MD & DO Importance of Grades

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LondonVibes

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For the first two years of medical school at a graded campus, how important are letter grades (e.g. A vs C) and how do they ultimately impact residency applications?
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they are largely unimportant...clinical grades will matter more. Obviously an A is nicer than C but I really can't force preclinical years significantly holding you back in residency apps if you have good clinical grades and solid step scores (step 2 score now, i guess).

Edit: I guess it's all relative for what specialty you plan on going in to as well. More competitive, they matter more, less competitive, they matter less
 
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LondonVibes said:
For the first two years of medical school at a graded campus, how important are letter grades (e.g. A vs C) and how do they ultimately impact residency applications?
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It's a muddled answer

On one side, I think everyone agrees clinical grades and board scores are more important than preclinical grades. I'm sure the Program Director Surveys everyone keeps linking would say the same thing.

That being said...class rank is pretty important and preclinical grades are often incorporated into class rank. Even if the clinical grades are weighted higher (as an example at my school it was M1-25%, M2-25%, M3-50%) they're still a not-insignificant part of your class rank and if you're going for top tier fields/residencies, class rank/AOA (essentially class rank with some wrinkles) are weighted heavily.
 
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I would agree with Redpancreas. I think the "unimportance" of preclinical grades is actually promoted a bit too much. At my school, they factored significantly into our class rank, which goes onto the MSPE and categorizes you relative to your peers. Now with step 1 being p/f, preclinical grades may be even more important.
 
I was bottom quartile of my class, my below average preclinical grades never came up in any of my residency interviews. Did average on boards, had exceptional LORs and evals. Matched to my #1 at a stellar program.
 
bigindian4891 said:
I was bottom quartile of my class, my below average preclinical grades never came up in any of my residency interviews. Did average on boards, had exceptional LORs and evals. Matched to my #1 at a stellar program.
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People always say "my #1" but that doesn't give much information when you think deeper. Is this a competitive specialty? was your #1 at a highly ranked program?

I think as board scores change, class rank is going to get a bump.
 
7331poas said:
People always say "my #1" but that doesn't give much information when you think deeper. Is this a competitive specialty? was your #1 at a highly ranked program?

I think as board scores change, class rank is going to get a bump.
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Exactly. "Top choice" doesn't mean jack if your top choice is some malignant program in North Dakota. Obviously rankings are not everything, but there must be some way to stratify programs when giving advice.
 
CommyØ said:
Exactly. "Top choice" doesn't mean jack if your top choice is some malignant program in North Dakota. Obviously rankings are not everything, but there must be some way to stratify programs when giving advice.
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Yeah top choice is vague which is why match lists are difficult to interpret. But if OP's aiming for a top tier academic program, the grades would begin to matter (but mainly because of AOA which does matter a lot).
 
bigindian4891 said:
I was bottom quartile of my class, my below average preclinical grades never came up in any of my residency interviews. Did average on boards, had exceptional LORs and evals. Matched to my #1 at a stellar program.
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sounds like you graduated from a T10 school if your #1 was indeed stellar as in Top Tier.
 
onlyonestudent said:
Exactly. My #1 in my preferred specialty would be laughed at by anyone from a mid-tier school but would be a long-shot dream for a DO. My friend matched his #1 in an easy specialty (to be with family), most would rank it last and I'd rather leave the state than rank that program at all.
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That's the important thing, matching in one's top choice is a big accomplishment
 
LondonVibes said:
For the first two years of medical school at a graded campus, how important are letter grades (e.g. A vs C) and how do they ultimately impact residency applications?
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With the asinine elimination of the numerical Step 1, your pre-clinical grades will matter more. But if you ace 2CK then your Cs won't matter as much.
 
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a lot of schools have gone p/f for the first two years. I enjoyed this because it really created a good environment where everyone was more than happy to help out (i.e. share study guides etc).
 
Redpancreas said:
It's a muddled answer

On one side, I think everyone agrees clinical grades and board scores are more important than preclinical grades. I'm sure the Program Director Surveys everyone keeps linking would say the same thing.

That being said...class rank is pretty important and preclinical grades are often incorporated into class rank. Even if the clinical grades are weighted higher (as an example at my school it was M1-25%, M2-25%, M3-50%) they're still a not-insignificant part of your class rank and if you're going for top tier fields/residencies, class rank/AOA (essentially class rank with some wrinkles) are weighted heavily.
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I agree with this. My school told us they didn't rank, since we are P/F, then they sprung on us that they do put our quartiles in our MSPE and that our quartiles are 100% based on our performance in preclinical.
 
I have like a 2.6-2.7, I'll let you know how next year goes lol.

My school has a rough preclinical education. Averages were typically below 80% for exams

It didn't stop me from doing well on shelves, getting good evals and LORs, good on step 1, etc.

If you struggle don't beat yourself up. Just try to make up for it some other way.

Haven't taken step 2 yet
 
The people who tell you you don't need to worry about preclinical grades are the same folks gunning for plastics/derm/ent/ortho/urology who are scoring at the top of the class, tread wisely
 
This is asked repetitively, every year and the answer is still the same. Unless you're shooting for T20 programs in the most competitive specialties you're better off getting as much as you can from classwork and spending the bulk of your time on board studying and trying to build the most well rounded application possible (DO SOME RESEARCH). I say this as someone who was bottom quartile pre clinical who had 20+ surgery interviews. Don't fail any courses, get some pubs, grind for good board scores, and figure out what makes you the happiest both personally and professionally
 
SurgDoc95 said:
This is asked repetitively, every year and the answer is still the same. Unless you're shooting for T20 programs in the most competitive specialties you're better off getting as much as you can from classwork and spending the bulk of your time on board studying and trying to build the most well rounded application possible (DO SOME RESEARCH). I say this as someone who was bottom quartile pre clinical who had 20+ surgery interviews. Don't fail any courses, get some pubs, grind for good board scores, and figure out what makes you the happiest both personally and professionally
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This is great to hear, as someone who is in the bottom quartile but has all the other things you mentioned.
 
Steve_Zissou said:
This is great to hear, as someone who is in the bottom quartile but has all the other things you mentioned.
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Just make sure you apply broadly. One of the biggest mistakes I saw this past application cycle was people, despite 100% virtual interview which blows my mind, under applying and limiting their geographic range to a small portion of the country. If you really want a specialty go all in for it and part of that means applying to areas you might not otherwise want to be, unless you have stupid high scores of course. Even then you can turn down II's when you have enough that you feel comfortable. Trust me you do not want to go through the application/interview season twice so leave no stone unturned is my take!
 
SurgDoc95 said:
This is asked repetitively, every year and the answer is still the same. Unless you're shooting for T20 programs in the most competitive specialties you're better off getting as much as you can from classwork and spending the bulk of your time on board studying and trying to build the most well rounded application possible (DO SOME RESEARCH). I say this as someone who was bottom quartile pre clinical who had 20+ surgery interviews. Don't fail any courses, get some pubs, grind for good board scores, and figure out what makes you the happiest both personally and professionally
Click to expand...
What if I hate/have absolutely zero interest in doing any research?
 
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