Importance of Shadowing

[RafMin]

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Hello All,

I am planning on applying to medical school this year and wanted to know the importance of shadowing as I also have to study for the MCAT and only have about 4 months.

Do you guys think it is important to have shadowed for medical school admissions? Do they heavily weigh on this?

If I have a good MCAT score and GPA do you think I will be fine without shadowing?

Thank you so much

 

[music2doc]

Hello All,

I am planning on applying to medical school this year and wanted to know the importance of shadowing as I also have to study for the MCAT and only have about 4 months.

Do you guys think it is important to have shadowed for medical school admissions? Do they heavily weigh on this?

If I have a good MCAT score and GPA do you think I will be fine without shadowing?

Thank you so much

Generally, 40-100 hrs of shadowing is sufficient. You will also need clinical experience (at least 200 hrs is sufficient for most schools, a few do expect quite a bit more). Research and community service/volunteering are also helpful for many schools.

No, a good MCAT or GPA will not compensate for a lack of clinical experience (i.e., active work, such as hospital/clinic volunteering, ED Tech, EMS, CNA, etc.) or exposure (i.e., shadowing).

 

[EBTrailRunner]

It's not necessary to do shadowing, but it's expected that you have some kind of exposure to clinical medicine. How else are adcoms to know that you've tested your interest in medicine? I myself opted to do a clinical internship program where I got to rotate through different hospital departments volunteering. I did this about 4 hours a week for a few years. Most medical schools I've interacted with seem to think that's sufficient.

 

[music2doc]

It's not necessary to do shadowing, but it's expected that you have some kind of exposure to clinical medicine. How else are adcoms to know that you've tested your interest in medicine? I myself opted to do a clinical internship program where I got to rotate through different hospital departments volunteering. I did this about 4 hours a week for a few years. Most medical schools I've interacted with seem to think that's sufficient.

True. Shadowing isn't as necessary if you have a large amount of other types of clinical experience. However, it is imperative that you have some sort of clinical experience.

 

[bassvp]

Do it for yourself! If not, you may end up like me with a degree that you figured out you didn't really want!

 

[Tsiana]

Hello All,

I am planning on applying to medical school this year and wanted to know the importance of shadowing as I also have to study for the MCAT and only have about 4 months.

Do you guys think it is important to have shadowed for medical school admissions? Do they heavily weigh on this?

If I have a good MCAT score and GPA do you think I will be fine without shadowing?

Thank you so much

4 months seems more than enough time to study for the MCAT, even if you are working full time. Even if you have a job or something, squeezing in shadowing is not really that tough - most people I shadowed, I only followed for 1 or 2 mornings each. That's enough time to get a superficial feel for their job. You're really just furniture in the clinical setting anyways, and you won't really be expected to understand much of whats being said or done.

Shadowing/clinical experience is important but don't be intimidated. I would not say that 200+ hours of this is necessary. Just do enough so that it is apparent that you understand what you're getting into. I have friends who just shadowed casually (30 hours total, with a few different physicians) and who's closest extracurricular to medicine was working with the red cross (is that really clinical? I don't know). They got into top 20 med schools.

Cover your bases: GPA, MCAT, some extracurriculars, some leadership hopefully, and some clinically relevant experience, and you're pretty set to go UNLESS, perhaps, you really need to compensate for one part of your application with another (e.g. not recommended of course but it happens. For example, you have a lower GPA or personally disappointing MCAT that you feel can be compensated for if you have a great deal of clinical experience).

 

[slowbutsteady]

Some people find it unpleasant to be around sick people. They need to see that you have been around sick people, and still want to be a doctor.

 

[LizzyM]

Would you plunk down $250,000 for a house you'd be forced to live in for 40 years without ever having touring the property? And if the house turns out to be a mistake and you want to move, the house has no resale value -- you still owe $250,000 or whatever portion of $250,000 you haven't paid off when you decide to vacate the property.

If so, go ahead and apply without shadowing/clinical experience and describe your thinking to any adcom that asks.

 

[EnergyDrink]

Pro-Tip: When LizzyM replies to a thread the verdict is usually settled.

 

[RafMin]

Thanks for your replies everyone. So shadowing can make up for the clinical experience component right?

 

[dmf2682]

I wonder what a leaky basement is in LizzyM's analogy. ..

 

[EnergyDrink]

Thanks for your replies everyone. So shadowing can make up for the clinical experience component right?

Not really, they're different. You need to show that you've interacted with patients, since I hear doctors have to talk to them sometimes.

I think SDN puts a lot of emphasis on clinical and shadowing, when in reality I'm sure people get in without doing it all that much.

But if you're looking at a top program, you better have some.

 

[mvenus929]

I am planning on applying to medical school this year and wanted to know the importance of shadowing as I also have to study for the MCAT and only have about 4 months.

I don't see why studying for the MCAT precludes shadowing. It's a minimal commitment... we're talking 4 hours a week (one morning/afternoon). Surely you can find that chunk of time in your schedule to get a better idea of what the profession is actually like before you enter it.

 

[Praefectus]

I wonder what a leaky basement is in LizzyM's analogy. ..

I'd assume it would be passing out at the sight of blood haha

 

[notbobtrustme]

Would you plunk down $250,000 for a house you'd be forced to live in for 40 years without ever having touring the property? And if the house turns out to be a mistake and you want to move, the house has no resale value -- you still owe $250,000 or whatever portion of $250,000 you haven't paid off when you decide to vacate the property.

If so, go ahead and apply without shadowing/clinical experience and describe your thinking to any adcom that asks.

While it makes sense, the rest of the world produces doctors just fine and they don't require even a 10th of the "requirements" that the US does. We have no trouble granting licenses to Indian doctors who's only requirement to getting into medical school is scoring high on the entrance exam or bribing/knowing the admissions officers.

 

[Chrome19]

While it makes sense, the rest of the world produces doctors just fine and they don't require even a 10th of the "requirements" that the US does. We have no trouble granting licenses to Indian doctors who's only requirement to getting into medical school is scoring high on the entrance exam or bribing/knowing the admissions officers.

In complete agreement.

Most of my experience in medicine was in high school, and with a brief stint (2 weeks) in my freshman year. I didn't list any of these on my activities, but just provided hints on my personal statement. I frankly believe most of all this shadowing and clinical volunteer hours are fluff. I received interviews and got accepted.

However, a prospective medical student should ensure they are able to stomach the sight of human blood and guts. That said, I don't see how volunteering a million hours in the emergency department vs 1 /2 weeks shadowing a physician metrically demonstrates and legitimizes one's interest in medicine anymore than a 2-week volunteer stint.

 

[LizzyM]

While it makes sense, the rest of the world produces doctors just fine and they don't require even a 10th of the "requirements" that the US does. We have no trouble granting licenses to Indian doctors who's only requirement to getting into medical school is scoring high on the entrance exam or bribing/knowing the admissions officers.

Do Indians graduate from medical school with $250,000 in debt?

 

[notbobtrustme]

Do Indians graduate from medical school with $250,000 in debt?

What does debt have to do with shadowing?

 

[LizzyM]

What does debt have to do with shadowing?

Are you obtuse? A student enrolling in a US medical school is, in all likelihood, borrowing all or most of the cost of attendance. With interest it can easily approach $250,000 that must be paid back. Now what if, after acquiring a 250K in debt, you find out that the only reasonable career for someone with that kind of debt (making the assumption that you are not a candidate to win America's Got Talent) is to practice medicine. But what if you absolutely hate the smell of sick patients, the sarcastic nurses, the whining and unreasonable family members, the futility of so much of what goes into the practice of medicine in America, the uncertainty of diagnosis, the constant threat of lawsuits, the misery of patients who get bad news, the tussles with insurance companies that wage a war of attrition with patients and providers, and on and on and on. Those golden handcuffs start to chaff after 3 or 4 or 5 years of practice and there is no way out.

 

[manpuper]

It's not necessary to do shadowing

 

[notbobtrustme]

Are you obtuse? A student enrolling in a US medical school is, in all likelihood, borrowing all or most of the cost of attendance. With interest it can easily approach $250,000 that must be paid back. Now what if, after acquiring a 250K in debt, you find out that the only reasonable career for someone with that kind of debt (making the assumption that you are not a candidate to win America's Got Talent) is to practice medicine. But what if you absolutely hate the smell of sick patients, the sarcastic nurses, the whining and unreasonable family members, the futility of so much of what goes into the practice of medicine in America, the uncertainty of diagnosis, the constant threat of lawsuits, the misery of patients who get bad news, the tussles with insurance companies that wage a war of attrition with patients and providers, and on and on and on. Those golden handcuffs start to chaff after 3 or 4 or 5 years of practice and there is no way out.

And how does shadowing expose you to all that? Most shadowing experiences involves hanging back and saying "I see" or "that's interesting". You don't get exposure to any of the things you've posted. In fact, your post is far more realistic of what entails being a physician than 90% of all shadowing opportunities. Shadowing is a check-box activity because adcoms expect to see it, t, in no way, prepares anyone at all for the realities of what being a physician is.

 

[SunsFun]

And how does shadowing expose you to all that? Most shadowing experiences involves hanging back and saying "I see" or "that's interesting". You don't get exposure to any of the things you've posted. In fact, your post is far more realistic of what entails being a physician than 90% of all shadowing opportunities. Shadowing is a check-box activity because adcoms expect to see it, t, in no way, prepares anyone at all for the realities of what being a physician is.

I would also add that changing careers is very uncommon and almost impossible in places like India even if you don't have $250,000 debt burden. Thus, you're also becoming a physician for life with zero prior exposure to it.

Since moving to America I've noticed that in almost any field you go to and try to get an acceptance you're expected to go beyond your normal responsibilities and do more than just study and pass tests. American schools seem to be very interested in trying to determine the character of the applicant by looking at the activities done in past rather than just accepting the most qualified people. I personally haven't seen any research that shows people who shadow or volunteer or join clubs will be more successful physicians. Maybe there is some but I haven't found any. I just think this notion of admitting "unique", "well-rounded", "exposed to medicine" and "committed to community service" is actually admitting the best future physicians is somewhat taken for granted.

 

[Chrome19]

Are you obtuse? A student enrolling in a US medical school is, in all likelihood, borrowing all or most of the cost of attendance. With interest it can easily approach $250,000 that must be paid back. Now what if, after acquiring a 250K in debt, you find out that the only reasonable career for someone with that kind of debt (making the assumption that you are not a candidate to win America's Got Talent) is to practice medicine. But what if you absolutely hate the smell of sick patients, the sarcastic nurses, the whining and unreasonable family members, the futility of so much of what goes into the practice of medicine in America, the uncertainty of diagnosis, the constant threat of lawsuits, the misery of patients who get bad news, the tussles with insurance companies that wage a war of attrition with patients and providers, and on and on and on. Those golden handcuffs start to chaff after 3 or 4 or 5 years of practice and there is no way out.

He scored a 35+ MCAT, I think; and that's a very good chance he isn't obtuse.

Just as research experience doesn't expose prospective MD/PhD students to the political and social realities of what it takes to be a physician-scientist as hoped for by the NIH and the programs that admit them, the vast majority of shadowing experiences don't expose students to all these political realities you cite. There's a discussion in the MD/PhD forum on the significant attrition of MD/PhD students from the research track after taxpayers and universities have invested ~$500,000 in their education. Nobody is complaining about this “waste” of money and talent.

Philosophically, the purpose of shadowing should be to ensure a student is able to stomach patients. Finito! I don't see why someone has to accumulate xyz hours to demonstrate this. In high school, I shadowed physicians in a foreign country and was able to watch surgeries, interact with patients and their families extensively, saw patients die, and got to do things American healthcare bureaucracies and legalities wouldn't let me. These bureaucratic roadblocks will also inhibit how far premeds experience these political/social issues you mention.

When I started college, I was eager to continue my clinical experience, so I volunteered at a US hospital in my freshman year. While it was nice, it was frankly a waste of my time. There were others premeds doing the same thing and the general response was: "We have to do this and accumulate xyz hours to get into medical school." This attitude was repulsive and I left. The vast majority of premeds who are aware of these social issues familiarize themselves by reading and talking to people. I don't see how wheeling patients up and down waiting rooms and wards exposes one to these matters. I suspect only folks such as EMTs, nurses, and their like really experience the nitty-gritty of medicine.

Cheers 🙂

 

[deep122]

I don't think shadowing is absolutely necessary, however I think it is beneficial overall. It will give you things to write about in your applications and things to talk about in interviews. I actually wasn't planning on shadowing, but my job involves working around doctors and it has been a really great experience and has cemented my decision to apply to medical school.

 

[chiddler]

My friend got in a decent school without shadowing.

Somewhere in Ohio...I forgot the name. Or was it Utah. A state that started with a vowel anyway.

 

[Tots]

Why are so many people vehemently against shadowing?

Excessive shadowing may not be worth it but I think a little shadowing can go a long way. I have shadowed 3 physicians and all of the experiences have been valuable. I used the opportunity to shadow physicians that were in situations drastically different than my prior clinical experience. Since I had extensive experience in a free clinic, watching the physicians deal with insurance/billing and the such was completely new. Also one day I am pretty sure I met more drup reps than patients.....Anyways my point was that I think shadowing can be a great opportunity to make sure you know what you are getting into.

In response to notbobtrustme everything LizzyM listed is something you can definitely observe when shadowing or learn by simply talking to the physician between patients.

 

[LizzyM]

He scored a 35+ MCAT, I think; and that's a very good chance he isn't obtuse.

Just as research experience doesn't expose prospective MD/PhD students to the political and social realities of what it takes to be a physician-scientist as hoped for by the NIH and the programs that admit them, the vast majority of shadowing experiences don't expose students to all these political realities you cite. There's a discussion in the MD/PhD forum on the significant attrition of MD/PhD students from the research track after taxpayers and universities have invested ~$500,000 in their education. Nobody is complaining about this “waste” of money and talent.

Then we don't travel in the same circles because I hear a lot of complaining in that regard. Interesting observation from the leaders of the MSTP program: many of the students who leave research behind and do "just medicine" are those who had not shadowed or volunteered before coming to medical school; they got in on the strength of their research experiences alone. But, when they did their clinical rotations, they found that they loved clinical care so much that they wanted to do only that and not research. Early exposure to clinical care might result in fewer MSTP students who don't go on to careers as physicians-scientists.

 

[Chrome19]

Then we don't travel in the same circles because I hear a lot of complaining in that regard. Interesting observation from the leaders of the MSTP program: many of the students who leave research behind and do "just medicine" are those who had not shadowed or volunteered before coming to medical school; they got in on the strength of their research experiences alone. But, when they did their clinical rotations, they found that they loved clinical care so much that they wanted to do only that and not research. Early exposure to clinical care might result in fewer MSTP students who don't go on to careers as physicians-scientists.

If these people are gravitating towards clinical medicine anyways, doesn't this weaken the argument that clinical experience should be a hard-and-fast requirement? I mean, these people are enjoying clinical care without ANY/or minimal clinically-related experience prior to medical school.

Don't get me wrong, I think students should at least briefly experience the hospital and medical practice to decide whether they can pursue medicine; but I'm playing devil's advocate partly because I dislike the robotic and pretentious nature of the application process. But it seems that's the order of life these days ...

By the way, those MSTP directors are being lied to, or they are making correlative arguments that don't imply causation. The reasons I get from MD/PhD students for their loss of interest in research are completely different, and anyone who has immersed him/herself deeply in the research world will understand.

 

[EnergyDrink]

Then we don't travel in the same circles because I hear a lot of complaining in that regard. Interesting observation from the leaders of the MSTP program: many of the students who leave research behind and do "just medicine" are those who had not shadowed or volunteered before coming to medical school; they got in on the strength of their research experiences alone. But, when they did their clinical rotations, they found that they loved clinical care so much that they wanted to do only that and not research. Early exposure to clinical care might result in fewer MSTP students who don't go on to careers as physicians-scientists.

Do you think better research experience can make up for a lack of clinical exposure if the applicant wants to pursue clinical research (but not via MSTP)?

Anyone feel free to chime in on this.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Do you think better research experience can make up for a lack of clinical exposure if the applicant wants to pursue clinical research (but not via MSTP)?

Anyone feel free to chime in on this.

To an extent, but not the extent of a MSTP applicant.

 

[LizzyM]

I recognize that some MSTP applicants may be playing the admissions committe by coming in with great research experience (what gets you in the door) with every intention of trading a few years in the lab for a free ride followed by a career in clinical medicine (Profit!).

I've been hard line to require both clinical exposure and research of the MSTP candidates.

I don't know what the answer is with regard to creating physician-scientists but what we are doing isn't working well. Likewise, many PhD grads are jumping ship and seeking careers away from the bench. Are our methods of research funding counter-productive? I don't have any answers.

 

[Sesom]

Are you obtuse? A student enrolling in a US medical school is, in all likelihood, borrowing all or most of the cost of attendance. With interest it can easily approach $250,000 that must be paid back. Now what if, after acquiring a 250K in debt, you find out that the only reasonable career for someone with that kind of debt (making the assumption that you are not a candidate to win America's Got Talent) is to practice medicine. But what if you absolutely hate the smell of sick patients, the sarcastic nurses, the whining and unreasonable family members, the futility of so much of what goes into the practice of medicine in America, the uncertainty of diagnosis, the constant threat of lawsuits, the misery of patients who get bad news, the tussles with insurance companies that wage a war of attrition with patients and providers, and on and on and on. Those golden handcuffs start to chaff after 3 or 4 or 5 years of practice and there is no way out.

lol @ obtuse

 

[IMSingular]

If you are at the margin shadowing is very important. If you have 4.0 GPA and 36 MCAT it may not be as important. Then again it will depend on which school you want to matriculate.

 

[mvenus929]

We have no trouble granting licenses to Indian doctors who's only requirement to getting into medical school is scoring high on the entrance exam or bribing/knowing the admissions officers.

Indian doctors have to jump through a whole nother set of hoops in residency application processes.

If you are at the margin shadowing is very important. If you have 4.0 GPA and 36 MCAT it may not be as important. Then again it will depend on which school you want to matriculate.

Eh.. I had nearly a 4.0 and 36 MCAT and was rejected from schools because I didn't have clinical experience (one school I reapplied to and subsequently was accepted to flat out told me as much on my second interview). Shadowing isn't the key. Clinical experience is. If you can get that, and articulate that you know the difficulties of being a physician, then you should be okay.

 

[Mountaineer12]

I think it depends on the physician. I shadowed one for awhile that didn't really acknowledge me and at the end of that experience I thought shadowing was just something I had to do I get in.

However, I've been shadowing another doctor recently and she really loves teaching people so I've genuinely enjoyed it. So yeah, shadowing can be awesome depending on the doctor.

 

[IMSingular]

..
Eh.. I had nearly a 4.0 and 36 MCAT and was rejected from schools because I didn't have clinical experience (one school I reapplied to and subsequently was accepted to flat out told me as much on my second interview). Shadowing isn't the key. Clinical experience is. If you can get that, and articulate that you know the difficulties of being a physician, then you should be okay.

Sorry I wasn't clear. I intended to say that shadowing may not be necessary though clinical volunteering would be required.

 

[RafMin]

Thanks for your valuable feedback everyone.

So I take it clinical experience is very important. How exactly can i get that? Do you mean I can just inquire about any hospitals volunteer programs?

Can you tell what exactly I need to do please to get that vital clinical experience you are mentioning?

Thanks a lot!

 

[At0mic]

Thanks for your valuable feedback everyone.

So I take it clinical experience is very important. How exactly can i get that? Do you mean I can just inquire about any hospitals volunteer programs?

Can you tell what exactly I need to do please to get that vital clinical experience you are mentioning?

Thanks a lot!

I volunteer in a large hospital tied to my UG institution, but with something like that there is a large risk of not getting clinical exposure and just doing scut. In my section I do get a lot of exposure, but one of my friends in cardio always said that it was like a study hall for him.

What may be more beneficial is volunteering in a small/free clinic. You'll feel way more useful, while getting the clinical exposure you need.

 

[LizzyM]

Thanks for your valuable feedback everyone.

So I take it clinical experience is very important. How exactly can i get that? Do you mean I can just inquire about any hospitals volunteer programs?

Can you tell what exactly I need to do please to get that vital clinical experience you are mentioning?

Thanks a lot!

From your past posts, I know that you are planning to take the MCAT this year and apply later this summer/fall.

Do not apply this year if you have not been engaged in any experiences that have brought you face-to-face with the sick or injured. Hospital volunteering that have you speaking with patients and otherwise interacting with them can be obtained at some hospitals; contact the "volunteer office". Some outpatients clinics that serve the uninsured are good places to get experience. You can get experience as an employee during a gap year. It is also possible to find physicians who will let you shadow them for a day or more to see what their day is like and the things that they do and the various settings in which they practice. Try contacting a physician you know through your social network or the doc who takes care of elderly members of your family.

 

[Docsted]

Trust me, when interviews hit, you will stumble over some questions if you haven't shadowed a doctor. The hands on experience of seeing a physician perform surgery or listen to a patient is worth its weight in gold when it comes to experiences to talk about. I will add that secondary essays are much easier to write if you have some experience watching a doctor that you can talk elaborate on.

 

[moothecow]

LizzyM (or anyone else that knows the answer), is it ok if shadowing is done in one chunk? I personally am not trying to check off the box, rather I just now have the time for it (if we can't count watching surgeries on youtube as clinical experience hahaha). I have heard both sides of the story about this. One side says shadowing shouldn't be done in a chunk because it looks like you are just trying to mark off another item on the checklist. The other says it's fine to do it in a chunk if that's when it's convenient-the more important thing is to actually get the experience. I don't want to come off as uninterested and manipulative to an Adcom member.

 

[LizzyM]

LizzyM (or anyone else that knows the answer), is it ok if shadowing is done in one chunk? I personally am not trying to check off the box, rather I just now have the time for it (if we can't count watching surgeries on youtube as clinical experience hahaha). I have heard both sides of the story about this. One side says shadowing shouldn't be done in a chunk because it looks like you are just trying to mark off another item on the checklist. The other says it's fine to do it in a chunk if that's when it's convenient-the more important thing is to actually get the experience. I don't want to come off as uninterested and manipulative to an Adcom member.

One chunk is cool. I've seen it done as full time for week with a family doctor in a rural area (where it wouldn't make sense to drag it out what with the long distance to travel).

I watched a youtube video of an ortho surgery I was scheduled for. I said to the anesthesiologist, "I saw this on Youtube; it took like 5 minutes." and she gave me a look 😕

 

[Freesia88]

While it makes sense, the rest of the world produces doctors just fine and they don't require even a 10th of the "requirements" that the US does. We have no trouble granting licenses to Indian doctors who's only requirement to getting into medical school is scoring high on the entrance exam or bribing/knowing the admissions officers.

The flip side to this is that the US can boast of having some of the best medical practitioners in the world precisely because aspiring medical students are made to jump through all these hoops to show to some extent that they have an idea what they are getting into and are committed enough to going after it.

To the OP, as pretty much everyone else (including an Adcom member ) has said, shadowing helps way more than it hurts, and seeing as a good number of your fellowapplicants will have done it, it might be a good idea to look into it.

🙂 I just thought about this. If I do eventually get a medical degree from here, one of my plans for the future is to go back and teach at the newly opened medical school at my alma mater. If ever I rose to a position of enough influence, I will likely push to make shadowing and clinical volunteering an explicit requirement for prospective medical students

 

[LizzyM]

While it makes sense, the rest of the world produces doctors just fine and they don't require even a 10th of the "requirements" that the US does. We have no trouble granting licenses to Indian doctors who's only requirement to getting into medical school is scoring high on the entrance exam or bribing/knowing the admissions officers.

But they are made to jump through hoops when they get here including an exam, 3 years of residency training (or longer), and, for some, a year or more of unpaid research before the residency.

 

[neuro nephrons]

forget the numbers.........get something out of it......I've learned a hell of a lot more about life watching DRs tell people they have a few months to live than I ever will anywhere else. Learn things that you can talk about in interviews....but most of all, become a better human being from it. Re-affirm why you want to be in this profession.

 

[notbobtrustme]

But they are made to jump through hoops when they get here including an exam, 3 years of residency training (or longer), and, for some, a year or more of unpaid research before the residency.

That's no different than anyone else already in the system. We are talking about getting into the system and the US is the only country in the world where we have a bunch of garbage BS for students to do before they can get into the system.

Shadowing/volunteering/ECs in general are just fluff.

 

[circulus vitios]

That's no different than anyone else already in the system. We are talking about getting into the system and the US is the only country in the world where we have a bunch of garbage BS for students to do before they can get into the system.

Shadowing/volunteering/ECs in general are just fluff.

I can understand the importance of shadowing for a few afternoons, and the importance of research if you're applying MD/PhD or to schools that emphasize research. Volunteering and the other ECs are just pointless.

 

[LizzyM]

That's no different than anyone else already in the system. We are talking about getting into the system and the US is the only country in the world where we have a bunch of garbage BS for students to do before they can get into the system.

Shadowing/volunteering/ECs in general are just fluff.

But without them your application may be too thin. 😀

 

[Claudin]

I don't understand why some people think shadowing is fluff and pointless??? I shadowed a few doctors in China and I had a great time. In Canada, we don't even have the opportunity to shadow unless we have connections

 

[mimelim]

That's no different than anyone else already in the system. We are talking about getting into the system and the US is the only country in the world where we have a bunch of garbage BS for students to do before they can get into the system.

Shadowing/volunteering/ECs in general are just fluff.

I think I can appreciate someone's worthiness and likelyhood of success in medicine from their shadowing/volunteering/ECs than their GPA. You can explain having a ****ty GPA, you can't explain being a ****ty person.