I'm just venting...

[alferec]

This is just a vent - I hope you all don't mind. I can't believe I came one point shy (0.7%) of an A in my refraction class. And I talked to my professor about it and he won't budge. I consistently performed with very high marks except for one anomaly, and he won't even consider that. I AM SO FRUSTRATED!!! And I can't get over it for some reason! I would rather have gotten a solid B instead of being right at the borderline - knowing that I came so close is what's ticking me off!!!

I think I have come to the conclusion that studying my butt off for the 1-2 more questions to get an A is just not worth the stress...it just wears me down . Do you think it's worth it?

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[prettygreeneyes]

Feel free to vent... that's what the forum is here for. I too am a little bitter at one of my professors, and he opted to not bump my grade up to the next level when I was 0.42% from the cut off. In the end, you have to realize that it doesn't matter. As the famous saying goes, C=OD. (Or in your case, a really high B=OD.) Do your best to learn the material for the patient, not for the grade, and you'll be fine.

Does this mean you finished first year yet? Happy dance over to my thread and post!

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I can top the both of you (med school, but first years are about the same). I missed one letter grade up by .04. I calculated it out and that value is less than 1 test question.

I'd have made a letter grade higher if I had gotten one single more question right. Needless to say I'm on my way to burn down the biochem building.

BTW, congrats on advisor PGE.

 

[eyestrain]

I don't know why people get so pissed about this kind of thing. You either earned the higher grade or you didn't. Sure it sucks to be close, but you knew how the grading system worked going into the class. Don't act like its the professors fault for not rolling over and giving you the higher grade. Would you really feel that much better if you got a grade you knew you didn't earn?

 

[KHE]

I don't know why people get so pissed about this kind of thing. You either earned the higher grade or you didn't. Sure it sucks to be close, but you knew how the grading system worked going into the class. Don't act like its the professors fault for not rolling over and giving you the higher grade. Would you really feel that much better if you got a grade you knew you didn't earn?

I agree with that. It's disappointing but having someone throw you a couple of points, or even a fraction of a point won't make you any happier because you'll always know.

** Confession Time **

When I was a junior in high school, I took a really hard math class. The teacher had a reputation for being quite the hard nosed SOB and top grades were rare in his class. In any event, we came to a point in the semester where he announced that the next unit we were to cover was incredibly difficult, we would all struggle, and in fact would all do poorly on the test. He admonished us to not feel bad about it, just get through it and we'll move on.

Sure enough, the unit was incredibly tough and filled with all kinds of crazy concepts that I'm sure even Issac Newtom himself scratched his head over. But I worked as hard as a could and actually did ALL of my homework for that unit.

WHen it came time to take the test, I did as best as I could and I left thinking I might have pulled of a stunning upset. A couple of days later we got the test back and I missed an A by ONE POINT. Reviewing through the test, there was one question that had a long complicated solution to it and the final answer was X = +1. I had written down X = -1. I had done everything correctly, but had just foolishly written down -1 instead of +1. Next to that incorrect answer was a -2 circled in red. (the pointes he had deducted)

I was so mad at myself for such a foolish mistake that I actually took my pencil, made a little slash mark through the - sign, turning it into a + sign and took the paper back up to my teacher and politely pointed out that he had erroneously marked that answer as wrong, when in fact I clearly had the correct answer.

He apologized and gave me the two points.

So in effect, I got an A on test that I DID NOT EARN. In my final grade for the semester, it made no difference. I would have ended up with the same final grade anyways. But I've always felt a small twinge of guilt knowing that I didn't earn that A.

So don't lose any sleep over it. It's disappointing, but going and begging for the points is lame and makes you sound like a whiner. And getting the extra point will not make you feel any better because you'll always know the truth.

There's an old poem called "The Man in the Glass." Look it up.

 

[prettygreeneyes]

Would you really feel that much better if you got a grade you knew you didn't earn?

Ummm... yes?

Sheesh. Lighten up. The thread's title is "I'm just venting". Perhaps you have a few things to get off your chest?

 

[prettygreeneyes]

BTW, congrats on advisor PGE.

Thanks!

 

[Ben Chudner]

I agree with that. It's disappointing but having someone throw you a couple of points, or even a fraction of a point won't make you any happier because you'll always know.

** Confession Time **

When I was a junior in high school, I took a really hard math class. The teacher had a reputation for being quite the hard nosed SOB and top grades were rare in his class. In any event, we came to a point in the semester where he announced that the next unit we were to cover was incredibly difficult, we would all struggle, and in fact would all do poorly on the test. He admonished us to not feel bad about it, just get through it and we'll move on.

Sure enough, the unit was incredibly tough and filled with all kinds of crazy concepts that I'm sure even Issac Newtom himself scratched his head over. But I worked as hard as a could and actually did ALL of my homework for that unit.

WHen it came time to take the test, I did as best as I could and I left thinking I might have pulled of a stunning upset. A couple of days later we got the test back and I missed an A by ONE POINT. Reviewing through the test, there was one question that had a long complicated solution to it and the final answer was X = +1. I had written down X = -1. I had done everything correctly, but had just foolishly written down -1 instead of +1. Next to that incorrect answer was a -2 circled in red. (the pointes he had deducted)

I was so mad at myself for such a foolish mistake that I actually took my pencil, made a little slash mark through the - sign, turning it into a + sign and took the paper back up to my teacher and politely pointed out that he had erroneously marked that answer as wrong, when in fact I clearly had the correct answer.

He apologized and gave me the two points.

So in effect, I got an A on test that I DID NOT EARN. In my final grade for the semester, it made no difference. I would have ended up with the same final grade anyways. But I've always felt a small twinge of guilt knowing that I didn't earn that A.

So don't lose any sleep over it. It's disappointing, but going and begging for the points is lame and makes you sound like a whiner. And getting the extra point will not make you feel any better because you'll always know the truth.

There's an old poem called "The Man in the Glass." Look it up.

So now we know the real reason you went to optometry school, Ken. You obviously are not smart enough to get accepted into medical school. A med student would not have made that stupid mistake because as we all know, MD's are at the top of the food chain.

 

[itek2OD]

just to make it a bit easier....herethe link for the poem.

http://www.rayhunt.com/man.htm

 

[Opii]

I guess it depends how you look at it.

I had one professor who was real hard nosed about not giving you the benefit of the doubt even if you had a 0.04. But he was this way with everyone equally. So it wouldn't hurt so bad.

But one time with another professor I was 2 points away from a letter grade and the person in front of me in line was also 2 points away from a letter grade and was complaining about the same thing I was about to complain about. He got the two points but I didn't. The reason was "he would lose his HPSP scholarship if he got below a certain GPA," since I pay out of pocket, I didn't get the 2 points!

When you know the professor does not apply the same rule to everyone equally; that is when it really BITES!

 

[IDr10]

I agree with that. It's disappointing but having someone throw you a couple of points, or even a fraction of a point won't make you any happier because you'll always know.

** Confession Time **

When I was a junior in high school, I took a really hard math class. The teacher had a reputation for being quite the hard nosed SOB and top grades were rare in his class. In any event, we came to a point in the semester where he announced that the next unit we were to cover was incredibly difficult, we would all struggle, and in fact would all do poorly on the test. He admonished us to not feel bad about it, just get through it and we'll move on.

Sure enough, the unit was incredibly tough and filled with all kinds of crazy concepts that I'm sure even Issac Newtom himself scratched his head over. But I worked as hard as a could and actually did ALL of my homework for that unit.

WHen it came time to take the test, I did as best as I could and I left thinking I might have pulled of a stunning upset. A couple of days later we got the test back and I missed an A by ONE POINT. Reviewing through the test, there was one question that had a long complicated solution to it and the final answer was X = +1. I had written down X = -1. I had done everything correctly, but had just foolishly written down -1 instead of +1. Next to that incorrect answer was a -2 circled in red. (the pointes he had deducted)

I was so mad at myself for such a foolish mistake that I actually took my pencil, made a little slash mark through the - sign, turning it into a + sign and took the paper back up to my teacher and politely pointed out that he had erroneously marked that answer as wrong, when in fact I clearly had the correct answer.

He apologized and gave me the two points.

So in effect, I got an A on test that I DID NOT EARN. In my final grade for the semester, it made no difference. I would have ended up with the same final grade anyways. But I've always felt a small twinge of guilt knowing that I didn't earn that A.

So don't lose any sleep over it. It's disappointing, but going and begging for the points is lame and makes you sound like a whiner. And getting the extra point will not make you feel any better because you'll always know the truth.

There's an old poem called "The Man in the Glass." Look it up.

funny story... my roommate tried this frosh year undergrad... the prof proceeded to pull out a PHOTOCOPY of her exam and was pretty close to expelling the poor girl... ouch.

 

[KHE]

funny story... my roommate tried this frosh year undergrad... the prof proceeded to pull out a PHOTOCOPY of her exam and was pretty close to expelling the poor girl... ouch.

My first day of undergraduate they flat out said that they scan all of the tests into a computer file and to not even THINK about trying any of that stuff.

Though I feel a small twinge of guilt about it, I don't beat myself up about it too much because every great man has made all kinds of mistakes, usually before they were great, or even a man. And more often than not, it was necissary to make those mistakes to become great.

The whole point of this post was to point out that you won't feel any better having someone give you those extra points, or even fractions of a point because YOU will always know.

 

[KHE]

So now we know the real reason you went to optometry school, Ken. You obviously are not smart enough to get accepted into medical school. An med student would not have made that stupid mistake because as we all know, MD's are at the top of the food chain.

Great work, Ben. You probably just let the dogs out.


When I was in 3rd year optometry there was a study that came out comparing rates of cheating among various health care careers. Cheating was defined to include traditional cheating on tests and things like that but also to falsifying patient charts or lying to attendings about various things. Interestingly enough, medical, optometry, dental, podiatry students all admitted to cheating at surprisingly similar rates which was about 25%. For nursing students it was slightly higher, around 30%

The funny sidebar to the article said that 75% of law students and journalism students admitted to cheating during their academic careers.

 

[cunikki]

hahah im sorry alferec!!! i know the teacher you are talking about and he also gave me a b in a class you will take in the fall by one point. and then the next quarter i got a b in a class by 0.04% (the original cutoff for an a was 93 but since no one got even close to that they moved it down randomly to 88.5% and i had an 88.46%) i know it sux but thats just the way it is. i used to care a lot (especially since i got a 4k scholarship last year for having all a's) but after getting some b's i realized it really doesnt matter at all and you will still be a doctor when all of this is over with....this quarter im not doing soo hot (i could possibly end up with all b's and one a) but i kinda just gave up... lots of things in life really arent that fair and my life is actually a lot happier now than it was when i was getting all a's... grades really really dont matter for much now... at least you are officially a second year!

 

[still_confused]

i just want all C's

 

[r_salis]

Once you get to the end of your fourth year, you'll not only forget the grades you've gotten over the years, but even some of the classes you took.

 

[IndianaOD]

Once you get to the end of your fourth year, you'll not only forget the grades you've gotten over the years, but even some of the classes you took.

True, unless you are going for a competitive residency. Then it gets ya one last time!

 

[qwopty99]

I came one point shy (0.7%) of an A in my refraction class.

i've got the mother of all similar stories.

i graduated optometry with a 79.9%. Had i gotten an 80, it would've been indicated on my diploma that i graduated on the Dean's list.

in my very last term, i knew i was at the border of the 79/80 cutoff. our final term had one mark to it (clinic). i got an 83 for the term. if i had gotten an 84, i would've gotten 80.0000000000% EXACTLY. this would've been an incredible combination of mathematics and luck, since over 4 years, we take a pile of courses, all worth different weights etc., and that i was in a position to get 80 on-the-dot. instead, i got an 83 and an overall of 79.9%

oh well. it would've been nice to get the diploma designation, but i got over it pretty quikcly.

 

[luckyfool]

i've got the mother of all similar stories.

i graduated optometry with a 79.9%. Had i gotten an 80, it would've been indicated on my diploma that i graduated on the Dean's list.

in my very last term, i knew i was at the border of the 79/80 cutoff. our final term had one mark to it (clinic). i got an 83 for the term. if i had gotten an 84, i would've gotten 80.0000000000% EXACTLY. this would've been an incredible combination of mathematics and luck, since over 4 years, we take a pile of courses, all worth different weights etc., and that i was in a position to get 80 on-the-dot. instead, i got an 83 and an overall of 79.9%

oh well. it would've been nice to get the diploma designation, but i got over it pretty quikcly.

If i were you, i would have definitely lost some sleep over this.

 

[qwopty99]

during the term, i was admittedly nervous. it was something i was aware of throughout clinic. i knew from previous terms, my clinic mark would be somewhere in the low-80 to 85 range.

by the end though, you know - it was really out of my hands. i did ask whether the 79.9 would round up to an 80 for Dean's list, but they told me no.

yeah - it did suck a bit. i'm glad it didn't bother me much, cause i knew if something equivalent happened in undergrad, or when i was younger, it probably would've been a big issue to me.

the "consolation" prize was that i graduated with a Doctor of Optometry diploma.

 

[Opii]

I would have thrown a temper tantrum! 79.9% IS practically 80% ... What's wrong with these people??? My 2 point story doesn't feel so bad anymore. I can get over it now, you guys have gone through much worse.

 

[alferec]

i've got the mother of all similar stories.

i graduated optometry with a 79.9%. Had i gotten an 80, it would've been indicated on my diploma that i graduated on the Dean's list.

in my very last term, i knew i was at the border of the 79/80 cutoff. our final term had one mark to it (clinic). i got an 83 for the term. if i had gotten an 84, i would've gotten 80.0000000000% EXACTLY. this would've been an incredible combination of mathematics and luck, since over 4 years, we take a pile of courses, all worth different weights etc., and that i was in a position to get 80 on-the-dot. instead, i got an 83 and an overall of 79.9%

oh well. it would've been nice to get the diploma designation, but i got over it pretty quikcly.

Oh man...don't worry, with my luck I'll probably be in the same boat when I graduate too.

But to everyone - thanks a lot for your comments, what would I do without you guys??? I feel so much better now...there are so many times that I feel like I'm the only one dealing with BS like this. I guess it's kinda nice to know that I'm not alone.

And KHE, I especially liked the poem you mentioned - it's very humbling and so true. I really liked the part about the "judgement you must pass" - it's not about others grading your abilities, it's how you feel about your own ability. It's my new favorite poem!!!

 

[Opii]

True, unless you are going for a competitive residency. Then it gets ya one last time!

Yes, It will come back to bit you in the hinie in residency application, transcripts come up in state application, transcripts come up in some jobs in federal government too, say if you wanted to apply to a VA or the National Guards or Reserves. I have even heard of a walmart manager who was asking for transcripts to hire! I don't know if all walmarts do it or only the more competitive ones. The FAAO and other Fellowship applications do ask for your GPA in your application for Candidancy.

So for all those who say " you are still an OD even if you were at the bottom of your class" - you well may be an OD but an unemployed one with no chance to move up with residencies nor fellowships. Seems to me the professors who do this know they are harming the students but don't care. Because that is just a bad joke, not nice at all, at that point what lesson are you trying to teach the student? It's just obnoxious. They don't care of the well being of that student, just of their power trip they get when they do it.

 

[IndianaOD]

A lot of (not all) private ODs will ask for GPA/transcipts. I don't know why someone would be satisfied with scraping by with the lowest grades. IMHO it shows a lack of dedication to your education.

 

[eyelectric]

i did ask whether the 79.9 would round up to an 80 for Dean's list, but they told me no.

IMHO...a person would be crazy not to ask. If the professor is willing to round it up, then great! If not, at least you tried everything you possibly could. I would personally feel worse not asking and always wondering whether or not they would have done it if I had asked.

 

[KHE]

A lot of (not all) private ODs will ask for GPA/transcipts. I don't know why someone would be satisfied with scraping by with the lowest grades. IMHO it shows a lack of dedication to your education.

I have worked for about a dozen private practice in my tenure in optometry and not a single one has ever asked for my GPA or my transcripts. I have never heard of any one of my collegues being asked for theirs either.

 

[IndianaOD]

I have worked for about a dozen private practice in my tenure in optometry and not a single one has ever asked for my GPA or my transcripts. I have never heard of any one of my collegues being asked for theirs either.

Several of my graduating classmates were asked. A couple even had to provide their official transcripts.

 

[cunikki]

maybe you do and maybe you dont get asked for grades but having a couple of b's is probably not going to make you any less worthy of an applicant. i would have to say that if you are looking for a job somewhere and someone cares more about grades than how you actually are as a dr or your personality and ability to interact wiht patients.. you probably dont want to work with them anyways

 

[prettygreeneyes]

A lot of (not all) private ODs will ask for GPA/transcipts. I don't know why someone would be satisfied with scraping by with the lowest grades. IMHO it shows a lack of dedication to your education.

I don't think that anyone has said that they are "satisfied with scraping by with the lowest grades." No one is setting out to get straight C's, nor do I believe that anyone who has posted on this thread has straight C's. While grades are important for residency, FAAO apps, and perhaps the rare doc that asks for your transcripts, what is significantly more important is that you are learning what you need to know to treat patients. When you are put into a class of students who all performed well in their undergraduate careers, combined with the sheer volume of material you are expected to learn in optometry school, you can not expect to walk out with a 4.0 without having to sacrifice a good portion of your life and perhaps a little of your sanity. If any of you have done that, my hat's off to you. If you haven't, I feel it is a bit of a leap to assume "a lack of dedication to your education".

 

[Opii]

.... If you haven't, I feel it is a bit of a leap to assume "a lack of dedication to your education".

Agreed, it's not even a matter of difficulty or lack of interest. Sometimes it's just stamina, running around the halls in clinic and getting your work done, studying for classes, then boards, looking for the professor to round up your grade, then laundry, then fixing the car, then calling the plummer because you have a broken sink, etc... it's tough. Nobody told me I had to be a marathon runner to finish optometry school

 

[KHE]

Several of my graduating classmates were asked. A couple even had to provide their official transcripts.

Graduates from Indiana must not be that bright if prospective employers feel that that they must verify performance via transcripts.

 

[IndianaOD]

Graduates from Indiana must not be that bright if prospective employers feel that that they must verify performance via transcripts.

umm sure.

 

[runner2354]

I've been practicing 20 years and I have never known of a commercial or private employer to ask an OD for their GPA or transcripts. Also, there was a published study that found an inverse relationship between GPA and future income. Go Figure.

 

[KHE]

I've been practicing 20 years and I have never known of a commercial or private employer to ask an OD for their GPA or transcripts. Also, there was a published study that found an inverse relationship between GPA and future income. Go Figure.

I can't speak to the inverse relationship between GPA and income but my experience has also been that I have NEVER heard of any employer, either commercial or private asking an applicant what their GPA was or asking for a copy of their transcript.

THroughout my tenure in optometry, I have not had to hire many ODs but the few times I have, I can assure you that optometry school GPA was not on my radar screen of things to discuss during an interview. I was looking for someone with a personality, who could relate to and interact with patients and who could make the clinic money. That matters a hell of a lot more than if they know every detail about serpiginous retinopathy or how to calibrate a space eikonometer.

The only time I would even consider asking someone for a copy of their transcript would be if they made a claim like "I graduated at the top of my class" or something like that in their resume.