If you are planning on kids during med school

[militarymd]

Maybe the real reason so many men want their wives at home for a few years is because their egos can't stand the idea of their wife being more successful than they are.

Now, you're overthinking it. Men are simple creatures. We don't scheme about how to oppress women.

Men like to take the shortest path between 2 points.

Here is how a man thinks:

Which is better? breast milk or formula? Research would indicate breast milk....a man would then say we should give breast milk to the child.

Next question: Which is easier? Placing the child's mouth on a nipple that produces milk or carry a pump around, interrupt a day's work, find a private area, pump the milk, store in the freezer, then defrost to the proper temperature when the child is hungry. uuummmm....Placing the child's mouth on a nipple with milk seems easier....a man would say do that then.

That is the essense of a man.....and there seems to be plenty of women who like that....and then there are some women who like to complicate things and call us bad names.

It has nothing to do with ego....just how to minimize hassle....what's wrong with that?

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[pathdr2b]

Next question: Which is easier? Placing the child's mouth on a nipple that produces milk or carry a pump around, interrupt a day's work, find a private area, pump the milk, store in the freezer, then defrost to the proper temperature when the child is hungry. uuummmm....Placing the child's mouth on a nipple with milk seems easier....a man would say do that then.

Please do me a favor. Have your wife/girlfriend pull on your nipple as hard as she can with a pair of plyers. Now that's what it feels like to breast feed a child for about the first 2 months.

You know it's real easy for men to tell women what they should and shouldn't do with their breast. I guess you're also one of those men that believes in "natural" child birth too!

 

[curlycity]

Not true. Choice number 3 is to give the baby up for adoption. A much better alternative to abortion in most cases(lets not have the choice vs. life argument), and to being a single parent in some cases.

Just want to point out, adoption isn't always an appealing option. I was looking into this to help out a family member, and found out a large, popular agency 1) only gives babies to families of the 'right' Christian religion, and 2) charges $20K. EXCEPT - the big problem's coming up - if you were willing to adopt a black baby, they would waive the fee and actually pay some of your expenses. So basically they can't even give away their black babies. And I found dozens of disabled/special needs/sick children languishing in foster care on the state web site - no one is adopting them. Very sad. I know there are a lot of people willing to adopt 'certain' babies, but there are still so many unwanted children out there ...

 

[thewzdoc]

I guess you're also one of those men that believes in "natural" child birth too!

This is left to my wife......I gathered facts for her but the decision was all hers....like I had a choice even if I thought I deserved one??

 

[mellantro]

excellent post, zeebs. too bad i had to skim through all the trash on this thread to get to it . best of luck, and do keep us updated!

 

[KatieJune]

I'm wondering if anyone ever takes a year off between finishing school and residency to have a child? Does this basically kill your career? Is it impossible to get into a residency program if you do this? Anyone tried? Thanks

 

[KatieJune]

One more thing. A few years ago, I knew someone who was doing her residency in surgery and carried her baby around with her. This sounds impossible to me and I completely can't imagine how it would work, but has anyone ever heard of anything like that?

 

[learss]

Personally, I would not marry a woman who did not have a strong maternal instinct (the desire to have children, care for them, stay at home with them, etc.) and willing to put her career on hold for her children. I have no problem with women having a thriving career but not at the expense of their small child (util maybe 4 or 5 yrs old). My wife and I have discussed this alot and she really wants to stay at home but we are worried about financial situation. when the desire is strong enough people will find a way to make a situation work, even if it means only part-time or from home etc.

Are you kidding me? What does strong maternal instinct has to do with wanting both a successful career and a family? Why can't you and your wife share in the responsibilities of staying at home with your children? Are you not taking care of the children at all, because that is what it sounds like. Why is the burden of raising the children always placed on the mother? I could have sworn to takes two to make a baby.

 

[Xandie]

..
"I plan to get pregnant during my (whatever)th year, so I can (insert good plan here)."...

Great post, zeebs, and I completely agree.

I grew up with divorced parents, both of whom worked full time, and am fine. My mother even took in eight foster kids over the years, and I'm still fine. My father remarried twice, giving me six more siblings and putting me through a grand total of three divorces, and I'm (you guessed it) still fine.
My point is that children can adapt to whatever circumstances they are given. I wouldn't change my crazy upbringing (anyone tried to eat dinner every night with nine other people?) for the world.

Finally, I want to put in a plug for foster care/adoption: they are both difficult but rewarding, and worth every moment.

 

[medic170]

Great post, zeebs, and I completely agree.

I grew up with divorced parents, both of whom worked full time, and am fine. My mother even took in eight foster kids over the years, and I'm still fine. My father remarried twice, giving me six more siblings and putting me through a grand total of three divorces, and I'm (you guessed it) still fine.
My point is that children can adapt to whatever circumstances they are given. I wouldn't change my crazy upbringing (anyone tried to eat dinner every night with nine other people?) for the world.

Finally, I want to put in a plug for foster care/adoption: they are both difficult but rewarding, and worth every moment.

There are folks out there that smoked a pack a day for 65 years and are fine, no CA, no COPD, no CAD, they are "fine", might even outlive the healthiest olympic athlete. However, that does not mean that smoking isn't linked to CA, COPD, and CAD, among other things. My point is obvious I think.

 

[Xandie]

My point is obvious I think.

It is indeed. My parents didn't plan to get divorced, but their divorce didn't doom me to a sad, pathetic, horrible life either. Blanket statements (irony noted) will not apply to every situation.
I wasn't suggesting that everyone SHOULD be a single parent. But those who are, for whatever reason, aren't destroying their children's lives.

 

[medic170]

I wasn't suggesting that everyone SHOULD be a single parent. But those who are, for whatever reason, aren't destroying their children's lives.

That is a blanket statement. Did you mean that they "may not be destroying their children's lives"? Also, I never implied that it destroys their lives, but that it has a detrimental effect. In general, children are better off if they have a mommy and a daddy, and even better if mommy stays home for the first few years...exceptions do apply. I don't think one is destroying their childs life by being single or choosing not to stay home, but I think the child is better off if mom is home. Its all about choices, people take having children so lightly, yet cherish it as a fundamental right. Well, the children have rights too. They have a right to a mommy and a daddy, and a stable home. Take more time selecting your mate so you won't have to get a divorce, make better choices, be less selfish, excercise patience, live within your means. I think that these are all things that many parents fail to do. Exceptions and mistakes do happen, and that does not doom the kid to failure, but I just wish people would start putting more emphasis on families and values and less emphasis on me, mine, and the almighty dollar. Agree or disagree, thats your right and I respect your opinion.

 

[militarymd]

Please do me a favor. Have your wife/girlfriend pull on your nipple as hard as she can with a pair of plyers. Now that's what it feels like to breast feed a child for about the first 2 months.

You know it's real easy for men to tell women what they should and shouldn't do with their breast. I guess you're also one of those men that believes in "natural" child birth too!

I make a few observations....stated a few facts....tried to be funny....and what do I get?

HOSTILITY!!!! I find that I usually get hostility from people who know deep down they are not doing/wanting reasonable things.

 

[militarymd]

But this one is very interesting...what do you mean by "women allow certain behaviors"...what behaviors would these be? please elaborate because I don't think I would be lumped into this category..

men should def help out more..even if it's just a little bit!

Now remember, I'm speaking in generalities, ok? ....exceptions are everywhere.

Men would help more if they knew that they had to. Just about any guy...assuming they don't have a hump and bad BO... with a MD can find a woman who is willing to stay home and take care of them....whereas it is much more difficult for a woman with a MD to find a man to do the same thing.

Why is that? Well, because women (in general) allow it. Women are happy to find someone who is a good provider and take care of their home and children.

Because there are plenty of women willing to do this, those of you who want something different will always fight a uphill battle.

So why is it a uphill battle? This comes back to a man's nature....path of least resistance...why make things complicated when it can be simple....once again...generalities....lots of exceptions, but men like to keep things simple....baby mouth straight to nipple vs. take time out from work, find private place, pump milk into storage container, warm milk up to appropriate temperature when baby hungry, put milke in proper container, feed baby...

 

[gioia]

For those of you women still reading and perhaps deciding about what to do regarding raising a family:

I took time off between my undergrad and med school and, in retrospect, was the best academic decision I have made. It 'worked' out that way in part because my son was a surprise and in part because my husband and I were ready for the surprise. I did freelance work, continued student research and spent precious time w/ the most amazing creature I have ever known.

Many young women put off having children 'until the time is right' or they are older. It works for some and backfires for others; not everyone can get pregnant or have the stamina for children when they are older.

My son's pediatrician cannot conceive. She would make the best mother in world and is trying everything.



Life is complex, especially so for women.

 

[thoughtsmeander]

i recently read a compilation of essays called "this side of doctoring" by eliza lo chin. There is an entire section devoted to female physicians who had children during residency or medschool, and the sacrifices they had to make. Its really interesting. The basic gist was....most of the women would gladly sacrifice their careers to spend more time with their families.

 

[jennie 21]

That is a blanket statement. Did you mean that they "may not be destroying their children's lives"? Also, I never implied that it destroys their lives, but that it has a detrimental effect. In general, children are better off if they have a mommy and a daddy, and even better if mommy stays home for the first few years...exceptions do apply. I don't think one is destroying their childs life by being single or choosing not to stay home, but I think the child is better off if mom is home. Its all about choices, people take having children so lightly, yet cherish it as a fundamental right. Well, the children have rights too. They have a right to a mommy and a daddy, and a stable home. Take more time selecting your mate so you won't have to get a divorce, make better choices, be less selfish, excercise patience, live within your means. I think that these are all things that many parents fail to do. Exceptions and mistakes do happen, and that does not doom the kid to failure, but I just wish people would start putting more emphasis on families and values and less emphasis on me, mine, and the almighty dollar. Agree or disagree, thats your right and I respect your opinion.

Oh for God's sake. I happen to AGREE with most of what you're saying to a certain extent but the way you're saying it is so simplistic and wrong. Not every two-parent home is a happy home. Not every stay-at-home mom is a good mom. Just following the "rules" as layed out by other people (e.g. having a child with two parents and a mom who stays home) is not going to guarantee a happy and well-adjusted child just as not following the rules doesn't mean they won't be. There are plenty of two-parent households where the parents have a miserable marriage and make each other and the kids miserable, and there are plenty of women who aren't cut out to be a stay-at-home mom and would damage their kids if they tried. Better to work and be happy and be available to and responsive to your kid when you are around than to stay at home and be depressed and miserable and irritable. Staying at home is a good choice for a lot of women (who are lucky enough to have a supportive husband and be able to afford it) but it's not the best choice for everyone. Likewise, better to have a happy single parent than two parents who are in a miserable marriage. In an ideal world, every child would have two happily married parents and a parent (or both parents) staying home with them most of the time when they're little. But we don't live in an ideal world, and kids aren't necessarily better off with a stay-at-home mom than with a working or single mom. There are so many other factors that go into that equation that it's impossible to generalize. As a rule yeah, two married parents and one who's around most of the time is probably better for the kids. But there are so many exceptions to the rule that it doesn't make sense to judge other people's choices.

 

[pathdr2b]

very interesting. i can't believe this is coming from a man. but it's also very discouraging so what are us girls to do?

Marry a man who's Mama works outside the home, and that can accept you for who YOU are!! It's really not as diffuclt as one might think

 

[pathdr2b]

I make a few observations....stated a few facts....tried to be funny....and what do I get?

HOSTILITY!!!! I find that I usually get hostility from people who know deep down they are not doing/wanting reasonable things.

Common, man you know I didn't mean any hostility. Unless only men are allowed to display a sacrastic sense of humor

BTW, how did the nipple thing work last night?

 

[dsblaha]

Are you kidding me? What does strong maternal instinct has to do with wanting both a successful career and a family? Why can't you and your wife share in the responsibilities of staying at home with your children? Are you not taking care of the children at all, because that is what it sounds like. Why is the burden of raising the children always placed on the mother? I could have sworn to takes two to make a baby.

Settle down! You are making wild leaps in interpreting what I am saying. (Although I understand, you don't have a Y chromosome!)

I plan to be very involved with my children, as much as possible with balancing school and being a dad. I have no problem getting kids ready for school, feeding them, brushing hair, etc. I am saying I want a wife who is willing to do this. Considering the amount of attention kids need more of these duties will be placed on my wife because of the nature of my work.

The burden of raising children is placed on women because they are the ones who bear them. It has been this way for thousands of years and cannot instantly change. Additionally, women instinctively desire to do this, it is not a bad thing.

 

[zeebs]

Nice info lorelie, thanks, appreciate it.

Here's a link to a publication called "Fact and fantasy: Eight myths about early childhood education and care/"
http://www.childcarecanada.org/pubs/other/FF/
It's well-written and has a very lengthy list of references.

 

[gioia]

I think men's view of women is extremely regional.

However, find a guy who wants to work out of the home: freelance writing, stocks and investing, small farming, art etc., and hook up with him. They are usually intellegent and happy to be at home!

 

[gioia]

I think men's view of women is extremely regional.

However, find a guy who wants to work out of the home: freelance writing, stocks and investing, small farming, art, etc., and hook up with him. They are usually intellegent and happy to be at home!

 

[medmom]

Well I am going to post for any pre-meds not involved in the bashing that are still looking for opinions. I think the answer is completely personal and depends on your circumstances. I was a stupid teenager that got pregnant. But here I am anyway and married to my 3!!! kids' father. Our plan is to continue doing what we are doing now which is:
He is a bartender some evenings and a couple days a week. This gives him the flexibility to take off pretty much anytime he needs to including school plays, illness, etc. I go to school full time, raise my children and do homework late nights and early mornings. This has worked for us for 4 years and we plan on continuing.
The downsides: Hubby doen't have a successful, blossoming career. And that's about it.
The pros: I think it is important to have A parent available but I do not think it is important WHICH parent. Kids are only in daycare/preschool for 6 hours a week. They are EXTREMELY close with there father, hubby and I truly share the raising of our children and he is extremely involved, oh did I mention supportive of my career choice.
Overall I wouldn't change a thing. I am not a full time stay at home mom but I am home more than I would be if I worked full time. I think it is important to make your time "quality time" and to have priorities. It's like another med mom that I knew said "Some days your a mom first and some days your a student first."
I should also mention the my husband is a product of a mother in med school. He was 3 when she started school. So I have a first hand account of what it is like and he said he did not suffer a bit. his dad was very involved and his mom still made it to 95% of the soccer games, plays, and sick days. It's all about balance and priority. They also had another child during 4th year and said that it was harder because the baby had to be in daycare and is dad bore most of the responsibility.

 

[medic170]

Well I am going to post for any pre-meds not involved in the bashing that are still looking for opinions.

medmom, in everyone's defense (the bashing comment) this thread was from a year ago (May 2004) and got revived today. Thanks for posting though, My wife and I may have kids during my schooling.

 

[medmom]

Oh, I didn't even notice LOL, but thanks.