If you're gonna kill someone, do it SAFELY.

Started by caligas
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In an interview that aired Tuesday on VICE News Tonight on HBO, Dozier appeared enthusiastic about the prospect of being executed using fentanyl.

"I think it's awesome. I mean, it's killing people all over the place," Dozier told the program. "You guys get pharmaceutical grade fentanyl and just bang me up man."



i mean...just lol
 
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dannyboy1 said:
Why? In execution they used monstrously large doses ( in one state I thing they used 750 mg of dilaudid in addition to versed). Very little chance of recall with such huge doses.
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so they give the drugs, and wait and wait and wait until the patient eventually succumbs to hypoxemia?
what ever happened to giving IV potassium to arrest the heart?
 
dannyboy1 said:
Why? In execution they used monstrously large doses ( in one state I thing they used 750 mg of dilaudid in addition to versed). Very little chance of recall with such huge doses.
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We are on dilaudid shortage. That’s enough for a few hundred patients.

We can also just put them in morphine drip. Save the versed and cis.
 
These protocols always get flak for the appearance of discomfort. IV potassium burns, and the 20g crappy IVs these guys likely get make that more likely. So here it sounds like they’re planning to give him a great 3-5 second high before paralyzing him so there isn’t any coughing, choking, or “struggling to breath”.

Just give him an old school cardiac induction, then hit him with nondepolarizer. Hypoxic arrest should occur before the nimbex wears off as long as they don’t underdose that of all things.

You almost couldn’t design a more humane drug cocktail, hell, it’s probably euphoric for a few seconds.
 
caligas said:
Well let’s have a philosophical discussion: if one commits a cruel crime, is a cruel punishment just?
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In this case, the guy is ASKING for capital punishment because he hates the thought of lifelong incarceration. Im normally of the mind that if we have capital punishment, why save it in a case like this (double murder and dismemberment) but his desire for it sort of makes me say “nah, the life sentence seems to be the perfect punishment”.

But as to your question, I think we should be better than the criminal, and aim for as pain free or humane punishment as possible.
 
The other philosophical question, or maybe more accurately the perception concern we might ask is if it’s good to associate fentanyl, versed, propofol etc with executions?

I mean we already still deal with the fact propofol “killed” MJ, and fentanyl “killed” Prince. If all of our drugs are how we put criminals to death what do we expect the perception of these meds to be?
 
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Robotic Wis-Hipple said:
In this case, the guy is ASKING for capital punishment because he hates the thought of lifelong incarceration. Im normally of the mind that if we have capital punishment, why save it in a case like this (double murder and dismemberment) but his desire for it sort of makes me say “nah, the life sentence seems to be the perfect punishment”.

But as to your question, I think we should be better than the criminal, and aim for as pain free or humane punishment as possible.
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You have the moral high ground but just for sake of argument, if someone did something awful to a loved one, wouldn’t you want the opportunity to see them suffer?

Does that desire justify it or does emotion make it impossible to do the morally right thing?
 
caligas said:
You have the moral high ground but just for sake of argument, if someone did something awful to a loved one, wouldn’t you want the opportunity to see them suffer?

Does that desire justify it or does emotion make it impossible to do the morally right thing?
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So.... large dose of muscle relaxant and nothing else? Seems like a horrible way to go
 
Rape and murder of a family member.
No question of guilt, perp admits he did it.
Everybody still sitting on their high horse?

I’m asking for a bat and five minutes.
 
NightNight said:
Rape and murder of a family member.
No question of guilt, perp admits he did it.
Everybody still sitting on their high horse?

I’m asking for a bat and five minutes.
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I am always torn about death penalty and has gotten into heated argument with mrs.

I forgot the movie, but someone did say, to kill someone is to take away their past, present and future; their was, is and will be. This is IT. Every time I think of that, I take a big pause.
 
I am not a fan of the death penalty for several reasons, but a primary one is that it costs more to execute a prisoner than it does to imprison them for life. With all the financial difficulties our governments face, why waste money killing these scumbags? Just lock them in a hole and let them regret their actions for decades.
 
An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind.

If you can stomach the idea of another human being tortured to death, despite what atrocities they may have committed, you're subtly showing glimpses of the same innate, dark, animalistic qualities that may driven the perpetrator to commit the first crime to begin with.
 
Mman said:
I am not a fan of the death penalty for several reasons, but a primary one is that it costs more to execute a prisoner than it does to imprison them for life. With all the financial difficulties our governments face, why waste money killing these scumbags? Just lock them in a hole and let them regret their actions for decades.
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It costs more, we not infrequently execute innocent people, and there's a historical bias in the ppl who actually receive the penalty (black murdering a white vs white murdering black).

But even forgetting all that, I just personally think its not moral to kill someone unless your life, your family's life, or your country is in imminent mortal danger.
 
Justice is impartial and should be devoid of emotion. Justice is supposed to be rational and objective. Once emotion enters the equation, it is vengeance and not justice. All the questions about how you would feel if a family member were hurt or killed are irrelevant when talking about justice.
 
Mman said:
I am not a fan of the death penalty for several reasons, but a primary one is that it costs more to execute a prisoner than it does to imprison them for life. With all the financial difficulties our governments face, why waste money killing these scumbags? Just lock them in a hole and let them regret their actions for decades.
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It only costs more because of the way we do it and the endless appeals process.
 
Urzuz said:
An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind.

If you can stomach the idea of another human being tortured to death, despite what atrocities they may have committed, you're subtly showing glimpses of the same innate, dark, animalistic qualities that may driven the perpetrator to commit the first crime to begin with.
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This is BS, plain and simple. I get that some people simply don’t have the stomach for these things. But humans are no different than any other animal. Some just need to be put down.
 
GravelRider said:
Justice is impartial and should be devoid of emotion. Justice is supposed to be rational and objective. Once emotion enters the equation, it is vengeance and not justice. All the questions about how you would feel if a family member were hurt or killed are irrelevant when talking about justice.
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What is wrong with vengeance? It is easy for someone to say if you were not the victim.
 
NightNight said:
This is BS, plain and simple. I get that some people simply don’t have the stomach for these things. But humans are no different than any other animal. Some just need to be put down.
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And this comment alone shows that you are letting those animal instincts trump your judgment, reason, ethics and discrimination -- qualities that are uniquely human.
 
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NightNight said:
It only costs more because of the way we do it and the endless appeals process.
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since we still have executed innocent people I think you'd be hard pressed to argue in favor of a lesser appeals process. And it doesn't matter the reason, the simple fact is it costs more money. I have other issues against the death penalty, but the libertarian in me has a hard time justifying the cost of the process when simply rotting and dying in prison with no hope of getting out is still a nasty punishment. Hell, put the prison underground and never let them see sunshine the rest of their life for all I care.
 
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NightNight said:
Rape and murder of a family member.
No question of guilt, perp admits he did it.
Everybody still sitting on their high horse?

I’m asking for a bat and five minutes.
Click to expand...

I would too.... But there is a reason that family members of crime victims are not involved in the investigation, prosecution, and adjudication of the crime.
 
narcotics999 said:
What is wrong with vengeance? It is easy for someone to say if you were not the victim.
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Nothing...although, some may argue it is immoral. I just think the distinction between justice and vengeance is an important one.
 
If the death penalty costs more than keeping someone in prison for the rest of their lives that amazes me, and actually may change my mind a bit. I actually think life in prison would be horrible, but if it’s also cheaper, I say that is two reasons to do it.

But really, it’s less expensive to keep someone in prison, and provide medical care etc for 30 years than to have an extra couple of appeals? It’s not like the lifers don’t appeal as well.
 
Robotic Wis-Hipple said:
If the death penalty costs more than keeping someone in prison for the rest of their lives that amazes me, and actually may change my mind a bit. I actually think life in prison would be horrible, but if it’s also cheaper, I say that is two reasons to do it.

But really, it’s less expensive to keep someone in prison, and provide medical care etc for 30 years than to have an extra couple of appeals? It’s not like the lifers don’t appeal as well.
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This Chart Shows How Insanely Expensive Death-Penalty Cases Are

Costs of the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center
 
caligas said:
Well let’s have a philosophical discussion: if one commits a cruel crime, is a cruel punishment just?
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If the punishment is death, death should be the only punishment, not torture and death. If torture were to be included, it should have to be part of the sentence handed down by the legitimate authority. Just like prison rape. As viscerally satisfying to some as it is to hear of awful people being viciously and serially raped in prison, that isn't part of their sentence and is unjust.

Interesting timing...
Sale of 150-year-old guillotine divides France
 
projectpat said:
Didn't thiopental fall out of favor due to its association with lethal injections? will the same happen to versed/fentanyl?
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States are scrambling to get good drug cocktails. The manufacturers are not selling them to states to execute people.

I was under the impression they used central lines (read a story where the “doc” put a femoral line somewhere (not the femoral vein).
 
If you wanted to kill in the most humane possible way with no need for establishing IV access on possibly difficult patients, simply put them in a gas chamber and pump in 100% nitrous oxide. They can sit around and read a book or play video games or eat a meal and they will get giggly and eventually hypoxic and they will die with 100% efficacy and no chance of suffering. You don't get air hunger on essentially 1.0 MAC of gas.

(and I'm still not in favor of the death penalty, just saying...)
 
i think we need more death penalty. prisons are full and therefore people who dont deserve to get out are getting out early. how many times have you seen on the news, someone finally getting a lifetime sentence in prison after it being their 25th arrest with jail time here and there? i feel like for some people these days, we are literally waiting for that final crime to put them in jail forever. unfortunately that final crime is usually a death of someone else
 
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anbuitachi said:
i think we need more death penalty. prisons are full and therefore people who dont deserve to get out are getting out early. how many times have you seen on the news, someone finally getting a lifetime sentence in prison after it being their 25th arrest with jail time here and there? i feel like for some people these days, we are literally waiting for that final crime to put them in jail forever. unfortunately that final crime is usually a death of someone else
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Our prisons are full of nonviolent offenders. There are plenty of people in prison just because they like to get high. Using the death penalty as a means to control the prison population seems a bit more immoral to me than using it for any other reason.
 
anbuitachi said:
i think we need more death penalty. prisons are full and therefore people who dont deserve to get out are getting out early. how many times have you seen on the news, someone finally getting a lifetime sentence in prison after it being their 25th arrest with jail time here and there? i feel like for some people these days, we are literally waiting for that final crime to put them in jail forever. unfortunately that final crime is usually a death of someone else
Click to expand...

The US has 4.4% of the world's population but 22% of the world's prisoners. If you think that statistic exists because America has more naturally born criminals per capita then I've got a bridge to sell ya...
 
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anbuitachi said:
i think we need more death penalty. prisons are full and therefore people who dont deserve to get out are getting out early. how many times have you seen on the news, someone finally getting a lifetime sentence in prison after it being their 25th arrest with jail time here and there? i feel like for some people these days, we are literally waiting for that final crime to put them in jail forever. unfortunately that final crime is usually a death of someone else
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Maybe the prisons are too full because we're putting too many people in them.

Legalized weed alone would clear up some room.
 
So hypothetically, it is more humane to lock someone up for life in a cage, then a quick painless death? Very debatable

If we are wrong sometimes on death penalty, then we should not do it at all? So if we are wrong sometimes on imprisonment, should we not do it at all?

Should we forego a process because it is not perfect? There goes every surgery.

Why use nitrous when you can just use 100% nitrogen?

I am for legalized weed to help with prisons, but against it because I worry it makes it easier for people to not fulfill their life's goals. You can say it is not a gateway drug, etc but I believe it limits many things in your life.

I realize there is two arguments and there are no answers here, just stirring the pot!
 
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