Illinois Residents - CCOM vs. Some Illinois MD School

[rocketbooster]

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I'm not trying to start a flame war or anything. I just want to know the honest opinion from Illinois residents.

I'm applying to CCOM and it looks like a great school. I think I have a pretty good shot for an acceptance. I am also applying to my state MD school (not in Illinois). Both schools actually have the same average MCATs but my state school's GPA is a 3.7 to CCOM's 3.5. So, the only difference # wise between the two is the GPA. Now, I have both a 28 and 3.7, so I may get into both schools, who knows...I thought before I'd hands down go with the MD school but now I'm not so sure as I find out more about CCOM.

For Illinois residents, if you got into CCOM and some MD IL school (like Rosalind Franklin, Univ of Illinois, Rush, etc. NOT pritzker or northwestern), what school would you choose in the end? How competitive is CCOM in the Chicago/Illinois community compared to those lower-tier MD IL med schools? Why would you go with one over the other?

 

[droogdoc]

Well, I wouldn't say U of I or SIU are lower-tiered MD schools. But I know that CCOM does have a GREAT rep around here, as well as the entire country. The hospitals the students rotate through are definitely the best in the Chicagoland area. CCOM has afiliations with some allopathic hospitals as well, including Loyola and Rush.

Since I am only going the DO route obviously I am partial to wanting to attend CCOM. But honestly, if I had to choose between CCOM or U of I I would still choose CCOM. U of I is a good school but their class size is enormous (~320). Even though it is split between a couple of campuses some grads said it was kind of a meat grinder. Also, U of I campus is near an area that is almost a war zone.

 

[TeamZissou]

The consensus I get from people around here varies but some of my classmates took CCOM over UIC and Rosalind Franklin. There are differences between them but we will probably end up rotating in the same hospitals they do. I've posted where CCOM does rotations multiple times on here so just look at my previous posts and compare that list to UIC or Rosalind Franklin.

Also Rush is a great school and while they may not be known as widely as Northwestern or U of C they are a step above CCOM, Rosalind Franklin, and UIC IMHO.

Another thing to consider is most IL residents will elect to go to UIC over CCOM mostly for tuition price purposes. Two of my current classmates chose CCOM over those schools because they felt like the pricetag was similar enough and they liked what CCOM had to offer.

That being said, I love it here so far and havn't regretted my decision to attend here at all.

 

[somethingsmart]

The hospitals the students rotate through are definitely the best in the Chicagoland area.

CCOM is a good school with intelligent and well trained students and all, but I don't know if I'd go that far. The fact that CCOM (and Rosalind Franklin for that matter) doesn't have its own academic medical center puts it at a distinct disadvantage compared to the other Chicago area medical schools. As a result, their students have to rotate through a hodgepodge of community hospitals throughout the Chicagoland area. Most of their clerkships are at Cook County, Mt. Sinai, and St. James Olympia Fields, along with a number of other community hospitals...none of which I'd call "the best" in the area. Some of those sites, like Mt. Sinai, are actually downright awful to be honest.

Going back to the original question...if I had to choose, personally I think I'd go with UIC (or a similar state school) over CCOM. If your goal is to go into primary care, then the MD vs DO issue is moot. However, chances are the state school will cost less and you'll graduate with less debt. If your goal is to go into a competitive specialty, the MD from UIC will open more doors for you. Before I start a flame war...I am aware that DOs do match in allopathic ENT and Neurosurgey residencies, and that its exceptionally difficult for anyone, MD or DO, to get into these fields. However, not having an MD (even from a mediocre state school) will make things that much harder.

 

[mommy2three]

i have been here for a year as a master's student and i love it.
i will not (for various reasons that i can not state) go to franklin over ccom.
i most likely will not go to ui over ccom.
rush may be intriguing since they offer a lot of online and i live in suburbia, it may come in handy.
i like loyolas block system as well.

but at the end of the day i would probably choose ccom due to the fact that i LOVE 😍 it here and i am quite comfortable here plus i am already familiar with the profs and how they test/what they test which should theoretically make the whole experience a little bit smoother 🙂

 

[rocketbooster]

i have been here for a year as a master's student and i love it.
i will not (for various reasons that i can not state) go to franklin over ccom.
i most likely will not go to ui over ccom.
rush may be intriguing since they offer a lot of online and i live in suburbia, it may come in handy.
i like loyolas block system as well.

but at the end of the day i would probably choose ccom due to the fact that i LOVE 😍 it here and i am quite comfortable here plus i am already familiar with the profs and how they test/what they test which should theoretically make the whole experience a little bit smoother 🙂

honestly, I hear from all med students that all med schools are super hard. I think your butt will get kicked anywhere you go, so thinking CCOM is easier for you would probably not be a good reason to choose it.

also, I know many MD students. they all tell them that DO school is harder than MD because DO students have to do everything MDs do plus the OMM classes/training. the MD students actually tell me I should go to the caribbean over DO because, from what they've heard, DO schools really kick your butt more than elsewhere haha.

I just hope I get into my state MD school (not in IL) so tuition is half the price for me haha. I am very excited for CCOM, though, no doubt. I'd love to go there, as well. I would actually choose CCOM hands down over my state MD school IF CCOM didn't cost twice as much.

 

[womp]

CCOM is expensive as hell. Out of principle, it seems inappropriate for a school with a philosophy that's geared more towards primary care to charge $46,000 for tuition alone. And they don't even have their own hospital! (so you're driving everywhere in northeast Illinois during rotations).

 

[womp]

Since I am only going the DO route obviously I am partial to wanting to attend CCOM. But honestly, if I had to choose between CCOM or U of I I would still choose CCOM. U of I is a good school but their class size is enormous (~320). Even though it is split between a couple of campuses some grads said it was kind of a meat grinder. Also, U of I campus is near an area that is almost a war zone.

UIC's class size might be enormous, but they have 3 campuses, and the Chicago campus has no more than 170 students in a class, and you can always pick Urbana/Rockford and Urbana/Peoria. The different campuses are essentially different schools, with their own curriculum and rotation schedules. CCOM has 170-200 people per class on one campus.

If one is in-state and doesn't care much for the DO philosophy, I don't understand why that person would pick CCOM over UIC, unless they didn't get into UIC. CCOM is $20,000 more expensive than UIC, and their match list isn't comparable to UIC's, especially if you want to go into a university-based surgical specialty.

 

[TeamZissou]

CCOM is expensive as hell. Out of principle, it seems inappropriate for a school with a philosophy that's geared more towards primary care to charge $46,000 for tuition alone. And they don't even have their own hospital! (so you're driving everywhere in northeast Illinois during rotations).

If you think CCOM is expensive check out the OOS prices to some of the MD schools. If I remember right Northwestern is right up there.

 

[Tizoc]

Is George Wash still $65K? If so, it makes CCOM a relative bargain.

 

[TeamZissou]

CCOM is expensive as hell. Out of principle, it seems inappropriate for a school with a philosophy that's geared more towards primary care to charge $46,000 for tuition alone. And they don't even have their own hospital! (so you're driving everywhere in northeast Illinois during rotations).

True CCOM doesn't have their own hospital. However this can work out quite nicely if you want to develop more contacts in the Chicagoland area than just one hospital. Here there is a lottery system where you can put in to do your rotations at quite a few of the hospitals in the area (Cook County, Masonic, Christ, etc). So if you want to do your anesthesia rotation at Masonic but your EM at Christ, those are both optimal places to do it at. As opposed to being stuck at "our" hospital.

All I'm saying is there are benefits and drawbacks to everything. Don't take the typical view on SDN (of university based is always better) for granted. Because there are many exceptions.

Also I agree with you that if you were an IL resident and got into UIC, unless you have specific reasons to go to CCOM, I'd pick UIC every time for the tuition difference.

 

[womp]

Is George Wash still $65K? If so, it makes CCOM a relative bargain.

No, tuition at GWU is $47,000, identical to CCOM.

If you think CCOM is expensive check out the OOS prices to some of the MD schools. If I remember right Northwestern is right up there.

Northwestern ($43k) is actually cheaper than CCOM ($47k); the former is a top tier school and also gives out significant merit aid. And the other top school in Chicago, Pritzker (UChicago) gives out $160k scholarships to almost everyone in their class. Have you compared the match lists between Northwestern and CCOM? They're clearly not in the same league. CCOM graduates a much higher proportion of students who go into community primary care programs, and at least to me, it just seems kind of wrong to charge so much. If the only school you got into was CCOM, then go for it. But if you have other in-state options, I'd advise the OP to go there instead rather than coming up with BS rationalizations.

 

[TeamZissou]

Dude, reread the last line of my post.

Secondly I was NOT comparing CCOM to Northwestern in terms of quality of schools. I was comparing prices. Someone who gets into Northwestern is not going to be someone who goes to CCOM (that I'm aware of). I'm real about this whole process, you get in to places that are similar in quality based on your stats. Then you choose the best school for you based on what criteria you think are most important.

 

[MedicIL]

Thanks for starting this post. I had this same question when I was applying for medical schools here in IL. I am a first year at CCOM and definitely think I made the right choice. A few of my classmates from undergrad are at Rosalind Franklin and Loyola right now and to be honest, they all thought I would have been a better candidate at their schools than they themselves. I had a competitive GPA both undergrad and graduate (with honors, if I may add) AND 6 years of extensive hands-on clinical experience (and I'm not talking about being a patient transporter or volunteer). I would have been a great candidate for an allopathic (MD) medical school but chose an osteopathic (DO) medical school as a personal choice.

I chose CCOM because:

1) I got over the MD/DO thing: I realized the fact that a DO has the same ability/chance to become a successfull physician as an MD. Residencies are going to look at your board scores (USMLE or COMLEX), letters of rec. from your rotations and your success in medical school courses. A successful career as a physician will depend on your personal drive in excelling in the field of medicine, not whether if you are an MD or DO. For the people that pick MD just for the initials "M.D.", do it. You will always be miserable evertime you think about it if you end up going to an osteopathic school. So if you are biased against CCOM because it's an osteopathic school.....you need to get over it.

2) I love the location: I hate living in the city. I can't stand the high taxes and the high cost of living. Having lived all my life in the suburbs of Chicago, I just hate living close to other people in the city. Loyola is in a suburb, but Maywood is g-h-e-t-t-o. Rosalind Franklin is in a suburb, but it's too far away. My fiance goes into the city and it's closer for her to commute from Downers Grove than North Chicago. Plus, I didn't feel at home when I visited their campus.

3) I admire all the graduates from CCOM: Most DOs from the chicagoland area I met graduated are from CCOM. They all had a great time there, and have had great careers as leaders in their field of medicine. People recognize these physicians for their hard work and love for their patients and co-workers (i.e. both physicians and nurses).....not the fact that they are a DO

4) I wanted a place that focuses on clinical medicine: If you are going to medical school for research, CCOM is not the place for you. I hate research. I would rather stab myself in the eye if I had to do clinical studies (like Harvard U. forces you to). Instead I love talking to patients and caring for them. CCOM has a long standing history of graduating competent and empathetic physicians, a quality I personally admire the most.

The list goes on and on. I chose CCOM because it was a nice fit for me. You, and only you, are the only person that can tell you what is best for you. So, take my comments, including all others in this forum, into consideration when you make selections for medical school. Don't choose a school because someone said so.

My advise for you is:
- Go where you feel comfortable. Go visit campuses and ask people.
- Know that if you choose to be a DO, you will have to live with the fact that people will always ask you about what a DO is.
- Don't worry about the money. You will always be able to secure loans for med school. You would rather have a fun 4 yrs at med school going where you love while paying $200,000 instead of being miserable for 4 yrs paying $50,000. The $150,000 difference is manageable taking into consideration your earning potential when you become a practicing physician.

PM me if you have any other questions. Good Luck!!

 

[MedicIL]

Dude, reread the last line of my post.

Secondly I was NOT comparing CCOM to Northwestern in terms of quality of schools. I was comparing prices. Someone who gets into Northwestern is not going to be someone who goes to CCOM (that I'm aware of). I'm real about this whole process, you get in to places that are similar in quality based on your stats. Then you choose the best school for you based on what criteria you think are most important.

Team Zissou is right. If you want research, go to Northwestern or U of C. They have good research potential.

And to everyone on this thread: DON'T JUDGE A MEDICAL SCHOOL ON HOW MUCH IT COSTS. 😡

I have yet to hear of a physician having financial difficulties paying off their medical school debt......unless they have a gambling problem or other huge financial dues.

I think anyone who picks a school for its cost needs a wake up call. I made that mistake once when I picked a college for undergrad. I KNOW I can make more money in the future with great board scores when I do great in school because I love it here. As a physician, paying off a $100-$200k debt is manageable. Don't be miserable at a school just because you want to save money you could make in just a few months.

 

[MedicIL]

I have both a 28 and 3.7, so I may get into both schools, who knows...

I've known someone with a 32 and a 3.9 that didn't get accepted.........

 

[somethingsmart]

the MD students actually tell me I should go to the caribbean over DO because, from what they've heard, DO schools really kick your butt more than elsewhere haha.

That has to be one of the most asinine things I've ever heard. The Caribbean institutions are schools of last resort. Period. As a DO, you are virtually guaranteed a US residency. Caribbean grads, on the other hand, for the most part end up fighting over the sh*tty residencies that no American grad wants (and that's provided they graduate and crush Step I/II).

If the ultimate goal is to practice medicine in the US, its never a good idea to turn down any American school to go abroad.

True CCOM doesn't have their own hospital. However this can work out quite nicely if you want to develop more contacts in the Chicagoland area than just one hospital. Here there is a lottery system where you can put in to do your rotations at quite a few of the hospitals in the area (Cook County, Masonic, Christ, etc). So if you want to do your anesthesia rotation at Masonic but your EM at Christ, those are both optimal places to do it at. As opposed to being stuck at "our" hospital.

All I'm saying is there are benefits and drawbacks to everything. Don't take the typical view on SDN (of university based is always better) for granted. Because there are many exceptions.

I agree...and most of the medical schools that have their own hospitals also allow students to rotate through other institutions. UIC, for example, lets its students do core clerkships at a number of local hospitals (including Masonic and Christ, among many others). You're also free to do away rotations at most schools.

The advantage to attending UIC and other similar schools is that their students also have access to a major regional academic medical center...which not only affords greater opportunities for research (important if you want a competitive residency), but also has residency programs in practically every specialty (which helps when youre applying, as your chances are often best at your "home" institute).

Not having a university hospital is a major drawback, IMHO.

 

[MedicIL]

Not having a university hospital is a major drawback, IMHO

Nope, not doing good in med school and sucking at your board exams is a drawback to future success. Residencies don't look at where you did your rotations, they look at how good you did in them.

Have you ever been to UIC Medical Center? Sure, it's a university hospital but I tell ya what, I've taken ICU patients in and out of there......and it's scarier than some community hospitals in the NW suburbs. The surgical ICU is cramped, dark and stinks . Reminds me of the ol' Cook County hospital. Being an academic hospital, their ER isn't even a Level I! They don't even have a good peds service. They ship out their peds patients to Stroger (former Cook County) and Rush all the time! Their nursing staff (and I have nothing against filipino nurses) reminds me of nursing homes 🙁

Bottom line is..... please don't use a University Hospital as a basis of assessing educational quality.

 

[TeamZissou]

I agree...and most of the medical schools that have their own hospitals also allow students to rotate through other institutions. UIC, for example, lets its students do core clerkships at a number of local hospitals (including Masonic and Christ, among many others). You're also free to do away rotations at most schools.

The advantage to attending UIC and other similar schools is that their students also have access to a major regional academic medical center...which not only affords greater opportunities for research (important if you want a competitive residency), but also has residency programs in practically every specialty (which helps when youre applying, as your chances are often best at your "home" institute).

Not having a university hospital is a major drawback, IMHO.

In my opinion the most clear cut advantage to UIC is the price. I will also agree that having a university hospital does provide opportunity. However it just depends on what you want. MedicIL for one wants nothing to do with research. I will do it in so much as it helps me get a residency that I want but I do not intend to go into academics as a career. Different strokes for different folks.

I personally think people put way too much stock in the "sdn mentality" and get caught up in all these pissing competitions of X vs Y and needing to have a,b,c qualifications. Bottom line is, YOU have more control over your education than any other factor in this. So just take the route that fits you best for WHATEVER reason that is. Whether it be price, location, research, rotations, proximity to family or significant other.... It really doesn't matter as long as you do what is best for you, and no one else can tell you what that is.

 

[somethingsmart]

For the record, I don't go to UIC.

Nope, not doing good in med school and sucking at your board exams is a drawback to future success. Residencies don't look at where you did your rotations, they look at how good you did in them.

Seeing as to how you're not even in med school yet, let alone applying to residencies, I find it a little amusing that you're lecturing me on "what residencies look at." Moreover, you apparently didn't even bother reading why I said having your own academic medical center helps, and decided to let me know that boards scores and clerkship grades matter. Thanks for the tip 👍

To reiterate, having your own academic medical center helps for the following reasons, among others:
1. Research - Planning on going into rads? Ophtho? ENT? Derm? Ortho? Rad onc? Neurosurgery? Want to match in a "top tier" program in other fields? Chances are you will need research. It is significantly easier to get inolved with research if you have a home department.

2. Matching at the home department - Again, if youre planning on going into any relatively competitive field, at most schools, your best chances seem to be at your home institution. Kinda sucks if you don't have one.

3. Connections - Do not underestimate the value of having your home department's chairman or PD "making a call" for you at a program you want to match at.

Have you ever been to UIC Medical Center? Sure, it's a university hospital but I tell ya what, I've taken ICU patients in and out of there......and it's scarier than some community hospitals in the NW suburbs. The surgical ICU is cramped, dark and stinks .

LOL. You're evaluating the quality of a medical institution based on how pretty it is inside. Nice.

I did see it when I was interviewing there. I agree, it's no Northwestern Memorial. That has no bearing on the points I made above.

They don't even have a good peds service. They ship out their peds patients to Stroger (former Cook County) and Rush all the time!

Now I can confidently say you have no idea what you're talking about. I am aware that UIC's peds dept/residency sucks as far as academic centers are concerned. However, SCHIP has gutted County's peds and OB departments...they barely have any patients (there are 2 entire peds wards that are completely abandoned because they don't have enough patients to fill them). The only transfers they get are from other County hospitals (Provident) and godawful community hospitals on the south/west side (Mt Sinai, Little Company of Mary, Holy Cross, etc)...some of which, if I'm not mistaken, are major CMS and CCOM rotation sites.

Bottom line is, YOU have more control over your education than any other factor in this. So just take the route that fits you best for WHATEVER reason that is. Whether it be price, location, research, rotations, proximity to family or significant other.... It really doesn't matter as long as you do what is best for you, and no one else can tell you what that is.

Thats all good and well if you're planning on going into primary care. Unfortunately, the reality of the situation is that having a DO does put you at a disadvantage if you plan on applying to moderately competitive ACGME residencies, and makes it exceptionally difficult (if not virtually impossible) to match in highly competitive ACGME residencies.

 

[MedicIL]

you're not even in med school yet

Already in med school dude.

 

[ChiDO]

This guys medical school > all others:

 

[TeamZissou]

Hahahahaha soooo I'm guessing that pic was taken at a NASCAR race?

 

[Instatewaiter]

And to everyone on this thread: DON'T JUDGE A MEDICAL SCHOOL ON HOW MUCH IT COSTS. 😡

I have yet to hear of a physician having financial difficulties paying off their medical school debt......unless they have a gambling problem or other huge financial dues.

This really is the wrong attitude. You will realize doctors do struggle under the debt, especially the younger ones. The older docs didn't have the same kind of debt b/c med school has gotten progressively more expensive and reimbursement has dropped. $250K is the same as a mortgage to a house, the only difference is that for 3-7 years you let the interest accumulate b/c you do not have money to pay it off during residency. $250K over 20 years turns into $450K after interest. To pay back that size of loan, even under hardship, you need to make more than a normal primary care doc does.

If you are deciding between 2 schools that are very similar and one costs $20K less per year you'd better look hard at that school and come up with a convincing reason to pay an extra $150K after interest.

Nope, not doing good in med school and sucking at your board exams is a drawback to future success. Residencies don't look at where you did your rotations, they look at how good you did in them.

Bottom line is..... please don't use a University Hospital as a basis of assessing educational quality.

While you must do well on the boards and on the wards, where you do your rotations is impt and believe it or not, residency directors do look at where you did your rotations.

Generally speaking, large university hospitals offer more of an opportunity to see diverse cases because frankly, small hospitals transfer all the interesting stuff to large hospitals. Smaller hospitals will also be lacking many of the specialties you may be interested in.

Overall this is about what won't limit your choices. If you want to go into urology and hospital you got for your surgery clerkship doesn't have a urology dept you are SOL- especially since it is early match.

Already in med school dude.

For what, 2 weeks? I imagine that gives the experience needed to discuss rotations and matching.

 

[womp]

Here's the 2009 UIC (Chicago campus) match list:
http://www.uic.edu/depts/mcam/osa/careers/MatchData/2009MatchResultsbySpecialty.htm

UIC-Chicago: 13 Anethesiology, 2 Dermatology, 14 EM, 5 Ophthalmology, 8 Orthopedic Surgery, 5 ENT, 16 Rads, 1 Rad-onc, 12 General Surgery (categorical), 1 Urology, 1 Neurosurgery, 36 IM, 14 Peds, 11 Family


Here's the 2009 CCOM match list:
http://mwunet.midwestern.edu/academic/CCOMClinEd/clinicalEdDocs/StudentMatches_2009.pdf

CCOM: 2 Anethesiology (1 DO), 1 Dermatology (1 DO), 19 EM (12 DO), 0 Ophthalmology, 2 Orthopedic Surgery (2 DO), 1 ENT (1 DO), 4 Rads (2 DO), 2 General Surgery (2 DO), 2 Urology (2 DO), 2 Neurosurgery (1 DO), 26 IM (10 DO), 11 Peds (0 DO), 38 Family (28 DO)


And CCOM is nearly $20,000 per year more expensive than UIC.

 

[IDBasco]

I don't know a lot about the other schools in IL, but I can say that there is nothing about CCOM that would ever make it worth more to me as a student than going to some other school there. Some good points have been made here about home programs, residency connections, etc. Not to mention you wouldn't have to hassle with learning OMM. I wanted to like it, but its left me luke-warm at best.

I received an interview invite to both AZCOM and CCOM, but by then I had been accepted elsewhere at a savings of $10k+ per year. I didn't even bother filling out CCOMs online interview date thing and cancelled my AZCOM interview- just because of the costs. No regrets here.

 

[samiuam]

Mr/Ms Womp,

I would ask you to go through CCOM's match list again. I think you may have counted wrong (there are certainly more than 2 Uro. surg matches); and how come you didn't include PM&R, which was especially popular in the CCOM match class?

 

[TeamZissou]

Not finalized yet. I can tell you that it was VERY VERY HEAVY FP/IM

20% FP, about 25% IM, then quite a bit of PM&R, OB, and Peds. My class wasn't very surgically oriented.

4 DO Urology
1 MD Urology
3 Gen Sx - 2 DO, one Military
3 DO Neurosurgery
2 DO Ortho
1 DO ENT
2 Derm

Apparently for some reason, not all the Urology spots showed up on the list that was released.