If you do an Osteopathic residency can you still do an Allopathic fellowship?

[clc8503]

It seems to me that the AOA does not offer enough fellowships. Anesthesiology is hot right now for DOs (even allopathic slots!) but the AOA offers very few fellowship programs for this field. The AOA only offers ONE fellowship program in PAIN MANAGEMENT and it barely accepts anyone. So if a DO does an AOA anesthesiology residency can he/she apply for a fellowship though the AMA? Do you have to do an Allopathic residency if you want to do an allopathic fellowship?

Thanks

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[OSUdoc08]

It seems to me that the AOA does not offer enough fellowships. Anesthesiology is hot right now for DOs (even allopathic slots!) but the AOA offers very few fellowship programs for this field. The AOA only offers ONE fellowship program in PAIN MANAGEMENT and it barely accepts anyone. So if a DO does an AOA anesthesiology residency can he/she apply for a fellowship though the AMA. Do you have to do an Allopathic residency if you want to do an allopathic fellowship?

Thanks

Yes, you can do an allopathic fellowship if you have done an osteopathic residency.

 

[DrMom]

It depends on the fellowship program. Some will accept an osteo residency, others will not.

 

[clc8503]

Yes, you can do an allopathic fellowship if you have done an osteopathic residency.

Now that you cleared up the fact that it can be done. Does it put the appicant at any disadvantages with the AMA (or individual fellowship programs) if he/she did an Osteopathic residency instead of an Allopathic.


Thanks

 

[clc8503]

It depends on the fellowship program. Some will accept an osteo residency, others will not.

So if you do an allopathic residency then you would have a much better chance for acceptance right? I mean, would more allopathic fellowship programs consider you or would it even make a difference?

Thanks

 

[(nicedream)]

I thought if you do an AOA residency and then ACGME fellowship, you cannot get board certification in the fellowship - I'm pretty sure that's true.

Yes, doing an AOA residency would put you at a big disadvantage when applying to ACGME fellowships.

 

[dr.z]

I think you can do AOA residency and still do ACGME fellowship. I think it goes case by case, but when I interviewed at TCOM, one of the faculty was cardiothoracic surgeon. He told me he did his residency at OSUCOM (general surgery), and an allopathic fellowship for cardiothoracic surgery. I forgot to ask him how it worked out, but I think it is possible.

 

[OSUdoc08]

I thought if you do an AOA residency and then ACGME fellowship, you cannot get board certification in the fellowship - I'm pretty sure that's true.

Yes, doing an AOA residency would put you at a big disadvantage when applying to ACGME fellowships.

Nope, not true.

 

[DO_Surgeon]

This is what I know is true for Cardiothoracic surgery...You cannot become board certified through the ABTS (American Board of Thoracic Surgery) if you complete a AOA GS residency and then an ACGME fellowship. However I called the AOA and you can become board certified from the AOA if you complete a AOA GS residency followd by a ACGME CT fellowship. You have to petition the AOA for training apporval which has been done by several DO CT surgeons in the past. I spoke with the DME of my residency program on Thursday about this very topic, and he told me the should be no problem getting BC through the AOA. I figured he would know since he was the president of ACOS a few years back and very well respected and known in the field. As far as other specialties I have no idea. I would assume if there is no osteopathic equivalant then the MD world might board certify, otherwise look at doing an ACGME fellowship and petition the AOA. I think ortho. surgery is an example. I do not believe there are any osteopathic ortho fellowships thus no AOA BC. I would definately contact the AOA first (Tracy Lofty is the person you want to call). Good luck

 

[(nicedream)]

I would still do an ACGME residency though, it will make things a lot easier for you. In anesth, you shouldn't have a problem.

 

[drdrtoledo]

We have discussed this many times before. You CAN do an allopathic fellowship after osteopathic residency... BUT you cannot sit for the allopathic board exam because most of them clearly state that an ACGME residency is a prerequisite. I know a few attendings that were kinda screwed because of this. The AOA boards, because of lack of availability, will grant you "board certified" status after doing ACGME fellowship if you fill out their paperwork and sit for their test. That is why you can get osteopathic board certification in things like Toxicology, when there isn't a single Tox program in DO world. They review it and OK it.

There is a rumor, passed to me by the OB director at my hospital, that there are some changes happening with this situation. It seems that some of the governing boards are changing the rules about allowing us to sit for the exam. It makes perfect sense, but I don't know if it will come to pass. Rumors are just that. But I can't imagine programs being too pleased that their fellows, whom they deemed qualified to train, cannot sit for the exam. It is just silly outdated politics.

I know someone will bring up an example of a DO that worked around this... I don't know what to say other than they probably filed a special petition that few people know about. But as I said, I know gastro, peds EM, and repro guys, all fellow trained who could not sit for the allo boards. Some went the AOA route, others didn't care and just wanted the training. If you KNOW someone who accomplished this please post what they did... it would serve very useful to a lot of us. Please don't speculate or use hearsay, please try to use some sort of reference/evidence. Remember fellow is not the same as diplomate.

If you did ACGME residency and then you ACGME fellow there will be no problems. I am not sure what the deal is if you do ACGME residency and try for an AOA fellowship... albeit, it's probably a rare occurence.

 

[DermpathDO]

It seems to me that the AOA does not offer enough fellowships. Anesthesiology is hot right now for DOs (even allopathic slots!) but the AOA offers very few fellowship programs for this field. The AOA only offers ONE fellowship program in PAIN MANAGEMENT and it barely accepts anyone. So if a DO does an AOA anesthesiology residency can he/she apply for a fellowship though the AMA? Do you have to do an Allopathic residency if you want to do an allopathic fellowship?

Thanks

Yes you can and you can apply to the AOA Board that is associate dwith your specialty to have your Allopathic residency approved thru the AOA.
I did that for my Dermpath fellowship

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Nope, not true.

I would put very little (if any) stock in blanket statements like these, especially those made by a medical student. Pain management fellowships are pretty popular these days. At my program we have more CA-3's going into pain than we have spots available. I can't imagine osteopathic gas residencies are very well looked upon as compared to their allopathic counterparts, putting one at a pretty significant disadvantage.

 

[OSUdoc08]

I would put very little (if any) stock in blanket statements like these, especially those made by a medical student. Pain management fellowships are pretty popular these days. At my program we have more CA-3's going into pain than we have spots available. I can't imagine osteopathic gas residencies are very well looked upon as compared to their allopathic counterparts, putting one at a pretty significant disadvantage.

It may be difficult to get in, but there is no rule saying you cannot. The difficulty of getting in is directly related to competition. If you are the best candidate, you will get the position.

You may discount that fact that I am a medical student, however, I have conversed with residents and fellows extensively about the matter.

This may depend on what part of the country you are in, but in my area, it is known that the osteopathic residencies are excellent, and in some cases, are much better than the allopathic residencies in the same cities.

 

[EMTLizzy]

Just when I thought I had my life planned out...I'm confused again.

So, what if I want to do a one year rotating internship followed by an ACGME residency and an ACGME fellowship? Are the AOA gods and the AMA board people all going to disown me? Or can I then get board certified by the AMA while still taking care of my 5 state internship requirement?

 

[DrMom]

Just when I thought I had my life planned out...I'm confused again.

So, what if I want to do a one year rotating internship followed by an ACGME residency and an ACGME fellowship? Are the AOA gods and the AMA board people all going to disown me? Or can I then get board certified by the AMA while still taking care of my 5 state internship requirement?

#1) The specialty boards do the certifications
#2) If you do an ACGME residency program you're board certified through the ACGME specialty board
#3) If you do an Osteopathic residency you're board certified through the Osteopathic specialty board
#4) The Osteopathic internship is a completely different issue & doesn't affect your board cert at all. If you do an Osteo internship & then an ACGME residency, then your board cert would be through the ACGME board. The allo board doesn't care about your Osteo internship.
#5) Some ACGME programs have AOA approval for their PGY1 to count as an Osteopathic internship even though it is through an allo institution.
#6) In some situations you can use resolution 42 to get your PGY1 year at an ACGME program approved as an Osteo intern year. There are some requirements you'll have to fit in, but it can be do-able. Do note, though, that the AOA is becoming more strict in approving applications under resolution 42. For example, they've been turning some down if there is an Osteo residency program in the same specialty within 90 miles of the ACGME program someone is in...their reasoning being that you could have gone DO and still lived in the same area.


Hope that helps some.

 

[EMTLizzy]

Hope that helps some.

Yep! Thanks, DrMom.

I wanted to do a rotating internship, and it won't be hard to find one near where I live since there are several within a somewhat reasonable commuting distance.

And, hopefully, the closest hospital will be getting approval for AOA residencies.

 

[(nicedream)]

#1)
#6) In some situations you can use resolution 42 to get your PGY1 year at an ACGME program approved as an Osteo intern year. There are some requirements you'll have to fit in, but it can be do-able. Do note, though, that the AOA is becoming more strict in approving applications under resolution 42. For example, they've been turning some down if there is an Osteo residency program in the same specialty within 90 miles of the ACGME program someone is in...their reasoning being that you could have gone DO and still lived in the same area.

How are they being on prelim years? I would think they'd approve them since you couldn't do an AOA internship as your prelim before starting an ACGME residency.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

It may be difficult to get in, but there is no rule saying you cannot. The difficulty of getting in is directly related to competition. If you are the best candidate, you will get the position.

You are completely missing the point about osteopathic gas residencies and getting an allopathic pain fellowship. If you do an osteopathic gas residency, then unfortunately no matter how smart or hard-working you are, chances are that you are not the best candidate - simply because osteopathic gas residencies are very few, not very well-known, and generally not very well-respected at all in the allopathic world. You will receive uniformly better training at allopathic programs. This is my view, and it is also the view of my chair, who is connected nationally in gas circles as anyone in the country.