In Need of Serious Advice

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Robin-jay said:
I don't know an undergraduate student could ever obtain the position "lab coordinator", the more I think about, the less plausible it sounds. The only way I can see any position like this being realistic is if the lab had no graduate students. Not sure I would really think its suspicious or not if I saw the application. I guess spinning it to UG lab coordinate would be more ideal.

If I was interviewing, I would probably ask what the roles of his lab coordinator position were.

Part of me feels for the OP, but part of me is ticked off because that's a position that is well earned and he lied about having it....
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I said UG lab coordinator to be specific.
 
candbgirl said:
He wasn’t the team leader.on a few occasions some grad students asked him to show someone how to do something . OP do you have a letter from your PI? We know it won’t say you were the lab coordinator so will that be an issue?

So basically your ECs were subpar so you “exaggerated” to make them look better?
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I do have a letter from this PI
 
cjosexxx said:
I do have a letter from this PI
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Does the PI state your position in this letter (I know you can't answer this cause you haven't see this letter)? If your position is stated in this letter then you MUST withdraw. This discrepancy can be lethal....
 
premedalt said:
Well crap, now there's the issue of there being discrepancies between your description and the PIs letter
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As you can see this shows more than a lack of character and morals... it shows poor judgment. Knowing you have a letter from your PI why would you still LIE about what you did in the lab and more-so your position?
 
As @Mya&Me has suggested in a post above, I would recommend asking your PI if you can be assigned some responsibilities to at least earn a loosely defined title of lab coordinator.


Same with the other activities you mentioned in volunteering.

As of now I feel like thats your best bet.
 
As a general PSA, I am currently at an all-time-low. I hate myself for what I did and I will do whatever I can to rectify it. I feel numb at the moment. I do not think that this predicament translates to lying to patients or being a horrible doctor. I still have compassion. I still want to help others as cliché as it sounds.
 
cjosexxx said:
As a general PSA, I am currently at an all-time-low. I hate myself for what I did and I will do whatever I can to rectify it. I feel numb at the moment. I do not think that this predicament translates to lying to patients or being a horrible doctor. I still have compassion. I still want to help others as cliché as it sounds.
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You should go to reconciliation this week.
 
cjosexxx said:
As a general PSA, I am currently at an all-time-low. I hate myself for what I did and I will do whatever I can to rectify it. I feel numb at the moment. I do not think that this predicament translates to lying to patients or being a horrible doctor. I still have compassion. I still want to help others as cliché as it sounds.
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I don't mean to sound rude. I am just awakening you to the truth.
 
Robin-jay said:
But don't to be too harsh on this fellow. He lied and feels bad about it. I know an incredible amount of medical school students that lied and didn't care one iota.
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I really don't like this argument. Justifying one instance of lying by saying other people do it does not suddenly mitigate anything. The fact is that OP lied on his app multiple times. That he regretted it later is fine, but he still did it. Additionally, it is hard to really know if he regrets it because he knew lying on his app was wrong and shouldn't have let himself do it in the first place or if he regrets it because he knows it's wrong and he's afraid he'll get caught. Being regretful because it might come back to bite you is not the same as being remorseful because you know you did something bad and want to take steps to never make that mistake again.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
I really don't like this argument. Justifying one instance of lying by saying other people do it does not suddenly mitigate anything. The fact is that OP lied on his app multiple times. That he regretted it later is fine, but he still did it. Additionally, it is hard to really know if he regrets it because he knew lying on his app was wrong and shouldn't have let himself do it in the first place or if he regrets it because he knows it's wrong and he's afraid he'll get caught. Being regretful because it might come back to bite you is not the same as being remorseful because you know you did something bad and want to take steps to never make that mistake again.
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Thank you for stating this much more concisely than I did. 100% agree.
 
cjosexxx said:
As a general PSA, I am currently at an all-time-low. I hate myself for what I did and I will do whatever I can to rectify it. I feel numb at the moment. I do not think that this predicament translates to lying to patients or being a horrible doctor. I still have compassion. I still want to help others as cliché as it sounds.
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If you do end up withdrawing, make some more drastic changes to your ECs than just omitting your current exaggerations, that way hopefully they don't notice the difference in the details in your descriptions between this year and next year.

Also, I'm not sure if only the schools where you sent secondaries to this cycle would compare your applications from this and next year. If so, applying next year to only schools where you didn't send secondaries to should get rid of any potential problems. Maybe @gyngyn , @LizzyM, @Goro, or one of the other adcoms on here knows more about this.
 
puahate said:
You should go to reconciliation this week.
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I agree that the OP could try to rectify the situation so that the application and the positions are no longer exaggerated. But that is difficult.

Also, is that sentence grammatically correct? If so, I haven't been using the term "reconciliation" to its full potential!
 
Robin-jay said:
I agree that the OP could try to rectify the situation so that the application and the positions are no longer exaggerated. But that is difficult.

Also, is that sentence grammatically correct? If so, I haven't been using the term "reconciliation" to its full potential!
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I was talking about the practice of confession (Sacrament of Penance) in the catholic church. Most people call it reconciliation (specifically with God) or just confession.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
I really don't like this argument. Justifying one instance of lying by saying other people do it does not suddenly mitigate anything. The fact is that OP lied on his app multiple times. That he regretted it later is fine, but he still did it. Additionally, it is hard to really know if he regrets it because he knew lying on his app was wrong and shouldn't have let himself do it in the first place or if he regrets it because he knows it's wrong and he's afraid he'll get caught. Being regretful because it might come back to bite you is not the same as being remorseful because you know you did something bad and want to take steps to never make that mistake again.
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I agree that ethics are important here. I had to be 100% truthful on my application, and expect my competition to do the same, whether thats for medical school admissions, residency, etc.

However, I was mostly slamming the scum bags I knew that lied on their application, were constant cheaters, and were overall terrible people that managed to get into medical school. They didn't feel bad about it all, and still don't.

Ok, lets go physiological for a second.

Psychopaths (genetic) and sociopaths (environment) with a type A personality that allows them to be CEO's, Doctors, Lawyers, etc. don't have some of the natural anxiety issues we face. When they are stressed, their emotions can go unchanged.

This allows many scumbags to lie on their application, and then not feel bad about, and then not stress over it during their 4 years in medical school.
 
puahate said:
I was talking about the practice of confession (Sacrament of Penance) in the catholic church. Most people call it reconciliation (specifically with God) or just confession.
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Oh ok. Because "reconsiliation" in the terms I was using is literally: "reconciliation is the process of ensuring that two sets of records are in agreement."

Which would make a lot of sense here!
 
So...all of you on your moral high horse have never ever lied in your life? Maybe you didn’t do it on something like a medical school application but some of you are making it seem like lying = you are a terrible person and could never be a doctor! Because if your height is 6’0 on a dating app but you’re actually 5’10 how could a patient ever trust that person as a doctor! Please...

I’m not saying the OP was justified in what s/he did or that it wasn’t wrong. My point is, everyone has lied before in life, one bad judgement does not make you a bad person nor dictate your ability to make a good or bad or just mediocre doctor.
 
Robin-jay said:
I agree that ethics are important here. I had to be 100% truthful on my application, and expect my competition to do the same, whether thats for medical school admissions, residency, etc.

However, I was mostly slamming the scum bags I knew that lied on their application, were constant cheaters, and were overall terrible people that managed to get into medical school. They didn't feel bad about it all, and still don't.

Ok, lets go physiological for a second.

Psychopaths (genetic) and sociopaths (environment) with a type A personality that allows them to be CEO's, Doctors, Lawyers, etc. don't have some of the natural anxiety issues we face. When they are stressed, their emotions can go unchanged.

This allows many scumbags to lie on their application, and then not feel bad about, and then not stress over it during their 4 years in medical school.
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And they're the same people who hurt patients and then lie about it. But the doctor who hurts someone because he cut corners is still dangerous even if he feels bad about it. I'm not saying OP should stay away from medicine, but he definitely needs to evaluate his own principles.
 
DrElliotReid said:
So...all of you on your moral high horse have never ever lied in your life? Maybe you didn’t do it on something like a medical school application but some of you are making it seem like lying = you are a terrible person and could never be a doctor! Because if your height is 6’0 on a dating app but you’re actually 5’10 how could a patient ever trust that person as a doctor! Please...

I’m not saying the OP was justified in what s/he did or that it wasn’t wrong. My point is, everyone has lied before in life, one bad judgement does not make you a bad person nor dictate your ability to make a good or bad or just mediocre doctor.
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I have been involved in healthcare for over 10 years and have never once lied about anything related to a patient or healthcare. I have also never lied on an application for anything, especially not something as serious as a medical school application. You are committing multiple logical fallacies here, but essentially, the fact that people tell small lies (e.g., embellishing their height by an inch or two on tinder) is not comparable to straight up lying about your position and responsibilities on a medical school application. Now, if you wrote that you were a woman on tinder when you were actually a man, that would be more on par.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
I have been involved in healthcare for over 10 years and have never once lied about anything related to a patient or healthcare. I have also never lied on an application for anything, especially not something as serious as a medical school application. You are committing multiple logical fallacies here, but essentially, the fact that people tell small lies (e.g., embellishing their height by an inch or two on tinder) is not comparable to straight up lying about your position and responsibilities on a medical school application. Now, if you wrote that you were a woman on tinder when you were actually a man, that would be more on par.
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Maybe you should read my post again. I never said anything about it being ok to lie in healthcare or to patients. I said in life. If you really haven’t ever lied in life about anything whatsoever good for you, you’re prbably like the .0001%. Still doesn’t automatically make you a bad person or a person with bad moral character. I believe people learn and grow from their mistakes and don’t make blanket statements about their character from one act.
 
DrElliotReid said:
Maybe you should read my post again. I never said anything about it being ok to lie in healthcare or to patients. I said in life. If you really haven’t ever lied in life about anything whatsoever good for you, you’re prbably like the .0001%. Still doesn’t automatically make you a bad person or a person with bad moral character. I believe people learn and grow from their mistakes and don’t make blanket statements about their character from one act.
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I think you should reread mine, because I responded to exactly what you said. My point was that lying on tinder about your height is not in the same ballpark as lying on your application to medical school. Rounding up to 6 feet is not even remotely comparable to completely fabricating a job position for yourself or claiming you did 3 duties at your volunteer position that you never did. They just aren’t comparable, your tu quoque notwithstanding.
 
I feel like this may have been blown way out of proportion..how much would these lies even affect the application? It won't put him over the top or make him seem like a perfect candidate. Maybe a little boost but nothing to really set him apart from the rest of candidates. He lied about a couple of extra activities he did as a volunteer. How does that change anything at all? Would adcoms really view these as something special? Doubtful. And would that really put him above other candidates? Absolutely not.

As for the coordinator part, it's a little tough. If asked, you could just say you labeled as that because you coordinated the rest of the volunteers, not necessarily the entire lab. Or as others said, see if you can start actually doing the duties that a lab coordinator does.

So many people lie on apps and it goes unnoticed (not justifying lying here) but I'm just saying the only reason this is a big deal now is because it's eating him up and he decided to post here. I feel like these additions could very well just go unnoticed as lies because it isn't something super crazy/surprising. Also everyone here claiming he shouldn't be a doctor and is bashing his morals/character, shut up. You guys aren't perfect, neither is (s)he. The poor guy(or girl) has made a mistake and is willing to lose A LOT to reverse it. Majority of people who screw up like that wouldn't go that far, so please, once again, get off your high horse because I'm sure you've made mistakes before.

Of course at the end of the day it's up to you, but there are a lot of negatives to withdrawing your app (and that's besides just the money part). If you truly believe that you wouldn't be able to live with yourself then withdraw. Other than that, try and actually do what you put on your application, or just hope for the best.

Good luck!
 
cjosexxx said:
Im assuming the 1/10 is alluding to my score if I was trolling. I am not. How will reapplying affect my future app?
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If you bail now it shouldn’t affect it at all. We have lots of applicants, if one of the pulls the plug and turns up next cycle it’s difficult to notice, much less care about. Life happens, and there are about a million possible explanations for withdrawal.
 
Med Ed said:
If you bail now it shouldn’t affect it at all. We have lots of applicants, if one of the pulls the plug and turns up next cycle it’s difficult to notice, much less care about. Life happens, and there are about a million possible explanations for withdrawal.
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Wouldn't the ADCOMs pull up both applications side by side and try to find any changes though?
 
Robin-jay said:
Wouldn't the ADCOMs pull up both applications side by side and try to find any changes though?
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The work required to do that for every reapplication would be prohibitive, and largely pointless. If someone makes it to committee in successive years we will ask in broad terms what they have done to change/improve. Some minor changes to EC language are very, very unlikely to get noticed.
 
DrElliotReid said:
So...all of you on your moral high horse have never ever lied in your life? Maybe you didn’t do it on something like a medical school application but some of you are making it seem like lying = you are a terrible person and could never be a doctor! Because if your height is 6’0 on a dating app but you’re actually 5’10 how could a patient ever trust that person as a doctor! Please...

I’m not saying the OP was justified in what s/he did or that it wasn’t wrong. My point is, everyone has lied before in life, one bad judgement does not make you a bad person nor dictate your ability to make a good or bad or just mediocre doctor.
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What you are saying makes no sense.... OP didn't lie about height on the medical school application... OP lied about a lab POSITION and has a letter from the PI. Height and a lab position are not comparable arguments. Medical school interviews are for judging morality and ethics. If OP purposefully lied on a medical school app, I would expect the same to occur during the interview so that OP could match what was lied about in the application. Please stop downsizing this issue.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
I think you should reread mine, because I responded to exactly what you said. My point was that lying on tinder about your height is not in the same ballpark as lying on your application to medical school. Rounding up to 6 feet is not even remotely comparable to completely fabricating a job position for yourself or claiming you did 3 duties at your volunteer position that you never did. They just aren’t comparable, your tu quoque notwithstanding.
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100% Agree.
 
FreeRadicals said:
What you are saying makes no sense.... OP didn't lie about height on the medical school application... OP lied about a lab POSITION and has a letter from the PI. Height and a lab position are not comparable arguments. Medical school interviews are for judging morality and ethics. If OP purposefully lied on a medical school app, I would expect the same to occur during the interview so that OP could match what was lied about in the application. Please stop downsizing this issue.
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I didn't downsize anything. I may have compared The Holiday Inn to the Ritz Carlton but in the end they're both hotels.

I never said what they did was ok. I was merely illustrating that people make mistakes and people lie but because we're not all perfect human beings, we shouldn't judge others so harshly and make blanket statements about people's character from one incident. I don't think it's fair to extrapolate like that. Oh they lied in an application, that means they'll lie to a patient, they're going to lie about everything and we should never give them a chance ever again because they're already a terrible person. If that's how we all thought no one would get second chances. I'm clearly not going to change your mind, but that's not how I feel and I have the right to my opinion as well.
 
DrElliotReid said:
I didn't downsize anything. I may have compared The Holiday Inn to the Ritz Carlton but in the end they're both hotels.

I never said what they did was ok. I was merely illustrating that people make mistakes and people lie but because we're not all perfect human beings, we shouldn't judge others so harshly and make blanket statements about people's character from one incident. I don't think it's fair to extrapolate like that. Oh they lied in an application, that means they'll lie to a patient, they're going to lie about everything and we should never give them a chance ever again because they're already a terrible person. If that's how we all thought no one would get second chances. I'm clearly not going to change your mind, but that's not how I feel and I have the right to my opinion as well.
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Did you quote me and then delete it? It's saying you quoted me, but I don't see it.
 
this makes me wonder if non-christians apply to schools like loma linda and lie.

and OP this sounds like a little too much exaggeration. it's one thing to hyperbolize situations for dramatic effect, but making up roles entirely is unethical. withdraw.
 
DrElliotReid said:
I didn't downsize anything. I may have compared The Holiday Inn to the Ritz Carlton but in the end they're both hotels.

I never said what they did was ok. I was merely illustrating that people make mistakes and people lie but because we're not all perfect human beings, we shouldn't judge others so harshly and make blanket statements about people's character from one incident. I don't think it's fair to extrapolate like that. Oh they lied in an application, that means they'll lie to a patient, they're going to lie about everything and we should never give them a chance ever again because they're already a terrible person. If that's how we all thought no one would get second chances. I'm clearly not going to change your mind, but that's not how I feel and I have the right to my opinion as well.
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We aren't comparing Holiday Inn to Ritz. Since you love analogies so much here's one for you... how about comparing an ant to a dinosaur. Cause that's what OP did when fabricating his/her role.
 
dude you're fine! Every job title has a professional name to it.
 
Powerlifter95 said:
this makes me wonder if non-christians apply to schools like loma linda and lie.

and OP this sounds like a little too much exaggeration. it's one thing to hyperbolize situations for dramatic effect, but making up roles entirely is unethical. withdraw.
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All mission-based schools will expect you to walk the walk and not merely talk the talk.
 
OP, kudos to you for deciding to withdraw and reapply. It is unlikely someone in an admissions department will have the time or patience to comb through every sentence in your applications from both this cycle and the next. If your application is currently a competitive one however, someone may wonder why you chose to withdraw this cycle. If you are asked about it, I expect that you will own up and accept any consequences, and not risk lying about your reasons and go through medical school in constant fear of being found out & kicked out. Good luck to you.
 
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