If US dollar collapses...then what?

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http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200509090003

The full quote:

"When you are rioting for these tickets, or these ATM cards, the second thing that came to mind was -- and this is horrible to say, and I wonder if I'm alone in this -- you know it took me about a year to start hating the 9-11 victims' families? Took me about a year. And I had such compassion for them, and I really wanted to help them, and I was behind, you know, "Let's give them money, let's get this started." All of this stuff. And I really didn't -- of the 3,000 victims' families, I don't hate all of them. Probably about 10 of them. And when I see a 9-11 victim family on television, or whatever, I'm just like, "Oh shut up!" I'm so sick of them because they're always complaining. And we did our best for them. And, again, it's only about 10. "


Hooray out of context quotes! Quite clearly, he is complaining about a minority of people who ruin charitable sentiments of donors. But if one hates Glenn Beck that much, one will see only what he wants to see and carefully pick and choose the ugliest, most inciteful phrases.

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In regards to the above post, I think that the word "hate" has been grossly misused in today's society. Its such a strong word that was used only to express the deepest dislike and passionate distaste for something a while ago... Now, the meaning of the word is diminished because it is used so much. Still, I think it is wrong to "hate" someone because they are victimized by this event. It shows a real lack of character and Glenn Beck is pretty much throwing out the most outrageous stuff to reel people in. Its turning into one of those early-20th century travelling freak shows.
 
In regards to the above post, I think that the word "hate" has been grossly misused in today's society. Its such a strong word that was used only to express the deepest dislike and passionate distaste for something a while ago... Now, the meaning of the word is diminished because it is used so much. Still, I think it is wrong to "hate" someone because they are victimized by this event. It shows a real lack of character and Glenn Beck is pretty much throwing out the most outrageous stuff to reel people in. Its turning into one of those early-20th century travelling freak shows.

Cry me a frickin river. I get " I HATE the dentist" every day. Put on some big boy pants, part of the problem today is the fact everything has to be politically correct or sugar coated.
 
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Sigh...why do people automatically go to extremes? Are we socialist because we have Medicare? Are we socialist because we have universal schooling? Maybe we should get rid of those too?

We are the last and only wealthy country who does not have universal health care. This is not an experiment, we are in fact way behind the curve.

If we are so behind the curve, why is the the quality so much better here than around the world? Socialism is trading quality for quantity. Bottom line.
There will not be the same interest for the quality students to go into medicine because of this.
 
perhaps the fault lies in how it was reformed..

i think the points you're trying to make are very narrow minded.

many countries in western europe have post-secondary systems that are almost free. most of the schools in canada are also heavily supported by the government.

they all have good education systems.

stop trying to incite fear. you almost sound like glenn beck


The problem is not if public education is free.
the problem is the system is geared towards Administrators and Teachers compensation, NOT the childrens wellfare.

The Unions are the pests. They create all the problems.

Teachers are not the problem: Great teachers are undercompensated. Bad teachers including child molestors are overcompensated and kept in school because they can't be fired due to union rules (they can be fired but almost impossible and takes even more money to fire them). It costs NYC taxpayers over $20M per yr just to keep dangerous teachers out of classrooms and put them in "rubberrooms" becaue they can't be fired due to union rules.

To fix the entire govt is tough and will cost political capital because you'll have to disband all govt unions.
 
If the economy crashed, then yes it would be safe to say a career in medicine would be safer than dentistry. We already have a huge shortage of primary care physicians, and the shortage will increase with universal healthcare coverage.

Do you realize that if the economy crashed like the OP described, the dollar would be a worthless piece of paper? So medicine would be no better off than dentistry or any other profession.

However, there always will be demand for dentistry, but instead of being payed with dollars you will by paid with chickens or goats :D
 
Do you realize that if the economy crashed like the OP described, the dollar would be a worthless piece of paper? So medicine would be no better off than dentistry or any other profession.

However, there always will be demand for dentistry, but instead of being payed with dollars you will by paid with chickens or goats :D


I don't mind getting paid with a nanny goat for a 3 unit bridge :D

But I sure hope I can pay Henry Schein or Patterson with eggs for my dental supplie :D
 
One day its social security, then it's our educational system, then healthcare. You know, why can't we just let the government run everything since it's so great? Because that would make us communists. Communism = Socialism by incrementalism.

I repeat, why take arguments to the nth degree? Why does it have to be about communism - why can't it just be about keeping as many Americans as possible healthy? The system we have now isn't working.

If we are so behind the curve, why is the the quality so much better here than around the world?

Your source? Here's mine. We should be doing way better than #36. World Health Organization's ranking
 
yes indeed..

best healthcare in the world for the rich

lol

Do you think these socialized countries offer the highest quality to the entire government entitled population? Of course not. Its too expensive. Sure, everyone gets their government insurance, but at the expense of the quality. Bottom line in the US, it may require more income to get the highest level of care, but atleast its available and YOU HAVE THE CHOICE. I dont want the government to tell me how to insure myself, and what my insurance will allow me to do. Why do you think many of the "rich" (which you obviously have a problem with) come here to get treated?

Im sure some day when you are RICH you'll have no problem giving 60-70% of your income (if not more) back to the federal government to fund all of the entitlements (which for some reason this congress decided they didnt want to participate with ). I wonder why?
 
Do you think these socialized countries offer the highest quality to the entire government entitled population? Of course not. Its too expensive. Sure, everyone gets their government insurance, but at the expense of the quality. Bottom line in the US, it may require more income to get the highest level of care, but atleast its available and YOU HAVE THE CHOICE. I dont want the government to tell me how to insure myself, and what my insurance will allow me to do. Why do you think many of the "rich" (which you obviously have a problem with) come here to get treated?

Im sure some day when you are RICH you'll have no problem giving 60-70% of your income (if not more) back to the federal government to fund all of the entitlements (which for some reason this congress decided they didnt want to participate with ). I wonder why?

never argued that the US doesn't have the best quality but that's only for those who can afford it.
I don't see why you think i have a problem with the rich. they obviously worked hard to earn their money (maybe not bankers).
the only problem is accessibility. not much of a choice when it's not affordable. . the US might have the best technology in the world but overall quality is not that great compared to other nations.

do you really believe that dentists in "socialist" countries like Western europe and Canada have low incomes? i'm sure their income is comparable to dentists in the US.

and no, they don't pay 70+% of their income as tax....

the only problem i have with your statements is that you keep saying government intervention equals big communist hell.
I guess every other Western nations except the US would be considered communist in your eyes?

i'm done arguing with people who worship glenn beck...
 
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never argued that the US doesn't have the best quality but that's only for those who can afford it.
I don't see why you think i have a problem with the rich. they obviously worked hard to earn their money (maybe not bankers).
the only problem is accessibility. not much of a choice when it's not affordable. . the US might have the best technology in the world but overall quality is not that great compared to other nations.

do you really believe that dentists in "socialist" countries like Western europe and Canada have low incomes? i'm sure their income is comparable to dentists in the US.

and no, they don't pay 70+% of their income as tax....

the only problem i have with your statements is that you keep saying government intervention equals big communist hell.
I guess every other Western nations except the US would be considered communist in your eyes?

i'm done arguing with people who worship glenn beck...





Germany: Personal Income tax 0-50% VAT 19%
France: Personal Income Tax 0-50% VAT 19%
United Kingdom: 0-50% GST 15%

ANd taxes just go up. Now, doesnt socialization and entitlements sound like a great idea? DO you want to work Monday through Wed for uncle sam before you pay yourself?


And by the way, although "average salaries" are taken with a grain of salt, the apparent average dentist in france makes about 100k/year. I dont know why the hell any of you would argue for the western European system of living.


The Glenn Beck comment is a cop-out.
 
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Right. And FEMA is setting up concentration camps.

Whatever. Glenn Beck would be a blessed subtraction.
 
Right. And FEMA is setting up concentration camps.

Whatever. Glenn Beck would be a blessed subtraction.


Poor Herman duped by the drive by media/media matters people. Glenn Beck never believed in the camps.

Again, if one is a prejudiced hater, one will believe whatever out of context quotes other haters spew out.

Tuesday, April 07, 2009
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,513024,00.html -debunking the conspiracy theory

"So we set out to get the truth. And quite honestly, I don't believe that there are FEMA concentration camps. I think that sounds kind of nuts. But if there are, I'll show them to you. If there aren't, I'll show that to you."

"Well, predictably, the media started claiming that somehow or another I believed in these conspiracy theories even though I said on the air a million times I don't and I've said that for years."
 
lol fox news


I dont think there was one mention of anything Fox in my posts. But this is the bull**** pointless type of response. I post actual tax information, actual factual info about a ****ty health care poll, and I get crap about how much kooks Fox news and Glenn Beck are. Go watch your Olbermann and Chris Matthews and get that tingle up your leg. Have you ever watched the workings of a VA hospital or medicaid dental clinic? Thats socialized health care.
 
I dont think there was one mention of anything Fox in my posts. But this is the bull**** pointless type of response. I post actual tax information, actual factual info about a ****ty health care poll, and I get crap about how much kooks Fox news and Glenn Beck are. Go watch your Olbermann and Chris Matthews and get that tingle up your leg. Have you ever watched the workings of a VA hospital or medicaid dental clinic? Thats socialized health care.

take it down a notch turbo. this thread has run it's course! :beat:
 
I dont think there was one mention of anything Fox in my posts. But this is the bull**** pointless type of response. I post actual tax information, actual factual info about a ****ty health care poll, and I get crap about how much kooks Fox news and Glenn Beck are. Go watch your Olbermann and Chris Matthews and get that tingle up your leg. Have you ever watched the workings of a VA hospital or medicaid dental clinic? Thats socialized health care.

i just said lol fox news. I couldn't pick the three people you named out of a lineup. I don't watch any of that crap. My roommate worships fox news and i lol every time i see him watching it.
 
never argued that the US doesn't have the best quality but that's only for those who can afford it.
I don't see why you think i have a problem with the rich. they obviously worked hard to earn their money (maybe not bankers).
the only problem is accessibility. not much of a choice when it's not affordable. . the US might have the best technology in the world but overall quality is not that great compared to other nations.

do you really believe that dentists in "socialist" countries like Western europe and Canada have low incomes? i'm sure their income is comparable to dentists in the US.

and no, they don't pay 70+% of their income as tax....

the only problem i have with your statements is that you keep saying government intervention equals big communist hell.
I guess every other Western nations except the US would be considered communist in your eyes?

i'm done arguing with people who worship glenn beck...

The problem with progressive thinking is that it is often lacking in logical or rational reasoning. Instead it tends to be more emotionally driven thought. The right often comes acrossed as lacking in empathy and being more selfcentered and selfish. What we need is a mixture rational and logical thinking tempered with empathy and compassion. The fact is, that humans are by nature a bit selfish and self-centered, but you cant make everything better for everyone through big governemnt.
Any good economics book or course will teach you that decisions on utilizing resources are best made by those who derive the most utility from the expediture of that resource. The fact is, that for most things, the individual is a much better decision maker for spending his/her own resources then the government could ever be. A relatively small group of people can never make Macro decisions that will be as efficient as the millions of individual decisions that would otherwise comprise the sum total of the Macroeconomic decison made by the government (with exception to certain things like national defense). The results of governmet decisons that should be made by individuals will often result in inefficiency (read waste and lost productivity) on a massive scale. Furthermore, in economic terms, seperating the utilizer of a resource from the producer of the resource in its most basic form is similar to a burglar breaking into my house and stealing my valuables. The burglar wants to use as much of the resources as they can. The behavior, if successful and unpunished will usually lead to more of such behavior. The problem with the socialist concept is that it does precisely what my little analogy tries to teach. The resulting disassociation between the producers of a resource and the untilizers of a resource require some governing party to manage the resources utilized and how they are used. Enter big government. This process is not efficient and never can be. In fact, a cycle is created in which programs get bigger, and governemnt in turn gets bigger in order to manage it. Then more government is created to make sure that the government is fairly and adequately managing the programs. Inefficiency is the main enemy here. The waste, and lost productivity tend to build up like amyloid in Alzheimers disease. The system will ultimatley break down. The best decisions makers for utilization of resources are those who derive the most utility from it, but we have to find a way of coupling the utilizers with the producers in an efficient manner, and that is usually most simply by letting the producer and the utilizer be the same entity. In some instances such as national defense and large infrastructure projects pooling of resources is necessary. Anyhow, we are left with the problem of those who are at a disadvantage regarding access to resources. In a perfect world, everyone would be selfless, kind, and compassionate. In such a world the producers of resources would make individual decisions to spend resources to help the disadvantaged and the system would be in equilibrium. This is the answer but is not realistic due to the aforementioned selfcentered/selfish human nature. However, forcing charitable giving (social programs) through massive government programs is not the answer and will not work in the long run. The decisions being made by the government seem to fail in understanding the very basic human behaviors and economic principals that will determine the ultimate success or failure of their programs as well as this country.
 
The problem with progressive thinking is that it is often lacking in logical or rational reasoning. Instead it tends to be more emotionally driven thought. The right often comes acrossed as lacking in empathy and being more selfcentered and selfish. What we need is a mixture rational and logical thinking tempered with empathy and compassion. The fact is, that humans are by nature a bit selfish and self-centered, but you cant make everything better for everyone through big governemnt.
Any good economics book or course will teach you that decisions on utilizing resources are best made by those who derive the most utility from the expediture of that resource. The fact is, that for most things, the individual is a much better decision maker for spending his/her own resources then the government could ever be. A relatively small group of people can never make Macro decisions that will be as efficient as the millions of individual decisions that would otherwise comprise the sum total of the Macroeconomic decison made by the government (with exception to certain things like national defense). The results of governmet decisons that should be made by individuals will often result in inefficiency (read waste and lost productivity) on a massive scale. Furthermore, in economic terms, seperating the utilizer of a resource from the producer of the resource in its most basic form is similar to a burglar breaking into my house and stealing my valuables. The burglar wants to use as much of the resources as they can. The behavior, if successful and unpunished will usually lead to more of such behavior. The problem with the socialist concept is that it does precisely what my little analogy tries to teach. The resulting disassociation between the producers of a resource and the untilizers of a resource require some governing party to manage the resources utilized and how they are used. Enter big government. This process is not efficient and never can be. In fact, a cycle is created in which programs get bigger, and governemnt in turn gets bigger in order to manage it. Then more government is created to make sure that the government is fairly and adequately managing the programs. Inefficiency is the main enemy here. The waste, and lost productivity tend to build up like amyloid in Alzheimers disease. The system will ultimatley break down. The best decisions makers for utilization of resources are those who derive the most utility from it, but we have to find a way of coupling the utilizers with the producers in an efficient manner, and that is usually most simply by letting the producer and the utilizer be the same entity. In some instances such as national defense and large infrastructure projects pooling of resources is necessary. Anyhow, we are left with the problem of those who are at a disadvantage regarding access to resources. In a perfect world, everyone would be selfless, kind, and compassionate. In such a world the producers of resources would make individual decisions to spend resources to help the disadvantaged and the system would be in equilibrium. This is the answer but is not realistic due to the aforementioned selfcentered/selfish human nature. However, forcing charitable giving (social programs) through massive government programs is not the answer and will not work in the long run. The decisions being made by the government seem to fail in understanding the very basic human behaviors and economic principals that will determine the ultimate success or failure of their programs as well as this country.

well said :thumbup:
 
The problem with progressive thinking is that it is often lacking in logical or rational reasoning. Instead it tends to be more emotionally driven thought. The right often comes acrossed as lacking in empathy and being more selfcentered and selfish. What we need is a mixture rational and logical thinking tempered with empathy and compassion. The fact is, that humans are by nature a bit selfish and self-centered, but you cant make everything better for everyone through big governemnt.
Any good economics book or course will teach you that decisions on utilizing resources are best made by those who derive the most utility from the expediture of that resource. The fact is, that for most things, the individual is a much better decision maker for spending his/her own resources then the government could ever be. A relatively small group of people can never make Macro decisions that will be as efficient as the millions of individual decisions that would otherwise comprise the sum total of the Macroeconomic decison made by the government (with exception to certain things like national defense). The results of governmet decisons that should be made by individuals will often result in inefficiency (read waste and lost productivity) on a massive scale. Furthermore, in economic terms, seperating the utilizer of a resource from the producer of the resource in its most basic form is similar to a burglar breaking into my house and stealing my valuables. The burglar wants to use as much of the resources as they can. The behavior, if successful and unpunished will usually lead to more of such behavior. The problem with the socialist concept is that it does precisely what my little analogy tries to teach. The resulting disassociation between the producers of a resource and the untilizers of a resource require some governing party to manage the resources utilized and how they are used. Enter big government. This process is not efficient and never can be. In fact, a cycle is created in which programs get bigger, and governemnt in turn gets bigger in order to manage it. Then more government is created to make sure that the government is fairly and adequately managing the programs. Inefficiency is the main enemy here. The waste, and lost productivity tend to build up like amyloid in Alzheimers disease. The system will ultimatley break down. The best decisions makers for utilization of resources are those who derive the most utility from it, but we have to find a way of coupling the utilizers with the producers in an efficient manner, and that is usually most simply by letting the producer and the utilizer be the same entity. In some instances such as national defense and large infrastructure projects pooling of resources is necessary. Anyhow, we are left with the problem of those who are at a disadvantage regarding access to resources. In a perfect world, everyone would be selfless, kind, and compassionate. In such a world the producers of resources would make individual decisions to spend resources to help the disadvantaged and the system would be in equilibrium. This is the answer but is not realistic due to the aforementioned selfcentered/selfish human nature. However, forcing charitable giving (social programs) through massive government programs is not the answer and will not work in the long run. The decisions being made by the government seem to fail in understanding the very basic human behaviors and economic principals that will determine the ultimate success or failure of their programs as well as this country.

I agree 100%

It seems like most people arguing for entitlement programs have no understanding of economics, and base their arguments mostly on emotions.
It's ironic, but history has shown that over time these kind of social programs and governments do the opposite of what they intend to do.

Think about it, just because the government says its "for the people" doesn't mean in is so. How ironic is it that everything was "for the people" in Cuba and the former Soviet Union. People really need to see through this kind of propaganda.

I would highly recommend reading a book called Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell to get a good understanding on what is going on.
 
if america fails, then the whole world will be in recession. we'll all be poor, no matter where you move. :p

not true at all....

TBH, the world will more than likely THRIVE if america fails....

we're almost at the point of not, IF but WHEN the dollar collapses... w/o changes to our current monetary policies, it will not last.
 
I dont think there was one mention of anything Fox in my posts. But this is the bull**** pointless type of response. I post actual tax information, actual factual info about a ****ty health care poll, and I get crap about how much kooks Fox news and Glenn Beck are. Go watch your Olbermann and Chris Matthews and get that tingle up your leg. Have you ever watched the workings of a VA hospital or medicaid dental clinic? Thats socialized health care.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
Germany: Personal Income tax 0-50% VAT 19%
France: Personal Income Tax 0-50% VAT 19%
United Kingdom: 0-50% GST 15%

ANd taxes just go up. Now, doesnt socialization and entitlements sound like a great idea? DO you want to work Monday through Wed for uncle sam before you pay yourself?


And by the way, although "average salaries" are taken with a grain of salt, the apparent average dentist in france makes about 100k/year. I dont know why the hell any of you would argue for the western European system of living.


The Glenn Beck comment is a cop-out.

Question, was that 100k USD or 100 EU? B/c the euro is almost ~1.4 to the USD right now, so that average salary might look a little different based on which currency it's in.
 
Question, was that 100k USD or 100 EU? B/c the euro is almost ~1.4 to the USD right now, so that average salary might look a little different based on which currency it's in.


In dollars not Euros.
 
not true at all....

TBH, the world will more than likely THRIVE if america fails....

we're almost at the point of not, IF but WHEN the dollar collapses... w/o changes to our current monetary policies, it will not last.

how is that possible?

america accounts for a good portion of the world's economy.

if america fails, trade will crash and there will be a domino effect.

also, the US dollar is still the main currency that commodities are traded in.

it's going to be major chaos when the dollar fails. no one in their right mind should want the dollar to fail
 
Not to worry. Our fearless leader will be right there to apologize.

and it's horrible to apologize right! because America is NEVER WRONG! *insert toby keith song* :laugh: he should learn to dodge personal responsibility like some of the professionals that fester among the threads on SDN.
 
how is that possible?

america accounts for a good portion of the world's economy.

if america fails, trade will crash and there will be a domino effect.

also, the US dollar is still the main currency that commodities are traded in.

it's going to be major chaos when the dollar fails. no one in their right mind should want the dollar to fail

It is now. But a time is coming soon maybe within a generation (~20yrs) when the rest of Asia will be the largest economy in the world and America will then have to play ball.
Don't think we're invincible we may be now but not forever.
 
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