpoints about residency slot limitations and just repeatedly reaffirm your previous flawed point. Great job. Live in ignorance instead of improving your knowledge base.

Use the search function and find the unending list of threads about residency slot availability, so that maybe you'll have the faintest idea of what you are talking about.

Live in ignorance? Oh please it's called not talking about what you aren't informed about and asking for more information. How about you use the "not troll function" or put good use to your computer's "power down" function instead of asinine trolling?

 

[loltopsy]

Live in ignorance? Oh please it's called not talking about what you aren't informed about and asking for more information. How about you use the "not troll function" or put good use to your computer's "power down" function instead of asinine trolling?

1) You clearly have no idea what trolling is.

2) This thread in a nutshell:

You: Hey let's add med school slots!
Everyone: Residency slots are limited.
You: Hey let's add med school slots!
Everyone: Residency slots are limited.
You: Hey let's add med school slots!
Everyone: Residency slots are limited.
You: I don't know what that is.

 

[mrh125]

1) You clearly have no idea what trolling is.

2) This thread in a nutshell:

You: Hey let's add med school slots!
Everyone: Residency slots are limited.
You: Hey let's add med school slots!
Everyone: Residency slots are limited.
You: Hey let's add med school slots!
Everyone: Residency slots are limited.
You: I don't know what that is.

Scroll up or just don't even bother posting.

 

[Doctor Strange]

Lol OP the problem isn't the number of medical school seats, it's the number of residency positions available. You can double the number of med school seats and you still wouldn't solve the shortage; you just end up with a bunch of MDs with nothing to do but sit around and drown in debt.

Get a clue.

 

[nealraj006]

I just read an article in JAMA discussing the application of MMIs compared to the traditional interview protocol employed at many medical schools. The correlation to clinical skills, interpersonal communication, etc. significantly improved when they switched at McMaster University, the only school in Canada using the MMI format at the time. Subsequently, 14 of the 17 Canadian medical schools adopted a similar approach to interviewing. IIRC, They placed a 30/70% weight on GPA/MMI, respectively.

Obviously you can't place all the weight on GPA and MCAT scores, but you can't discount the amount of work it takes for most people to earn these at a high level. They don't necessarily develop other aspects of character that should be present in physicians, but that should be where extracurricular activities are important.

 

[Chir0nex]

It seems like there are 2 separate issues that you want addressed; why aren't there more class slots,a nd why is the difficulty of getting in rising?

The reason there are not more class slots is (as has been said above) that increasing the number of slots will create major problems if there is not a comparable increase in the number of residency positions. Residency slots are funded based on medicare, and thus cannot be easily expanded in the same way class sizes can. The end result would be a much larger chunk of medical students who have finished school but are not able to actually match into a residency, and thus are trapped with tons of debt and no job. On top of that, you are not increasing the number of doctors to address any exisitng shortage.
Now, as you can see, expanding class sizes is not an effective solution for meeting the needs of the population, or of eager pre-meds. However, you are right in saying that there is an increasing pool of pre-med students. Unfortunately, this simply creates a situation in which schools can afford to pick the precise students they want, thus the huge emphasis placed on grades and EC's. I agree that it is incredibly frustrating that people who would probably make good doctors are rejected, but that is simply the nature of the profession, and most others. Many schools are open to non-traditional applicants, but at the same time they have a right to set whatever standards they want. If you were in their shoes, wouldn't you also prefer applicants with higher, rather than lower scores?

 

[loltopsy]

So wait, why don't they just expand medical school seats? I mean, there is an expected doctor shortage.

 

[rjosh33]

So wait, why don't they just expand medical school seats? I mean, there is an expected doctor shortage.

 

[BLADEMDA]

1. To be a doctor you need to have exceptional skill in bubbling in the correct dots on standardized exams. This skill is the most important component of a medical education bar none based on the way we evaluate students for med school then Residency. If you lack this essential skill then you will struggle throughout the early years of your career (MCAT, med school, USMLE, Board certification).

2. We don't need any more medical schools or medical schools slots because the Residency positions are capped. Residency is the rate limiting step for a medical education going forward and not medical school. Until we get an expansion of residency positions there needs to be a freeze on new med schools and creating larger first year classes in existing schools.

3. While you may want an unlimited number of med school positions available now the lack of a residency position for these students means some will never get to be a practicing Physician. Medicine is not like the legal profession; so, the rate limiting step is not the graduate school itself but the post graduate training.

 

[Gauss44]

Response to title: Medical school difficulty is making a shortage of doctors. (Nah, I really don't know.)

 

[487806]

1. To be a doctor you need to have exceptional skill in bubbling in the correct dots on standardized exams. This skill is the most important component of a medical education bar none based on the way we evaluate students for med school then Residency. If you lack this essential skill then you will struggle throughout the early years of your career (MCAT, med school, USMLE, Board certification).

2. We don't need any more medical schools or medical schools slots because the Residency positions are capped. Residency is the rate limiting step for a medical education going forward and not medical school. Until we get an expansion of residency positions there needs to be a freeze on new med schools and creating larger first year classes in existing schools.

3. While you may want an unlimited number of med school positions available now the lack of a residency position for these students means some will never get to be a practicing Physician. Medicine is not like the legal profession; so, the rate limiting step is not the graduate school itself but the post graduate training.

I never actually saw you here except in the Gas Forums... It's an honor to have you here 😱😱

 

[BLADEMDA]

I'm going to go slow here and answer the original poster's question.

1. Being a doctor is a good job, stable income and extremely low unemployment.
2. Income is above average to very very above average
3. Well respected career by most in society
4. Rewarding career as helping others is noble

Now, med schools can pick and choose amongst those who will enter this esteemed profession. Naturally, this makes the admission into med school competitive and selective.

For those that can't make the cut I recommend a Post Bac program or a Masters degree. I've met more than a few very successful physicians who didn't make it on the first round but eventually succeeded in their goal.

 

[Doctor Bob]

And of course, expanding residency slots isn't necessarily the answer either...

Part of the problem is that med students gravitate towards the subspecialty fields so those areas become more competitive; in general people also want to live in the bigger cities so residencies in those areas become more competitive. You have to find a way to convince people that being a cardiologist in Boston isn't nearly as exciting and fulfilling as being a family practice doctor in Wyoming. But good luck with that one.

And sometimes "more doctors" isn't the answer. Emergency departments aren't slow and overcrowded because there aren't enough doctors working in the back... there are lots of other factors at play (usually bed availability upstairs, transport of patients to and from ancillary testing, administrative paperwork, etc). Adding more doctors won't get people seen any faster... you'll just have a bunch of bored doctors in the back.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I never actually saw you here except in the Gas Forums... It's an honor to have you here 😱😱

The honor is mine. I'm always available via PM. If a thread opens up where my posts can be helpful just let me know. Good luck to you all and don't give up. Anyone with average intelligence can be an outstanding physician. The problem is you must jump through all the hoops and bubble in the correct answers. This makes the road tough for some but not insurmountable.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Residency slots in selective fields should not be expanded. I do see a need for Family Practice residency slots to expand some but not much. Our government is broke so any expansion will be limited.

As such, med schools (MD and DO) are near maximum for the number of students they should be graduating each year. These students need a residency in something to practice medicine. Hence, I hope that med school expansion is now over but I bet the numbers will keep increasing slightly every year. Again, a med school education without residency just means you need to keep applying For one year after year or find another profession. Med students without a residency will need to drive a cab or serve fast food or go to law school. Thus, a med school which costs a student $300,000 plus more in interest has an obligation to that student to one day be a practicing doctor.

If we expand medical school slots beyond those scheduled for 2017 then some med students will pass all of their exams and graduate school without a Residency position to become a practicing physician.

 

[BLADEMDA]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=969701

This thread is worth a quick read.

 

[notbobtrustme]

I'm really confused. There's an expected doctor shortage of 91,250 doctors by 2020 (http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/daily-reports/2010/october/11/doctors-issues.aspx), and based off my experiences in E.Rs there really arent enough doctors to go around (bleeding out in the hallway in stanford's emergency care for starters). Yet even with this med schools are really difficult to get into (low amount of seats high number of applicants), they're making the mcat even more lengthy under the excuse that'll enable more well-rounded students to get into med schools (that really doesn't make sense. How does being well-rounded correlate with test taking skills on a a 8 hour exam? (How about organizing more in-depth interview processes, better essay questions on the applications?), and there are so many things in med school that just seem designed to weed out students from what they want to do [board part 1 exam scores].

It really doesn't seem to make much sense at all. I understand that not everyone can become a doctor and that's necessary but putting so many obstacles in the way (many of which are totally artificial and unnecessary) just seems counter-productive and unfair. What happens to the people who want to be doctors and have all the skills necessary, but don't test well? What happens to the people that are too busy studying to have 9392349294 E.C.s when they apply to med school? Aren't we just selecting for people who can take tests better than anyone else anyway? It feels like we are just filtering people out "just because" and encouraging unnecessary competition (Unnecessary competition is probably the main reason why I didn't go to UC Berkeley as undergrad. It just ruins the atmosphere, friends, and everyone who tries really hard and does their best should be able to succeed in a positive atmosphere.)

I tried not to get too straw-mannish about this, but I'm not really getting the reasoning. It just bugs me and no I'm not trolling. This just seemed like the best place to ask. Also, there are so many "random" factors evolved in having the right scores that it's really hard to judge things like Undergraduate gpa as if it's a very valid indicator. Like in organic chemistry i had a really good instructor and thus got all A+s, yet some of my friends had the foreign professor with a thick accent, no office hours, who tested them on graduate level o-chem and did not-so-well.

It's not that hard to understand. There's only so many spots. There are more applicants than positions. Ergo, competitiveness goes up because it's a buyer's market, not a seller's market and you ain't buying.

 

[487806]

The honor is mine. I'm always available via PM. If a thread opens up where my posts can be helpful just let me know. Good luck to you all and don't give up. Anyone with average intelligence can be an outstanding physician. The problem is you must jump through all the hoops and bubble in the correct answers. This makes the road tough for some but not insurmountable.

Thanks for the encouraging words. Though sorry for surprising you with that post. I lurk in the physician/resident forums and it's an entirely different world there, but nonetheless I have a very deep respect and admiration for all the attendings and residents to actually be on SDN despite a very hectic workday. And it's rare to see you guys on preallo, being the subforum notorious for misinformation and all

And thanks for the cited sources as always 😉

 

[freakingoutabit]

OP, you might find this article interesting: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323393804578555741780608174.html

There are a lot of proposed solutions for the doctor shortage, and as a few other posters have argued, not everyone agrees that it should be solved by creating more doctors.