In Need of Serious Advice

[cjosexxx]

Hello,

I exaggerated my role in several of my ECs and now the guilt has become too heavy to handle. I regretted it almost immediately after submitted my app. Pressured by friends, family, and more importantly, myself, I continued on and so far have filled out about 18 secondaries. I know what I did was wrong and I hate myself for it. Anyway, I am now considering withdrawing my application due to the fear of being found out and blacklisted, so my question is, will a withdrawal hurt my chances next cycle? I want to be honest next time around....I am willing to take a $3000 hit in wasted app fees to show this. If I just completely withdraw my primary and secondaries, how would that look? What are the ramifications? I made this account today for obvious reasons but I am definitely not a troll. Thank you all so much.

Best

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[Goro]

A withdrawal from the process now will NOT hurt your chances next cycle. Kudos to you for your decision to withdraw.

 

[premedalt]

A withdrawal from the process now will NOT hurt your chances next cycle. Kudos to you for your decision to withdraw.

Would the schools OP already sent secondaries to compare the primary app for this year and next year when OP reapplies? If so, would any discrepancies between activity hours or descriptions be a red flag?

 

[Goro]

Would the schools OP already sent secondaries to compare the primary app for this year and next year when OP reapplies? If so, would any discrepancies between activity hours or descriptions be a red flag?

That might happen

 

[premedalt]

OP, if you don't mind answering, how much did you exaggerate?

 

[cjosexxx]

I stated that I possessed a larger role in my research and was a coordinator in the lab when I was not. I also said that I did multiple things in a separate volunteering position when in reality I only did one or two of those things. Sorry for the vague details, I am now super paranoid.

 

[cjosexxx]

I stated that I possessed a larger role in my research and was a coordinator in the lab when I was not. I also said that I did multiple things in a separate volunteering position when in reality I only did one or two of those things. Sorry for the vague details, I am now super paranoid.

If anything, it would be the same description minus a few details.

 

[cjosexxx]

Any thoughts? @gyngyn @LizzyM @Catalystik

 

[cjosexxx]

Wait, so to clarify, you exaggerated on your primary. You then felt guilty. You then proceeded to fill out secondaries. Did you continue exaggerate for relevant secondary questions?

Many people overstate their accomplishments on job interviiews and applications (e.g. claiming you designed this huge charity event, when really you were on a board for designing it and it took 2 hours of your time vs the main coordinator who put in 40), though that does not make it right. Did you overstate/allude to more or did you manifestly lie? In the case above, saying you helped in designing and coordinating an event isn’t untrue but definitely isn’t truly reflecting your contribution. Some interviews will ballbust your activities and will be able to hound this out. Also, when you claimed you were a coordinator, did you actually perform coordinator responsibilities? Personally, having held many different jobs, I wouldn’t say that a job title always encaptures your work responsibilites, so if you are legitimately describing what you did, and titling that appropriately with Coordinator, I would understand.

Ethically, if you lied, you should withdraw your application.

I was sure to not mention any of the exaggerations in the secondary applications. To clarify, there is no lab coordinator position in my lab. I mentioned this role in the last sentence of the description and no where else. In total, there are perhaps 2-3 sentences in my entire application that were misleading.

 

[cjosexxx]

Did you perform duties typically of a Lab Coordinator in other labs? Giving yourself a title is a wishy-washy area, but with a concise description, sometimes you have to give the overview through a recognizable position with an expectable Job Description.

Also, I’m sure you’ve learned, but leave the misleading car salesman tactics on the lot. However, this comes down to, did you lie? Did you say that you did things that verifiably you did not do?

I’m ethically in a tough place here because if ou really did lie, I think you should withdraw. However, I can understand the sales pitch that you need to give to really sell yourself to schools. That often includes playing up otherwise minor roles and beautifying activities. But at the same time, I think neuroticism sometimes lends to overthinking and overmagnification. Plus you might be having a little but of imposter syndrome going on here too...

I mentioned this position in passing in the last sentence, it was not the title of the experience or anything. However, the most I ever did was show some of the new members how to do certain things since I have been there a while. At the volunteering place, I did volunteer, but I only did one of the four tasks stated in the application.

 

[Medic741]

I was sure to not mention any of the exaggerations in the secondary applications. To clarify, there is no lab coordinator position in my lab. I mentioned this role in the last sentence of the description and no where else. In total, there are perhaps 2-3 sentences in my entire application that were misleading.

You should seriously ask yourself if you have the moral fiber for medicine. If it’s an honest mistake spend some time soul searching and find activities that will help you grow as a person.

Find full time employment, be honest and do a good job.

 

[cjosexxx]

You should seriously ask yourself if you have the moral fiber for medicine. If it’s an honest mistake spend some time soul searching and find activities that will help you grow as a person.

Find full time employment, be honest and do a good job.

I honestly think this whole endeavor has made me want to go into medicine even more. I want to do work that I am proud of every day. I do not want to live in a lie but a world that I created on my own. If this does not impact my future app, I would love to take the year off and work towards something I can really be proud of. Thank you.

 

[cjosexxx]

If I’m going to be 100% real and you were my friend, I’d tell you that you were dumb but to just let it go. This is way to high risk/low reward to be doing this. Mya and I be hardcore rolling our eyes at you, as friendos.

Also, are any of these positions, esp the volunteer one ongoing? If so, make sure in the next year you live up to what you are saying(!!!), then you haven’t lied. This is ideally the simplest solution.

I appreciate all of your responses and I thank you for giving me honest advice despite my wrongdoings. I am indeed remorseful.

 

[MyOdyssey]

There’s a difference between saying you held the coordinator position in your lab and saying you coordinated volunteers in your lab.

You did coordinate volunteers in your lab. You didn’t hold the lab coordinator position because no such position existed.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Did you say you coordinated people in the lab, or did you say you were the Lab Coordinator? The first isn’t a lie, the second one is.

Also, is it possible to start doing the things at the volunteer position that you said you do?

 

[cjosexxx]

Did you say you coordinated people in the lab, or did you say you were the Lab Coordinator? The first isn’t a lie, the second one is.

Also, is it possible to start doing the things at the volunteer position that you said you do?

I said I was the Lab Coordinator, which was indeed a lie. Perhaps I can take on the roles of the separate volunteering position, but I do not know for sure.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I said I was the Lab Coordinator, which was indeed a lie. Perhaps I can take on the roles of the separate volunteering position, but I do not know for sure.

Ah. Well it sounds like you should withdraw. At least you’ve realized your error. I’m wondering what made you do that in the first place.

 

[Alex1234*]

You started by saying you exaggerated your role in "several" of your ECs, and then said only 2 or 3 sentences in your whole application were exaggerated....I'm not really sure about the extent of your lying but ultimately this is up to you. It doesn't sound like you want to withdraw, and nobody is going to validate you lying on your application, so I think you just need to deal with the guilt if you don't withdraw.

However, it doesn't sound like you completely made up activities or hours. Most people play up their roles regarding ECs, so if that's what's happening here I wouldn't worry too much.

 

[cjosexxx]

You started by saying you exaggerated your role in "several" of your ECs, and then said only 2 or 3 sentences in your whole application were exaggerated....I'm not really sure about the extent of your lying but ultimately this is up to you. It doesn't sound like you want to withdraw, and nobody is going to validate you lying on your application, so I think you just need to deal with the guilt if you don't withdraw.

However, it doesn't sound like you completely made up activities or hours. Most people play up their roles regarding ECs, so if that's what's happening here I wouldn't worry too much.

It was two-three sentences across two-three ECs, and of course I do not want to withdrawal and lose thousands.

 

[Alex1234*]

"I want to be honest next time around....I am willing to take a $3000 hit in wasted app fees to show this."
"If this does not impact my future app, I would love to take the year off and work towards something I can really be proud of. Thank you."

Well it sounded like you were seriously thinking about withdrawing...but honestly it seems like you just wanted validation to continue with your exaggerated application.

To be honest, though, it doesn't sound like you exaggerated/lied very much. The "Lab Coordinator" position is definitely a lie, but at least your responsibilities seem to be in line with the title...I would also try and figure out how to complete the other volunteer responsibilities.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

You started by saying you exaggerated your role in "several" of your ECs, and then said only 2 or 3 sentences in your whole application were exaggerated....I'm not really sure about the extent of your lying but ultimately this is up to you. It doesn't sound like you want to withdraw, and nobody is going to validate you lying on your application, so I think you just need to deal with the guilt if you don't withdraw.

However, it doesn't sound like you completely made up activities or hours. Most people play up their roles regarding ECs, so if that's what's happening here I wouldn't worry too much.

He said he did 3 things in his volunteer position that he absolutely did not do, and he made up a position in his lab that doesn’t exist. That is not simple playing up of an EC.

 

[cjosexxx]

He said he did 3 things in his volunteer position that he absolutely did not do, and he made up a position in his lab that doesn’t exist. That is not simple playing up of an EC.

I

"I want to be honest next time around....I am willing to take a $3000 hit in wasted app fees to show this."
"If this does not impact my future app, I would love to take the year off and work towards something I can really be proud of. Thank you."

Well it sounded like you were seriously thinking about withdrawing...but honestly it seems like you just wanted validation to continue with your exaggerated application.

To be honest, though, it doesn't sound like you exaggerated/lied very much. The "Lab Coordinator" position is definitely a lie, but at least your responsibilities seem to be in line with the title...I would also try and figure out how to complete the other volunteer responsibilities.

I will withdrawal if that is the best course of action, its not like I enjoy feeling guilty. My family is going to be livid with me for the wasted money however.

 

[Alex1234*]

He said he did 3 things in his volunteer position that he absolutely did not do, and he made up a position in his lab that doesn’t exist. That is not simple playing up of an EC.

Ah, well I wasn't sure about the extent of the volunteering activities. If there is no way to complete those activities, I would withdraw..

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I

I will withdrawal if that is the best course of action, its not like I enjoy feeling guilty. My family is going to be livid with me for the wasted money however.

They should be livid with you for lying on your app. Were they the ones who encouraged you to do so?

 

[JeSuisUnDoc]

Boyo, if you’re close to your PI, ask them if you can call yourself that.
For the volunteering, if you’ve helped do those things, i would say it’s fine to take credit as long as you emphasize team work somewhere else. Ask your volunteer coordinator, if they’re as nice mine, they’ll back you up. People exaggerate their app all the time.

Please do it in a way that doesn’t incriminate you or puts them in an awkward position. Something like would you consider me as... or do you think I could say... . You know what I mean.

If you really went crazy with exaggeration, that only you know and can decide.


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[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Before withdrawing serious consider asking your PI and volunteer coordinator if you can do the things that you said you would on your application. This really is an easy solution to a muddy problem you’ve created for yourself. If they say, no way, then you gotta do you.

Yeah you don’t have to tell them why you’re asking. Just ask.

 

[Alex1234*]

Well ultimately I agree with Mya&Me....if you can make up these activities and put in the work to correct your mistake, I would just keep going with the application cycle. Hopefully you've learned from the stress and guilt, it's much easier to just be honest. For one of my recent activities, I slightly miscalculated my hours. So I called my boss and she re-hired me to work those hours.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Agree about not pouring your heart out to your PI and volunteer coordinator. You will then force them to decide whether or not to report you, which will cause them stress and anxiety. They don't want that burden.

Were you the de facto volunteer coordinator in your lab? Did you in fact (if not in name) fulfill a volunteer coordinator role in that you were the senior hand and more junior members sought you out for advice, mentorship and counsel? Did you volunteer or were you asked to orient new lab members? These de facto coordinator duties would justify calling yourself that even if no such official role existed. At least that's my view.

And importantly, would your PI and postdoc back you up as to your role as a de factor coordinator?

 

[cjosexxx]

Agree about not pouring your heart out to your PI and volunteer coordinator. You will then force them to decide whether or not to report you, which will cause them stress and anxiety. They don't want that burden.

Were you the de facto volunteer coordinator in your lab? Did you in fact (if not in name) fulfill a volunteer coordinator role in that you were the senior hand and more junior members sought you out for advice, mentorship and counsel? Did you volunteer or were you asked to orient new lab members? These de facto coordinator duties would justify calling yourself that even if no such official role existed. At least that's my view.

And importantly, would your PI and postdoc back you up as to your role as a de factor coordinator?

My PI is not very present in the lab, but I am close with the graduate students. I think talking to him about it would be an extremely awkward conversation. I was asked a few times by the graduate students to show new members how to do certain tasks but that's it.

 

[cjosexxx]

Just to reaffirm this: since I did not technically get rejected, withdrawing would not hurt my next app, correct?

 

[cjosexxx]

Before withdrawing serious consider asking your PI and volunteer coordinator if you can do the things that you said you would on your application. This really is an easy solution to a muddy problem you’ve created for yourself. If they say, no way, then you gotta do you.

I feel like asking him would hurt our relationship unfortunately. He's very professional (more so than I am clearly)

 

[premedalt]

Just to reaffirm this: since I did not technically get rejected, withdrawing would not hurt my next app, correct?

Not that I am suggesting you do withdraw, but if you do end up doing so, it might be worth your time preparing to answer in secondaries and interviews why you withdrew.

 

[candbgirl]

When did you start to feel guilty? Why did you submit any secondaries without making a decision?

You were in no way a Lab Coordinator. You were not a Lab volunteer coordinator. A few times a grad student asked you to show someone how to do something. It wasn’t a consistent part of your job.

What were the three volunteer activities that you said you did that you didn’t do at all?

You lied four times that you admit to. Your course of action seems pretty clear.

 

[cjosexxx]

When did you start to feel guilty? Why did you submit any secondaries without making a decision?

You were in no way a Lab Coordinator. You were not a Lab volunteer coordinator. A few times a grad student asked you to show someone how to do something. It wasn’t a consistent part of your job.

What were the three volunteer activities that you said you did that you didn’t do at all?

You lied four times that you admit to. Your course of action seems pretty clear.

I felt guilty the whole time. Not that this is an excuse, but my family puts a lot of pressure on me to succeed so I kept on.

 

[cjosexxx]

Well, not necessarily. They may compare the apps and pick up on the changes. Also, some schools limit the number of reapplications you can submit. Since you have submitted you applications, you will be considered a reapplicant to the schools you’ve already applied to even if you have not recieved a decision.

Do you think it would be bad if I simply took out the three sentences?

 

[FreeRadicals]

These aren't exaggerations.... these are blatant lies. Not sure if you should step anywhere near the field of medicine.

 

[premedalt]

These aren't exaggerations.... these are blatant lies. Not sure if you should step anywhere near the field of medicine.

Calm down, OP clearly regrets it and is willing to give up thousands of dollars to rectify what they've done.

 

[DrElliotReid]

Do you think it would be bad if I simply took out the three sentences?

I would do anything you can to remedy the situation this cycle so you do not lose the time and money you spent. If you are able to delete or remove the inaccurate information for this cycle then I think you should definitely do it. Also, if you haven't already, I would ignore FreeRadicals. His/her post is antagonistic and unhelpful.

 

[cjosexxx]

I would do anything you can to remedy the situation this cycle so you do not lose the time and money you spent. If you are able to delete or remove the inaccurate information for this cycle then I think you should definitely do it. Also, if you haven't already, I would ignore FreeRadicals. His/her post is antagonistic and unhelpful.

I can try to email my PI and talk to my volunteer coordinator I guess. Does anyone know when ECs are typically verified? I won’t be in contact with the latter for at least a week.

 

[Med Ed]

Hello,

I exaggerated my role in several of my ECs and now the guilt has become too heavy to handle. I regretted it almost immediately after submitted my app. Pressured by friends, family, and more importantly, myself, I continued on and so far have filled out about 18 secondaries. I know what I did was wrong and I hate myself for it. Anyway, I am now considering withdrawing my application due to the fear of being found out and blacklisted, so my question is, will a withdrawal hurt my chances next cycle? I want to be honest next time around....I am willing to take a $3000 hit in wasted app fees to show this. If I just completely withdraw my primary and secondaries, how would that look? What are the ramifications? I made this account today for obvious reasons but I am definitely not a troll. Thank you all so much.

Best

1/10.

But if serious, withdraw your app and try again next year. Better to lose some time and money now than have this gnawing at your conscience for years to come.

 

[cjosexxx]

1/10.

But if serious, withdraw your app and try again next year. Better to lose some time and money now than have this gnawing at your conscience for years to come.

Im assuming the 1/10 is alluding to my score if I was trolling. I am not. How will reapplying affect my future app?

 

[cjosexxx]

Blatant lies I think is a stroke too harsh. Take for example stating that you were part of a research team that processed 250 patients/data points when you yourself only processed ~50. Is it a lie? To some yes, to others no. You were part of a group that did that. Your specific contribution was only 1/5, but you can jazz it up to 250 by including teamwork. This whole volunteering thing could very well be something like this: "I volunteered at an organization that did W, X, Y, and Z." However, OP may have only done Y. I would say many applicants overstate their involvement with activities by attributing the group efforts to themselves. (Personally, this type of behavior really bothers me irl; funny how some people are so ready to take credit as a team for work only one team member really did but don't actually want to put in the effort to genuinely earn the credit.) However, at the end of the day, everyone is rowing the boat, and I would highly question those who say this type of credit-taking is not rampant among many otherwise BS leadership positions.



Honestly, if it came down to you having to reapply, no. Probably not. Because if you are having to reapply after applying to as many schools as you claim in your original post, then you probably clearly need some general improvement to your app. The removal of three sentences will likely not be noticed and can be chalked up to trying to be more tactful/eloquent and general revisions of descriptions.

As I've stated before though, I believe you should just do your best to fulfill what you have already written about in your app. If it doesn't happen, chalk it up to the ever-changing future. Ockham's razor, my dude. Simplest solution=best solution. You have a bloody year to fix it. If that's not plenty of time, then I don't know what is.

The only weak part of my app was my ECs and hence that was why I pressured myself to do what I did. I hope nobody will notice nonetheless.

 

[cjosexxx]

I hope you fix the problem by setting out to do what you said you would do. That way they can notice your accomplishments. Tough love, but this statement right here is not a good attitude. Fix the problem. Don't hope that they won't notice. Make it so that there is nothing to notice.

I was talking about the changes I would make if I did reapply, not my current app.

 

[FreeRadicals]

Calm down, OP clearly regrets it and is willing to give up thousands of dollars to rectify what they've done.

I'm sorry but thousands of dollars doesn't fix character or morals. I understand OP realizes his/her mistake in this instance, but this could have been more permanent in the case of lying to a patient.

 

[FreeRadicals]

Blatant lies I think is a stroke too harsh. Take for example stating that you were part of a research team that processed 250 patients/data points when you yourself only processed ~50. Is it a lie? To some yes, to others no. You were part of a group that did that. Your specific contribution was only 1/5, but you can jazz it up to 250 by including teamwork. This whole volunteering thing could very well be something like this: "I volunteered at an organization that did W, X, Y, and Z." However, OP may have only done Y. I would say many applicants overstate their involvement with activities by attributing the group efforts to themselves. (Personally, this type of behavior really bothers me irl; funny how some people are so ready to take credit as a team for work only one team member really did but don't actually want to put in the effort to genuinely earn the credit.) However, at the end of the day, everyone is rowing the boat, and I would highly question those who say this type of credit-taking is not rampant among many otherwise BS leadership positions.



Honestly, if it came down to you having to reapply, no. Probably not. Because if you are having to reapply after applying to as many schools as you claim in your original post, then you probably clearly need some general improvement to your app. The removal of three sentences will likely not be noticed and can be chalked up to trying to be more tactful/eloquent and general revisions of descriptions.

As I've stated before though, I believe you should just do your best to fulfill what you have already written about in your app. If it doesn't happen, chalk it up to the ever-changing future. Ockham's razor, my dude. Simplest solution=best solution. You have a bloody year to fix it. If that's not plenty of time, then I don't know what is.

S/He lied (not exaggerated as used in the original post to mitigate liability) about his/her position in a research lab. It's not like s/he listed 5 different blots s/he conducted in a lab and only did 4. S/He straight up lied about the position.

 

[Robin-jay]

Hello,

I exaggerated my role in several of my ECs and now the guilt has become too heavy to handle. I regretted it almost immediately after submitted my app. Pressured by friends, family, and more importantly, myself, I continued on and so far have filled out about 18 secondaries. I know what I did was wrong and I hate myself for it. Anyway, I am now considering withdrawing my application due to the fear of being found out and blacklisted, so my question is, will a withdrawal hurt my chances next cycle? I want to be honest next time around....I am willing to take a $3000 hit in wasted app fees to show this. If I just completely withdraw my primary and secondaries, how would that look? What are the ramifications? I made this account today for obvious reasons but I am definitely not a troll. Thank you all so much.

Best

So what do you plan on doing?

Withdrawing your app so that they can compare your first application and your new application and wonder why you lied?

Terrible risk/benefit thing to do.

But you shouldn't have put yourself in such a lose/lose situation.

Morally/ethically - withdraw your application

Best chance at being accepted to medical school - most likely not withdraw your application

 

[Robin-jay]

I'm sorry but thousands of dollars doesn't fix character or morals. I understand OP realizes his/her mistake in this instance, but this could have been more permanent in the case of lying to a patient.

S/He lied (not exaggerated as used in the original post to mitigate liability) about his/her position in a research lab. It's not like s/he listed 5 different blots s/he conducted in a lab and only did 4. S/He straight up lied about the position.

To be honest, we would have to read his application to know the extent of his lying.

But don't to be too harsh on this fellow. He lied and feels bad about it. I know an incredible amount of medical school students that lied and didn't care one iota.

I will say its a bit infuriating for the OP to call himself a research lab coordinator. I have a masters degree in chemistry, and usually lab coordinator means something way higher than an undergraduate could obtain.

Because of this, medical schools may suspect its weird that an undergraduate student had the role of "lab coordinator".

 

[Robin-jay]

Truth... But it also depends on the lab, OP's experience in it, and what "coordinator" means in the lab.

I don't know an undergraduate student could ever obtain the position "lab coordinator", the more I think about, the less plausible it sounds. The only way I can see any position like this being realistic is if the lab had no graduate students. Not sure I would really think its suspicious or not if I saw the application. I guess spinning it to UG lab coordinate would be more ideal.

If I was interviewing, I would probably ask what the roles of his lab coordinator position were.

Part of me feels for the OP, but part of me is ticked off because that's a position that is well earned and he lied about having it....

 

[puahate]

Ethically, yeah withdraw.

If I was in your shoes (which I would not be), I would just go ahead and send the app and hope they dont look too much into it. You sort of f****** yourself because they might compare your old app to your new one now. I would ride the course and see what happens. If you get an II just try to downplay it.

 

[candbgirl]

Truth... But it also depends on the lab, OP's experience in it, and what "coordinator" means in the lab. Working in the same lab from Freshman > Senior year could mean a promotion in title. Low-stakes, humanities, or not heavily funded labs may also be a touch more generous with positions and titles. Hence why it may be worth pitching it as a more UG Lab Coordinator position, as you helped coordinate other UGs in the lab. Kind of like a Team Leader in retail.



Also truth.

He wasn’t the team leader.on a few occasions some grad students asked him to show someone how to do something . OP do you have a letter from your PI? We know it won’t say you were the lab coordinator so will that be an issue?

So basically your ECs were subpar so you “exaggerated” to make them look better?