IM-Where to apply with low comlex (445) and USMLE (197)

[Dannyboy676]

Hey SDN, trying to see if anyone has insight on good reach places to apply to in NY, CA, FL. Obviously, most university programs are out the door.
A lot of programs have at least a 200+ usmle cutoff so I am having trouble finding resources on where to apply this upcoming year.
I have been studying for step II and hope to improve scores by a lot but who knows. Trying to play it safe.

Mostly average first and second year grades
2 Publications

So far I've been getting good evals on rotations but somehow got stuck with a B in IM (preceptor rarely gives A's and it was my first rotation). A's in everything else so far. One strong letter, working on another but will be from surgery chief at my hospital.

Looking for a couple good places that I can audition at in the summer/fall so they can see a side of me that is not just a number.

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[cluelessmedstudent411]

Are you looking to do ACGME match? Because that seems out of reach.

You should be looking at purely AOA IM programs.

 

[deleted392989]

To be honest, I would bet all your chips on the AOA match. With your USMLE score, you're going to get filtered out by a LOT of programs... Step 2 is not going to help with that.
You need to audition at strong AOA IM programs and do well. Choose carefully since you can't rotate at all of them due to limited time. In-house fellowships are a huge plus as well.
Take COMLEX 2 early (like end of 3rd year). That way, your score is back during audition season and before applications go out. A good COMLEX 2 score will earn you interviews by itself and compensate for the low COMLEX 1 score.

 

[Dannyboy676]

Any ACGME programs?
Of course I will be mostly be focusing on the AOA match. Currently trying to compile places to audition at in NY/CA as these are auditions are one of the only ways to get interviews for me.

 

[ToKingdomCome]

Any ACGME programs?
Of course I will be mostly be focusing on the AOA match. Currently trying to compile places to audition at in NY/CA as these are auditions are one of the only ways to get interviews for me.

I personally think that you could match ACGME IM if you're literally willing to go anywhere in any location. With that said you'd better off be matching AOA where you could have your location of choosing and match at a program that would probably be "better"

 

[Dannyboy676]

Well, I think I'll be participating in both matches but I guess I shouldn't be wasting precious audition time at ACGME programs.

 

[W19]

You might have a shot at ACGME community IM programs...

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I agree to put all your chips on AOA if you want to match. Don't forget to do some backup FM just in case.

 

[Please_Stand_By]

Not trying to sound harsh or anything, but did you take any UWSA or NBMEs to predict the outcomes?

 

[235009]

Any ACGME programs?
Of course I will be mostly be focusing on the AOA match. Currently trying to compile places to audition at in NY/CA as these are auditions are one of the only ways to get interviews for me.

You should forget about the ACGME match. Take what you can get in the AOA match. I'm not sure you realize how much of a disadvantage you're at. Why would an ACGME program interview a DO who barely passed step 1 instead of any of the multitude of IMGs who are also applying?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

You should forget about the ACGME match. Take what you can get in the AOA match. I'm not sure you realize how much of a disadvantage you're at. Why would an ACGME program interview a DO who barely passed step 1 instead of any of the multitude of IMGs who are also applying?

I mean aren't there an abundance of ACGME IM residencies that are utterly uncompetitive and take ppl with board failures?

 

[Rekt]

I mean aren't there an abundance of ACGME IM residencies that are utterly uncompetitive and take ppl with board failures?

You can only see so far out to the horizon from the ivory towers.

 

[235009]

I mean aren't there an abundance of ACGME IM residencies that are utterly uncompetitive and take ppl with board failures?

This is certainly true for US MDs but until the ACGME's takeover is fully implemented it would be HIGHLY inadvisable for any DO with a 197 on step 1 to forego the AOA match. There really is no reason for such programs to choose a DO with these scores over an IMG with better scores.

 

[jw3600]

Dude a 197 isn't technically failing but it might as well be. And that comlex is like what bottom quartile? Take whatever you get in AOA and thank your stars.

 

[W19]

I thought I was in trouble after getting my step1 score (215-220), but SDN reassured me that IM is wide open to any US student (MD or DO) with no board/class failure(s) and/or professionalism issues... Does that change within 5-6 months?

 

[hallowmann]

OP, you need to apply AOA and go through that match. 445 is not great, but it actually probably looks better than 197. The thing is that if you apply AOA, no programs are going to see your USMLE scores (at least that's how it is now). That even opens up doors for dual-accredited programs through the AOA match, because you can apply through the DO side of ERAS and they'll never see your USMLE.

Obviously you know that taking the USMLE was a mistake. You may be from a school that required all students to take it, but if not taking it without being sufficiently prepared was not the best idea. What's done is done, so no point worrying about it now. You should be able to match AOA IM if you apply broadly enough and maybe do some auditions.

I thought I was in trouble after getting my step1 score (215-220), but SDN reassured me that IM is wide open to any US student (MD or DO) with no board/class failure(s) and/or professionalism issues... Does that change within 5-6 months?

A 215-220 is vastly different than a <200. Most cutoffs for a lot of the not-so-competitive specialties are 200, 210, 220.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I thought I was in trouble after getting my step1 score (215-220), but SDN reassured me that IM is wide open to any US student (MD or DO) with no board/class failure(s) and/or professionalism issues... Does that change within 5-6 months?

Probably still is.

 

[W19]

A 215-220 is vastly different than a <200. Most cutoffs for a lot of the not-so-competitive specialties are 200, 210, 220.

What if you only get a 'B' in IM?

 

[hallowmann]

What if you only get a 'B' in IM?

You'll be fine homie. You're a US MD. You'll be able to land a solid program.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

OP, you need to apply AOA and go through that match. 445 is not great, but it actually probably looks better than 197. The thing is that if you apply AOA, no programs are going to see your USMLE scores (at least that's how it is now). That even opens up doors for dual-accredited programs through the AOA match, because you can apply through the DO side of ERAS and they'll never see your USMLE.

Obviously you know that taking the USMLE was a mistake. You may be from a school that required all students to take it, but if not taking it without being sufficiently prepared was not the best idea. What's done is done, so no point worrying about it now. You should be able to match AOA IM if you apply broadly enough and maybe do some auditions.

If a program is dual accredited won't they most likely go through the ACGME match?

From the program's stand point they get a good pick when having MD students in the mix.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

If a program is dual accredited won't they most likely go through the ACGME match?

From the program's stand point they get a good pick when having MD students in the mix.

I think a lot of the dually accredited programs go through both matches and have a certain amount of spots they try to fill in each match.

 

[hallowmann]

If a program is dual accredited won't they most likely go through the ACGME match?

From the program's stand point they get a good pick when having MD students in the mix.

Dual-accredited programs are already in both matches. Most I've encountered plan to stay in both matches until the end.

It's really in their best interest. They can choose how many spots to put in each match pretty much a month before the AOA match. Any spots that don't fill can then go into the NRMP match. Basically if they have any DOs they want, they have incentive to be in the AOA match.

 

[Dannyboy676]

Not trying to sound harsh or anything, but did you take any UWSA or NBMEs to predict the outcomes?

yes, they were about 210...I guess I got the lower end of the stick.. in retrospect, it was a waste of money and time.

 

[NghtSky04]

Seemed like noone really answered his question? Any decent AOA IM programs that might be in range with someone with a low COMLEX score? Asking mainly because I'm curious as well.

 

[ortnakas]

Seemed like noone really answered his question? Any decent AOA IM programs that might be in range with someone with a low COMLEX score? Asking mainly because I'm curious as well.

I have no idea how competitive they are, but several to many programs didn't fill their IM this year in the AOA match. I assume some are solid, some are sketchy, but at any rate, the fact that there are openings means there's definitely hope for OP! California and the New York City area might be slightly tougher, but if you're not super geographically picky you should have plenty of options.

A smattering include (caveat: I know between little to nothing about these programs, I'm not endorsing them or insulting them by including them on my list)
Palmetto General (FL) - 8/18 unfilled
Florida Hospital Orlando (FL)- 3/8 unfilled
Community Memorial Ventura (CA) - 2/5 unfilled
West Anaheim Medical Center (CA) - 3/8 unfilled
Arnot Ogden Elmira (NY) - 3/9 unfilled
Inspira Health Network (NJ) - 4/8 unfilled

Full AOA match results can be found here: http://osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/Education/students/match-program/Pages/match-results.aspx

 

[Dannyboy676]

I have no idea how competitive they are, but several to many programs didn't fill their IM this year in the AOA match. I assume some are solid, some are sketchy, but at any rate, the fact that there are openings means there's definitely hope for OP! California and the New York City area might be slightly tougher, but if you're not super geographically picky you should have plenty of options.

A smattering include (caveat: I know between little to nothing about these programs, I'm not endorsing them or insulting them by including them on my list)
Palmetto General (FL) - 8/18 unfilled
Florida Hospital Orlando (FL)- 3/8 unfilled
Community Memorial Ventura (CA) - 2/5 unfilled
West Anaheim Medical Center (CA) - 3/8 unfilled
Arnot Ogden Elmira (NY) - 3/9 unfilled
Inspira Health Network (NJ) - 4/8 unfilled

Full AOA match results can be found here: http://osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/Education/students/match-program/Pages/match-results.aspx

Wow, that's insane.
4/6 of those are good enough for me.
Community memorial especially, looks like a nice program, unfortunately they did not allow me to do a rotation there next year.

 

[explorertx]

I was surprised to see Palmetto IM on the list, they have done well matching all their spots in the last couple of years. They will fill all their spots by next week after the NMRP SOAP. Same goes for the Orlando FM program.

On another note. The trend of matching all the spots in Florida programs was completely different from previous years. Programs like Wellington IM, Manatee IM and FM, Lakeside FM, and Westchester FM who usually have plenty of spots (if not all) after the match ended up doing really well this year. Programs like Larkin (who matched surprisingly well in FM (6/6) and IM (5/6) last year given the previous matches) and palmetto (16/18) who dill well in the past did not fair well. In addition, Broward IM and Mt. Sinai IM and EM are now in the NRMP, that's 20 IM spots and 5 EM spots lost


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[QualityProcess]

there are students at my DO school who got similar scores and matched acgme IM this year. When you're in the bottom quartile, all medical students are equally worthless. If you want acgme and not severely strapped for cash, apply both aoa and acgme community IM and see how many acgme interviews you get. If you dont get enough, stay in the aoa match. If you do get enough, re-evaluate the risk-benefit and make your decision.

 

[NghtSky04]

there are students at my DO school who got similar scores and matched acgme IM this year. When you're in the bottom quartile, all medical students are equally worthless. If you want acgme and not severely strapped for cash, apply both aoa and acgme community IM and see how many acgme interviews you get. If you dont get enough, stay in the aoa match. If you do get enough, re-evaluate the risk-benefit and make your decision.

Oh wow, I didn't know that. How about those that didn't take the USMLE?

I love your analogy about worthlessness.

 

[QualityProcess]

Oh wow, I didn't know that. How about those that didn't take the USMLE?

I love your analogy about worthlessness.

the analogy is adapted from full metal jacket haha, not mine.

also had at least one classmate match in IM who did not take USMLE. Im sure there are many others, I just dont know them personally. Every DO student should take one of the NBMEs and assess for themselves if they are prepared to take on an extra (and quite different) exam.

The only reason to not take step 1 is if you have evidence you will do poorly.

 

[ToKingdomCome]

Well, I think I'll be participating in both matches but I guess I shouldn't be wasting precious audition time at ACGME programs.

I'm not even sure ACGME IM programs really care too much about auditions? I'm not applying IM so I can't say for certain. I do know that the general feel in the DO world is that auditions matter/can help. Like you said, I'd probably just set up AOA rotations for that matter.